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Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.07.09

2013-07-12

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| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2013.07.02|Prev 2013.07.02]]

| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2013.07.16|Next 2013.07.16]]

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== List of Speakers ==

{|

|Andrew Linden

|Annasue Barzane

|Baker Linden

|-

|Duckie Dickins

|Kallista Destiny

|katie Canucci

|-

|Kelly Linden

|Kitto Flora

|Latif Khalifa

|-

|Levio Serenity

|Lucia Nightfire

|machka Resident

|-

|MartinRJ Resident

|Mona Eberhardt

|Motor Loon

|-

|Nalates Urriah

|Petr Topaz

|Qie Niangao

|-

|Rex Cronon

|Simon Linden

|Sovereign Engineer

|-

|Talarus Luan

|Whirly Fizzle

|Yuzuru Jewell

|-

|}

== Transcript ==

[19:00] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Hello Kelly!</nowiki>

[19:00] Kelly Linden<nowiki>: hello</nowiki>

[19:00] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: hello everybody</nowiki>

[19:01] machka Resident<nowiki>: hi all</nowiki>

[19:01] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Hi all</nowiki>

[19:01] Levio Serenity<nowiki>: kelly shaved this week !</nowiki>

[19:01] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Hey Baker!</nowiki>

[19:01] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: and blinged up too.</nowiki>

[19:01] Kelly Linden<nowiki>: :( re-bake fixed the error.</nowiki>

[19:01] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Hello Simon.</nowiki>

[19:01] Baker Linden<nowiki>: Hello everyone</nowiki>

[19:01] machka Resident<nowiki>: hi Simon</nowiki>

[19:02] Baker Linden<nowiki>: brb</nowiki>

[19:02] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Hello everyone</nowiki>

[19:02] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Ey guys</nowiki>

[19:02] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: Hello Simon</nowiki>

[19:02] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: hello kelly, simon, baker</nowiki>

[19:02] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: hi all, again</nowiki>

[19:02] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[19:02] machka Resident<nowiki>: hi katie</nowiki>

[19:03] katie Canucci<nowiki>: hi machka</nowiki>

[19:03] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I'm not sure if Andrew will make it today, but I can get started with the release news</nowiki>

[19:03] katie Canucci<nowiki>: hi everyone</nowiki>

[19:03] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[19:03] Simon Linden<nowiki>: The forum post for this week is here: </nowiki>http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-07-08/td-p/2074931

[19:03] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Hi Andrew.</nowiki>

[19:03] machka Resident<nowiki>: and there he is lol</nowiki>

[19:03] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Hi Andrew</nowiki>

[19:03] machka Resident<nowiki>: hi andrew</nowiki>

[19:03] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: hello</nowiki>

[19:03] MartinRJ Resident<nowiki>: hello</nowiki>

[19:03] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: Hi Andrew</nowiki>

[19:03] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: hi andrew. u made it:)</nowiki>

[19:03] Simon Linden<nowiki>: We updated the main server code this morning with the version that's been in the RC channels</nowiki>

[19:05] machka Resident<nowiki>: yes and what does that mean exactly?</nowiki>

[19:05] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: yes please explain</nowiki>

[19:05] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: it means there might be a bad storm rising;)</nowiki>

[19:05] machka Resident<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[19:05] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Hey Nal. Hello Yuzuru.</nowiki>

[19:05] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: means bring popcorn for tomorrow</nowiki>

[19:05] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: figures</nowiki>

[19:05] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: It means we're doomed DOOMED!</nowiki>

[19:05] Nalates Urriah<nowiki>: Hi all</nowiki>

[19:05] machka Resident<nowiki>: ok should this be on voice my first time herellol</nowiki>

[19:06] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: hi</nowiki>

[19:06] Simon Linden<nowiki>: well, we have different server versions running on the grid at once. About 70% of the grid is the "main" code, and the other 30% can be divided up into three possible "channels"</nowiki>

