Iki kiganiro nacyandukuwe gishyirwa kuri uru rubuga Umuvugizi kugirango icyo tuzakivugaho abantu bazajye bamenya aho bagikura. Iki kiganiro kandi kirimo inyigisho kuko hari ibyavugiwemo bitari bizwi, uretse ko ingengabitekerezo iri mu ugitegura nayo itihishira.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Mwaramukanye amahoro mwese mukurikira Imvo n’Imvano yo kuri uyu wa gatandatu, tariki 23/08/2014. Kuwa gatandatu w’icyumweru gishize, tariki 16/08/2014, Abanyarwanda babarirwa mu magana bahuriye muri Kiliziya ya Woluwe i Buruseli mu muhango bavuze ko wari uwo kwibuka ku nshuro ya mbere mu myaka 41 abanyapolitiki baharaniye ubwigenge bw’u Rwanda ariko bicwa mu buryo budasobanutse igisirikare kimaze guhirika ubutegetsi muri 1973 ubwo hari hashije imyaka 10 u Rwanda rwigenze. Leta yari iyobowe na Perezida Gregoire Kayibanda yahiritswe n’abasirikare bari barangajwe imbere n’uwari Minisitiri w’ingabo akaba n’umukuru w’ingabo Jenerali Majoro Habyarimana Juvenal ku itariki ya 05/07/1973. Igisirikare cyavuze ko cyahagaritse ubwo butegetsi kuko bwari bwananiwe kuyobora igihugu. Cyavuze ko guhirika ubutegetsi byari mu rwego rwo gutabara igihugu cyaganishwaga mu cyiswe icuraburindi. Abasirikari bakuru icumi bashyinze icyo bise Komite y’ubumwe n’amahoro yari ishyizwe gutabara igihugu no gukosora amakosa yakozwe n’abari bamaze guhirikwa.
Mu guhirika ubutegetsi bwa Kayibanda nta maraso yamenetse ahubwo hamenetse amaraso y’abanyepolitiki bayoboraga igihugu. Inkuru dukesha Imvaho yo mu Rwanda yasohotse ku itariki ya 08/07/1985 iravuga ko ubutegetsi bwiyise Repubulika ya kabiri bwakurikiranye abategetsi bari muri Repebulika yiswe iya mbere bubarega gukurura imvururu, maze burabafata bubageza mu rukiko rudasazwe rubacira imanza. Urwo rukiko rudasazwe rwaciriye imanza abantu 35 bose baje kwicwa mu cyasobanuwe ko byakozwe na Theoneste Lizinde n’abagenzi be. Iyo mvaho iravuga ko abo bantu bari bafungiye mu Ruhengeri ndetse hari n’abandi bari bafungiye ku Gisenyi bose bishwe bahohotewe. Babanje kwicishwa inzara n’inyota.
Iyo mvaho iravuga ko bamwe muri abo bantu bagiye bahambwa bataranogoka, bagahambwa ari bazima. Tariki ya 29/06/1974, Gregoire Kayibanda yakatiwe igihano cy’urupfu ariko Perezida Habyarimana amuha imbabazi, igifungo gihinduka burundu ndetse aza no kumwemerera gutaha iwe i Kavumu akaba ari ho yaguye mu mwaka w’1976 [Aho Mugenzi ashobora kuba yashakaga kuvuga umwaka w’1977].
Itangazo ryasohowe n’abateguye imihango yabereye i Buruseli mu Bubiligi ryavuze ko abo babyeyi babo cyangwa abavandimwe babo cyangwa abo bari barashakanye bishwe bunyamaswa. Ngo imiryango yabo ntiyigeze imenya irengero ry’imirambo yabo. Iryo tangazo ryavuze ko iyo mihango yari ukwera no kwirabura nyuma y’imyaka 41. Amakuru aravuga ko iyo mihango yateguwe mu ibanga kuko hari abanyarwanda batari bayishyigikiye.
Imvo n’Imvano yateguye iki kiganiro ibaza niba byari ngombwa gutegura uwo muhango, irabaza icyatumye abari bakwiye kwitwa intwari z’u Rwanda barahindutse ibicibwa.
Harabazwa kandi niba koko ubutegetsi bwa Gregoire Kayibanda bwari bwananiwe kuyobora igihugu. Byaba ari byo se koko igisirikare cyakuye igihugu mu nzira yaganaga mu icuraburindi?
Abatumire bacu ni Dr Yosefu Nkusi uri muri Norvege, yabaye umukozi mu biro bya Perezida Habyarimana, aba umwarimu muri Kaminuza ya Misurata muri Libya, aba umwarimu muri Kaminuza y’u Rwanda n’umushakashatsi muri Kaminuza aho ari muri Norvege. Twatumiye kandi Karake Canisius wakoze imirimo inyuranye mu bubanyi n’amahanga ku butegetsi bwa Perezida Kayibanda na Alphonse Munyandamutsa, umwana w’umwe mu bategetsi bishwe ku butegetsi bwa Habyarimana, akaba ari mu bateguye uwo muhango wabereye mu Bubiligi. Ikiganiro mwagiteguriwe na Ally Yusuf Mugenzi.
Reka duhere mu muhango wabereye mu Kiliziya ya Woluwe i Buruseli, mugenzi wacu Jean Claude Mwambutsa niwe waduhagarariye. [Aho Mugenzi ashobora kuba yaribeshye kuko ijwi atari irya Mwambutsa ahubwo ni irya Jean Claude Nkubito].
Jean Claude Nkubito: Amarira yatembaga ku matama ariko bamwenyura, bagahoberana banezerewe, mu Kiliziya ho humvikanaga no gutsikimba iyo berekanaga ifoto y’umunyepolitiki wishwe na Repebulika ya kabiri. Kuri bo, uyu munsi ngo wari nk’igisubizo kuri bimwe mu bibazo bamaze imyaka 41 bibaza. Eugene Ndahayo ni umuhungu wa Claver Ndahayo wari umunyamabanga mukuru w’inteko ishinga amategeko ku butegetsi bwa Gregoire Kayibanda.
Eugene Ndahayo: Nawufashe rwose nk’umunsi mukuru. Niyo mpamvu no mu ijambo nafashe nabwiye bagenzi banjye ko tutagomba kugira intimba. Hashize imyaka 41 nibwo bwa mbere twari tubonye uburyo bwo kugira ngo tube twakwibuka abacu ku mugaragaro. Kuri njye ni umunsi w’ibyishimo kubera ko byatumye nibura ngira impumeko ku mutima kubera ko nagize uburyo na bagenzi banjye duhuriye kuri ibyo byago byo kugira ngo twibuke abacu ku mugaragaro n’abantu bose babimenye kugira ngo iyo ntimba ituri ku mutima ibe yashyira.
Jean Claude Nkubito: Benshi mu bahitanwe na coup d’etat yo muri ’73 ni abanyepolitiki b’i Gitarama barimo n’uwahoze ari Perezida Kayibanda nyir’izina. Hakomeje kuvugwa umubare wa 53 ariko kuwa gatandatu amazina yasomwe yarengaga 60 harimo ndetse n’ay’abari n’abategarugori. Muri iyi myaka 41 yose ishize ngo ntawabo watinyutse kuvuga kubera gutinya amakuba kuri bo n’ababo. By’umuhariko ngo bibukaga ko ubwo ababo batwarwaga, imiryango yabo yasigaye ku misozi, yabujijwe kurenga komine idafite uburenganzira bwa Perezidensi ya Repebulika. Uwamahoro Ntakirutimana ni mwene Depute Gerard Muvunankiko, akaba yari yaje i Buruseli aturutse i Texas muri Amerika.
