The latest reaction and news to David Moyes' sacking
Moyes says club need a 'fundamental rebuilding'
Five steps to finding a successor to David Moyes
United set to beat Chelsea in £30m deal for Luke Shaw
Paul Wilson: Time for Manchester United to get real
Send your thoughts to email@example.com
Or get in touch over on the Twitter @giles_richards
Finally for today here's Mark Redding's examination of how although sacking is supposedly not the United way, history tells a different story ...
Gary Neville is outraged, Carlo Ancelotti baffled, the League Managers Association sad.
David Moyes' dismissal is not the United way their critics say, they are not a sacking club, they handle things differently at the Theatre of Dreams. And yet
Ex-United manager Frank O'Farrell tells us he believes there is a lack of patience in the modern game after Moyes's dismissal. The Irishman, who lasted 18 months as manager for United, says both Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson had rough patches before going on to win titles for the club.
And our tea-timely email The Fiver takes a look at today's news through the eyes of Klaus Kinski and Werner Herzog.
Here's writer, poet and United fan Musa Okwonga's take on the last few days from the FullTimeDevils channel.
The Press Association's Martyn Ziegler reports that United's brief share rise has disappeared. "The sharp rise in the value of Manchester United's shares after David Moyes was sacked was wiped out in the space of an hour when the New York Stock Exchange opened for trading on Wednesday.
United's shares rose to 18.78 US dollars, its highest point since Sir Alex Ferguson's retirement last May, at close of trading on Tuesday. But within an hour of trading reopening the share value had experienced a slump and was down 6.8 per cent to 17.50 dollars."
Bluedylan is keen to refute below the line at leas tone of the possible future scenarios thus far suggested, saying: "Kiran Kulkarni might be a good fiction writer, but he can be assured that Roberto Martinez will be going absolutely nowhere for the foreseeable future. He's planning next season's transfer strategy, he's involved in planning the refurbishment of Finch Farm"
Top-notch mixture of fiction, straw-clutching and self-sacrifice here from Mark Judd: "Ive never watched Game of Thrones so know little of what I talk about but if Wayne Rooney is advised to avoid weddings Ill get remarried to anyone and invite him to the wedding if it ultimately gets him off the pay-roll at Old Trafford."
This whole thing appears to be getting a little, well, quantum as the possible future scenarios keep rolling in ...
Here's Ben Trueman: "Never mind all the worry about a new manager. It seems we will soon be signing Luke Shaw! Cant wait to see Luke conducting traditional post contract photo op obligations smiling across the desk with No one on the other side; standing on the turf at Old T stretching freshly printed shirt between himself and No one. By the way, does this early business mean that the incoming manager will now be handed a war chest of £120M?:
Congratulations to Andrew Mason who gets in first with the obvious punchline to Kiran's Toffees-return plan below: "Moyes' return to Goodison would be more of a nightmare than dream after the lovely time we've been having this season ..."
My colleague Dan Lucas simply could not help himself, emailing in on the Game of Thrones comparisons, saying: "David Moyes as Ned Stark isn't a bad shout. The head of a once noble house, which he inherited from a great nobleman. His home of Winterfell/Old Trafford was once a great, fearsome, decorated castle that was recently sacked by a number of different families. Dear Ned was oblivious to the danger around him and continued to make bafflingly stupid decisions based on what he believed to be honourable before (SPOILER ALERT BUT IT'S BEEN IN THE BOOKS 20 YEARS, ON TV FOR THREE AND HE'S PLAYED BY WALKING SPOILER SEAN BEAN) some xxxxxx who recently xxxxxx the kingdom chopped xxx head xxx." (NB: Dan's spoilers actually deleted to avoid vexing touchy GoT fans).
"Also tell Wayne Rooney to avoid weddings."
Kiran Kulkarni offers a rather neat little proposal that seems to tick all sorts of boxes and ends on a rather lovely note. "Barcelona are likely to relieve Gerardo Martino of first team duties at the Nou Camp," says Kiran. "With the Spanish champions out of the Champions League and trailing in the title race. Wengers name has been mentioned in relation to the job and should he find himself out of work in North London, he may go to a club filled with players ideally suited to his attacking mentality. That leaves Arsenal without a manager, which is where Roberto Martinez comes in. That would leave Goodison Park empty of a boss and Moyes, one of the longest serving managers in English football during his first spell with the Toffees, would be available. Everton have moved on but if theres anyone who knows the Merseyside club well, its their former boss.