[19:06] Yuzuru Jewell<nowiki>: Hello, Mina and Nalates.</nowiki>

[19:06] Yuzuru Jewell<nowiki>: Hello, Inara.</nowiki>

[19:06] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: OK</nowiki>

[19:06] Yuzuru Jewell<nowiki>: Is the meeting started?</nowiki>

[19:06] Simon Linden<nowiki>: last week those channels were all the same code ... the next bug fix update</nowiki>

[19:06] Simon Linden<nowiki>: yes</nowiki>

[19:06] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: machka, this meeting is done through text chat</nowiki>

[19:06] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: (Machka, luckily, not voice.)</nowiki>

[19:06] machka Resident<nowiki>: lol</nowiki>

[19:06] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Yeah, there has alread been baw about SSA(ne Baking) that it's alread out there, idiots.</nowiki>

[19:07] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: every case that I've investigated has proven negative.</nowiki>

[19:07] Simon Linden<nowiki>: so we updated the main 70% with that next version, so as of now the whole grid is the same server version</nowiki>

[19:07] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Tomorrow will be 'interesting'</nowiki>

[19:07] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Tomorrow those 3 "channels" will each get different versions</nowiki>

[19:07] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Simon, how much of the grid is on LeTigre?</nowiki>

[19:07] Latif Khalifa<nowiki>: 10%</nowiki>

[19:08] Simon Linden<nowiki>: One of which is the server-side appearance code, when the world will come to an end as we know it</nowiki>

[19:08] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: Ack! I'm being called into an important meeting. I'm going to have to bail.</nowiki>

[19:08] Latif Khalifa<nowiki>: hehe</nowiki>

[19:08] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Less I think, I thought magnum was the largest of the RC</nowiki>

[19:08] Andrew Linden<nowiki>: Sorry. Carry on without me.</nowiki>

[19:08] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: tc</nowiki>

[19:08] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Aww</nowiki>

[19:08] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Thanks Andrew for trying</nowiki>

[19:08] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: Bye Andrew, thanks for coming.</nowiki>

[19:08] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: OK andrew</nowiki>

[19:08] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: have fun</nowiki>

[19:08] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: wanted to ask about the interest list fix progress.</nowiki>

[19:08] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: *snickers*</nowiki>

[19:08] Latif Khalifa<nowiki>: Well supposedly main in 70% plus 3 * 10% for the RC channels</nowiki>

[19:08] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: there goes my questions about the anti griefing steps</nowiki>

[19:09] Simon Linden<nowiki>: So tomorrow will be interesting, as Kallista said</nowiki>

[19:09] machka Resident<nowiki>: ha lucy</nowiki>

[19:09] Latif Khalifa<nowiki>: D-Day</nowiki>

[19:09] machka Resident<nowiki>: that is why im here</nowiki>

[19:09] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: 'important' meetings are never fun.</nowiki>

[19:09] machka Resident<nowiki>: what about the griefers yes</nowiki>

[19:09] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: this meeting should have been held tomorrow:)</nowiki>

[19:10] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: It will be, on Thursday, in the Beta Grid.</nowiki>

[19:10] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: tomorrow is a good day for support to take their cactions</nowiki>

[19:10] machka Resident<nowiki>: so?</nowiki>

[19:10] Simon Linden<nowiki>: well ... for the short term, the update today has a fix for one of the most popular ways to crash regions, so hopefully that will help a bit</nowiki>

[19:10] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: *vacations</nowiki>

[19:10] machka Resident<nowiki>: ok it might i hope so</nowiki>

[19:10] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Yeah, I SECed one of those last week</nowiki>

[19:11] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: Re: BlueSteel's new release... any hope of some more info about how XP will work?</nowiki>

[19:11] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: I think "most popular" is up for debate Simon, heh</nowiki>

[19:11] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Had some griefer wannabees roll through and repeatedly crashed one of our regions. Had to eat him. >.></nowiki>

[19:11] Simon Linden<nowiki>: long term, we're going to keep working on the griefing issue with various steps like Baker's group ban work</nowiki>

[19:11] machka Resident<nowiki>: why not limit the avatar making</nowiki>

[19:11] machka Resident<nowiki>: i mean limit the accounts</nowiki>

[19:11] Simon Linden<nowiki>: as most of you know, it's a tough balancing act between being totally open so new folks can get to your events, and letting in the trouble-makers</nowiki>