Uwamahoro Ntakirutimana: Twari turimo gukina mu gikari, tugiye kubona tubona abasirikare bari hejuru y’urugo ariko ntibatuvugisha. Noneho bahita bakomeza bajya kuri komine yacu kubonana na Burugumesitiri ubwo papa yari yagiye gusura ababyeyi be: papa na mama we bari bakiriho. N’uko iyo modoka y’abasirikare iragaruka, na papa agaruka atwaye abari imbere nabo bamukurikiye. Noneho baraza bageze mu rugo, papa yinjira mu rugo abwira mama ko agiye mu ihererekanyamirimo yakoraga, noneho abaza abasirikare ati: “se turajyana cyangwa nditwara?”
Ngo “oya Depute, turagutwara.” Ajya hagati umusikare umwe ajya hirya, undi ajya hino n’undi atwara imodoka baramujyana. Ku itariki ya 06/07/1973 kuva uwo munsi kugeza uyu munsi ntabwo twamenye aho bamujyanye, nta n’ubwo twamenye uko byamurangiranye. Icyo gihe nari mfite imyaka irindwi.
Jean Claude Nkubito: N’ubwo ariko ngo badashobora kwibagirwa ababo batazi uko bishwe n’aho bashyinguwe ngo nta nzika na nke bafitiye ababishe. Ngo icyo bifuriza buri munyarwanda wese wabuze uwe muri bene buriya buryo ngo ni uko yazabona akanya ko kumwibuka, akamwunamira kandi akamusubiza agaciro ka muntu.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Alphonse Munyandamutsa wabyumvise, wari muri uwo muhango bimwe mu bivuzwe na bagenzi bawe, mbanze nkubaze: hari impamvu yatumye muhitamo iriya tariki ya 16?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Urebye nta kintu gihambaye navuga twahereyeho tuyifata. Mbere twari twashatse gufata mu kwa Gatandatu kw’uyu mwaka ariko haba hari ababyeyi bafite abana bakiri mu ishuri noneho dushaka umunsi utanga ikiruhuko kinini ku buryo abantu bashobora kugenda kuko bagombaga kuza bavuye mu bihugu byinshi, bakabasha kubona umwanya wo kuruhuka, bakajya mu munsi mukuru bakazanasubira n’aho baturutse, bagasubirirayo igihe, ntihagire uwica akazi ke. Tugize Imana rero bihurirana nuko wari n’umunsi wo gusubira mu ijuru kwa Bikira Mariya, umunsi wa Assomption kandi benshi muri bariya bantu bacu bakaba bari abantu bagiye baba mu miryango nka Legion Maria biba amahire.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Hari impamvu mwabishakaga mu kwa Gatandatu? Hari aho bihuriye n’amateka y’u Rwanda cyangwa mwahise mu kwa Gatandatu gusa, mwashakaga ukwa Gatandatu gusa?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Ni uko hari week end ndende.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Biravuzwe rero mu nkuru ya Nkubito muri Kiliziya ya Woluwe ni imyaka 41 byarabaye. Igitekerezo cyo kubikora cyaje gute?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Igitekerezo ubundi umuntu aragihorana kuko burya umuntu wese upfushije atandukana n’undi uba ugiye mu isi ye nawe ugasigara mu yawe. Ubuzima bukongera bugakomeza, bukagenda. Iyo utabikoze abo bantu basa naho… muragumana. Baguma mu mitwe yanyu, ukomeza kubitekerezaho, ukabyibazaho ariko iyo ubikoze icyo kintu kiba kirangiye nubwo nta murambo waba ubonye ariko ukumva ko iki kirakozwe ni intangiriro y’ubundi buzima, bivuye mu nzira. Ni uko nguko igitekerezo buri wese wasangaga umwe ku ruhande rwe agifite undi ugasanga nawe ku ruhande rwe aragifite, abantu nabo rimwe na rimwe bakatubaza bati “Ariko mwebwe bite byanyu?” Hari ahubwo n’abantu baba batanazi ko abo bantu natwe tutazi ibyabo. Turavuga tuti “ok, ibi bintu il faut [birakwiye] ko biva mu nzira, bikarangira.”
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: None twumvise mu nkuru ya Nkubito avuga ko abantu baturutse hiryo no hino ku isi muhurira i Buruseli, hari abavuye ndetse mu majyepfo y’isi muri Newsland, abandi bava muri Australia, abandi bava muri Amerika, muza guhurira i Buruseli. Ubundi musazwe muziranye, mufite nk’ikintu cy’umuryango kibahuza, mumenyana gute?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Turaziranye. Mu gihe cy’amashyaka menshi twigeze gushaka kuba twatangiza umuryango nk’uyu nguyu kugira ngo tuzabaze icyo kibazo. Ubwo hari muri ‘93 niba nibuka. Nyuma hazamo intambara, abantu barongera bagenda batatana batya ariko iyo umenye umwe, iyo ugize Imana usanga afite address y’undi akaba yayiguha, mukabasha kongera kuganira, ni uko nguko.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ni ikintu rero mushaka ko kizahoraho cyangwa mwibutse rimwe birarangira?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Muri rya tangazo harimo ibintu bitatu: icya mbere ni uguherekeza abantu bacu n’amasengesho kuko abenshi bari bafite ukwemera harimo umuyisilamu, harimo abadiventisiti n’abagatolika nibo benshi. Ubwo dukurikije ukwemera kwabo twagombaga kubaherekeza n’amasengesho. Iyo niyo yari ingingo ya mbere. Ingingo ya kabiri kwari ugukora nk’uko umuco wacu ubidusaba. Umuco wacu wa kinyarwanda udutegeka yuko iyo umuntu apfushije, arabika, abantu bakamutabara, bagashyingura barangiza bakayaga, bagatandukana na nyakwigendera, akajya mu isi ye nabo bakaguma mu yabo. Ibyo ngibyo byo navuga ko twarabikoze. Ingingo ya gatatu yari mu itangazo ivuga ko dushaka kumenya ukuri kuri biriya bintu kandi kubera ko n’abantu bacu bishwe urubozo, bunyamaswa tukumva ikintu cyitwa icyubahiro cy’ikiremwamuntu ku bibareba, cyarangiritse ku buryo bukabije. Ibyo bintu ntabwo ari ibintu bikwiye kuzongera kubaho mu bantu. Tukaba twumva ko mu buryo bwo kugira ngo tubagarurire icyubahiro cyabo twerekana ibyo bintu bibi bakorewe n’abantu nabo bakabona ingaruka z’ibintu bibi aho zigeza abantu. Ni ikintu kirekire udashobora kuvuga ngo uriya munsi twakigezeho. Amakuru dukeneye ntabwo yose tuyafite. Tugomba kujya mu bantu kugira ngo tuyegeranye tubashe kuyashyikiriza abantu bakeneye kuyamenya kuko hari abandi nabo bafite ayo mabanga mabi. Ni umuzigo kuri bo. Bakeneye ukuntu bakwiruhutsa, aho gukomeza kuba imbohe z’ayo mabanga adakeye. Natwe tukaba twari imbohe zo kudatandukana n’abacu kubera ko burya umuntu wese ni ko akoze: wibagirwa ikintu wabashije kumenya, naho iyo utakimenye buri gihe gihora kigaruka, ukumva ushaka kukimenya, ushaka kukimenya ariko iyo ubashije kukimenya ubasha no kwibagirwa.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ni byo navugaga, muzakomeza mubikore cyangwa…, muzabigenza gute?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Turacyakora …ntabwo ari organise neza. Nta organisation dufite.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Uri kumwe na Doctor Nkusi, Doctor Nkusi wari mu Rwanda ubutegetsi bwa Kayibanda buhirikwa. Kayibanda na bagenzi be barafatwa, baza gucirwa urubanza. Bicwa cyangwa bapfa wari mu Rwanda; tubwire Doctor, byari byifashe gute kuko aha igisirikare kiravuga ko Kayibanda yari yananiwe. Byari ngombwa ko bahirika ubutegetsi. Byari byifashe gute icyo gihe, Doctor?
