Waverley Knobs presents the Branch-Out Podcast with your hosts, Evin Charles Anderson and Tatiana Ivan. We discuss all the exciting facets of digital media and marketing for businesses and professionals. Our goal is to empower you so you can increase your knowledge, engagement, and brand identity. Let's get ready to branch out.
Find David here:
The David Pakman Show
Twitter: @DavidPakmanShow
Listen to the full interview or read the transcript below:
EVIN ANDERSON:
Thank you for listening to episode 30 of Branch-Out: The Digital Media & Marketing Podcast. Today we have a very special guest that we're very excited about: David Pakman from The David Pakman Show. Now, if you haven't heard of David Pakman, let me tell you, you're missing out. He has an absolutely amazing political commentary show, which is multi-platformed: on radio, television, and internet. It's airing on Pacifica radio stations, Free Speech TV via DIRECT TV and Dish Network, and on public access TV nationwide and via internet podcast or even YouTube. David holds an MBA from Bentley University and an Undergraduate Degree in Economics and Communications from the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. Thank you very much for joining us today, David. We really appreciate you being here.
DAVID PAKMAN:
Thanks for having me.
EVIN ANDERSON:
Absolutely. We're very excited. We are big fans of your podcast and of your show. You have a great membership structure to it, too. Can you go a little bit into that?
DAVID PAKMAN:
Yes. The broadcast program that we have -- which is an hour a day, five days a week -- that has always been free, available to anybody. It's the same show if you turn on the radio, watch on Free Speech TV, or listen to our podcast; it's the same one hour show. It always has been free, it always will be free.
What we offer to people who want to support the production of the show is something called the membership program. One of the benefits of that is: we have additional content just for paid subscribers. Some people call this a freemium model, where the main content is free, but there's also premium content at a cost.
It comes with other membership benefits, a commercial free TV show, instead of watching short, chopped up clips on YouTube, and a whole list of other things. The general concept is that we want as many people as possible to watch or listen to the show, so we would never start charging for that. The idea is to get the portion of our audience that is engaged enough to say, "This is worth supporting!" and giving them something extra, above and beyond what we already distribute for free.
EVIN ANDERSON:
That's a great way of expanding your market. Getting people involved and letting them more about you.
DAVID PAKMAN:
There are some podcasts that have tried just charging for the podcast, right? So there's essentially nothing free, maybe a five, ten, or fifteen minute sample, but the podcast is paid for. It works for some people. For some people, it does not work. You really have to have a very large following -- usually on another platform -- when you jump to an exclusively paid podcast for that to work. I've seen some people who were not in that position try it, and it literally went nowhere for them. Our goal is maximum distribution. We have other ways of monetizing the free content anyway, so there's really no win in my mind in restricting the audience for that broadcast show.
TATIANA IVAN:
Originally you started with a radio show in North Hampton. Now you're nationally syndicated. Give us a sense of that journey. Where did the interest from media come from? What do you feel was the driving force that got you to where you are, currently, in your career?
DAVID PAKMAN:
I was always interested in media. Early, in my first couple years doing my Bachelor's degree at the University of Massachusetts, I started to really learn a lot in the communication department about how media is structured, and what are the forces that influence what we see on TV and radio, but sometimes, more interestingly, what we don't see. I had this sort of generally growing interest in media.
While I was doing an internship with the Media Education Foundation during my Junior year at UMASS. They helped to start a non-profit radio station called Valley Free Radio WXOJ North Hampton, Massachusetts. At the time, it was a wide open schedule, right? I mean they had no shows. It was a brand new community radio station so I was able to, with no experience or clue about what I was doing whatsoever, slide in and for $25/year (my volunteer membership fee) be assigned a time slot, which is crazy, because most of the time you have to be hired at a radio station. This was an opportunity to do community radio and it just seemed like a great opportunity.