[19:12] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Roll on the Group ban...</nowiki>

[19:12] machka Resident<nowiki>: it used to be 5 acounts not more</nowiki>

[19:12] machka Resident<nowiki>: now they can make like 100</nowiki>

[19:12] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: yes this must stop</nowiki>

[19:12] machka Resident<nowiki>: we are griefed so bad we must move</nowiki>

[19:12] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Well, fix the crash modes for sure.</nowiki>

[19:12] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Machka, I think this could be handled to an extent if LL decided to implement master accounts (SVC-6212).</nowiki>

[19:12] machka Resident<nowiki>: how is it that people can make a new account every day?</nowiki>

[19:12] Levio Serenity<nowiki>: not lilke they cant just get more free email addys anyways</nowiki>

[19:12] katie Canucci<nowiki>: we cant relax o sl</nowiki>

[19:12] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: They can make new accounts by the hundreds</nowiki>

[19:13] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: it so easy for somebody to become a griefer. just a few thousand $L u can buy sim crasher and there are even sim crasher groups u can join...</nowiki>

[19:13] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: SVC-6212 has great potential if they can address teh payment issues</nowiki>

[19:13] machka Resident<nowiki>: yep</nowiki>

[19:13] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: thought u could block adresses? i guess the griefers get by you in some way</nowiki>

[19:13] machka Resident<nowiki>: i just think LL should make a priority of it</nowiki>

[19:13] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: address blocks are useless.</nowiki>

[19:13] machka Resident<nowiki>: many of us suffer</nowiki>

[19:13] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I will pass along your requests about limiting accounts but be aware that SL has been very open from the start, and it is very, very difficult to restrict that effectively without hurting others</nowiki>

[19:13] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: yes i agree</nowiki>

[19:14] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: IP bans aren't a solution, Anna. Anyone can change their IP, and even changing the router's MAC address is easy.</nowiki>

[19:14] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: Simon may i drop a notecard on, for u to read later and pass on?</nowiki>

[19:14] machka Resident<nowiki>: yes i understand but make note: many of us pay a lot to be here, have shops live venues etc</nowiki>

[19:14] Simon Linden<nowiki>: blocking addresses is not as effective as we'd all like</nowiki>

[19:14] Simon Linden<nowiki>: sure Anna</nowiki>

[19:14] machka Resident<nowiki>: i had to cancell all shows again</nowiki>

[19:14] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: Ty</nowiki>

[19:14] machka Resident<nowiki>: SL should be fun right?</nowiki>

[19:14] machka Resident<nowiki>: now its a stressfull place to be</nowiki>

[19:15] katie Canucci<nowiki>: yes it should machka</nowiki>

[19:15] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Simon, many of us rent regions and we don't want griefers, trolls and cyberbullies spoiling our fun. And, by the way, the feeds are a free-for-all for sockpuppets and bullying.</nowiki>

[19:15] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: I just realized theres almost 30 people here I should have known, heh</nowiki>

[19:15] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I can also tell you that the problems are known and taken very seriously by the product folks and us at Linden. We know it's a painful issue</nowiki>

[19:15] Motor Loon<nowiki>: machka: you're asking for a fix for something there's no acceptable fix for °͜° I know, we've all done it in the last 10 years at some point...</nowiki>

[19:15] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Sometimes the people having fun are the Griefers :-(</nowiki>

[19:15] Simon Linden<nowiki>: If it was easy to fix, we would</nowiki>

[19:15] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Ugh the feeds are really bad. best to just stay off those heh</nowiki>

[19:15] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Exactly how do forum & feed trolls & griefers contribute to the virtual economy?</nowiki>

[19:15] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: Well it is about time that there was a fix</nowiki>

[19:16] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Not to mention they give SL the *very* bad name it has now.</nowiki>

[19:16] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: what feeds?</nowiki>

[19:16] machka Resident<nowiki>: good question Mona</nowiki>

[19:16] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: my.secondlife.com, Rex.</nowiki>

