2013-08-11

Hello all,

I live in a small town in rural Illinois, and have a terrible bank.

I hate my bank.

There are no BIG banks to transfer to, and the other banks have a terrible reputation as well. In the area we have only small town banks.

When I called and asked if they could send an International Wire transfer in euros, a woman (bank representative) told me that shouldn't be a problem.

Now when I actually going into the bank to make the transfer, a conversion to euros cannot be done. They can send dollars, which can be converted to euros but that's it. I have spoke with the bank manager.

I cannot send euros. To send the International wire transfer (which I have done before for their $60.00 fee) I will have to send $US

now, here's where the story unfolds. On helmet forum German Helmet Walhalla the Administrator (user DH) and I got ourselves into a transaction and agreed to proceed. It was stressed that I send the transfer in EURO. The seller also stated that fees would be on the sender (I would "assume" the fees on my end to initiate the transfer)

I begged to let me send a paypal payment, but the seller refused and once again demanded a bank transfer. Not a big deal, I've transferred Internationally before, not in euros, but I've done them.

I was supposed to start the transfer on the 15th of July. On the 3rd of July I began to replace 3/4 of the foundation on my home, so I've been a little busy. I kept in contact with the seller, explained my situation with the house and asked for additional time. Realistically, I just needed the free time to walk away from my floating house sitting on 19 jack-posts to get to the bank and transfer the funds; it was NOT an issue of finances. In that time I have lifted my entire house, removed the existing foundation, poured a new footing, and laid nearly 600 cinder blocks, not to mention replacing the old sewer & water lines.....like I said, I've had a few honey-do's lately.

Last week I finally got the house stable enough, and the foundation tall enough to be able to switch gears and take care of some personal things. On Friday I went into my bank's main branch to start the money transfer. After arguing with several entry-level employees I demanded to speak with the bank manager whom also insisted they could only send outgoing transfers in $US and not euros. I looked up the conversion rate and saw that 1165 euros (as agreed by seller and I) would convert to be about $1,555.00 US.

I did not start the transfer as I wanted to make sure this wasn't going to be a huge deal (was I wrong!)

the seller (member Schwerpunkt on this forum) now wants me to pay the conversion fees of his bank (from $US to euro)

I have never really heard of a buyer paying seller bank fees for a transaction but at first I wasn't entirely hesitant. I figured the seller agreed to pay the shipping to me, maybe this was just "fair" for the additional time I needed while doing the major renovation to my house. I went back in our PM's and saw that the only thing that was said was "all fees from sender when starting transfer" and I guess I just assumed that meant the fees on my end from my bank (as I certainly don't know what fees his bank is charging to get a transfer, nor was that EVER brought up)

OK, let's work this out. How much are the fees going to be I ask the seller. He then informs me that it is not his duty to find out and I am responsible for 100% of all fees. When I ask how I will pay the difference after the funds are transferred I am told that I should just send another transfer (another $60.00 on my end, plus his transfer fee, plus a conversion fee)

um, what?

then all of a sudden sending the remainder via paypal is an option after the funds have transferred. In my opinion, sending all of the funds via paypal would have made this a lot easier from the start, but still it is not an option, only after the money wire. I didn't even know people really did business on the Internet without paypal - I know a lot of people dislike paypal but let's face it, the easiest way to send money worldwide (and in this case the 4% fee and free conversion into euros would be much cheaper)

When I question all of this to the Administrator of Walhalla I am told that if I don't start the transfer tomorrow I am going to be kicked off the forum. I once again ask how I can possibly send the funds if I don't know how much to send?

if the seller won't tell me how much to send (after conversion fee) how can I send the payment?

Is anyone on my side here or am I just wrong with all of this? Seriously, open discussion. It seems like the seller is putting up the road block and I am trying to work things out and find a solution. I ask him to find out the fees from his bank and he blatantly said he would not invest his time (even though its his bank)

.....and threatening to kick me off his forum if I don't pay him money?