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Ibintu byari bimeze nabi cyane. Kuva mu kwezi kwa Gashyantare 1973 kugeza muri Kamena 1973 habaye ubugizi bwa nabi mu Rwanda: abatutsi baricwa mu mashuri, abandi barameneshwa bahungira i Burundi, abandi bahungira mu miryango yabo. Ibyo ngibyo byagiye biba no muri za minisiteri no mu bigo bya leta. Ubwo rero kuvuga ko Kayibanda yari yananiwe na none ntabwo twavuga ko Kayibanda yari yananiwe, urumva umutekano wari umeze nabi ariko ikibazo uwo mutekano wo kumera nabi twawushyira kuri Kayibanda cyangwa twawushyira ku bari bariho bakora n’ibyo bikorwa by’urukozasoni: bica, bahungisha, batoteza. Urugero naguha, abantu bari bashinzwe umutekano w’igihugu wari mu maboko y’abantu twavuga bane aribo Jenerali Majoro Habyarimana Juvenal, yari Minisitiri w’ingabo akaba umugaba mukuru w’ingabo na polisi; hakaba Coloneli Kanyaregwe Alexis, yari umuyobozi w’ibiro by’iperereza; hakaba Majoro Nsekarije Aloys, yari umuyobozi mukuru wa polisi; hakaba Komanda Lizinde Theoneste, yari umuyobozi w’ibiro by’imishinga. Aba rero urabona nibo bari bafite umutekano w’igihugu mu biganza byabo kandi nk’uko tuza kubibona ni nabo bari ku isonga y’abakoze coup d’etat.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ariko abo ngabo ni abakoze ba leta, kizigenza yari Perezida Kayibanda niba bamurega bati “wananiwe” birashoboka ko Kayibanda yari faible, nta mbaraga yari afite?
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Ananirwa kandi… icyo tureba kuva muri Gashyantare kugeza muri Kamena, ni ukuvuga kuva mu kwezi kwa Kabiri kugeza mu kwezi kwa Gatandatu biriya bintu byagiye biba by’ubwicanyi no gutoteza, biriya twavuga ko ari aba bantu bari bashyizwe umutekano nibo babipanze ntabwo ari Kayibanda.
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Hari icyo nakongeraho?
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Buretse gato. Ntabwo ari Kayibanda, hari ikinyamakuru nasomaga hano, ijambo yavuze iminsi ine mbere y’uko bamuhirika, yavuze ngo, ababwira ngo “niba mushaka gukora coup d’etat, muyikore!”, wari uhari aho ngaho icyo gihe Doctor Nkusi?
Dr Yosefu Nkusi:: Icyo gihe cyo kuvuga ngo abashaka gukora coup d’etat bayikore hari kuri stade i Nyamirambo hari ku itariki ya 01/07/19973 ni ukuvuga Nyakanga yakurikiraga iriya Kamena yari azi kuva mu kwezi kwa Kabiri kugeza mu kwezi kwa Gatandatu ibyari biriho biba byose. Byose yarabikurikiranaga n’ubwo atashoboye kubihagarika ariko yari afite amakuru y’uko hari coup d’etat irimo itegurwa.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Abivuga ku mugaragaro mu kwizihiza isabukuru y’ubwigenge?
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Byatewe n’iki? Byatewe n’uko mu gihe yari afashe ijambo, arimo avuga, micro barayikupye: ni ukuvuga nta muriro waciye muri micro. Ijwi ntabwo ryumvikagana. Nicyo cyamuteye uburakari rero aravuga ati “ibyo ngibyo mukora, niba ari coup d’etat mushaka gukora mwayikoze, ko nta bwoba mfite.”
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Alphonse Munyandamutsa, wari usabye ijambo?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Wari ubajije niba koko Perezida Kayibanda atari ananiwe abasirikare bakaba byari mu kuri gukora iyo coup d’etat ikibazo aho kiri nuko abapolisi n’abasirikare ubundi ni inzego z’ubutegetsi. Nizo umuntu yavuga ngo ni amaso, amatwi ziba zirebera ubwo butegetsi ahubwo niba zitagikorera leta nubwo baba bambaye imyenda ya leta, umuntu ari Minisitiri w’ingabo cyangwa se undi ari umukuru wa Polisi, undi akaba ari ushizwe surete [iperereza] ntakore akazi ke, yego aba yambaye imyenda ya leta, ari mu kazi ka leta, anahembwa na leta, ibyo akora, leta ni responsable ariko hari nyiri ugukora icyo cyaha kuko iyo ushizwe ikintu uba ugishinzwe ariko haba hari n’uri coupable, nyiri gukora ikosa neza uwo ariwe.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ariko aha aba basirikare bo baravuga ko nta kosa bakoze: leta yari yananiwe kuyobora igihugu?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Muge, reka nkubaze, tuvuge abanyeshuri bavuye nk’i Butare bagiye kwica abanyeshuri cyangwa abaturage ku Kibuye; aho hose hari abasirikare, hari na polisi; ari polisi ntiyigeze ibimenya ari na surete ntabwo bigeze barabukwa; ese nta kosa riba ryahabaye koko?
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Singusubiza, njyewe nta gisubizo mfite, wenda igisubizo turakibona ku mugabo muri kumwe mu kiganiro, Canisius Karake yari ahari, yari ku butegetsi bwa Kayibanda, yarabibonye; n’ubwo yakoze cyane mu bubanyi n’amahanga ariko yari ahari. Bwana Canisius Karake; ibi bivugwa, kuko turavuga icyo gihe mbere yo guhirika ubutegetsi, igisirikare kiravuga ko bwari bwananiwe icyo gihe uri mu Rwanda wabonaga koko ko leta wakoreraga iganishaga igihugu mu icuraburindi?
Canisius Karake: Urakoze Mugenzi kumpa ijambo nagira ngo nongere nkwibutse ko icyo gihe cya 73 itangira ntari mu Rwanda ahubwo nari mu Bufaransa aho nari mpagarariye u Rwanda uretse ko amakuru nayabonaga nyahawe n’abavaga i Kigali bajya mu mahanga bakanyura i Paris cyangwa se amabaruwa twabonaga n’inzandiko ziturutse muri minisiteri y’ububanyi n’amahanga batubwira uko mu Rwanda byifashe.
Nagira ngo unyemerere gato ariko mbere yuko nkomeza nshimire bariya bana kiriya gikorwa bakoze cyo kwibuka ababyeyi babo kandi nabashimire ko natwe baduhaye umwanya wo kwibuka ziriya nzirakarengane iriya tariki yari itegerejwe igihe kirekire cyane, urumva ni imyaka 41. Nyuma rero ngarutse kuri icyo kibazo cy’uko mu Rwanda byari bimeze: ikibazo cyacu kirakomeye cyane, ikibazo cy’u Rwanda kirakomeye cyane: kuvuga ngo Kayibanda yari ananiwe ni ibintu by’urwitwazo. Ni ibintu by’urwitwazo. Hari umugani mu Gifaransa bavuga nawushyira mu Kinyarwanda usa n’uvuga ko “iyo ushaka gukubita imbwa yawe utabura inkoni yo kuyikubita”. Bambabarire abumva Ikinyarwanda kuko ntabwo ngereranya n’ibyabaye kuri Kayibanda ahubwo ndashaka kuvuga ibyabaye muri ariya mezi avuga yo kuva muri Gashyantare kugeza muri Nyakanga 1973.