"Can we all dream for the betterment of everyone's life & happiness and move on after yesterday's sad sack saga ?"
Reader Sarah Woodley poses the question demanding an answer in our Notes and Queries section: "Why is it that in football the manager always gets the blame?".
Touche, Craig G, who notes: "To be fair, the Glazers are hardly Lannisters either, are they? When was the last time actually paid their debts?"
While Ash MK joins in below the line: "Game of Thrones analogies, is it? I guess that makes Sir Alex the Tywin Lannister of the piece. Mourinho would be Littlefinger. David Moyes would be good and honourable Ned Stark. And we all know how that worked out!"
Success stories that David Moyes had to compete against - Brendan Rodgers and Tony Pulis, the recent stats say - as interpreted by Alistair Tweedale for the Guardian Sport Network.
Scooter and the Dead Kennedys already but the pop culture cross-over marches ever onwards as Heather Lyons succinctly offers this on United's immediate future: "Giggs and Scholes? Not exactly the Lannisters are they?"
Popoola Ore offers a pleasing solution to the replacement issue with some Frankenstein-esque personality combination, below. Any other suggestions for hybrid managers created by meddling with things we don't understand?
"If United do get Louis van Gaal, twill be like getting a hybrid of Guardiola and Mourinho - Guardiola's methodology and Mourinho's arrogance and occasional (everytime) madness." says Popoola.
Just looked Scooter up on wiki. I fear the age gap between myself and the mighty McCourt is on show. Massive-selling German techno apparently. Who would have thought it? I can't do Scooter really but I am at home with this vision of the future from the Dead Kennedys.
Hmm ... So, as it this the nature of these things,Andrew Sheena is less sympathetic to Chander Sharma's comments below. "The only defence people ever give Moyes is that he needs time," says Andrew. "Not one person has given any positive to his tenure of management, just kept mindlessly claiming he needs time. Time time time. It means nothing! If that is the best thing you can say about him then it tells its own story doesnt it. The harsh truth of it is that he hasn't been able to get anywhere near the best of his players, tactically he has been out maneuvered by most half decent managers he has come up against, and he has not been able to get us playing anything close to decent football. He has failed by a wide, wide margin. People dont tend to forget Fergie was a slow starter, it is brought up constantly. It was not horrific either, but then again he didnt inherit the champions and had smashed Real Madrid with Aberdeen."
Right, I have been unchained from the desk and I am going to use this freedom to escape from the building and visit the local sandwich emporium for some much-needed nourishment. But do not worry, my colleague Giles Richards has kindly agreed to step in for me while I do so. You can holler at him on firstname.lastname@example.org. Speak soon.
Andrei Kanchelskis, remember him? Of course you do, he was great (see below). Well someone has tracked him down and asked for his two cents on all these shenanigans. He did not hold back:
Not all the players are ready to play for Manchester United, especially in defence and midfield. I do not understand why Rio Ferdinand and Rafael are still in the side. They are not up to the standard of Manchester United. They need to get rid of a few players across the pitch.
Manchester United have responded to the earlier statements from Moyes and the LMA. They said:
We do not accept that it was handled in an unprofessional manner. The decision was not taken until late Monday night and was communicated face-to-face first thing on Tuesday morning. When reports started emerging on internet news sites on Monday afternoon, no decision had been taken at that time.
"People are all raving about what's going to happen to Man Utd now but very few are thinking about where does David Moyes go from here," says Chander Sharma. "Will he follow the same route as say Roy Hodgson (after Liverpool)? I've supported United my whole life and I must admit I was very much looking forward to seeing Moyes given time there. People forget that had Ed Woodward done his job and actually purchased the players we needed at the start of the season we wouldn't be where we are now. If Moyes has gone then so should Woodward. Granted Moyes hasn't been great but people tend to forget that SAF had a horrific first few seasons. In conclusion I'd say Moyes needed one more season and if the Glazers were unsure as to what Moyes would have done with £150 million then they only had to take a look at his track record at Everton, a very shrewd operator (the Fellini debacle aside)."
