The Republican Senate primary in Mississippi has become ground zero for the battle between the GOP establishment and the grassroots.
In one corner there is Sen. Thad Cochran, who first went to Washington in 1973 and has fallen in love with the smell of the marble on Capitol Hill. In the other is state Sen. Chris McDaniel, a conservative seeking to shake up the status quo.
McDaniel, 41, is the one conservative primary challenger who has a legitimate shot of taking down an incumbent Republican. He’s saying the right things on the campaign trail, pushing fiscal conservative ideas and constitutional principles that appeal to base voters in Mississippi.
What helps McDaniel’s case is that Cochran has become one of the most squishy Republican in the Senate. The long-time Senate Republican recently earned a dismal 63% rating from the American Conservative Union, far worse than GOP colleagues facing primary challengers.
It would seem that McDaniel’s message is making headway, though polling out of the state has been scant. The most recent poll, conducted by Harper Polling, found Cochran’s lead in the race has fallen to 17 points from 23 points in December. Other polls, however, have found that the race is within single digits.
McDaniel is the one candidate in this cycle around whom conservative groups have rallied. He has been endorsed by Club for Growth, FreedomWorks, RedState, SarahPAC, and Senate Conservatives Fund.
United Liberty chatted with McDaniel on Tuesday (Tax Day) about his bid to unseat Cochran and become Mississippi’s next United States senator. Other notable topics include Obamacare, foreign policy, privacy, and other instances in which he’s challenged the Republican establishment in Mississippi.
United Liberty: Hey guys, this is Jason Pye. Joining me today is Chris McDaniel, a Republican who is challenging Senator Thad Cochran in Mississippi. The primary is just 45 days away. Chris, is that right? June 3rd?
McDaniel: Yeah, June 3rd. That’s right.
UL: Well, thanks for joining me. I would wish you a happy Tax Day, but I don’t think most of us are smiling as we face higher taxes and a basically out-of-control IRS. So, have you filed your taxes yet? Got it all out of the way?
McDaniel: Yeah, I’ve got part of it out of the way. It’s never one of my favorite things, certainly. The government is struggling. We know it’s struggling. And this is a reminder each year just how bad things are. So things could be better, no question about that.
UL: I was looking through the CBO’s most recent budget projections and I’m seeing spending growing and growing and growing, and tax revenues are growing too. We don’t have a tax problem as much as the President and other Democrats would like to make it sound. We do have a spending problem. It seems with tax increases over the last few years, just a fraction of what President Obama wanted, just seems that the mindset in DC is more revenue, not less spending.
McDaniel: Yeah, those guys don’t ever have enough. That’s what it boils down to. And we have seen this time and time again over the years. The spending is a problem. And one of the reasons is the people of this country have been asleep for a long time. We’ve basically surrendered our rights of self-governance to that government a thousand miles away, so to speak. And they spend and they spend and they spend, and then they get us in these deficit situations, or, as it is now, $17.3 trillion in debt, with much more on the horizon. And then they tell us they need more revenue. No, what we need is more responsible people running the government.
People that are willing to make tough decisions to cut the spending as we’re demanding. And if we get that, if we bring real change to Washington, then you’ll see a resurgence of the American dream and prosperity.
UL: Well before we jump into the discussion about your primary — and I want to talk about that as much as possible, I know it’s one of the biggest, most hotly contested races in the cycle — I wanted to talk to you about Kathleen Sebelius. She resigned out of nowhere late last week. What are your thoughts on why she resigned, the Obamacare rollout, all of that.
McDaniel: Well, I’m sure it’s a confirmation of all the failures in the program. You know how it works, there’s always got to be someone who takes ultimate responsibility. But it really falls at the feet of President Obama. It’s his signature piece of legislation. We know it’s structurally unsound. There are many of us, despite the ruling of the Supreme Court, that still believe it’s unconstitutional. And I’m not surprised that someone had to resign or pay the price for this terrible program and the inability of it structurally to be sound and work at all. So I’m pleased to see the resignation.
UL: Any thoughts about her replacement, Sylvia Burwell? If you’re elected, you’re going to have to work with her for at least two years, or see her in this office or this position for two years. Have you studied her at all or anything like that?