Kuvuga ngo Kayibanda yari ananiwe; imbaraga za Kayibanda ni izihe? Imbaraga za Kayibanda ko ari inzego z’ubutegetsi, ko ari abo yashyizeho kugira ngo bamurebere muri izo nzego z’ubutegetsi nk’uko Munyandamutsa yabivuze hakaba hariho Jenerali Habyarimana wari Minisitiri w’ingabo akaba n’umukuru w’abasirikare, hakaba Nsekarije wari umukuru w’abapolisi, hakaba Lizinde ndetse ahubwo ni uko mu butegetsi bw’igihugu mwibagirwa ko hari na Minisitiri w’ubutegetsi akagira n’ubucamanza mu maboko ye kandi umutekano mu gihugu ntabwo ugengwa n’abasirikare gusa, hari imvururu zihoshwa n’abapolisi n’abaturage. Uwo Minisitiri w’ubutegetsi bw’igihugu n’ubucamanza niwe wategekaga amakomini n’amaperefegitura.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Uwo yari nde?
Canisius Karake: Ndakeka yuko yari Sebatware. Ntabwo rero byumvikana ukuntu ibintu nka biriya byaba; umumisitiri ufite abaperefe, akagira ababugumesitiri bategekaga amakomini ayo mashuri yubatsemo, ntahagire ikintu amenya, ntihagira icyo afata mu byerekeye gutunganya imirimo ashyizwe noneho bikitirirwa yuko ari Kayibanda wari unaniwe. Kunanirwa kwa Kayibanda ni ukwitwaza kugira ngo abantu batakurikiranaga ibyo mu Rwanda wenda bemere ibyabaye kubera ko hari nka telegaramu Perezidensi y’iriya komite yiswe ngo ni iy’ubumwe n’amahoro yatanze iyoherereza ab’ambasaderi bose bari bahagarariye u Rwanda. Iyo telegaramu yaratubwiraga ngo “ingabo z’igihugu zafashe icyemezo cyo guhagarika Perezida Kayibanda na leta ye kugira ngo abashatse gukora amarorerwa yo guteza imvururu mu gihugu batamugusha mu makosa, ngo kandi Perezida Kayibanda azakomeza guhabwa icyubahiro cye yari asanganwe kandi azagenerwa n’icyo kumutunga n’abakozi bo kumufasha mu mirimo ye mu rugo iwe.” Iyo telegaramu yaratanzwe, ambasaderi wese wari uhagarariye u Rwanda yarayibonye. Ubwo bwari ubutumwa mu by’ukuri bashakaga mu buryo bwa kidiplomasi ngo tubwire abatubaza b’ibihugu duhagarariyemo u Rwanda ko ibyabaye mu Rwanda ari ibintu bidakanganye cyane nk’ibiba ahandi, ko uwari umukuru w’igihugu afite icyubahiro cye, nk’uko abandi bakuru b’ibihugu bavaho, bagakomeza kubahwa, urumva rero iyo ugereranyije n’ibyakurikiye iyo telegaramu nta kuri kurimo. Nakubwiraga kuri icyo kibazo cy’umutekano muke no kuvuga ngo Kayibanda yari ananiwe.
Ikindi nakubwira ariko nguha gusa inzira zo kugira ngo abazashaka gukora ubushakashatsi kuri kiriya kibazo nacyo bazakirebe, mumbabarire ntabwo ndibugitindeho cyane kubera impamvu: ni uko ririya hirikwa rya Perezida Kayibanda ntabwo ryatewe n’ibyabaye muri 1973 kuva muri Gashantare kugeza muri 1978, ririya hirikwa ryateguwe kuva mu kwezi kwa Gatanu muri 1968 ariko kubera impamvu zariho, uko u Rwanda rwari ruhagaze, uko Abanyarwanda bari bahagaze bizeye ubutegetsi bwabo, ntabwo byatumye abateganya guhirika ubutegetsi babigeraho ahubwo biyemeje gukora gahunda yo kugira ngo igihe kizagere bitabaruhije.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ubwo uravuga ba Habyarimana n’abagenzi be?
Canisius Karake: Hari abandi se bahiritse ubutegetsi? Ni abo ngabo kandi ni aho ngaho ngejeje kuri icyo kibazo gusa.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Uri kumwe na Doctor Nkusi. Doctor, uruhare rw’ibihugu bituranye n’u Rwanda ku butegetsi bwa Kayibanda, umubano ntabwo wari wifashe neza ku buryo hari abavuga ko byagize ingaruka mu guhirika ubutegetsi bwe, mu bushakashatsi bwawe, wowe ubibone gute, Doctor Nkusi?
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Ndagira ngo nsubire ruguru gato ngire icyo nkwunganira gato ku kibazo wigeze kubaza uti “leta yari iyobowe na Kayibanda yari yananiwe”. Ikibazo: leta ni nde? Kuko bariya ba Koloneli Kanyaregwe, Jenerali Majoro Habyarimana Juvenal, Majoro Nsekarije Aloys urebye imyanya bari bafite mu gihugu mu butegetsi ahubwo nibo bari bagize iyo leta. Niba leta yari yananiwe rero ni ukuvuga ko aribo bari bananije iyo leta.
Ikindi navuga, uwo mugenzi wanjye amaze kuvuga ikintu cyerekeye iriya telegaramu. Ku itariki ya 05/07/1973, itangazo bacishije kuri radio ryasaga n’iyo telegaramu arimo avuga. Baravuze ngo, ndakeka ko iryo tangazo ryasomwaga na Lizinde ngo “uwari Perezida Kayibanda twashimye na n’ubu tugishimira yari agiye kugwa mu maboko y’abanzi b’igihugu.” Na none ikindi gitangaje ni iki? Kerekana ko uko kunanirwa bavuga ntakwari guhari ni uko muri ayo matangazo yose bagiye bacishaho ntabwo bigeze berekana aho kunanirwa kwa Kayibanda kuri.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ariko ntabwo byari ngombwa kubyerekana kuko byarigaragazaga, imvururu, mwari mumaze kuvuga abatutsi bari barimo kwicwa mu mashuri, abandi bakurwa ku kazi, si ngombwa kubivuga, buri muntu yarabibonaga?
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Buretse gatoya, buretse gatoya, ngiye kukubwira ijambo rivuguruza iryo ngiryo umaze kuvuga. Amagambo bagarukaga kenshi cyane baravugaga ngo “Twanze ubwikanyize bw’akarere kamwe, twanze abihaye gukandagira ab’ahandi nk’aho bo nta gaciro bagira. Iryo jambo ryamaze ukwezi kwose rivugwa kuri radio Rwanda. None se iryo jambo hari aho rihuriye n’izo mvururu uvuga?
Noneho nsubize ikibazo cyawe rero: imibano na Kayibanda n’ibihugu duhana imbibi, duhere kuri Tanzaniya: umubano wa Tanzaniya kwa Mwarimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere wayoboraga Tanzaniya wari mwiza cyane. Yari afite umubano mwiza na Perezida Kayibanda. Umubano hagati ya Michel Micombero w’u Burundi, umubano wari umeze nabi, akenshi bigaterwa n’impunzi z’abatutsi b’Abanyarwanda bari barahungiyeyo kuva u Rwanda rumaze kubona ubwigenge, bariya bari barahungiye i Burundi batangiye gutera u Rwanda mu kwezi kwa Cumi, ni ukuvuga nyuma y’amezi atatu gusa.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Bariya ni Inyenzi uvuga, sibyo?