As far as the subject matter, I've always been into sports but not enough to do a sports radio show. That wasn't appealing. I didn't want to just be a DJ and play music. So this sort of natural direction was politics, which is something I'm interested in. I already, you know, grew up in a very political family and always around it. It became something to just - sort of try as a somewhat bored college junior. From there it went into offering the show to other stations and initially just one or two other stations picked up the show. Eventually over a nine year period, it grew into what it is today.
EVIN ANDERSON:
Your show, too, is known for having very diverse guests. People from left wing, right wing. People who have been noted as Islamophobic or homophobic or anything else. A really well diverse group of people. What drove you to decide to get that kind of diversity involved in your show, rather than just kind of - clenching to what people would typically consider safe?
DAVID PAKMAN:
Yes. I mean, this is "safe" -- on this type of show that I do -- generally speaking with political consultants, candidates, elected officials, and to be quite honest, those interviews are the ones that typically do the least well with my audience. There's rarely news broken in that type of interview and we were never quite big enough to get serious presidential candidates or that type of thing.
A more interesting direction, to me, was explore other types of guests. You mentioned extremists and people with outrageous beliefs (that are pretty vile in many cases). I've always been interested in. I grew up in a household that was pretty political but pretty moderate so it was hard to imagine, to me, how somebody would, at the age of 18, 20, or 25 or whatever find themselves holding outrageous extreme beliefs. I am interested in how is that cultivated.
With the example of the Westborough Baptist Church, we find out it's cultivated from a pretty young age. There's nothing natural about incredibly bigoted or extremist beliefs. You, sort of, have to be taught them by someone. Rarely do you come across and say "It seems obvious to me that racism is a natural belief." That type of guest was always really interesting.
Also, professors, experts in science and different fields. We've interviewed Neil Degrasse Tyson, the host of Cosmos many times, not many, three or four times. We've had professors on who are experts in everything from gambling to, I don't know, using algae as an alternative source for oil to stop having to drill for it. With over nearly 600 interviews we've done at this point (we just recently counted!) it's been a pretty diverse list, as you mentioned.
EVIN ANDERSON:
I think that's fantastic and it's a great way of educating people. I feel like there is an audience out there who is very hungry for information and for something that just isn't being provided to them by, if you will, mainstream media, MSNBC or what have you. I think what excites me is to have a show like yours out there, where you're willing to cover these topics and go into, say, the psychology of peoples thought processes, the new kind of scientific revolutions that are happening but we easily overlook it because it's not right in front of us every single day.
DAVID PAKMAN:
Yes. The downside to doing what we do and having such guest diversity is a lot of the guest will not appeal to everybody. And we get a lot of emails from people who say, you know, three out of your five guests a week I'm just not that interested in and I skip over it. And that's okay because we're doing, the guest is just about a quarter of each show and hopefully there is something for everyone. I totally get that. There are sort of four types of programs like mine and they can be topic driven, guest drive, collar driven, or host driven. The guest driven shows, which are back to back to back guests, if you don't have the exact right selection of guests for the audience, you do risk alienating a lot of people, and that's why we've chosen to make the guest portion just about a quarter of our show rather than the whole thing.
TATIANA IVAN:
And you can not please everyone all of the time.
DAVID PAKMAN:
You cannot. And that's something I had to learn pretty early on. When the show first started, it was an opinion show in theory, but my opinions were all right in the middle, right? It was just sort of like well on the one hand this is my tendency, but at the same time I can kind of see how one would look at it and come away with this. And it's very boring. I was sort of scared of really taking very defined positions because I was worried about hate mail, which is sort of funny to think about now, right, I mean we get so much hate mail, thousands of YouTube comments a day, and emails. We've turned the hate mail into a segment, every Wednesday we have a professional voice over artist who voices over in a sort of dramatic announcer voice, hate mail that we get.
