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OT: w/out working class... - 6 Updates
OT: Bill Black on the Election - 3 Updates
Bernie warns Trump - 2 Updates
OT: taking donations - 1 Update
Would Sanders have defeated Trump? - 2 Updates
Trump will evacuate only criminal illegal immigrant - 1 Update
Adriano Panatta on Djokovic - 2 Updates
Democracy lost - 3 Updates
America Votes: One Mistake Too Many - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International - 2 Updates
Huge anti trump in NYC & Chicago right now - 2 Updates
OT: can we just call him The Donald again - 1 Update
OT: w/out working class...
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 08:45PM -0500
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 20:24:25 -0800 (PST), Court_1
>> courty, comments??
>> bob
>So what do you propose Bob? Do you think an unskilled worker with no education should make the same salary and receive the same benefits as an educated individual who heads up a corporation? Is that your answer, i.e. to give handouts to all?
never said that. i said it should be more equitable, not exactly
equal. surely the man with the ideas and creates an empire for many
others to live well deserves more. but not ALL.
>I agree with you that professionals and heads of business need workers to help them achieve their goals but what are you proposing? Some sort of Socialist regime where everybody is paid the same amount regardless of output/education/experience, etc? I'll tell you what, if you believe that so strongly, why don't you take the salary you receive and earn from gaining an education and working hard and hand it over to less fortunate people?
sigh. never said equal. i said lessen the gap, it's simply the
magnitude of the gap that is out of control and has caused humongous
problems in the usa. frankly, i don't think canada has this problem at
all. we do. of course from a palm beach condo, it's a little hard to
see without a telescope.
>A capitalist society is all about having the opportunity to better yourself. There will always be some degree of income inequality in that system. The goal should be to help ease the general income inequality situation but you are never going to resolve it fully and it's not the responsibility of the government to do that. It's their responsibility to try and make it better and ease some of the burden for those who earn less. That's it.
charles koch has 45bil. if he had 10bil, he's still be doing ok, no?
could still live in a nice home drive a nice car, no?
but could then take 35 bil to spread around to people who really make
him the money. is that "communism" or "socialism"?
besides, we already have a socialist society. we have a defense dept,
we have a gov't build roads, we hae medicare, medicaid, etc. why not
expand this to life the problem of 47mil in poverty????
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 08:47PM -0500
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 02:51:32 -0800 (PST), The Iceberg
>> have a reasonable life just by being average. The rich getting richer
>> doesn't hurt as much if you can still have a good lifestyle.
>have to say this is why Obamacare should be kept, any civilized nation should have a national health service. It's one of those things that allows average a reasonable life.
i would agree except i don't think you underatand obamacare. it is not
a national health system. nowhere close. i would LOVE a straight up
national health care system, like most european countries and canada
have, but obamacare IMO is a very unfair system.
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 08:36PM -0500
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 21:25:05 -0800 (PST), Court_1
>> everything he has done in business life suggests he will INCREASE the
>> income inequality.
>Probably. I think Trump's idea of sorting out income inequality is providing more manufacturing jobs in America for the working class and giving them some opportunities to better themselves. That's it
that's a LOT.
>0. That won't solve the heart of the income inequality problem though. I don't think Trump's tax plan will help the middle class as it's set up to help the upper classes and he has no plans to increase min. wage.
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Nov 10 06:15PM -0800
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 12:45:46 AM UTC-
> The corporation head should definitely make plenty more. At issue is the magnitude of income disparity which has broadened over decades and reached a point where more and more workers are consigned to life below the poverty line. This makes "the American Dream" increasingly more of a pipe dream.
I agree that the magnitude of the income disparity has broadened but other than raise minimum wage (something that isn't in the Trump economic plan) and try and create more jobs for the disenfranchised (something which was at the heart of the Trump campaign and probably won him the election amongst working class), what else can be done about it? It's not an easy or magical fix.
> It surprises me that you maintain a polarized world-view wherein there is only a choice between laissez faire capitalism and communism with no spectrum between them.
Except that isn't what I feel or isn't what I'm saying at all. I'm saying how far does the responsibility go for government to intercede and try and close the gap on income disparity? If Trump can create the jobs in the US again and bring some semblance of manufacturing back to the US again (something which won't be easy), isn't that enough? Where do we draw the line? As long as corporations pay their workers what is regulated by law or go above and beyond that and pay their workers more depending on whether they are skilled or unskilled and how important these workers are to them in their everyday business production, what else do you propose the government and corporation owners do?
> And when did Sanders ever propose equal wages for everyone and redistribution of wealth?
You must be kidding? Sanders'entire campaign was about the redistribution of wealth!