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Ni abiyise Inyenzi.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ni abiyise Inyenzi niko bitwa, yeah.
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Yeee, ngo ni Ingangurarugo ziyemeje kuba ingenzi. Abo bateye u Rwanda kuva mu kwezi kwa Cumi muri 1962 kugeza muri 1967, ubwo urumva u Rwanda rwahanganye n’ibyo bitero by’Inyenzi akenshi byabaga biturutse i Burundi. Bateye za Nshili, batera mu Bugesera, batera hariya muri za Cyangugu. Noneho tujye muri 1972, ‘72 rero haza kuba ubwicanyi, Micombero yica abahutu noneho biba ngombwa ko abahutu benshi bahungira mu Rwanda b’abarundi noneho haza kubaho ikintu cyo guhangana, guhangana hafi mbega no kurwana, twari dufite ubwoba yuko ibihugu bishobora no kurwana. Haza guterana amagambo no gutukana ku maradio. Radio Rwanda bagacishaho ijambo rivuga ngo “icyo gicuma ngo ni radio Bujumbura”. Ubundi mu Rwanda bakavuga ngo “wowe Micombero n’icyo gifura ngo ni Simbananiye. [Simbananiye yari ashizwe ubutegetsi bw’igihugu mu Burundi icyo gihe], niyo mwarara mwica abahutu, bugacya mwica, ntabwo mushobora kurangiza bahutu kugeza igihe isi izashirira.”
Noneho tujye muri Zaire ya Mobutu, Mobutu nawe ntabwo yari ameranye neza na Kayibanda ariko bitameze nk’ibyo by’i Burundi. Harimo ibintu byo gusuzugurana, byo guhangana ariko hatari icyo cyuka kiremereye.
Ubugande kugeza igihe FPR itereye, Ubugande ni nkaho tutagiye tububona cyane muri politiki y’u Rwanda. Ni Abanyarwanda bake bari bazi ko bunariho. Ndakeka ko ari nabyo byaduteye ibibazo kugeza na n’ubungubu.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ni nde usaba ijambo? Alphonse? Reka Karake avuge kuko ikibazo nari mfite ni icyawe Alphonse, reka muzehe Karake avuge hanyuma nkubaze, kuko hari ikibazo nshaka kukubaza.
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Ok.
Canisius Karake: Nagira ngo kuri icyo kibazo ubajije cy’uko u Rwanda rwari rumeranye n’ibihugu rwari ruturanye narwo na n’ubu bigituranye mbere ya 1973, ibyo Dogiteri Nkusi avuze harimo ukuri ariko harimo ibintu bigomba kumvikanaho, ikinteye gufata ijambo kuri iki kibazo ni uko wavuze ko nahagarariye u Rwanda, nakoze muri Tanzaniya mpamara imyaka itatu, nahavuye njya i Burundi naho mpamara imyaka itatu ku buryo nagize ibyago byo kuba nari mpari muri kiriya gihe cya 1972 ubutegetsi bwa gisirikare bwa Micombero bwica abahutu baho.
Hari n’ikiganiro, wibuka, nigeze kukubwira, tuvuganye, nsubiza Simbananiye wavugaga yuko Perezida Kayibanda yohereje abahutu 300 bo kwica abatutsi b’i Burundi, nasobonuye abo bantu yitaga abahutu 300 abo ari bo.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Bari bande? Nubwo ari ugutandukira, pfa kubivuga!
Canisius Karake: Bari abanyeshuri b’abanyarwanda bigaga mu ishuri rya secondaire rya hantu hirya mu Kivoga i Burundi b’abadiventiste, bari abakozi bakoraga mu biro bishyizwe ‘education nationale’ mu Burundi no mu Rwanda by’abadeventiste, bari abanyeshuri b’abanyarwanda bigaga kaminuza i Bujumbura kuko mu mubano w’ibyerekeranye amashuri u Burundi muri universite nta bigaga ubuganga bagiraga noneho u Rwanda rwemera ko bazajya baza kwiga hariya i Butare, nta na faculte de droit mu Rwanda yahabaga, Uburundi bwemera yuko baza kuhiga uretse ko kuva muri icyo gihe cya 1972 ku byabaye ntabwo bongeye gukomeza. Ubwo rero nashakaga kukubwira ko hari ibintu byagiye biba kandi byatangiye kera, nibyo nakubwiye, biturutse ku bihugu duturanye, urabo Uburundi bwategekwaga n’umusirikare, Kongo itegekwa n’umusirikare, ariyo yahindutse Zaire, Habyarimana ngira ngo hari ukuntu yarebaga ukumva ko nawe agomba kuba muri iyo club y’abasirikare bayobora ibihugu byabo. Hazaboneka igihe cyo gusobanura ibyabaye ariko rero ndagira ngo abumva iki kiganiro bamenye ko Habyarimana nawe afite abamugiye inyuma, bakagerageza kumushishikariza kuvanaho ubutegetsi bwa Kayibanda uretse wenda igihe babikorereye bwa mbere basanze ubutegetsi bukomeye nawe abasubiza ko atabishobora kubera yuko ubutegetsi bushingiye ku baturage, banavanyeho ubutegetsi abaturage ntabwo batuma bategeka. Nicyo navugaga niba Nkusi agikomeza, yakomeza!
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Oya, reka ijambo ndihe Alphonse Munyandamutsa; Munyandamutsa, wari wasabye ijambo ndavuga nti ndariguha ariko hari ikibazo nari naguteguriye ubwo uravuga ibyo washakaga kuvuga, nkubaza nti “abantu 12 baraburanishijwe, barahanwa, bamwe bahanishwa urupfu, kuki muvuga ko ari nta butabera bwabaye ku babyeyi banyu?”
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Mbere kuri icyo gisubizo noneho nze kugaruka
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Oya wenda wahera ku cyo washakaga kuvuga kuko wari wafashe ijambo hanyuma ujye ku gisubizo cyawe
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Ok. Icyo nagira ngo mbanze mvuge, ni uko biriya byo kuvuga ngo impamvu yagaragazaga ko Kayibanda yaba yari ananiwe ngo zari ziriya mvururu. Iyo ziba koko izo mvururu kandi ariwe bazitirira nyir’izina abasirikare ntibari gufata ubutegetsi ngo nibamara gufata ubutegetsi bafungure abantu bari barafatiwe izo mvururu kimwe n’abakozi bari barabaye bahagaritswe igihe enquetes zari zikirimo zikorwa kugira ngo iby’izo mvururu bikemuke bakagarurwa mu kazi. Ikindi kandi abatutsi bari barahunze, abo banyeshuri ntibagarurwe mu mashuri, icyo gihe ntabwo wavuga ngo izo mvururu zaba ziri kuri Kayibanda cyangwa se zateguriraga abo bantu kuza ku butegetsi? Aho ngaho ni ukuzimwitirira ariko mu by’ukuri aribo zifitiye inyungu. Umuntu akaba yumva ko harimo ikintu cy’uburiganya. Ikindi kintu nagira ngo mvuge na none ni kubirebana n’uriya mutekano kikaba kijyanye n’iriya tariki ya 01/07/1973 aho wavugaga uti Kayibanda avuga ati “niba mushaka gukora coup d’etat, nimuyikore!” En fait [mu by’ukuri] no kugira ngo abivuge iriya coup d’etat y’uwa gatanu Nyakanga yari iya gatatu: iya mbere yari yaraburijwemo ku itariki ya 12/03, iya kabiri iburizwamo kuri 19 z’ukwa Gatanu
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Aho uravuga 1973?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Oui, oui [yego, yego]
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Iburizwamo nande ubwo?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Leta. Noneho iriya y’uwa gatanu Nyakanga no kuri iriya tariki y’umunsi wa mbere Nyakanga hari n’abantu bari bazi ko hari bube coup d’etat kuko hari n’abantu bagiye batagiye mu modoka zisanzwe, officiels kubera uko kwikanga coup d’etat. Iza kuba rero iyabaye ari iya gatatu, kuvuga ngo “niba mushaka gukora coup d’etat, muyikore!” urumva byari muri icyo cyuka.