McDaniel: Just a bit. I will put more research into her to understand her decision and understand where she’s from. But I really think I do already, her boss is Barack Obama. I think we know well what she stands for.
UL: As I mentioned, this race, you and Thad Cochran is one of the most interesting ones of the cycle. The establishment is not necessarily losing their minds, but they seem to be fretting. They’re shaking in their boots for sure. The race, it’s ground zero between the status quo and the grassroots. How are you distinguishing your approach to government to that of Thad Cochran?
McDaniel: Well, it certainly is a philosophical divide. There’s no questions about that. Senator Cochran’s been there for 42 years in Washington. He first arrived in DC when Richard Nixon was president, for goodness sakes. And he took with him an ideology that really isn’t conservative at all, because the core of what he believes, he believes in a large, powerful central authority, central government. And that’s what he’s been doing for years. He’s expanded the scope and size of government, he’s fought to spend more than almost anyone in the entire city of Washington DC over the years. In fact, he’s been the biggest earmarker there for many, many years. So, you talk about a divide here philosophically.
I’m a limited government, Reagan guy. I’m a Jefferson guy. I just believe that the central government’s trying to do too many things, that it’s taken on too many roles. And that’s one of the reasons we have so much debt, and so many problem with our economy. So, the position we take is, we want to send those powers back to the states and the people, respectively, in accordance to our Constitution, a document that we value very much. That’s the first big divide. And from a voting standpoint, a policy standpoint, that’s where it gets much more interesting.
UL: What specific votes has he made that you’re highlighting on the campaign trail, on the stump. What are you telling voters?
McDaniel: Oh, there’s so many. If these people were to dive into Senator Cochran’s record, you would see that no matter the issue, whether it’s foreign policy or fiscal policy or just a messy policy, he has not been a conservative. So naturally we start with Obamacare. He voted to fund it, not once, but twice. He’s had terrible votes on gun control. He’s increased the debt ceiling 13 times in the last ten years, to the tune of almost 8 trillion dollars.
So no matter where you go with his policy, you see these issues. He’s voted for amnesty, he voted not to build a border fence, he voted for higher taxes. And that includes just about every tax you can imagine. Whether it’s gas tax or internet tax or income tax. So it’s completely across the board. There’s no issue that he hasn’t been relatively liberal on.
UL: You mentioned foreign policy. What approach do you take on foreign policy?
McDaniel: Well, I’m much more prudent than the policy we’ve had in the last forty years. I’m not a big fan of the hyper-interventionism that we’ve seen. That Syria debate was a good place to start. I value the military. I’m from a military family. My grandfather served proudly. And we understand that if we truly love and value the military, that we can’t intervene in every conceivable civil war in the world. And that’s a good place to start, to talk about more prudent foreign policy, where we begin to respect our military men and women. And give them what they need, but not involve them in every single engagement.
UL: I mentioned the status quo and the grassroots earlier, and now we’re seeing this debate play out over foreign policy. You have the status quo — the Lindsey Grahams, the John McCains, the Thad Cochrans, so to speak — they’re calling the Rand Pauls, the Justin Amashs of the Republican Party “isolationists.” It’s a smear. It’s not true, because these guys believe in free trade. I assume you’re a free trader, I assume that when there is a threat, you’re willing to go. There’s no disparity there. You’re ready to go if there is a threat.
McDaniel: Well, sure, sure. Absolutely. The term they’re using is absolutely incorrect. It’s not isolationist at all. It’s just a much more prudent approach to foreign policy. And it’s one thing if American interests are immediately at stake, and American live are immediately at stake. It’s one thing to intervene, I suppose, at that point, but, the way we’ve been intervening is more problematic from my standpoint. I do somewhat resent the concept of isolationism. At least, that term they’re using, because I don’t think that’s what these men are calling for at all. I think they’re just trying to be more prudent.
UL: That seems to be one of the big hypocrisies of the Republican Party is that they talk about limited government and how we need to roll back the size and scope of government, yet this hyper-interventionism, as you called it, which is a great way to put it, it’s fundamentally inconsistent with limited government. And they don’t seem to understand that.
