Join our live debate on the question of selection in British schools as Theresa May’s plan to expand grammar schools comes under fire
2.00pm BST
We’re out of time - thanks to all who took part. We’ll be back for another debate at midday next Thursday.
1.58pm BST
The intention of Grammar Schools to provide the best education for talented children irrespective of their social background remains wholly laudable. We should encourage such schools nationwide thereby eradicating the tendency of to form expensive areas around the remaining Grammars. By trying to kill off or restrict Grammar Schools, politicians have ensured the worst possible outcome by pricing out the very people the Grammar Schools were designed to help.
No nation can thrive if it aims for a standard education since the best will undershoot their potential. The nation will be condemned to mediocrity.
1.55pm BST
Interesting view from Diana in Belfast (formerly the Midlands); contrasting her own experience of grammar school with her sons’ education.
I went to local grammar school, where pupils were streamed on basis of 11+ scores (age adjusted). The A stream had high concentration of children from single child families. For the catchment area, an extremely high proportion of children had parents with middle class, professional backgrounds. The B to E classes were still more middle class than the children who had failed. The school budget per child was higher and there were parental contributions to school fund which improved resources.
This was in the 70s and exam results were good at the grammar - but 60 out of 70 of council estate primary classmate failed and the secondary modern had very poor results (low grade CSEs and not many of those per pupil) as expectation was that they would find work in shipyard, tobacco factories and textile mills and so it wasn’t necessary to spend much money on their education.
1.49pm BST
Let's assume that 11+ selection is great and that grammar schools do fuel social mobility.
Does anyone have confidence that, after the SATs fiasco and GCSE/A-level reform, that the methodology and marking of any such 11+ exam will be reliable or appropriate? The Department of Education, OFQUAL and private contractors' performance with respect to exams has been appalling. They also seem to be totally unaccountable.
1.44pm BST
Huw Swanborough, in Manchester, writes as someone who attended grammar school from 2000-2007.
I’m grammar school educated, but I see no reason to reintroduce them or make them more widespread. Whilst there are obviously stories of boys/girls made good by the grammar school system, it should be telling that these are always individual anecdotes.
We shouldn’t make policy based on individual stories but on overall trends. There is no overall trend to say that grammar schools are better for the country’s education, let alone social mobility. I knew plenty of millennials who have not ‘succeeded’ from grammar school, and the largely academic curriculum was also not helpful in equipping them with the knowledge and tools for working in trades. Whilst I did Latin, ancient greek, combined cadet force etc. we had minimal teaching in areas of design and IT, and nothing at all in areas like electronics, home economics or hands-on workshop skills.
1.37pm BST
Comment via our form from Colin Watson, a parent in Ramsgate, Kent, an area of England that still has selection in secondary education.
We live in an area with a grammar school. My children did not go to the grammar school as we moved here at short notice after the cut-off for the entry exam. My younger son, however, moved to the grammar school for sixth form as his school did not offer the subjects he wanted to study.
This is the problem of selective education - it is not about the re-introduction of grammar schools, it is about the re-introduction of second-class, second-rate secondary modern education and the deprivation of finance from those schools.
1.28pm BST
According to Nicholas Barton, perhaps we should be concerning ourselves more about the language around grammar schools, rather than the schools themselves.
Unfortunately, this issue has become all tangled up with the issue of being labeled a "success" or a "failure". One type of school is no better or worse than another type if school. Actually what determines the effectiveness of a school is the quality of the teaching staff.
No child is the same as another, each have their own unique set of abilities. Some are more artistic, some are more practical, some are more sporty and some are more academic. Unfortunately, we live in a society where our "worth" is determined by what we do for a living, which is frequently related to how much we earn. University education is associated with jobs that provide a higher salary and this is perceived as more desirable.
As grammar schools appear to be more effective at training kids to achieve the qualifications to gain access to university this means that gaining entry is seen as a success.
The issue is actually not that kids who don't gain access are a failure, but that we don't value or haven't invested in those professions that are more technical in nature and therefore the perception is that they are a failure.
The entry test to grammar schools shouldn't be "success" or "failure", but should be a more neutral "academic" or "technical". But as long as we continue to think plumbers are worth less than doctors that is a forlorn hope.
1.20pm BST
A very happy mother, of a daughter at a grammar school in Bexleyheath, says selective schools help inspire children.
1.18pm BST
A view from David Crawford, a reader in Germany who attended school in the 1960s.