Biriya by’umubano: umubano wagendaga neza ni uwa Tanzaniya n’u Rwanda ariko uwa Tanzaniya n’u Rwanda nawo hajemo ikibazo mu gihe cy’imvururu Nyerere nawe yigeze kugira igihe akeka ko Kayibanda yaba abifitemo uruhare koko amwoherereza na Minisitiri Nyaki ndakeka ari ko yitwaga, akora tournee [azenguka] mu gihugu kugira ngo nawe yirebere abone ko koko ibyo Minisitiri Simbananiye yabaga arimo ashinja Kayibanda ko ari byo. Umubano w’Ubugande nawo hari harimo ikibazo kuva mu kwa Munani 1972, Idi Amin yari yarahaye u Rwanda ultimatum: ababwira ko azabatera kubera Abahinde bari baramuhunze bamuhungira mu Rwanda yifuzaga ko babirukana. Ubwo Kongo byasaba n’aho bimeze neza. Ikibazo kinini cyari kiri ku Burundi: Uburundi muri ibi bibazo by’umubano, usibye iby’amoko byari byarabaye muri ’72, mu kwa Gatanu muri 1973 hari impunzi z’Abarundi zabaga mu Rwanda. Izo mpunzi zateye mu Burundi ku itariki ya 11 z’ukwa Gatanu nibwo leta yabimenye ko bazatera, bamenyesha Uburundi ariko Uburundi ugasanga bari babiziranyeho ahubwo na Habyarimana. Habyarimana aho kugira ngo atange ingabo zo gukumira impunzi ziri muri za camps ahubwo akarushaho gusembura, akoresheje akadege gatoya, yagiye mu kirere hejuru y’Uburundi, Abarundi ubwo ngubwo bagaterana amagambo n’Abanyarwanda, arongera bukeye akoresha indege ya kajugujugu, bikongera bigasesa umubano.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ubwo uravuga ryari? Yari atarafata ubutegetsi cyangwa yarabufashe ubutegetsi?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Oya. Yari atarabufata. Ubwo byari kuri [ku itariki ya] 12 nibwo bafashe message yuko bazatera.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: 12 z’ukuhe kwezi, umwaka wuhe?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Ukwa Gatanu 1973.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ubwo uravuga abahutu bari mu Rwanda b’Abarundi?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Yego. Barateye. Bamwe bateye baturutse i Butare, abandi batera buturutse mu Bugesera.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Batera i Burundi?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Batera i Burundi. We [Habyarimana] rero akagenda avuga ngo arimo arareba aho izo colonnes z’impunzi ziri.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: None Simbananiye ngira ngo niwe wigeze kuvuga ko, mu kiganiro twagiranye, wowe uravuga ko ari impunzi ariko aravuga ko ari u Rwanda?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Justement [yego nyine] Abarundi ibyo bavugaga babiregaga u Rwanda ariko ushobora no kubirega u Rwanda kuko ntabwo bigeze bazikumira, nko ku munsi wo kuzikumira Minisitiri Bizimana na Shirampaka bari mu Bugesera nk’urugero, bageze ubwo mu masaa kumi n’ebyeri bagomba kwaka abasirikare quand meme hari Minisitiri w’ingabo byari muri attributions ze [mu nshingano ze] ariko ntabwo yari yigeze aza kugira ngo bagote izo mpunzi zitagenda, ziratera noneho mu gitondo undi azinduka arenga umupaka w’Uburundi d’abord [bwa mbere] mu ndege, ubwa kabiri muri kajugujugu. Ibyo ntabwo byari kugira ingaruka nziza ku mubano w’u Rwanda n’Uburundi.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ariko na none biragaragaza faiblesses, biragaragaza imbaraga nkeya umuperezida yari afite, niba umuminisitiri ashobora gufata indege, akavogera igihugu cy’abandi, perezida ari aho, bigaragaza ko Kayibanda nta mbaraga yari afite?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Ni Minisitiri w’ingabo zawe, niwe urimo ubikora.Wamugira ute?
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Wamwirukana.
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Surtout que [cyane ko] mu kwa Gatatu, ubundi yari yirukanye Kanyaregwe na Nsekarije mu mpera z’ukwa Gatatu.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ba uretse! Ibyo ngibyo ndabizaho, ndabizaho, subiza ikibazo nari nkubajije cy’abantu baciriwe imanza 12: Lizinde n’abagenzi be. Nari nkubajije nti ‘abantu 12 baraburanishijwe, barahanwa, bamwe bahanishwa urupfu, kuki muvuga ko ari nta butabera bwabaye?’
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Non! [oya!] Ukuntu byagenze: hafashwe abantu, abazwi kuko hari n’abatazwi, 65 noneho ku itariki ya 12 z’ukwa Gatandatu, imanza ziratangira; ku itariki ya 02 z’ukwa Karindwi imanza zari zirangiye, z’ukwa karindwi muri uwo mwaka, muri ’74 donc [ni ukuvuga] kuva ku itariki ya 12 kugeza ku itariki ya 02 muri ’74: ni ukuvuga ko abo bantu bose bari bamaze kuburana, bahita banasomerwa, urukiko ruhita runaseswa, hari n’abandi batigeze barangiza, akanyundo gatangira kuvuga. Urumva urwo rwari urukiko?
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Urwo ni urukiko rwakatiye ababyeyi banyu, ariko nyuma urukiko rwo mu Ruhengeri rwaje kuburanisha abahemukiye ababyeyi banyu, ndavuga Lizinde, Biseruka, ba Cyarahani n’abandi bose?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Ok, ntabwo nari nabyumvise: iki ngiki mu by’ukuri Lizinde yari umukuru ushizwe iby’iperereza, Lizinde nta ngufu yari afite zo kwica bariya bantu adafite uruhushya.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ba uretse gato, abo nakubwiraga, nakubwira Lizinde Théoneste, Sembagare Theodomir, Biseruka Stanislas, Butsitsi Alphonse, Bizirande André, Cyarahani Petero Desideri, Sebahunde Yohani Maurice, Ntibandeba Yohakim, Ndegeya Alphonse, Nkundabagenzi Paul Secyugu, Mpanumusingo Desideri, Rimenyurifite Philippe, abo ngabo 12 nkubwira, barakatiwe baregwa ko barenganyije ababyeyi banyu, mwebwe murakomeza kuvuga ko nta butabera bwabaye?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Non, non [oya, oya] kuko Lizinde nta bushobozi yajyaja kugira usibye ko iyo bagiye kuvuga baravuga.ngo yari afite ingufu..bamukabiriza ingufu atari afite kuko Habyarimana agiye kumufata nta n’urusasu na rumwe rwavuze ngo yiyopoze [yange] ko bamufata. Ni ukuvuga ko ingufu bavuga yari afite atari ize: ni izo bamwitirira.