You thought that Luke Shaw was going to Chelsea didn't you? You were wrong. You were very wrong.
Manchester United are convinced a £30m deal to buy Luke Shaw on a £100,000 a-week salary is virtually complete in what is viewed as a major coup over Chelsea, with the sacked David Moyes largely responsible for convincing the Southampton left-back to spurn the club he supports.
The prospective transfer would make Shaw English football's highest ever paid teenager and provides a boost for United in the wake of the Scot's departure as the club embark on finding his replacement ahead of a summer in which they are intent on a spend of up to £150m on rebuilding the squad.
Kiran Kulkarni has a novel suggestion. "Enough of Klopp, Van Gaal, Guardiola guff. I think Sir Alex should return for at least one season & prove that it is the manager of the team who wins the titles not the players. He has Fellaini, Cleverly, Raphael, Smalling at his disposal to assist him conquer England again. He can also get Rooney a £400000m-a-week deal when he scores via that overhead kick. Does he fancy winning the league again & knock Liverpool right off their perch?"
To imagine that Sir Alex Ferguson is fundamentally questioning himself at this juncture is to misunderstand the man, says Marina Hyde.
The one thing it isn't, I'm afraid, is "hugely embarrassing for Sir Alex Ferguson". Quite how put out you are by that ineluctable truth is a matter of personal taste. You may in fact find it very palatable that the former Manchester United titan will regard himself as entirely unbesmirched by the sorry saga which on Tuesday saw his chosen successor find his desk in the lift. Or you may wish fervently that a chastened Ferguson were sitting right now in a luxury hotel room, crying his humiliated little heart out, as José Mourinho reportedly did after learning the United manager's job would be going to David Moyes in the first place.
But to adopt either position counts as what the pop psychologists would categorise as projecting. Something can only really be deemed embarrassing if there is an embarrassee, and to imagine that Ferguson is fundamentally questioning himself at this juncture is to misunderstand the man, and everything that experience should have taught those who had the opportunity to observe him for so long.
Had a dream last night which featured the old National Lottery advert, but it was Fergie's giant finger pointing down from the stands saying in a deep voice 'It's Mou'.
You can't argue with that evidence.
Here is our chief football correspondent, Daniel Taylor, on the latest from the LMA and Moyes.
Did the LMA criticise Sir Alex Ferguson, one of their own, for "unprofessional manner" in which he recruited Moyes behind Everton's back?
Ferguson tapped up Moyes and told him he had a new job - admitted by all - two days before Everton played a Merseyside derby
"The most appropriate Scooter song for Utd this coming year," reckons Niall Rowantree, "is surely 'Back in the UK' from the 1996 classic album 'Our Happy Hardcore'. After all they're not going to be in Europe." Classic album? Really? That can't be right, can it?
Once again we have the plan
Driving you wild as good as we can
It is time for Manchester United to get real, says Paul Wilson. Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy is long gone and the Theatre of Dreams is no longer the attraction it used to be as United search for a successor to David Moyes.
Manchester United supporters must be hugely relieved that Sir Alex Ferguson is going to play a part in headhunting their next manager. He has achieved such a lot in the game, he knows the club inside out and he must have every promising coach's number in his contact book, so what could possibly go wrong?
Apologies for the flippancy, but things have moved on a bit since the last coronation and United still do not appear to appreciate the seriousness of the new situation. They are still behaving as if Old Trafford is a dream destination, somewhere anyone in the managerial world would love to come and have a go, conveniently ignoring the actual nitty gritty of the club's reduced cirmcumstances. Nail a note to the front door saying "Job available" and Louis van Gaal would still come knocking, so why the need for the nod from Ferguson?
Magnusson has this to say below the line.
Very dignified speech from Moyes. Keeping his dignity despite a very public and protracted public humilation. They were right to let him go but its been handled very badly.
No mention of players then?
A very classy statement from Moyes.
I sincerely wish him all the best for the future. He's still a decent manager and hopefully gets a new job soon.