Due to domestic problems - resentful Stepfather- my extended family rescued me. I was unable to cope with primary school discipline. I had no chance with the 11+. but my aunt taught me how to read. So despite everything I was literate, which crucial.
I landed at local secondary modern. It was a poor area - aspiration was seen as eccentric. You were second-class anyway.
1.04pm BST
Apologies for forgetting about our friends north of the border.
They were scrapped in the early 1960s in Scotland - those that remained anyway.
They're pretty much out of living memory in Scotland. They're not on anyone's radar. They're not missed and not wanted. They're not coming back. All kids should have excellent schools - and all schools should cater effectively for the whole range of abilities. That's the Scottish model; we think the obsession of some English with segregating kids into different schools by ability is just weird.
1.00pm BST
View from a reader in Rotherham:
I went to a grammar school and had, what I would describe as a a pretty mediocre education. However, surely the point is that all children should have access to the best education, on their doorstep which offers a curriculum that allows each child to fulfil their potential whatever interests or talents they have. When we had selection only about 10% of working class children achieved 5 O levels, after the introduction of the comprehensive school system system that rose to just less than 50%.
That speaks for itself. However, I do suspect the government has another agenda: have a few grammar school staffed by qualified and reasonably well paid staff and the remaining schools will be staffed by the mainly unqualified, allowing the sponsors of academy chains to divert funding to their own already inflated salaries.
12.52pm BST
Enobarbus from Cambridge has taught in various schools and shares their view on why reintroducing grammar schools would be disastrous.
12.50pm BST
A view from a reader in Lincolnshire, an area of the country that still has selective secondary education.
There are some comprehensives, especially in the big city (Lincoln). My three kids all passed their 11+ but if they hadn’t, they would have been fine; the local secondary modern is an excellent school. In this county though, selection is more by location.
Where catchment areas are up to 20 miles in diameter, where you live dictates which school you go to. The local authority will not provide free transport for schools outside your immediate area, so poorer families often have no choice of school. It is a nightmare if you have to get one child to the grammar school 15 miles west of where you live and another one 8 miles to the east - and if you still have one at the nearest primary 3 miles to the south.
12.40pm BST
A commenter makes a point often made by supporters of grammar schools - that they are a means of offering working class children a “way out” of poverty.
In my final year of primary school in inner London. There were kids in my class who were functionally illiterate, got into fights more-or-less every other day, had no other aspirations other than becoming a drug-dealing gang member and throughout their secondary schools, spent their time bullying and attacking anyone with any aspirations to be a doctor, lawyer or generally get good grades in exams as a 'neek'.
Fortunately I was able to get into a grammar school out in Surrey where this wasn't the case.
12.34pm BST
Not scrapped, but made private- fee paying. Same for faith schools. Then the wealthy can still have their precious 'choice'.
Taxpayer funded schools need to have transparent, non selective admissions criteria; drawn from the local area; be secular and comprehensive in nature, with no exceptions; and no school should be allowed to exclude a child on the grounds of their special needs.
12.22pm BST
Alice believes that grammar schools lead to a more divided society, and in particular fail to consider those who struggle learning new skills and information.
12.14pm BST
Are grammar schools popular with voters? A YouGov poll found two thirds of voters would send their kids to grammar school if there was one nearby (and if they passed); but their popularity varies dramatically across the country.
Related: How May put grammar schools back at the heart of Conservative thinking
12.07pm BST
12.04pm BST
Comments are now open - and if you’re lacking a commenting account, you can contribute via a form (anonymously or otherwise).
11.47am BST
Despite having one of two children at a grammar school, Beth from West Yorkshire still opposes them.
11.30am BST
While we’re waiting for the debate to start, here are a few views on the subject via Twitter.
Jeremy Corbyn easy win at #PMQs Theresa May has made a serious misjudgement on grammar schools. Her MPs know it.
I've written on @ConHome with a message to Conservative MPs on grammar schools https://t.co/UYyo89HFs2
Opening new grammar schools was the wrong policy before. It's the wrong policy now. The Govt should drop their plans pic.twitter.com/73Km8Lgzlk
Posting this again: grammar schools do not, I repeat, *DO NOT* help working class kids pic.twitter.com/OYNpGImgxD
11.11am BST
Theresa May’s plan to extend grammar school provision have been met with widespread opposition, with Jeremy Corbyn challenging the prime minister on the topic at Prime Minister’s Questions on Wednesday.
Related: Corbyn lambasts May on grammar schools in boisterous PMQs
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