Ntabwo rero abantu bashoboraga gupfa uwa mbere, uwa kabiri,.. uwa mbere yapfuye mu kwa Munani 1973 kuvuga ngo ntabwo Habyarimana yigeze abimenya ni ukubeshya kuko yarabimenye, umuntu wari uhagarariye u Rwanda mu Bubiligi yaratabaje anyuze kuri Ambasaderi w’Ububiligi, yabimubwiriye kuri aéroport Zaventem usibye ko yibeshyaga umuntu uwo yakekaga ko yapfuye atari we, ariko uwa mbere yari yapfuye, ni ukuvuga ko ibyo byonyine, yari azi ko yapfuye. Muri ’74 hari abandi bakozi bo muri ambasade y’igihugu cyo mu Burengerazuba, ni umukamarade wari muri Perezidensi, baramubwira bati “Kayibanda napfa ntabwo muzashobora kuyobora kiriya gihugu”. Undi yamusubije ngo “nta kibazo kirimo pour le moment [ubu], ngo ariko mu gihe kizaza ngo bizaba ari ikibazo koko ngo ariko dukurikije ubushishozi tumuziho ngo icyo kibazo azagikemura neza. Urumva ko abo bantu ntabwo wavuga ngo ni Lizinde wabishe. N’uwo mukamarade ni umwe, wari muri perezidanse, si babiri, aravuga ko ayo madosiye yacugwa n’umuntu umwe.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Reka njye kwa Doctor Nkusi, Doctor Nkusi, kuko iminota irimo kugenda; Doctor Nkusi, Alphonse yari avuze ijambo ndavuga nti “reka, ndamuha ijambo akivuge” ariko icyo yashakaga kuvuga reka nkikubaze wowe, mu bintu bivugwa ko byatumye igisirikare gifata icyemezo cyuko ubutegetsi bwa Kayibanda bugomba kugenda ni ibyemezo Kayibanda yari yafashe: muri Werurwe 1973, Lt. Col. Alexis Kanyarengwe yagizwe umuyobozi wa seminari ya Nyundo, Majoro Benda Sabin agirwa umuyobozi w’uruganda rw’icyayi rwa Shagasha i Cyangugu, Majoro Aloys Nsekarije agirwa umuyobozi w’ikigo cy’ubukerarugendo, Majoro Laurent Serubuga ngo yari agiye kuhorezwa i Washington kuba umunyamabanga w’ambasade y’u Rwanda. Ibi ndabikura mu gitabo cyanditswe na Nkuliyingoma. Bavuga ko ibi ngibi ni bimwe byihutishije icyemezo cyo kumukura ku butegetsi, Nkusi!
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Dusubiye inyuma ibyo uwo mugenzi wanjye amaze kuvuga kuri ariya matariki, kuri 12 z’ukwezi kwa Gatatu arakubwira ko hari coup d’etat yaburiyemo muri 1973, kuri 19/05/1973, hari coup d’etat yaburijwemo. Iyi ngiyi yo kuya 5 Nyakanga 1973 nayo navuga ko yatunganye kubera ko kuri uyu munsi hari kongere za MDR-Parmehutu zagombaga kuba mu maperefegitura yose y’u Rwanda, urumva rero abantu bari barangariye ayo makongere, nabo babiba umugono niko navuga mu Kinyarwanda. Aya matariki hari icyo akubwira, urumva ko Kayibanda, izi coup d’etat uko ari ebyeri zari zimaze kuburizwamo, Kayibanda ni ukuvuga ko yari azi ko ibintu byabaye kuva muri Gashyantare 1973 kugeza muri Kamena 1973 bariya basirikare bakuru babifitemo uruhare ariko icyaje gutangaza abantu kugeza na n’ubu, abakora ubushakashatsi, Kayibanda ntabwo yigeze yemera na rimwe ko Jenerali Majoro Habyarimana Juvenal ashobora kuba mu bantu bashobora kumukorera coup d’etat. Inshuti ze nyinshi zaramubwiye ziti -barimo uriya Minani Frodouard- bati “rwose uriya muntu ari mu bantu bashobora kugukorera coup d’etat!’ Ati “reka da, Habyarimana yabuze iki iwanjye ku buryo yakora coup d’etat?”
Ikindi na none kikwereka ko Kayibanda nawe yari amaze kumenya ibiri bube, ntabwo ari abo basirikare bakuru yohereje hanze gusa ahubwo hari n’ibindi bintu bibiri yakoze: yafashe abasirikare muri 1972, hari abasirikare babiri yazamuye batava mu Majyaruguru y’igihugu, abo ni Bizimana Andre wakomokaga i Gitarama na Seyanga Yohani Baptiste wakomokaga i Kibungo. Uyu Bizimana Andre yamugize umunyamabanga wa leta ushizwe urubyiruko na sport kandi ubundi urubyiruko na sport byari biri muri minisiteri iyoborwa na Habyarimana Juvenal. Haza kuza uyu capitaine, aba bombi bari abacapitaine, haza kuza capitaine Seyanga Yohani Baptiste, wakomokaga i Kibungo amugira Minisitiri mu biro bya Perezida wa Repubulika ushizwe guhuza politike n’ubutegetsi, urumva rero ko aba bantu nabo byeretse Habyarimana ko asa [Perezida Kayibanda] n’utegura kuko aba ngaba bivugwa ko bazamutse mu ntera cyane vuba vuba. Ibi rero na none birakwereka ko Kayibanda yari azi na none ibirimo bitegurwa. Kuba rero nabo aba ngaba ba Habyarimana bamaze kubona arimo azamura bamwe, akenshi baturuka za Gitarama, abandi arimo abigizayo, ibi ngibi ntawahakana yuko byihutishije iriya coup d’etat kandi na none ni ukuvuga ko abasirikare ni abasirikare, baravuga bati “igihe bamaze kuvumbura imitwe turimo, dushobora gushyirwa mu rukiko rwa gisirikare tukicwa”. Icyo ndakeka ko nakigusubije.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Duse n’abarangiza kuko ndabona, bambwiye ko iminota iri hafi kurangira, duse n’abarangiza mbabaza ikibazo kimwe cy’ubunararibonye, Muzehe Karake Canisius, amateka y’u Rwanda: kuva ingoma ya cyami ivaho amaraso yaramanetse, Kayibanda avaho amaraso aramaneka, Habyarimana avaho amaraso aramenetse. Ibi byo kumena amaraso ingoma zihinduka, ubutegetsi buhinduka birangire, ntibizongere, bibe nk’ahandi, bigende gute, muheze Karake?