[19:16] machka Resident<nowiki>: yes</nowiki>

[19:16] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Mona Sl does not have a bad name...</nowiki>

[19:16] Petr Topaz<nowiki>: How about having a set up fee $10 and refunding it after 30 days</nowiki>

[19:16] Petr Topaz<nowiki>: In lindens</nowiki>

[19:16] machka Resident<nowiki>: no but many are leaving here because of the griefer issue</nowiki>

[19:17] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: And the trolling.</nowiki>

[19:17] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Lots of people don't have a payment method.</nowiki>

[19:17] machka Resident<nowiki>: many close down venues and fashion shows</nowiki>

[19:17] Levio Serenity<nowiki>: how about just a setup fee of $10 and give them $10 of lindens</nowiki>

[19:17] Baker Linden<nowiki>: For my update: I'm making really good progress on group bans. I'm doing a bit of a refactoring because I changed the way the backend works slightly. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll be finishing up the backend code.</nowiki>

[19:17] Simon Linden<nowiki>: as for the forums and feeds ... we try to focus on the server software at this meeting, since that's where we Lindens work. A lot of the griefing issues are with parts of SL outside of that, and we can't do much other than pass along your message</nowiki>

[19:17] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: at least look in to stopping NYM and Admiral,and all their alts, Robert and i are at our wits end</nowiki>

[19:18] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Yay Baker! <3</nowiki>

[19:18] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Oh, I dunno.. every time SL gets a story on slashdot, the response in the comments is generally negative.. nerd crowd, sure, but it's a demographic that sees SL in generally a bad light.</nowiki>

[19:18] Annasue Barzane<nowiki>: sHOUTS GET GRIEFERS OUT</nowiki>

[19:18] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: How long till theres a test viewer Baker? :P</nowiki>

[19:18] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Anna, there's no need to shout here.</nowiki>

[19:18] Motor Loon<nowiki>: Sounds good Baker, I'm looking forward to putting the system to work °͜°</nowiki>

[19:18] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Or at leaste sample code to interface...</nowiki>

[19:18] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Oh yeah, me too</nowiki>

[19:18] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: How about passing along that Governance needs to start holding office hours, simon. :)</nowiki>

[19:19] Nalates Urriah<nowiki>: Simon and annoying problem is that when it comes to the web side of SL there is no one to talk to. That is an old and ongoing user complaint.</nowiki>

[19:19] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: Governance is a shadow force, lol idt they'd like any kind of light esp if its lime</nowiki>

[19:19] Motor Loon<nowiki>: and btw, kudos and super thank'ies for the recent scripting obj return features</nowiki>

[19:19] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Nal is right.</nowiki>

[19:19] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Does governance even exist as a team anymore, or is it just a handful of interns or outsourced?</nowiki>

[19:19] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Can you imagine the drama at a governance usergroup? lol</nowiki>

[19:20] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: Good, re: group bans, but... what if there were a way to invite / eject group members by script? (reminded by the nice new scripted object return functions)</nowiki>

[19:20] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: whirly..the good thing is that we don't need to be there. :)</nowiki>

[19:20] Motor Loon<nowiki>: lol a gov. team usergroup would be a screaming whining mess, and you all know it °͜°</nowiki>

[19:20] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: theres drama between governance and other depts it would utter chaos with general population</nowiki>

[19:20] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: I used to go to the Governance user group meetings.. sometimes they were bad, but not always.</nowiki>

[19:20] Simon Linden<nowiki>: well, like I said, I can't do anything other than pass along things outside tech issues</nowiki>

[19:20] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: i don't think 4 sims would be enough to hold a gov. team meeting;)</nowiki>

[19:20] Simon Linden<nowiki>: speaking of, the project viewer here : </nowiki>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers

[19:21] Simon Linden<nowiki>: ... has the right-click-on-a-particle code so you can mute the owner's objects</nowiki>

[19:21] Nalates Urriah<nowiki>: Yay! Particle select</nowiki>

[19:21] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: does it have the ribbon particles, too?</nowiki>

[19:21] Baker Linden<nowiki>: Qie, I've considered adding scripting functions with group bans. It won't happen at launch, but I've been thinking about it.</nowiki>