McDaniel: Yeah. They don’t. And that’s always concerned me greatly. We’re a big military family, from an incredible military state. We love our men and women in the military, and we want them to have everything that they need. But likewise, I think you could ask them — do you want to go engage yourself in every conceivable war or conflict, they’re going to tell you no. I want to be home with my family. I want to do my job. At the same time, I have responsibilities at home. So, we just have to be much more careful in the way we undertake ourselves in world affairs.
UL: Well, challenging the establishment doesn’t seem to be a new thing for you. I was doing some research on you — I was in Washington, DC for the last few days, and I was on my flight home yesterday and just trying to read up on you a little bit, and I noticed that you took on Haley Barbour over eminent domain after he vetoed a measure that would protect state property owners from Kelo-style takings. What drove you to push and fight Barbour on that issue?
McDaniel: Absolutely. Look, this isn’t about the cocktail parties, and it’s not about making friends necessarily. What it is about, however, is the will to fight for the Constitution and defend those principles that are eternal in my mind. And one of those principles is private property rights. And what we try to do in Mississippi is to reform our post-Kelo law, to make sure the government could not abuse the public use doctrine created in Kelo. In other words, we didn’t want Haley or anyone else taking [property] from one individual and then giving it to another individual unless it was a true public use.
Well, I had been up there two years, I was just a child it seemed, from that standpoint, and we fought Haley Barbour on that issue. I led the charge on that issue against Haley Barbour. And we tried to override his veto after we passed a bill despite his objections. He was able to win that fight, but later, we wont the day because we amended the state constitution and basically implemented these reforms that were needed. So, not afraid to fight, not afraid to stand, right is right, wrong is wrong, and we need courage to turn this state around.
UL: Speaking of constitutional issues, where are you on the Fourth Amendment, privacy issues and the current controversy over the NSA?
McDaniel: Well, I’m not a fan of the NSA at all. In fact, in this last legislative session in the Mississippi Senate, I introduce a Fourth Amendment Protection Act.
UL: Oh, the Tenth Amendment Center’s bill?
McDaniel: Absolutely. And that basically would have told our agencies to stand down and not participate with this data gathering, not participate with these abuses that we’re seeing via the NSA. What we recognize is this. The Fourth Amendment says what it says, it means exactly what it says, and the NSA’s doing everything it can to circumvent that amendment. And that’s simply not allowable in a free society. We have to defend the Fourth, just as we defend the Second, just as we defend the First, just as we defend the entire Constitution. I’m a big believer of the Fourth Amendment.
UL: I was walking around on Saturday in Washington DC, I was with one of my friends, and I see this etching on the side of the Justice Department and it says “When law ends, tyranny begins” or something like that. I thought it was interesting because we’re seeing a constant erosion of our civil liberties, whether it’s free speech, you have the IRS clamping down on, or trying to clamp down on free speech and silence outside conservative groups. Really, citizens joining together for like-minded purposes. You have gun control and the Second Amendment, you have the NSA and the Fourth Amendment, you have kelo-style takings in the Fifth Amendment. We can go on and on and on all the way to the Tenth Amendment, where states basically, the powers that are delegated to them, or reserved for them, are being absorbed by an overreaching federal government. I know your race isn’t necessarily a referendum on constitutional government, it may be in Mississippi specifically, but do you see a resurgence of those principles, not just in Mississippi but across the country?
McDaniel: Yeah. I think the race is a big part of that. I think that every issue we discuss touches, ultimately, on the Constitution and on the proper role of the federal government. And we point out that Article I, Section 8 is very specific. It gives the federal government every power it’s supposed to have, and when that government acts outside of those contours, we understand that it’s gone too far. And this government has gone too far. Not only in its spending and taxing, but also in its activities like the NSA and the IRS and even the NDAA from two years ago. It’s just things this government should not be doing, and it is doing. And it’s up for good people to take a stand and to remind them that they work for us. We don’t work for them. But our constitution is worth being defended and we will defend it.
UL: I got a couple more questions for you before we wrap up. Just about every Republican wants to repeal Obamacare, but collectively, the party has been light on alternatives. Yes, there have been alternatives presented, but they haven’t really coalesced around one. What specific alternatives, whether it be measures already introduced or a set of ideas would you push in the Senate?