Karake Canisius: Urakoze Mugenzi kuri iki kiganiro hari byinshi twari twateganyije ntibishoboye gutambuka gusa nagira ngo iki kiganiro kirangire ngeza ku batumva cyane cyane Abanyarwanda barebe basubize amaso inyuma mu mateka y’u Rwanda rwacu, iyo urebye usanga -ubwo hari ubutumwa nagombye gutanga kandi nibwo ngiye gutanga ubu ngubu – abanditse n’abandikishije amateka y’u Rwanda hari byinshi batavuze by’ukuri, hari ibinyoma bashyizemo cyane cyane hari nk’aho bavuga ngo “u Rwanda ni igihugu gitemba amata n’ubuki”, iyo usubije amaso witegereje ibyabaye usanga ahubwo u Rwanda ari igihugu gitemba amarira n’amaraso. Nibutse gatoya bahirika ingoma ya Mashira mu Nduga, bahirika ingoma ya Kimenyi mu Gisaka, ibyabaye i Rubi rw’inyundo, ibyabereye i Bwishaza Ruganzu Ndoli arwana na Bitibibisi, ibyabaye ku Rucunshu hagati ya Kabare na Rutarindwa, ibyabaye muri ’59 bahirika ingoma ya cyami, ibyabaye muri ‘73 bahirika ingoma ya Perezida Kayibanda, ibyabaye muri ’94 bahirika ingoma ya Habyarimana, tutibagiwe n’ibindi byinshi byabaye mbere y’icyo gihe, ayo mata n’ubuki hari aho wayabona? Ukuri rero kwabyo ni uko nk’umunyarwanda ukunda u Rwanda, Abanyarwanda bose bari bakwiye gukora ibishoboka byose, bagashaka uburyo n’umwanya, tukaganira ku mateka yacu, tutabeshyana maze muri icyo kiganiro tukavanamo amasomo n’imyanzuro byadufasha guca burundu umwiryane udacogora hagati yacu, uduhoza muri gatebe gatoki, wenda koko ibyo niba biramutse bibaye igihugu cyacu cyazaba igihugu gitemba amata n’ubuki ureke ibyo dukomeza kuvuga twishyinyagurira.
Ikindi nababwira ni uko twakora ibishoboka byose tukiga amateka y’u Rwanda neza, tukayasuzuma, ikibazo cyo kwitwaza ngo abakiga n’abanyanduga ngo nibyo byateye ibyabaye muri 1973, njyewe nkurikije ibimenyetso mfite, nkurikije ibyo nabonye n’ibyo numvuse mu kazi nakoraga ntabwo kiriya kibazo gifite ishingiro, ni ikibazo bitwaje. Abahutu bataragera ku butegetsi nta na rimwe bigeze bagira icyo bapfa. Muzi mwese mu muco w’u Rwanda itabi ry’i Bugoyi, itabi ry’i Bugoyi ryeraga i Bugoyi ku Rwerere kwa ba Lizinde, rigakwira u Rwanda rwose ricuruzwa na bene wabo, nta n’umwe wigeze yicwa mu nzira cyangwa afatwa nabi kuko akomotse muri kariya karere.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ariko ndabyumva ibyo muzehe Karake ariko Alphonse yavuze itangazo ryahise kuri radio Rwanda, rimara amezi rivugwa none aba ngaba bahiritse [ubutegetsi bwa Kayibanda] mu mitwe yabo, bayekerezaga nk’uko utekereza?
Karake Canisius: Ndakubwiza ukuri, ririya tangazo ryari iryo kujijisha, abarikoze bari bazi icyo bakora.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Ingaruka ni ziriya, urabona bariya barwanashyaka bose ukuntu bishwe kandi bicwa nabi, ikinyamakuru nasomaga hano umuntu kwicishwa umunyu n’inzara, umunyarwanda mugenzi wawe ubikorera umunyarwanda mugenzi wawe, hari ikintu kiri aho ngaho, urwango sinzi ukuntu warusobanura?
Karake Canisius: Bariya banyarwanda bapfuye bishwe bunyamaswa. Nta n’inyamaswa zicana kuriya hagati yazo. Nagerageje gushaka ukuntu ntekereza nkavuga ngo “bariya bantu ari Habyarimana na bagenzi be ko bari barize mu iseminari, bakiga mu mashuri ategekwa n’abihayimana, ko umuntu yibwiraga yuko bahavanye umutima-muntu buriya bunyamaswa babukuye hehe?” Ni ukureba ahubwo mfite ubwoba, mfite impungege, Mugenzi mu mateka yacu ko Habyarimana yamaze gukora coup d’etat, akoresheje ariya mayeri yo kugira ngo ananize Kayibanda noneho yamara gufata ubutegetsi agahura n’ikintu njye nita ‘intambara y’umutima’, iyo ntambara y’umutima rero igomba kuba yaratumye hari abantu agisha inama ati “ko nafashe ubutegetsi wenda nibwira ko ari ibintu bishoboka nk’uko hari umuntu umwe muri bagenzi be, bigeze kubaza kuri radio Rwanda: “Habyarimana aramutse avuyeho ni nde wategeka u Rwanda?” Agasubiza ngo “gutegeka ninde byananira?”. Njye ntekereza ko Habyarimana yamaze kubufata bikamunanira akagira abantu agisha inama, muri ba bantu hakabonekamo abamushishikariza kwica bariya bantu, bashobora kuba bari bafite ibyo bapfa na Kayibanda noneho bakaba barabuze uko bihimura, bakagira Imana bakabona umuntu ufite umutima woroshye cyangwa se ufite ubwoba, bakamushyiramo icyo gitekerezo akaba ari ko byagenze.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Reka turangize kuko muri studio barimo kubwira ko ngomba kuvamo. Reka turangize twumva Alphonse; Alphonse, bigende gute amaraso ntazongere kumeneka mu Rwanda, ibyabaye ku babyeyi bawe ntibizabe ku bandi?
Alphonse Munyandamutsa: Ikintu cya mbere ni uko tutubakira ku musenyi, hejuru y’amateka atari nyayo, afutamye, icyo ni kimwe. Icya kabiri, ni uko mu gihugu cy’u Rwanda hakwiye kubaho ikintu koko umuntu yakora ikosa rikaba ari ikosa kandi rikamugarukiraho. Ntahagire uwitirirwa ikosa itakoze kandi ngo noneho kugira ngo bamwumvishe banarisige n’abandi bose bashaka. Ibyo bintu bibiri Abanyarwanda babashije kubigeraho: umuntu agahanirwa icyo yakoze koko, yaba ntacyo yakoze akagirwa umwere; ubundi tukubakira amateka yacu ku mateka koko, atari umugani w’amateka y’igihugu cyacu icyo gihe nkeka ko Abanyarwanda bashobora gutera intambwe ibarinda ibyo bintu by’imivu y’amaraso.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Doctor Nkusi, soza kuri icyo kibazo, amaraso ntakomeze kumeneka mu Rwanda abantu baharanira ubutegetsi, amagambo make, urasoza!
Dr Yosefu Nkusi: Ikibazo cy’abakiga n’abanyenduga ni cyo ndibuhereho: ikibazo cy’abakiga n’abanyenduga ntakiri mu Rwanda, ikibazo cy’abanyenduga n’abakiga kiri mu mitwe cy’abiyita ngo barize, kuko nakoze ku Gisenyi ngera n’aho nshingirayo mushiki wanjye nta muntu wari wagera i Butare ngo abanyabutare bamubwire ngo “wa Mukiga we!” Bene wabo iyo bagiye ku Gisenyi ntawe ubabwira ngo “wa Munyenduga we!”. Ikindi ndangirijeho ni uko ntawe uzamena amaraso y’Abanyarwanda ngo abikire! Ntawe uzamena amaraso y’Abanyarwanda ngo abikire. Ni icyo navuga gusa.
Ally Yusuf Mugenzi: Reka turangize! Nzi ko mwari mufite byinshi byo kuvuga ariko igihe ntabwo gishobora kutwemerera mbashimire mwese ku bitekerezo mutanze muri iki kiganiro: nshimire Karake Canisius, nshimire Alphonse Munyandamutsa nawe Dr Nkusi Joseph. Hano muri studio nafashijwe na mugenzi wanjye Florentine Kwizera. Mwari kumwe na Ally Yusuf Mugenzi. Ni ah’ubutaha!