[19:22] Simon Linden<nowiki>: That's in the "Second Life Beta Maintenance Viewer" near the bottom of the page</nowiki>

[19:22] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: nice</nowiki>

[19:22] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: Baker: superb! that's very encouraging, thanks!</nowiki>

[19:22] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Yeay! Baker</nowiki>

[19:22] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Oh, when you mute particles and then remove from block list (remove owner) the particles don't render until you change active group tag. Im guessing thats expected behaviour?</nowiki>

[19:22] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: i think it might be quite hard to select a particle when u r surrounded by a cloud of them that move around u like crazy...</nowiki>

[19:22] Simon Linden<nowiki>: It also have a fps limit on particles ... the viewer stops making new ones when it hits 4 fps</nowiki>

[19:22] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: Baker are group banlists grouped with parcel banlist moderation abilities or is it it's own ability</nowiki>

[19:22] Simon Linden<nowiki>: has*</nowiki>

[19:23] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Its really easy to select them actually. I was surprised how accurate that was</nowiki>

[19:23] Simon Linden<nowiki>: That sounds strange, Whirly ... I wouldn't expect them to come back until the viewer tries to generate them again</nowiki>

[19:24] Baker Linden<nowiki>: Lucy, Group banlists are their own ability.</nowiki>

[19:24] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: maybe the LL viewer needs a particle explorer sort of like Firestorm's Sound Explorer.....I use that a lot to find offending sounds and the person causing them.</nowiki>

[19:24] Simon Linden<nowiki>: we really didn't look at that end of it much</nowiki>

[19:24] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Maybe that group change is somehow causing an update so the particles are refreshed</nowiki>

[19:25] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Ya</nowiki>

[19:25] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: also, do you have it setup that invites do not auto unban agents that are on the banlist whether attempted or accepted?</nowiki>

[19:25] Simon Linden<nowiki>: but it feels like they shouldn't be connected</nowiki>

[19:26] Simon Linden<nowiki>: That's an interesting edge case, Lucy ... I would think it would be better for the invite to get dropped if they're on the ban list than trying to guess if you really meant to invite them back in or not</nowiki>

[19:27] Motor Loon<nowiki>: for sure</nowiki>

[19:27] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Okay Ill file that then, wasn't sure if it was a bug or not. Its not new behaviour when unblocking a user - you always had to change group tag (or TP out & back or relog) to see their particles after unvlocking. Group tag change is just a quick way of getting data resent.</nowiki>

[19:27] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Yes, drop the invite, assuming that there is an unban capability</nowiki>

[19:27] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: its not an edge case imo as there are different levels of opreation in groups particularly between invite roles and banlist moderation</nowiki>

[19:27] machka Resident<nowiki>: ok this is a lot of tech stuff for me, but banlists dont work really, if you own half a sim they just land on the other parcel and crash it</nowiki>

[19:28] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: I don't want those not affiliated with inviting interfereing with moderation</nowiki>

[19:28] Baker Linden<nowiki>: You would have to unban them to reinvite. I never thought about that, but yeah, that's how I'd do it.</nowiki>

[19:28] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: nods nods</nowiki>

[19:28] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Yeah, that's a common problem with mainland and unmanaged private estates, Machka</nowiki>

[19:28] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: *don't want those affiliated with inviting interefering with moderation, heh</nowiki>

[19:28] Kitto Flora<nowiki>: Speaking of particles - what became of the 'Ribbon' particles, promised back in March?</nowiki>

[19:28] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: indirectly/accidentally</nowiki>

[19:28] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Agreed, Machka ... there's a limit to what you can do if there's freely open land on the same region</nowiki>

[19:28] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: changing group tag was always a work around to get people who weren't rez to suddenly rez.....somehow it does force an update</nowiki>

[19:29] machka Resident<nowiki>: yes Simon</nowiki>

[19:29] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Yep, its a usefull trick</nowiki>

[19:29] Baker Linden<nowiki>: If you're banned, you're on that ban list until you get taken off. Once you're off, you're free to rejoin the group.</nowiki>