At the very beginning I was sort of afraid, imagine if people don't like what I say and they email me something nasty. Getting over that was good, and it's really lead to me just saying, you know, I'm going to do the show the way I want to do, the way the positions resonate with me. Not everybody will agree with me, even people that often typically agree with me, and that is just going to have to be okay because it doesn't really make sense to do it any other way.
EVIN ANDERSON:
And you've had amazing growth, as you mentioned too, in the type of people that you've had on your show, for instance. We did come across an article that you had on MassLive.com back in 2010 where you said your goal originally was to be on a hundred stations and to eventually have a daily show. Which, I mean now, you've made it to having a weekly five day show, and you even have a much larger media impact with the reach even out in Sweden, of all places. A lot of this has been carried on your shoulders, as well as Louis'. What kind of core marketing efforts have you utilized that seem to be the largest kind of impact within your industry and why do you feel that has an impact the way it does?
DAVID PAKMAN:
I mean the biggest single change or sort of decision ... To step back, running a show like this is sort of, you make tons of decisions every single day. Most of them are pretty little individually, but they have a sort of big cumulative of affect. Years ago, we decided we are going to commit to Facebook and Twitter. We are going to be engaged there. We're going to publish our content there. We'll do our best to respond to people and really create a community. On no particular day did our Facebook or Twitter followings grow drastically, but it was sort of making that commitment to engage with those platforms everyday, where now we have 50 thousand people following our Facebook page, and between our multiple Twitter accounts, close to 100 thousand people there, and now we Tweet anything out and we instantly get feedback from people. I was just Tweeting with Roseanne Barr today, who is on Twitter and engages with our show. There's all sorts of things that have happened. There was no single day where we said, okay now Twitter is really doing something for us. It's sort of everyday, you're growing it a little bit.
Generally there's no major decision where from one day to another, has this huge impact. The exception to that would be when we decided to make what was a radio and audio podcast, a video program. That opened up the YouTube platform, which is huge, over 223 thousand subscribers as of today. Public access television. Eventually getting us on Free Speech TV, which now broadcasts, they used to put us on Saturday 2 am for an hour and now we're they're 11 pm Eastern, 8 pm Pacific time daily show. That's sort of ... The big change didn't happen the day we started doing video, although it was a very big change, we now had to edit not only an audio but also a video show. But the big change was all that opened up to us by making that decision.
EVIN ANDERSON:
And, you know, you're one of the only shows that actually utilize Reddit. How did you decide to go that route and what kind of results have you seen from it?
DAVID PAKMAN:
Using Reddit has lead to mixed results, I guess I would say, which is probably what most people would tell you about their experience on Reddit. Yes, at a certain point, I realized that there were, when we had viral videos, that made it to the front page of Reddit. The traffic impact was huge. Huge viral impact. That sort of confirmed to me that there is a large audience there. Then, some viewers approached me and said we would like to create a David Pakman show, sub Reddit. We'll sort of curate it and moderate your content. You can be a moderator so we can call it the official sub Reddit of The David Pakman Show. It's still not huge. It only has about 1,500 subscribers which in the grand scheme of our platforms is really tiny but it has a relatively high level of engagement, which I am finding is the case with Instagram.
I only have 21,000 followers on Instagram, but sometimes I'll get a ten percent response rate, on Instagram, which is orders of magnitude bigger than Facebook or Twitter. It's interesting, I mean there's a lot of trolling on Reddit, there's a lot of just nonsense, even on our own sub Reddit. Our policy, generally speaking, is when there's not personal attacks or threats, even if there's nonsense content, or trolling or whatever, we just leave it, and most communities have a pretty good system of up voting, down voting, liking, reporting, that it'll just sort of sort itself out.
EVIN ANDERSON:
A couple of the political parties have now talked about hiring trolls or you know, having people trolling out there. Have you come across like an influx of trolls since kind of this whole campaign and these runs have been going?