McDaniel: Well, it comes with first principles. And the first principles are that these are the types of experimentations that should belong the states and the people, first and foremost. So we have to think of it in different terms.
Secondly, if we’re going to talk about really why it is we’re having problems in the healthcare arena, a big part of that is because of federal intervention. It’s because the fed has tinkered a bit too much over the years in this arena, and it’s created these distortions in the marketplace.
We have to find ways to allow the free market to work again. That does not include additional layers of steps to reenactment to additional healthcare regulations, it does not include new laws. And that’s why we’re always saying on the campaign trail that I’m not going up there to try to fix Obamacare or try to put a bandaid on it.
We’re going up there to get rid of it once and for all. And once we get rid of Obamacare, we’re going to start look at the other tweaks to make with the central government to make it more affordable across state lines due to competition, and portability and all these nice ideas the Heritage Foundation and others talk about. But ultimately, we have determined that part of the problem is too much interventionism. It’s too much government in this arena, and we need to scale that back and allow the free market to take over again.
UL: So you’re more free market. It’s so nice to hear more Republicans talk about the free market, they actually associate it with some specific ideas. Most Republicans in the establishment talk about pro-business, not free market. So it’s a nice thing to hear from a candidate.
McDaniel: Well, I believe in those things. I think we have a roadmap to prosperity. The Constitution works, the free market works. We’ve seen it works for 175 or 180 years before we began to basically intervene in so many areas with the central government. And then, all of a sudden, I don’t think it’s coincidental, that the prosperity did slow. America works, freedom works, and if you unleash people by getting government off their backs, you’ll see our economy take off again. I believe that.
UL: What do you have going on the next few days? I know the primary’s on June 3rd, and every time I look on twitter, I have a list of some of the liberty Republicans who are running this cycle and you’re on it, your Twitter account is probably one of the most active that I have on that list. So I know I saw that you’re going to be in Macon, Mississippi later today, is that right?
McDaniel: Yeah, we really haven’t stopped. My session ended a few days ago, I guess the first part of April. And since then we’ve been non-stop on the road. We’re in Tupelo today, we’ll be in Scott County, Mississippi this afternoon, then back to Jackson. Every day, it’s three or four stops, three or four speeches. Crowds are growing, momentum is growing, they’re surging down here.
The polls show us basically tied at this point with a 42-year incumbent, so we have an outstanding chance to do something big in Mississippi. And that’s one of the reasons you see some of this national press on the race. They feel it. They know that. And the establishment, they’re becoming desperate at this point, starting to get really nasty and getting really mean. And that’s okay, because we’re going to fight for what we believe, and we’ll see where the people want us to go.
UL: I do have a bone to pick with you, though. When I was looking through your twitter account the other day, I noticed that you guys had Mississippi State Bulldogs for Chris McDaniel. And I just want to let you know, there’s only one Bulldog in the SEC. And that’s the Georgia Bulldogs. Just putting that out there.
McDaniel: I love it. The SEC, we take our football very seriously. You’re right. Georgia has a pretty good football team over the years, but we have Bulldogs here in Mississippi as well.
UL: It’s always fun to talk about SEC football. It’s one of my passions. There’s Braves baseball and SEC football. And you guys have a minor league team for the Braves out there in Pearl, I think Pearl. The Mississippi Braves. But Chris, it’s been great talking to you. Do you have any final thoughts?
McDaniel: Absolutely. Listen, we’re going to fight for what we believe, we’re going to fight with courage, we’re going to be the type of party that Reagan requested us to be, and that’s a bold party of no pastels. And I just want you to join us. Come be a part of it. Mississippi is fertile ground for the conservative resurgence, it’s fertile ground for a liberty movement, and the people are listening. And that’s really exciting. Would it be okay if I gave my website?
UL: Absolutely.
McDaniel: Come visit us at McDaniel2014.com. It’s just McDaniel2014.com, and we’d love to have you in Mississippi. We’re looking for volunteers right now.
UL: Chris, thanks for joining us today. Best of luck to you, and we’ll be watching. Good luck.
McDaniel: Thanks for having me. Thank you very much.