[19:29] Baker Linden<nowiki>: It may take an extra couple clicks</nowiki>

[12:30] Meeter<nowiki>: Timecheck : User Group is half over</nowiki>

[19:30] Baker Linden<nowiki>: but it's sure better than having to re-ban someone immediately. That just lets them grief for those few seconds :)</nowiki>

[19:30] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: better than having the banned jumping back in via a friends invite.</nowiki>

[19:30] Simon Linden<nowiki>: There's a backlog of unreleased bug fixes and mini-features like the new ribbon particles. The first part of that is the project viewer I linked before. Once that one is out, we'll get the next one going</nowiki>

[19:30] Simon Linden<nowiki>: The new viewer release process will hopefully help with that backlog problem</nowiki>

[19:30] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: The tiling bug is back in that beta maintenance viewer btw.</nowiki>

[19:31] Kitto Flora<nowiki>: OK, ty</nowiki>

[19:31] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: I'd love circular particle motion..</nowiki>

[19:31] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: I need to file that still</nowiki>

[19:31] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: The viewer has the capability, but the scripted system doesn't take advantage of it</nowiki>

[19:31] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Speaking of which, are they any plans to impliment logs of group operations (invites, ejects including from roles, changes to roles, etc).</nowiki>

[19:31] machka Resident<nowiki>: i have to go now, i said what i wanted to say so I hope LL will take it in consideration and thank you Simon</nowiki>

[19:31] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Please do, Whily - we have an update to that release that's about to go out</nowiki>

[19:31] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: i would like particles to loop through a list of pos:)</nowiki>

[19:31] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Whirly*</nowiki>

[19:32] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: I know there have been JIRAs for these features</nowiki>

[19:32] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Kallista - there are no plans for group activity logs that I know of</nowiki>

[19:33] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: Thank you</nowiki>

[19:33] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: OOOh okay. Ill get to that today. Basically if any post processing effects are applied when taking snapdhots in deferred (just glow even) then the tiling bugs back. Also, it causes Nvidia driver crashes a lot when taking shots. I never get that on regular V3. My friend tested who has a 590 card & his driver crashed every 2nd shot on the maintenance viewer too, so somethings wrong. The 590 shouldn't crash heh.</nowiki>

[19:34] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Those driver crashes are ugly</nowiki>

[19:34] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: We both had this crash </nowiki>http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3008

[19:34] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: I was gonna poke at it more before I filed</nowiki>

[19:35] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: & its constant, pretty much every other shot & it only happens with maintenance viewer</nowiki>

[19:35] Simon Linden<nowiki>: At least it's reproducible, that's a good thing</nowiki>

[19:35] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: I thought it may be I was pushing my card too much testing large file sizes but my friend was the same with a 590..so....</nowiki>

[19:36] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: I'll have to try the beta viewer..I got a 650.</nowiki>

[19:38] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: But look..seems back </nowiki>http://i.imgur.com/wDLnGqv.png<nowiki> :(</nowiki>

[19:38] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: *sems</nowiki>

[19:38] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: gah seams</nowiki>

[19:38] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: that is something I've never experienced.</nowiki>

[19:39] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: only freaky thing I do experience with nvidia is at high altitudes sometimes your skin shows up as part of the sky for a moment. lol</nowiki>

[19:39] Simon Linden<nowiki>: you need the right kind of object and graphics features enabled to see it</nowiki>

[19:40] Simon Linden<nowiki>: wow, that sounds like a good one, Duckie</nowiki>

[19:40] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: well I got ALM turned ou to the max pretty much</nowiki>

[19:40] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: its skin and clothign layers, I see it half the time I log in at high alt</nowiki>

[19:40] Nalates Urriah<nowiki>: I've seen Duckie's thing, but it has been awhile.</nowiki>

[19:40] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Yeah I get that. Toggle ALM off & back on to fix it, or anything that reloads shaders. Only a temp fix though till you rebake again</nowiki>

[19:41] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: yeah..it's mostly at high altitudes above cloud level but it goes away</nowiki>