I'm not buying this 'dignified nice guy' stuff. He's just spent an entire season whining about anything and everything but himself. The FA with the fixture list, injuries, bad luck, referees, and then even going so far to criticise the players (the champions, remember) and Ferguson, falsely claiming he was left with an ageing squad. When Ferguson complained about fixtures he was roundly criticised, Moyes gets described as 'dignified'. Absolute rubbish. He's a whining loser who utterly failed to grasp the size of the task at hand and by all accounts treated seasoned pros who had just won the title like naughty schoolboys who needed to be whipped into shape. He's a negative, percentage football dullard who has achieved absolutely nothing in the game, ever.
He's leaving with a £5 million pay off and will be picked up by another club. Tears not required.
David Moyes leaving United with some class..,Shame to club couldn't act in a similar way....
The staff on the desk have broken away off discussing their favourite Scooter song it should probably be this to cobble together this story on Moyes saying he 'understands' frustration of Manchester United fans.
David Moyes has broken his silence on his sacking by Manchester United, saying he "understands and shares" the frustration of their fans at the club's disappointing season but suggested that the squad needed a fundamental overhaul to achieve success in the future.
In a statement released by the League Managers Association, Moyes said: "To have been appointed as manager of Manchester United, one of the biggest football clubs in the world, was and remains something of which I will always be incredibly proud.
Paul Ewart has been in touch re the Moyes statement. "What do you make of that? Asked you. I make of that: severance package agreed. Confidentiality Agreement signed." Probably, which is a real, real shame. Think I can speak for all when I say I would love to know what went down in that dressing-room after all those defeats.
"What about Michael Laudrup for United?"
asks James Mattick. "He has shown ability in the premier league already. Plays football that is easy on the eye. Won a trophy in the UK. Managed in Europe. Media darling. Unemployed."
You'll notice he did not mention the players in that statement. Guessing he won't be having them down the local for his going away drinks.
What do we make of all that?
Those statements in full then are as follows:
David Moyes says:
To have been appointed as manager of Manchester United, one of the biggest football clubs in the world, was and remains something of which I will always be incredibly proud.
Taking charge after such a long period of continuous stability and success at the club was inevitably going to be a significant challenge, but it was one which I relished and never had a second thought about taking on.
The LMA is very disappointed with the nature of David's departure from Manchester United and to read extensive reports in the press, confirming David's sacking, before David himself had been spoken to officially by the club.
Throughout his time at United, David, as he always does, has conducted himself with integrity and professionalism, values that he believes in and that have been strongly associated with the club and its rich tradition. It is therefore sad to see the end of David's tenure at United being handled in an unprofessional manner.
While we are waiting for the full text, here's some snippets to keep you warm:
I both understand and share their frustration. I have always believed that a manager never stops learning during his career and I know I will take invaluable experience from my time as United's manager. I remain proud to have led the team to the quarter finals of this year's Champions League and I remain grateful to Sir Alex Ferguson for believing in my ability and giving me the chance to manage Manchester United.
League Managers' Assoc CEO @RichBevan7 on Moyes: "Sad to see the end of David's tenure at United being handled in an unprofessional manner"
David Moyes has spoken via the medium of a LMA speech. Will have the full text of that statement quicker than you can spell supercalifragilisticexpialidocious backwards.
"United now have to be very, very careful," cautions Ciaran Bradley. "All the signs are pointing to the best younger managers i.e. Guardiola, Klopp and Martinez being unavailable for the time being. In which case, the best tactic would be to approach Van Gaal to take over the role for 2-3 years to steady the club all the while, sorting a bumper contract for the best young manager in the game. If the decision was indeed made in February, then the wheels should have been set in motion months ago to do this, particularly given the seeming grey-area of international managers contracts.
"My concern with this is that there is nothing to suggest any joined-up thinking at the executive level. There is a danger of over-analysing the catastrophic summer transfer window; it is not for me to suggest that nothing was learned by Woodward et al. But United need to be aware that there were issues that precluded them being at the real top table of European giants their location and relative under-investment in the squad that have been exacerbated by the lack of Champions League revenue and a tarnished public relations image.
