breaking stuff: thanks for the response :P
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Revision as of 18:32, 5 July 2013
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:This is something I am seeing more recently and have been mentioning more and more (and I’m somewhat going off-topic). All the automatisms we have with SMW et al. are really ''awesome''. As a programmer this is just great to see it all work out and link all the content which each other. As a wiki editor though, I really have issues with it. All this abstractions to super complex templates are really cool to make the content non-redundant and interlinked, but it also makes editing very hard. It is not obvious where content comes from if all there is is only a single template call. It’s something where we are probably losing a lot of possible editors (RE reddit), simply because they don’t know how to do it and don’t bother getting behind the logic or even asking about it (that behaviour is totally fine btw.). My overused example is {{tl|area events}} which just magically works. If I want to add a new event to the list, I’m just lost because it’s not obvious how it works.
:This is something I am seeing more recently and have been mentioning more and more (and I’m somewhat going off-topic). All the automatisms we have with SMW et al. are really ''awesome''. As a programmer this is just great to see it all work out and link all the content which each other. As a wiki editor though, I really have issues with it. All this abstractions to super complex templates are really cool to make the content non-redundant and interlinked, but it also makes editing very hard. It is not obvious where content comes from if all there is is only a single template call. It’s something where we are probably losing a lot of possible editors (RE reddit), simply because they don’t know how to do it and don’t bother getting behind the logic or even asking about it (that behaviour is totally fine btw.). My overused example is {{tl|area events}} which just magically works. If I want to add a new event to the list, I’m just lost because it’s not obvious how it works.
:I’m not sure how we can solve this problem but we really should. <span style="font-size: 85%;">[[User:Poke|poke]] | [[User talk:Poke|talk]]</span> 09:54, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
:I’m not sure how we can solve this problem but we really should. <span style="font-size: 85%;">[[User:Poke|poke]] | [[User talk:Poke|talk]]</span> 09:54, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
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::I have no experience from GWW, but there were long discussions and clear consensus for a lot of the early stuff. Most of those editors seem to have left after the release, discussion I've had on all the templates are relegated to no response after days or an issue from a change I made a week ago. I have no doubt implementing SMW makes it even harder for people to provide feedback. I have Claret and people on my page to delegate problems with SMW and half the time I have to go to Ishmael for issues. I don't actually expect people to have problem with semantic templates because they should be changing the infobox first, and being amazed as the information is updated automatically in all the right places.
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::I also understand that all the new semantic templates look like magic and make no discernible sense. DPL implementation looks like magic and I spent hours trying to understand how infoboxes were implemented just so I could add stuff to it. I don't know what we can do about stuff like {{tl|area events}}. On one hand, checking manually which events start in an area is almost impossible and labor intensive and if we generate it semantically (Or even with DPL), it will simply confuse editors. I feel it makes editing area pages easier rather than harder for users overall seeing how many areas were missing most or all events (And me having to add one obscure event manually).
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::One part we're dragging behind in is telling people how spreading information semantically works, that all they need to know pretty much is how to add an infobox for an article to "add" items to lists. That was one of my gripes with learning SMW from the start. Once people get past that, they should have no problem understanding that adding or making changes to an infobox carries it over. For making changes to the template itself, most people will go on the talk page whether or not it has semantic code in my experience, maybe that's not true.
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::I expect it will be a larger issue if we ever start implementing {{tl|vendor table row}}, all the new {{tl|recipe}} templates should be confusing to people (How does it ''know'' that item goes there and there on that list?!?!). Even with all this semantic stuff going on, there's more than enough stuff that we won't or can't automate. It bothers me as I create shiny new templates that magically work and can be pervasive across the wiki, I don't have prior experience with how it impacts users.
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::If I wanted to paraphrase the issue, it would be semantic templates make it easier for people to add and change articles with drawback is that additional problems will creep up from which a limited number of people can deal with.--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">talk</font>]] < 18:32, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
==Item links in korean==
==Item links in korean==