Breadcrumb menu and map icon dropping below the banner: sweep
← Older revision
Revision as of 06:22, 7 November 2015
Line 1,849:
Line 1,849:
::::: Firstly the autocrop idea is intended to both make your lives easier and improve mobile rendering. It's a work in progress as we learn, so please do feedback ideas and problems you are running into via myself or our community liason [[User:Melamrawy (WMF)]]. We can enforce any sort of ratio you want but as I outlined in [[Wikivoyage:Travellers'_pub#Should_Wikivoyage_not_crop_banners.3F|Pub conversation]] I'm still not sure what is most optimal. The only constraint is the image on desktop but must be the same as the one on mobile. To clarify the cropping is down by css - .wpb-topbanner currently has a max-height of 300px (not a fixed height). I think you can safely add .wpb-topbanner { max-height: 240px; } in MediaWiki:Common.css for desktop if the appropriate height should be 240px without damaging the mobile experience. We can fine tune this in the extension itself if you find this is working better for the majority of articles. [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 21:29, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
::::: Firstly the autocrop idea is intended to both make your lives easier and improve mobile rendering. It's a work in progress as we learn, so please do feedback ideas and problems you are running into via myself or our community liason [[User:Melamrawy (WMF)]]. We can enforce any sort of ratio you want but as I outlined in [[Wikivoyage:Travellers'_pub#Should_Wikivoyage_not_crop_banners.3F|Pub conversation]] I'm still not sure what is most optimal. The only constraint is the image on desktop but must be the same as the one on mobile. To clarify the cropping is down by css - .wpb-topbanner currently has a max-height of 300px (not a fixed height). I think you can safely add .wpb-topbanner { max-height: 240px; } in MediaWiki:Common.css for desktop if the appropriate height should be 240px without damaging the mobile experience. We can fine tune this in the extension itself if you find this is working better for the majority of articles. [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 21:29, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
:::::: To be honest, I think that's the wrong solution. Setting a max of 240px would result in a banner that was too short if the full recommended width of 1800px is shown. I think the consensus of editors, though, is to maintain strictly 7:1 banners, at least for typical desktop-size resolutions. Perhaps what we could do is set a ''minimum'' height, so that if the page width shrinks below, say, 700px, the height stays fixed at 100px. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <small><sup>([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]])</sup></small> 01:17, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
:::::: To be honest, I think that's the wrong solution. Setting a max of 240px would result in a banner that was too short if the full recommended width of 1800px is shown. I think the consensus of editors, though, is to maintain strictly 7:1 banners, at least for typical desktop-size resolutions. Perhaps what we could do is set a ''minimum'' height, so that if the page width shrinks below, say, 700px, the height stays fixed at 100px. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <small><sup>([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]])</sup></small> 01:17, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
+
+
== Breadcrumb menu and map icon dropping below the banner ==
+
{{swept}}
+
As the headline says, when I open an article I see the banner on the top of it and the breadcrumb menu and icon below it (before the text). I'm using Safari 8.0.8 (on a Mac) and yesterday the articles looked completely normal. In Firefox the articles look normal. Is it again someone playing around with the banner template? [[User:Ypsilon|ϒpsilon]] ([[User talk:Ypsilon|talk]]) 04:24, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
: This looks like a change that was made to the banner extension - [https://git.wikimedia.org/commitdiff/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FWikidataPageBanner/4dfbe50697324a6069bad80b905384c1392b738b Do not add banner inside #bodyContent]. [[User:Jdlrobson]] can probably confirm. For what it's worth, the change seems fine to me - as far as I'm aware, on most web sites breadcrumbs are placed under the top banner. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] • ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) • 04:34, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
::Since when has the page banner image been above the location breadcrumbs? --[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 05:42, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
::: Not sure which is better, being different from what you are used to is always firstly a negative reaction. I guess we should keep it a week or so and see how we feel then. --[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 06:42, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
::::I think I prefer the new arrangement. It makes the banner/title more visible. I also think that we should try having breadcrumb aligned to the right. [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 11:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
:Hey! those breadcrumbs appear in contentSub which appears under the first headings on all wikis [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web for example mediawiki] so this is a side effect of making the banner override the heading rather than hack itself to look like a heading.
+
+
:In code it's called subTitle so code wise it makes sense for the ''sub''title to appear ''below'' the title. Design wise for this use case maybe not.. I'm not sure.
+
+
:I sadly didn't pick this up before to discuss as none of the examples on http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/WikidataPageBanner_example_3 have breadcrumbs. I'll rectify that for you for future.