Here is a short video on what fans in Manchester reckon about all this jazz. Enjoy.
"Lots of confident assumptions regarding Van Gaal's future" says Paul Ewart. "Barcelona's potential need for a new manager my well queer the pitch. Any thoughts?" Not sure he would be welcomed back to the Camp Nou again, would he? His first spell there, while successful, was dotted with rows with players especially Rivaldo and his second spall was something of a disaster. It is an interesting question though. Who will take over at Barça?
Or Gary Megson?
Has anyone asked Sven if he is free?
Our Manchester correspondent Jamie Jackson has been back in touch re the rumours about Roy Keane taking over as Van Gaal's assistant manager. He says: "On the LVG wanting Roy Keane as assistant yarn, I'm told any thoughts of who might be the new permanent manager's No2 is getting ahead of the prime objective of identifying the prospective first choice candidate to be the No1." We wait in hope.
While we all chin wag over Van Gaal and Klopp and Keane and Ancelotti, Eric Harrison, the ex Manchester United youth team coach and the man behind the development of those class of 92 starlets, reckons that they already have the man they need in one Ryan Giggs. Presumably shouting to TalkSport, he said:
[Giggs] is a legend at the club. He is up there with likes of Bobby Charlton and Denis Law. He is well respected with all the players and supporters and he will get the atmosphere better on the training ground and at Old Trafford. The players will go into training at Carrington relishing the sessions and they will be flying at Old Trafford ... I used to call him a football nut because he took everything on board. He has got a chance [to be a top manager].
"I wouldnt put it past the Glazers to go for Mourinho" says Mark Judd. "Theyve probably heard of him and that he is quite good."
Tor-Kristian Karlsen has come up with
15 steps on how to chew gum in class
five steps that Manchester United need to follow when appointing the next man in charge and he reckons that United will realise they need a more professional and rigorous recruitment process this time around.
The reasons for Moyes' sacking are obvious and well-documented, but in summary the main issues for the board would be firstly the lack of progression in the team's style of play. United's performances have shown no signs of developing into something fluent and cohesive, and in modern football you no longer have three years to prove you can do this. Secondly, with no sporting director at United the onus is on the manager to decide transfers, and Moyes' record (the players he failed to sign, the failure of Marouane Fellaini and his inability to get the best out of Juan Mata) wouldn't instil confidence that he could do better with the investment needed in the summer. Finally, though you can live with some poor results if you can see signs of progress, there have been too many this season for a club of United's reputation with no positive indications of improvement.
Very strange, and unusual, for Mourinho to bring Abramovich into it publicly. He's up to something. No idea what. But felt pre-planned.
He wouldn't, would he? He couldn't, could he? We all know how bad he wanted it last time and how bad he is supposed to have reacted to not getting it.
Who has the time to write this stuff?
How to Chew Gum in Class in 15 easy steps.
Have you spent that last few hours chewing your cuticles, chewing your pencil, chewing gum, chewing your hair and wondering what Jürgen Klinsmann has made of all this? Wonder no more, people, wonder no more.
Very disappointed seeing David Moyes sacked by Man U. Coaches deserve an opportunity to build their own team. Hes a great manager !
Below the line, CSlater reckons that appointing Van Gaal is the right thing to do.
Got to be van Gaal for me over Ancelotti. Saw an interview a while ago about how, when he goes into a new job, the first thing he does is keep one of the old staff on (Giggs?) who knows the club and the youths. He picks out a few kids on the coach's recommendation and assesses them for himself. If they can do the job he wants them to do in the first team, they're in. He seems to have a better record with bringing in youth than Ancelotti.
A blend of youth and a few big signings, along with a more tactical approach, Man Utd will fare better than this year I'm sure. This year they had six teams who had better managers than they did (Rodgers, Mourinho, Wenger, Martinez, Pellagrini, Potechino). Even Hughes, Sherwood and Pulis have claimed more points with worse squads than Moyes has since the New Year. With van Gaal, they'll have a manager that's worthy of of the club. He'll bend the players to his way and they'll respect him because of what he's won. He's not a small improvement but a major one imho.