[19:41] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: VWR-28962</nowiki>

[19:41] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: There's something I've noticed about performance, and I just remembered it. When I'm in a region that's seriously loaded with sculpts, mesh, scripts, local lights and all (a region that causes my frame rate to go really down) and I teleport back to a "cleaner" region, my frame rates in the "clean" region are not as high as I'd expect of it.</nowiki>

[19:41] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Broken JIRA thingy?</nowiki>

[19:42] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: </nowiki>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28962<nowiki> (Skin face texture showing on the sky)</nowiki>

[19:42] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Relogging fixes that, but...</nowiki>

[19:42] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: i don't think the jira thingy work since jiras r not public anymore</nowiki>

[19:42] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: :(</nowiki>

[19:42] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: yup that's exactly it..happened to me earlier today but on firestorm.</nowiki>

[19:43] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Yeah, same thing on FS</nowiki>

[19:43] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: I crash too often to have issues with lag, but I have noticed the current viewer is badly pipelined...I get lots of hitches and freezes just camming around a sim I have been in for an hour or so.</nowiki>

[19:43] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: wonder if the skin-sky texture thing will change after SSA</nowiki>

[19:44] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: and the first right-click of the day for context menu popup freezes the renderer for 10-15 seconds while it grinds the hard drive.</nowiki>

[19:44] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Hmm maybe? But it must be your local bake you see in the sky because only you see it, so..maybe not.</nowiki>

[19:44] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: Whirly, good point.</nowiki>

[19:44] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Maybe it will only happen when in appearance mode</nowiki>

[19:45] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: I'm betting it will still happen, heh</nowiki>

[19:45] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: So, I know that Andrew probably has the answer to this, but how's the interest list fixes going?</nowiki>

[19:46] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I'm not sure why the viewer would continue to perform badly after leaving a busy region, but it's not too hard to guess about a few things ... the graphics system was probably overloaded, there might be memory leaks, a bunch of lingering data, stuff like that. I'm guessing since I'm mostly in the server</nowiki>

[19:47] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: maybe cache is not cleared?</nowiki>

[19:47] Simon Linden<nowiki>: it wouldn't be, Rex</nowiki>

[19:47] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Since the SSA code went in, theres some lovely extra memory leaks :/</nowiki>

[19:47] Sovereign Engineer<nowiki>: /me nods</nowiki>

[19:47] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: My guess is poor memory management... fragmentation</nowiki>

[19:47] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I hope, at least ... in a normal case, I'd like to be able to return to a region and not download everything again</nowiki>

[19:47] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: dangling pionters?</nowiki>

[19:48] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: pointers*</nowiki>

[19:48] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Heh.. I redownload stuff all the time even when I have been staying in the same region for hours.</nowiki>

[19:48] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I know there's been some viewer-side work on that with the group Andrew's involved in ... he's done the server-side code, but others were working on the viewer and caching was one of the systems they were improving</nowiki>

[19:49] Nalates Urriah<nowiki>: OZ talked about taking a look at the viewer caching system.</nowiki>

[19:49] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: The two-char-per-cell xyzzytext systems are bad about having their textures swap in and out of the cache.</nowiki>

[19:50] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: xyzztext is old.....it's all about mesh nextext now. :)</nowiki>

[19:50] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: huh?</nowiki>

[19:50] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: I rez a sample</nowiki>

[19:50] Levio Serenity<nowiki>: yea, death to monospace fonts</nowiki>

[19:50] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Well, same basic system.</nowiki>

[19:50] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I can imagine those might not be efficent, Talarus</nowiki>

[19:50] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: heh</nowiki>

[19:50] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Speaking of viewer caching, how does the viewer distribute a GPU's VRAM between textures and other things?</nowiki>

[19:51] Simon Linden<nowiki>: I have no idea, Mona</nowiki>

[19:51] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Mostly handled by OpenGL</nowiki>

[19:51] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: you should be able to grab a copy of that</nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258605.171875, 32.545422></nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258605.234375, 32.261700></nowiki>

[19:51] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: the creator is rather brilliant.</nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258605.203125, 32.144447></nowiki>

[19:51] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:51] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Yeah, Nexii is pretty smart :)</nowiki>