(but he won't tell me how much to pay)

what should I do here? Am I just screwed either way with the seller, Frank Pauwels?

William Kramer

.

.

the PM's between us:

all1knew

Sent Yesterday, 07:45 AM

I went to the bank yesterday to initiate the transfer and they can only transfer in US funds. Is that going to be a huge problem? I have not gave them the go ahead as I wanted to check with you first.

DH

Sent Yesterday, 07:49 AM

Hello William , I have experience with bank transfers and they should deliver the money in euros on my account as agreed and I know for a fact they can do that as I have received wires from the US before.

I thought you checked all this before we made the deal ?

Yes the wire details are correct.

So I expect 1165 euros.

all1knew

Sent Yesterday, 08:07 AM

the only way I can wire the funds is to do $1555.00 US cash and have your bank convert it to euros. I raised a large commotion with the bank manager and he assures me they can not transfer in Euros. I live in a small town of 18,000 people and use a local bank. If I can only send US funds ($1,555.00 would convert to 1165 euros according to xe.com) then you want me to send it still, correct?

DH

Sent Yesterday, 08:46 AM

I don't care how your bank does it , I want to get 1165 euro in my account. Any fees as agreed should be paid by you.

If I get less I will expect you to pay the difference.

all1knew

Sent Yesterday, 08:48 AM

well $1,555 converts to 1165 euros according to xe.com so that's what I am going to send, ok?

There is a $60.00 fee on my end to send the funds but I don't know if there is a fee on your end to receive them. I have no problem paying the $60 on my end but if your bank charges you to get the funds you don't expect me to pay that do you?

William Kramer

DH

Sent Yesterday, 08:53 AM

There will be a conversion charge from USD -> euros. That's also a fee you'll need to pay.

That's why I asked the money to be sent in euros so the conversion is done in your bank.

all1knew

Sent Yesterday, 08:58 AM

well how much is that? I don't understand why you don't sign up for paypal and let me send the payment that way as converting to euros is free and I will pay all paypal fees.

DH

Sent Today, 01:23 AM

Hello William , I'm getting pretty annoyed here.

You agreed to paying me 1165 euros all fees on you. You got extended payment terms and now all of a sudden you have a complete idiot as a bank manager or so you say.

It's pretty simple either you pay me as per our gentleman's agreement or you tell me here and now that you cancel this deal and have wasted 2 months of my time. Time I could have used to find a seriour buyer. Worse , that the money I was counting on receiving will cause me to loose a deal I'm currently negotiating.

I am absolutely appalled at what's transpiring here.

all1knew

Sent Today, 03:33 AM

yes I agree to pay all fees on my end. I cannot control that my small town bank does not send a transfer in Euros. I will pay the $60.00 fee on my end to send an International transfer, I have no problem with that. I do believe it to be unfair that you want me to be responsible for a bank fee on your end, from your bank. I will send you the conversion equivalent in US dollars but there is 100% no way I can transfer the funds from my bank in Euros as THE BANK DOES NOT do this. It is your decision, I can send the transfer of $1,555 (and pay the additional $60.00 to do so, making my total cost $1,615) or you can tell me not to. I will initiate the transfer on Monday if you want me to proceed.

DH

Sent Today, 07:31 AM

The agreement was all fees.

And the payment was to be done in euros so I do not have the conversion fees.

Now you are going to pay in in USD and want me to swallow the conversion fees , you see the difference don't you ?

This deal is turning out to be a big disappointment to me.

You can initiate the wire but if I don't get 1165 euros deposited on my account I will expect you to pay the difference.

The only thing I want right now is that you'll pay me as agreed and cut the crap of what your bank cannot or can do. They will have to calculate the conversion fees in so that I get my money.