+
+
:What's generating the tagline? Am I right in guessing it's [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GeoCrumbs Extension:GeoCrumbs]? If so and you decide on a different placement we will have to add support to that extension. [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]])
+
::This change is awful. From a navigational standpoint, it made total sense before, zooming in from the global level at the top and going down to the destination in question and then navigation within that destination's article
+
:::''External navigation down to this destination > '''This destination''' > Internal navigation within this destination > Content within this destination''
+
::Now it's all out of order:
+
:::'''''This destination''' > Internal navigation within this destination > External navigation down to this destination > Content within this destination''
+
::We could still discuss changing it later if there is really a reason for it that everyone can get behind, but this should be reverted immediately pending discussion of and consensus for the change, because this is simply not the way things are supposed to work around here. Especially for sitewide changes such as this, it's supposed to be proposal, then discussion, then consensus, then implementation of the change. Not change implemented out of the blue, adjustment period to see if we like it, possible discussion, and then "oops there's not unanimous consensus to change it back, guess we'll keep it". Whoever did this, please change it back immediately, the sooner the better. [[User:Texugo|Texugo]] ([[User talk:Texugo|talk]]) 17:32, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
::: As [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] notes, the change was a result of the fact that we were previously mis-using banners to move the article title within the article body content, so there is a strong argument to be made that it's unreasonable to demand an immediate revert of a global fix that exposed a bug in our implementation. That said, if there is a strong desire to move the breadcrumbs back above the banner, as Jdlrobson suggests the geocrumbs extension can be modified to allow positioning of the breadcrumbs outside of the article content, which would match your suggestion of moving global navigation outside of article content. My preference would be to leave things as they are now, however, for reasons stated above. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] • ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) • 17:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
:::: If you want I can make some minor js/css changes which will correct it for 99% of users. Just let me know and I'll do it - this is better than a revert (but will still show them under the heading for non-js users). I've setup a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113642 bug] to make sure we get this fixed so you at least have the option to revert back to the old bug. [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 18:19, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
:::::I don't care if it's not ''technically'' reverted back, but if it's possible to revert the appearance back, as [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] suggests, that would keep us much more in line with our standard procedure for approving sitewide visual changes, so I don't think there is any question that that is what should be done at this point. [[User:Texugo|Texugo]] ([[User talk:Texugo|talk]]) 18:28, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
:::::: My only concern with a JS/CSS solution (as opposed to the suggested fix in the phabricator ticket) is that we ensure that it isn't done in a way that will penalize us with search engines. Mucking about with the <nowiki><h1></nowiki> tag can be dicey where SEO is concerned, and we've already been whacked a few times recently by Google due to page banner changes. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] • ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) • 18:35, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
You should be able to put the following in MediaWiki:Common.js:
+
<code>
+
$( '#contentSub' ).insertBefore( '.ext-wpb-pagebanner' ).addClass( 'visible' );
+
</code>
+
and in MediaWiki:Common.css
+
<code>
+
#contentSub { display: none; }
+
#contentSub.visible { display: block; }
+
</code>
+
I've never heard of such a change impacting SEO. Given the amount of SEO concerns I'm hearing on this page, it might be worth asking the Foundation's discovery team to investigate that and identify ways to improve Wikivoyage's page rankings. It's my belief that by better features and slicker designs more people will link to Wikivoyage and you will drive up your search results more than any tiny penalties due to things such as positioning. [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 19:01, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
: The above change should be fine since we're not touching the <nowiki><h1></nowiki> tag - [[Wikivoyage talk:Search Expedition#Pagebanner extension problem|past banner changes]] involving the page title and top heading have caused articles to drop significantly in Google rankings. The larger discussion about SEO would be valuable, but should take place at [[Wikivoyage talk:Search Expedition]] to avoid confusing this thread. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] • ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) • 19:12, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
:: I've made the tweaks and it should be back to the way it was. Let me know what the preferred layout should be. Please subscribe and poke the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113642 ticket] for a more long term solution. [[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 21:18, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
::: Now it is worse. The map icon has not moved with the breadcrumbs as is squashed between the banner and the text. Please experiment with site wide changes outside of main-space in future. --[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 06:54, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
+
::::And in addition, the map icon's upper rim is covered by the banner and while the breadcrumb has moved back up, its text (and unless something's suddenly wrong with my eyes, the article name, UNESCO icon and featured article) has become remarkably larger... [[User:Ypsilon|ϒpsilon]] ([[User talk:Ypsilon|talk]]) 13:43, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
+
::::: So the map icon is no longer overlapping the banner but if there is an image at the top of the article they will overlap. --[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 13:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
=== First impressions ===
+
Positive: I like the banner image at the top of the page, looks professional and clean; the map icon below the banner image is somehow more obvious, being discoverable to new users is important.
+
+
Negative: As stated above, page content listed before breadcrumb hierarchy does not feel right; and the big negative - when you want to go to the country page from a city article and move you mouse too slowly down from the top of the page the drop down sub-section titles come down over the breadcrumb line making it difficult to see and select.
+
+
--[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 19:19, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
On this subject if we made it possible to add external links to banners is there any reason the map can't be a banner icon?
+
e.g. http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/WikidataPageBanner_example_3
+
If this is desired does someone want to open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikidata-page-banner/ phabricator ticket?]
+
[[User:Jdlrobson|Jdlrobson]] ([[User talk:Jdlrobson|talk]]) 21:23, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
:IIRC, we did test adding the map parameter to the banner icons at one point, but only on a few articles and it was eventually killed off, I think due to the need to move all geo coords into the banner template. Wouldn't be opposed to revisiting moving the icon. [[User:JamesA|<font color="#046380">James '''A'''</font>]] ▪ [[User talk:JamesA|talk]] 10:30, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
+
+
::I use Firefox and I'm getting the map icon on top of the article text at the right hand end of the first line. Also, when editing and doing a preview, an old-style table of contents appears (in addition to the usual menu bar on the banner), meaning it is far from a true preview of layout. Is there a fix for these two issues? [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 08:29, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
+
::: Moving the geo coords into the banner could maybe done with a bot. Or maybe we need to add an additional space after the geo icon so that it does not overlap text or images at the top of articles. --[[User:Traveler100|Traveler100]] ([[User talk:Traveler100|talk]]) 05:32, 2 October 2015 (UTC)