DAVID PAKMAN:
The sort of Trump, people, and the Bernie people, interestingly enough, both have very significant, aggressive online presences. I'll sort of give you ... There's two, sort of, umbrellas that these fall under. At a certain point, anything that we started doing related to Trump, almost instantly received a ton of down votes, both on Reddit and on YouTube. Just a ton. Even if it's just relatively straight forward stuff, you know. Trump hires Ben Carson to help him pick a VP or something like that. Of course we're critical of the entire idea of having Ben Carson help you do anything in the segment, but we are reporting the truth, that did happen. And instantly, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 percent of the up votes down votes are down votes, which is very high on our channel. Anything we do on Trump, huge negative feedback, no matter what it is.
When we started saying, and I've been very clear on my show, I voted for Bernie Sanders here in Massachusetts and I believe he is, was, you know, if he is in until the convention, but effectively I think that this thing is over, math of it, a lot of people would get very angry with me and it was the same sort of that if Bernie Sanders doesn't win, he won't win. Or how dare I suggest that the math may be turning in Hilary's favor. I thought that was sort of unproductive as well, you know. I don't care so much about the Trump trolls, those aren't the people that I am appealing to politically. But the sort of infighting that developed with the Bernie people and the Hilary people during really the middle of the campaign, was disappointing, I guess, to say the least.
EVIN ANDERSON:
I definitely respect that wholly. Because I've seen that too. Especially with all the different articles that have come out. Even in the very beginning when Bernie started to rise, you already started to see this kind of division between the party. It's sad. People go, well you're the reason why we have problems, and they point out and go, well you're the reason why we have problems. There really isn't anything constructive coming out of it.
DAVID PAKMAN:
Yes. In many cases there isn't. I think the best way for the Bernie Sanders movement to endure, would be to have people that are sort of thinking through the issue as it exists rather than as they wish for it to exist. Then, at a certain point, there will have to be a decision made by Bernie Sanders supporters as to who will they vote for in November, in the same way that the Republicans who are saying they don't want Trump will have to make a decision. Any Republican who doesn't vote for Trump in November is effectively going to be helping Hilary Clinton. Any Bernie supporter who doesn't vote for Hilary Clinton in November is in practice, going to be helping Donald Trump.
We can have very good conversations about well, what about taking a step back to maybe in the future take more steps forward. Or what about the idea of burn down the whole thing so then we can rebuild it in four years. Those are legitimate things to talk about but at a certain point, you'll have to cast a vote and your vote is either going to help or hurt the people that are running.
TATIANA IVAN:
At least each campaign is devoted to creating jobs, for trolls. I would like to see that job posting. "Seeking trolls, compensation, tremendous."
EVIN ANDERSON:
We've kind of delved into the idea or the power of utilizing social media, especially with your brand. Then also YouTube, once you expanded into video. Are there other theories or any kind of concepts that you see developing that could be really strong for digital media going forward?
DAVID PAKMAN:
There's a lot going on right now with the new Live social platforms. Facebook Live, as well as YouTube Live, which has been around for a very long time, but it seems to be used in a sort of more insta-blogger sort of way right now. I think that that's interesting and we haven't really delved too much into that. I think that points to is sort of the real, the big opportunity, which is reporting from areas, places, events, where you don't typically see reporting. This is sort of like a systemic issue with corporate media, as I call it, which is why are we hearing form the Pentagon multiple times a week or a day on CNN, MSNBC, FOX news.
It's not necessarily because there's news from the Pentagon that's that worthwhile every single day, but it's because most of those channels have a Pentagon correspondent, they have cameras there, and they are already there. There's very interesting stories from all over the country, in schools, pharmaceutical companies, vertical farms. But those are places that require more effort to get cameras and to get reporters, et cetera. I think the sort of democratization of media through some of these new technologies, smart phones, Facebook Live, et cetera, that I think, big picture, is the opportunity to do something different.