Re Louis van Gaal. Spoke to a journalist or two based in the Netherlands yesterday and they seemed pretty confident that the former Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern Munich top dog was ready to pose with the Manchester United mouse pads just as soon as Ed Woodward got in touch. There were also rumours this morning that if he were to get the job, he would want Roy Keane as his assistant manager. Keane and Van Gaal, what could possibly go wrong, eh? Speaking of Van Gaal, my colleague David Hytner wrote a piece about him which you can read by clicking on this hyperlink. (Hyper! Hyper! Anyone else remember Scooter? No? Just me then, yeah?)
Here's our man in Manchester and his take on the news that Paul Scholes has given up his budding career as a TV pundit in favour of placing the cones in a straight line on the training pitch and showing the young ones how it is done.
Paul Scholes has been added to Ryan Giggs' backroom staff at Manchester United, with the 39-year-old helping run Wednesday morning.'s training session.
Scholes is helping Giggs along with Nicky Butt, the youth team coach, and Phil Neville and Chris Woods, the two members of the sacked David Moyes's backroom staff who have remained following the Scot's departure on Monday morning.
David Moyes was nominated as his heir but all he did was emphasise Sir Alex Ferguson's staggering achievements, writes Russell Brand.
David Moyes' face has now experienced the fate for which it looks like it was designed. The deep grooves of grief in his brow, his sunken, woeful eyes and dry parched lips a perspicacious sculpture carved in anticipation of this slap of indignity.
Ferguson's selection of the "chosen one" now looks less like John the Baptist heralding Christ and more like what I would do if invited to select my ex's next partner; the mendacious dispatch of a castrated chump to grimly jiggle with futile pumps upon Man United's bone-dry, trophy-bare mound. Moyes, a name that, let's face it, sounds like a Yiddish word for eunuch, has endured 317 days of celibacy, whilst at Everton his former paramour, under the beguiling matador Martínez, is likely to claim the final Champions League place.
While we are awaiting that story, here's mrbirtakim's take from below the line on the possibility of Jürgen Klopp taking over from where Moyes left off.
It's really fascinating to see Klopp's name among contenders. Does anyone really rate this ManU side better than Dortmund?
I'm not sure how many people would take given the opportunity of ManU job, with a below average squad, high expectations and no CL football next year and leave a club like Dortmund? A great history doesn't really help managers when it comes to getting the results -ask poor Dave.
... Manchester United have confirmed that Paul Scholes will assist Ryan Giggs and co. We'll have the full story from our man in Manchester, Jamie Jackson, with you soon enough.
If you spent yesterday in a deep cave on Mars with your fingers in your ears humming the latest James Blunt song, then may have missed some interesting stories. First up is this one:
Sir Alex Ferguson will be asked to take a prominent role in decidingManchester United's next manager despite an acknowledgement within the club that he was responsible for choosing the wrong man last time.
United are deliberating between Louis van Gaal and Carlo Ancelotti to replace David Moyes after the former Everton manager was sacked in a 7.40am meeting with the club's chief executive, Ed Woodward. Diego Simeone, the Atlético Madrid coach, is also being considered but United are leaning towards a more experienced candidate and their initial discussions, involving Ferguson, have concluded that the job has come too early for Ryan Giggs, even if he exceeds expectations in his four games as interim manager.
When David Moyes was unveiled as Sir Alex Ferguson's successor after 27 trophy-laden years at Old Trafford, the rhetoric was almost biblical. One Scot passed the flame to his anointed countryman, exhorted the faithful to give "the Chosen One" time and emphasised the extent to which the club was not like any other.
The end, just 10 months after a smiling Moyes walked into Old Trafford clutching a six-year contract, was brutal and underlined the extent to which Manchester United can no longer differentiate itself.
Yawwwwwwwwwn. What? No, no, that's not my reaction to having to spend the next couple of hours live blogging the events at Old Trafford, that's my reaction to having to spend 90 minutes of my life being transported to the 19th century last night. While that was about as much fun as being dragged to Ikea when the sun is shining hard and your friends are all spending the day practising their extreme ironing techniques, today should bring some much needed relief and some much needed fun. We can discuss whose next in the Manchester United hot seat! We can point large fingers of blame! We can ... wait, come back!