And ditch that bank , it's a joke.

all1knew

Sent Today, 09:38 AM

well how much is the conversion fee, you still haven't told me? Find out from ING please, on their side, just make a phone call for us. You don't have a friend with a paypal account that could could accept the funds for you? I can send paypal in euros to you guys and add the 4% for the transfer fees so it would be exactly 1165 euros to the account. If that truly is not an option then find out what ING would charge us to convert the $US into euro. I cannot start a transfer and have it come back $30.00 short and then you expect me to make another transfer as that will cost me an additional $60.00 for each transfer. I can't imagine it would cost that much for a large bank such as ING to convert $US to euro but I need to know how much exactly it will cost.

William Kramer

all1knew

Sent Today, 09:43 AM

doing research I found this so far: https://www.ing.be/S...e_sept-2012.pdf

and that came from Belgium ING

and here is the currency converter for ING:

http://www.ing.lu/we...ertor/index.htm

so it looks like if I send you $1,555.00 that would convert correctly according to the above link but that still doesn't tell me if there are going to be additional conversion fees so you need to find out what they'll be from your bank.

William Kramer

DH

Sent Today, 10:07 AM

William , I shouldn't do anything. You should just pay me and have done with.

I talked with some friends and they could not believe it when I said that your bank could not do a wire in euros. American friends I may add.

I don't work for a bank and I do not know the rates. Your airhead bank manager should do all this for you as you are his customer.

This is honestly the most frustrating helmet deal I ever ventured into please don't make it worse.

DH

Sent Today, 10:12 AM

BTW if you run up short you can send the rest PP to a friend.

all1knew

Sent Today, 10:22 AM

did you see the above links?

As far as your American friends, are they bankers and do they bank with a small town bank? I'm not trying to make anything worse, I'm trying to send you the money and this is what my bank is saying.

I want to know the fees up front prior to sending the funds. I am not going to have there be a 3% conversion fee for the currency on top of a $60.00 fee. PLEASE find out by making a phone call to YOUR bank what the fee will be.

paypal is a flat rate of 3% and I can send in euros guaranteed, that's why I am just suggesting we bypass all of this nonsense with these banks - and it would be faster.

If you want me to send a transfer that's fine, but I want to know the fees on your side up front, not after.

I am a fair guy to do business with and I have been in this hobby a very long time.

all I am asking is that you find out exactly what the fee will be by calling your bank. I am trying to get you paid up but if it is going to be something ridiculous I need to know FIRST.

William Kramer

DH

Sent Today, 10:30 AM

William ,

This is my last message on this.

Will you pay me or not ?

I do not need to do anything when I sell a helmet , YOU are the buyer and you agreed to wire me fees included. It's not my fault you have an incompetent bank. Banks all work alike so it has nothing to do with how many people live in a community. I live in a 10.000 people community.Your bank can convert USD to euros and than you have your fees right in front of you.

I think you are just brushing this deal off and I will not take kindly to that.

all1knew

Sent Today, 10:36 AM

I will send you $1,555.00 tomorrow, that isn't trying to brush off the transaction.

anything else is on you then if you're not going to tell me your bank fees. It is not my responsibility to research your bank.

if I want to get out of the deal I would say so, but I'm not going to send more than 1165 euros (prior conversion) unless you tell me how much the conversion fee will be (post conversion)

basic question here: do you want to work with me and get this deal finished and I will send the transfer tomorrow or do you wish to end communication?

William Kramer

DH

Sent Today, 10:42 AM

It's pretty simple , as agreed I want to have 1165 euros on my account all fees on you.

If you cannot manage that the deal is cancelled and you are to blame for it and it's game over for you here on GHW2.

all1knew

Sent Today, 10:48 AM

but if you won't tell me your incoming transfer fee or the fee for the conversion how can I know how much to send you?

and you say game over for me here on the forum and threaten to ban me because you won't tell me what I need to know in order to get you the correct amount?

William Kramer

DH

Sent Today, 10:54 AM

William your bank should do the conversion and then you know exactly what it'll cost you.

I'm not going to call my bank just out of principle as I never ever had to do this with anyone and I have done business with people world wide for ten years.

Get it done or ungentlemanly bail out , you choose but I will ban your *** of the forum for wasting 2 months , wrecking my deal and wasting my evening.

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