TATIANA IVAN:
In the early 2000's, when you first came onto the scene, there was a ton of political shows already out there. As the youngest nationally syndicated political host, at the age of 21, what kind of reactions did you receive from the industry or even your audience? Was there even a struggle there? How did you overcome those challenges?
DAVID PAKMAN:
I think inherently it was a struggle because I was starting a show from zero and it was unknown. You don't need individuals to place roadblocks for you, there's sort of this inherit barrier that you need to break which is I need to build an audience, I need to get people listening or watching or whatever it is. There wasn't anything specific, I mean of course, when you look at our hate mail, there's all sorts of critiques and some of them were that I either am too young or look too young to be credible. You know, that's fine, there's all sorts of critiques, and I don't think those are substantive in particularly. I think the real difference was, and this sort of gets to my interest in the business that I am in, in addition to just the program as a sort of idea and activism angle, I recognize the importance of being well organized in terms of the business side, the social media side, the marketing side, because really you're creating a product.
There were a lot ... Most of the programs that started when my program started in 2005, 2006, most of those shows don't exist anymore. And it's not necessarily because they were bad shows, but they really didn't have any infrastructure, they weren't being thought of as a product or as something that should be marketed. There are many people who critique me and say the way that I manage my show is too promotional and there's too much of a focus on marketing and promoting the show. To that I say, show me a show that is doing really well that doesn't do that, and they essentially don't exist. They exist and most people have not heard of them because they are not proactively doing marketing. I don't think there is anything to be ashamed of in terms of saying here is the product, I want people to listen to or watch the product.
When you get into, sort of more dubious specific advertising or promotion techniques, that's where I think there's more of a conversation to have. But the general critique that the show is too promotional, I think that sometimes people always want something to critique, and that's one that I sometimes get when I talk to people who are at community radio stations, for examples. I think progressive media could be doing far better if there were more people who were taking more seriously the promotion side as well as the production side.
TATIANA IVAN:
I'm going to call out some really great points that you made to our audience. One is, for a lot of people who started out young entrepreneurs or people just trying to get something out there in the world, a lot of what can hold you back is your own self limiting beliefs and a lot of times there's nothing, you know, there, out there in the real world, there's no real obstacles in front of you. The second is that sort of, perseverance. No matter how hard it can get in the day or no matter what actual obstacle, internal, external that you might face, you have to push through.
Find new ways to get around them, try something new, trial and error always works for everybody, and really just stick with it because a lot of times people who may not succeed in something it's because they've given up and they don't decide to try something new or keep going. Keep going in the face of hate mail or people telling you how to do something. I know that whenever we do get any negative feedback, at least when I get negative feedback in something that I'm doing from somebody who isn't doing the same thing, you know, I'll turn to them and say, oh yeah, well what have you done or what suggestions do you have for improvement, and then, you know, silence.
DAVID PAKMAN:
I think there's sort of a difference, sometimes, in the two questions you said, the hypothetical questions you can ask, what have you done and what would you suggest I do to improve. I think the what have you done sometimes makes sense but sometimes it gets us down a row that I don't think is as good. For example, when you hear those saying you cannot comment on whether going to the Iraq war's a bad idea because you haven't served in the military. Is that really a prerequisite, to be able to analyze whether this engagement makes sense? I don't know.
But I think the point you're making is a good one. Often times I talk to people who are definitely talented or could learn. A lot of things can be learned. There's certainly, sort of, natural talent, right. I mean if you are naturally very introverted, it may be hard to have a successful show where you're interviewing people because there's going to be sort of natural tendencies there. But that doesn't mean introverts cannot learn to do good interviews, you know.
There's a certain, sort of, balance. To a certain degree though, I think there are some limits. I don't think no matter how, if I decided to instead of pursuing this to pursue boxing, I don't know that I would have ever been a good boxer, not matter how much I practice, right. At a certain point, I think it is important, to a certain degree, to be able to analyze and say, is this not going well, because I haven't practiced long enough, had the right teachers, or whatever. Or is this maybe not my thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with being able to recognize when something isn't your thing, either.