[19:52] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: and very generous</nowiki>

[19:52] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: Oh, it's Nexii's stuff. Okay.</nowiki>

[19:52] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:52] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258605.109375, 32.352028></nowiki>

[19:52] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:52] Simon Linden<nowiki>: that has no-copy scripts in it</nowiki>

[19:52] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: and no, can't take copy</nowiki>

[19:52] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: (although I still can't take a copy)</nowiki>

[19:52] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: He probably included it in his latest library release</nowiki>

[19:53] Simon Linden<nowiki>: someone needs to loosen the content permissions if you want to give it away</nowiki>

[19:53] Simon Linden<nowiki>: or set it up to buy for L$0</nowiki>

[19:53] Duckie Dickins<nowiki>: it should be set as both</nowiki>

[19:53] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:53] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258605.546875, 32.559746></nowiki>

[19:53] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:53] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:53] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258605.296875, 32.340801></nowiki>

[19:53] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: buy for 0 works</nowiki>

[19:53] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:53] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Still need the content perms loosened to be useful</nowiki>

[19:54] Nalates Urriah<nowiki>: I bought a copy</nowiki>

[19:54] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: perms are fine, actually...</nowiki>

[19:54] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: ok</nowiki>

[19:54] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:54] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258605.468750, 31.941525></nowiki>

[19:54] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: allow anyone to take copy is just fussy beyond belief.</nowiki>

[19:54] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:54] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: start</nowiki>

[19:54] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: <262099.843750, 258604.468750, 32.949810></nowiki>

[19:54] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: stop</nowiki>

[19:54] Simon Linden<nowiki>: yeah, let's not get started discussing the permissions system</nowiki>

[19:54] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: :P</nowiki>

[19:54] Rex Cronon<nowiki>: u want to allow only groups to take a copy?</nowiki>

[12:55] Meeter<nowiki>: Timecheck : User Group is almost over</nowiki>

[19:55] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Yes, especially persistent animation perms :P</nowiki>

[19:55] Levio Serenity<nowiki>: thats like what i made and have been wearing over my head for a month. glad to see its catching on!</nowiki>

[19:55] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: oh lord</nowiki>

[19:55] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Sorry.. had to say it. It's been a sore subject with me lately. :P</nowiki>

[19:56] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: oh, oh, but : *PERMS* ... EXPERIENCE PERMISSIONS... any hope of new info about those? like... documentation of how they'll work or anything?</nowiki>

[19:56] Simon Linden<nowiki>: No news on that yet, Qie ... I don't even know myself</nowiki>

[19:56] Qie Niangao<nowiki>: okay... I'll just keep asking. :p Thanks Simon.</nowiki>

[19:57] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: I'd keep asking about SCR-4, but Kelly is going to beat me up if I do. :P</nowiki>

[19:57] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Nice ask-without-asking there, lol</nowiki>

[19:58] Kelly Linden<nowiki>: /me ignores Talarus</nowiki>

[19:58] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Oh well. I guess that's all I can think of until next week. >.></nowiki>

[19:58] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: See? P</nowiki>

[19:58] Kallista Destiny<nowiki>: /me gigles</nowiki>

[19:58] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: I'd liek to see it ,lol</nowiki>

[19:59] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: What's the status of VWR-13228, by the way?</nowiki>

[19:59] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: building lists including 80% of params that are just place holders is wastful with memory</nowiki>

[19:59] Talarus Luan<nowiki>: Kelly beating me up? Would be humorous. :P</nowiki>

[19:59] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: I saw it mentioned by someone yesterday and it puzzled me.</nowiki>

[13:00] Meeter<nowiki>: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group</nowiki>

[20:00] Simon Linden<nowiki>: Oh, that's been around for a long time, but I saw a bunch of chat in SL groups recently about some object (also old?) that abuses that</nowiki>

[20:00] Lucia Nightfire<nowiki>: yes, old as teh hills</nowiki>

[20:01] Whirly Fizzle<nowiki>: Yeah its ancient</nowiki>

[20:01] Mona Eberhardt<nowiki>: Is