TATIANA IVAN:
For all of the interesting people that we're lucky to have on our show, we do a little segment called WOW, which is words of wisdom. For the listeners out there who might want to become part of the media industry, what Words of Wisdom do you have for them on how they utilize marketing and digital media to get started?
DAVID PAKMAN:
Whenever I speak to journalism students at colleges or high schools, or do panels at conferences or whatever, what I always like to remind everybody is, at no point did I apply for any job nor did anyone make the decision to hire me, in growing my show to where I got it now. A lot of that has been because of the digital media and online platforms that exist today, right.
Because of podcasting, YouTube, and community media, to some degree, the closest thing I've ever had to do, in terms of the formal job application process is send a sample of my show to a program director and say, this is the show, I would like for you to broadcast it. Sometimes the answer is yes and sometimes it's no. But there's really no one person who can decide I get to have this show or I get to use Twitter or Facebook. There's also no single person that can decide that my show is over, right. There's no one single person that funds the show. There's no one single person that decides whether the show is allowed to be produced or whatever.
I think that there's just no better time to start a media venture, because you no longer need the approval of some executive somewhere, or passing some Myers Briggs personality test, in order to get a show. You can just start it. And I think that's the greatest possible thing. Once you realize that, a lot of doors are opened in terms of being able to just go out and start. You might start and it turns out, you don't like. Maybe you start and it turns out you like it, but you're more interested in doing this as a sort of every other week hobby, where you interview someone that, an author who's books you like, or something like that. I think it's also important to know that if that's the path you go on, there's huge value in that as well. I know many business owners who, or even writers, authors, et cetera, who do something in media as a sort of creative outlet. It's not ever going to be their full time job and it's not ever going to be a huge success in terms of the numbers, but that doesn't mean it cannot be very successful within a niche or serve a purpose for that individual in some other area of life.
EVIN ANDERSON:
That was some great insight. We really appreciate you letting that all out because that is really important for people to hear, especially in media. There are people who are just like, well I don't know where to start. And it can be very intimidating, especially when it's all about ... Really, it used to be just about networking and who did you know. As you're saying, now, well the platforms are out there, it's just up to you to utilize them and to continue through and persevere through it.
DAVID PAKMAN:
It absolutely is, yes. The networking is important. I did more of it, sort of, earlier on. It was with a lot of, sort of, legacy and corporate media people. And I eventually determined not that it didn't, that there was no point in doing that, or that there was no advantage to networking with that crowd but I increasingly realized they were just more interested in figuring out what I was doing because what they've been doing ... It's sort of a known entity.
There are people, who I won't name, but who are relatively big in the talk radio world, who would not give me the time of day six years ago when I tried to approach them at conferences, who have now come to me, of course having no recollection whatsoever that they even blew me off six years ago and saying, "Hey, I'm interested in what you're doing. Can you tell me how it is exactly that your YouTube channel is managed?" or that type of thing. I'll usually just help them. Why not help someone if I have the opportunity and now all of a sudden they are going to remember me. I don't really hold a grudge that they didn't care who I was six years ago, but it is funny how things have turned.
Radio is there, radio will continue to be there. Network TV is there, it will continue to be there, it will have a huge audience. But the sort of X factor now is utilizing online.
TATIANA IVAN:
Thank you for not blowing us off, muchly appreciated. In 2010, you set some goals for your show. What are your goals presently?
DAVID PAKMAN:
Right now the goal is to get to five hundred thousand YouTube subscribers. We're not even half way there, right now, so that's a pretty ambitious goal. If we're able to reach that, I think it would probably coincide with lots of other really big things happening for the program. The new project now is we're starting to develop ancillary content, that goes above and beyond just the one hour broadcast show. We've already started to explore with standalone segments, longer form pieces, that are maybe just for our YouTube channel, or maybe distributed on a one off basis through some of our partners, so that's something we're exploring.
We're also in the process continuing to make tech upgrades to the show. Really just refining the way the show looks and the way the show sounds. The big picture goal is just to continue growing the program that I do but also to be able to have stand alone content that is less directly linked to me sitting in front of the microphone, but with me in a more, sort of, production role, because the amount I can host in a day is limited, but the amount that can be done at a studio that we have access to 24 hours a day, is quite big. It's certainly bigger than what we're currently doing. That's a really big goal for the next year.
EVIN ANDERSON:
That's very exciting. Hopefully you can reach those goals and it sounds like, thus far, that is definitely within sight. That is definitely something that will come to fruition, the way it sounds with the amount of passion that you have for what you're doing, as well as the passion that your watchers, your viewers, your listeners have for your show and for the content you're putting out there.
DAVID PAKMAN:
Yes. A lot of the people, their passion is very negative, right? I mean they're very angry or against what I'm saying. But what they maybe don't realize, and we're always aware of, is engagement is a good thing. People who are leaving negative comments, or down voting as opposed to up voting our content on YouTube, we don't necessarily want to remind them of this regularly, but they're essentially helping just as much as somebody who likes what we're doing.
Of course, if you're doing content that is just a source of sort of negative reactions, I don't think that's something that should be ignored. We know that's not the case but even the fact that the content we do is polarizing, right, is part of what we're doing, and it's generating debate and people who disagree with us are just a big a part of what we're doing as those who agree. They're probably not as likely to become paid subscribers but that's okay because that's only one, sort of, part of our model.
TATIANA IVAN:
Anything online I take with a grain of salt, if it is negative just because it's so easy to sit at your computer and type a response, and not really have any filter, or think about consequences, or really even think about your response. I've seen some comments where I don't think they're even writing in English or any other language in this world. That's always something to consider as well.
Sometimes it is harder when you want to, you know, when you do feel positively about something it's actually, I feel like for whatever reason, harder to actually go somewhere and you know, leave a positive comment. I think we're all driven, instinctually, to say something when it's more negative, because we have that kind of rage, anger, frustration inside of us, that it is easier to sit there and let your fingers do the venting.
DAVID PAKMAN:
This is the sort of self selection biased that exists for the online reviews which is I've been to many great hotels, I don't think I've ever even thought about writing a note to the hotel saying what a great experience I had. The times that it's been bad, I've written a note to the hotel. I think the same applies if you're looking at restaurant reviews online or whatsoever the case may be. I think there's always going to be that sort of biased that exists where negative reactions are much more likely to make someone feel strongly enough to even put their opinion out there.
TATIANA IVAN:
Consider this a positive review. We love your show! I personally love the clever wit that's present anytime you talk to someone.
DAVID PAKMAN:
Thank you.
EVIN ANDERSON:
For our listeners, you can find more information on David Pakman at davidpakman.com as well as on Twitter, Facebook, and on YouTube. Thank you very much, David, for being on our show. We really appreciate it, and we look forward to more content coming from you. And until next time, make sure to subscribe, rate, and comment, let us know your thoughts on the show, and make sure to share with your networks. Until next time!
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Branch-Out: THE Digital Media & Marketing Podcast
Everything you need to tell your and your company's story in order to engage, empower & educate! Evin and Tatiana dive into all subjects that will assist you telling your story and increasing your audience engagement. They also bring in thought-leaders, entrepreneurs and trailblazers that are changing how we market and use digital media.
Guests include Dave Gerhardt (Tech in Boston and Drift), Dan Shure (EvolvingSEO, MOZ, Experts On The Wire), Kaite Rosa (VentureFizz), Shawn LaVana (TempAlert), Chris Kavakian (CK Realty Group) and David Pakman (The David Pakman Show).
Hosted by Evin Charles Anderson & Tatiana Ivan
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