> Or is that perhaps some long-term hidden agenda that all "Socialists" have deep down even when advocating things like the health care system Canada ALREADY HAS?
Let me tell you something about the wonderful Canadian health care system. It has its drawbacks. If you go to a doctor's office you often have to wait hours to get into see the doctor because they are so backed up and need to see a certain number of patients a day to make ends meet and I'm talking about a GP. Let's not even talk about a specialist. Also, if you are suffering from something that doesn't appear to be life-threatening and need something like an MRI to try and determine what the problem is, you have to wait at least 4 months to get the MRI and often you have to wait 6 months or more. I've gone to the US a few times to get MRIs done right away because I didn't want to wait six months. If you have the money, many Canadians go to the US for MRIs, scans, etc. The healthcare system in Canada has its advantages but it is far from perfect.
Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com>: Nov 10 06:16PM -0800
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 5:46:01 PM UTC-8, bob wrote:
> never said that. i said it should be more equitable, not exactly
> equal. surely the man with the ideas and creates an empire for many
> others to live well deserves more. but not ALL.
Yes, and it should have been obvious that this is what you meant.
> problems in the usa. frankly, i don't think canada has this problem at
> all. we do. of course from a palm beach condo, it's a little hard to
> see without a telescope.
That Palm Beach Condo must be something.
> him the money. is that "communism" or "socialism"?
> besides, we already have a socialist society. we have a defense dept,
> we have a gov't build roads, we hae medicare, medicaid, etc.
Putting in place Sanders policies on health care, education, etc. would mean higher taxes on the wealthy, but I doubt if they'd put even that much of a dent in those with fortunes like Koch's. They would still be filthy rich, but the problem is that they're too greedy to part with *any* of that wealth. Nor do they think they're obliged in the least to feed anything back into the system that allows them to live in opulence.
> why not expand this to life the problem of 47mil in poverty????
You already know her answer on that one. It's 47 million too lazy to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Got to shake your head at thinking like this, but maybe some people sleep easier with the Romney delusion.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Nov 10 06:18PM -0800
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 3:17:34 AM UTC-5, Carey wrote:
> > I agree with you that professionals and heads of business need workers to help them achieve their goals but what are you proposing? Some sort of Socialist regime where everybody is paid the same amount regardless of output/education/experience, etc? I'll tell you what, if you believe that so strongly, why don't you take the salary you receive and earn from gaining an education and working hard and hand it over to less fortunate people?
> > A capitalist society is all about having the opportunity to better yourself. There will always be some degree of income inequality in that system. The goal should be to help ease the general income inequality situation but you are never going to resolve it fully and it's not the responsibility of the government to do that. It's their responsibility to try and make it better and ease some of the burden for those who earn less. That's it.
> Strawman much? Christ.
Fat Drew Carey, it isn't a strawman at all. I answered Bob's question. Don't you have some leeching off the wealthy you need to do or some more complaining to do? You could be bettering your circumstances instead of bitching all the time about capitalism.
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OT: Bill Black on the Election
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 09:09PM -0500
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 20:36:44 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:
>We're lucky we're surrounded by oceans - doesn't stop the boat people
>from trying to get in, but at least it's controlled easier than just
>walking across land.
lucky. we're stuck with some damn rotten bastards on 1 border.
and mexico on the other. :-)
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 09:10PM -0500
>> action was required
>Nope. They were people who bought the demagoguery, Biff insulting
>himself to presidency. It's easy to criticize.
they're now the "redneck in chief" to you...
>If the system had collapsed then that is because of obstructionism from
>GOP.
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 09:16PM -0500
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 13:32:51 +0100 (CET), *skriptis
> whatever but it's applicable here too.
>He insults couple of millions of illegals she responds by
> insulting 50 million core population. :)
i know, i couldn't believe it. it's like missing a wide open shoulder
height volley after your opponent fell down in a corner.
>Trump's win is not a surprise in no way. We've all seen it coming.
to be honest, i didn't. i thought a 3% loss.
> Wan teaching him few Jedi tricks but true training with Yoda in
> Dagobah is something Luke/Trump will get when he meets Putin in
> Kremlin.
bob
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Bernie warns Trump
PeteWasLucky <Waleed.Khedr@gmail.com>: Nov 10 06:11PM -0800
Obama has to handle the transition the right way, it's official, what do you want him to do?
PeteWasLucky <Waleed.Khedr@gmail.com>: Nov 10 06:12PM -0800
He will be almost 80 after four years.
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OT: taking donations
PeteWasLucky <Waleed.Khedr@gmail.com>: Nov 10 06:09PM -0800
I understand Bob can be excited because he got a president he likes, but Whisper and others that are not even living here, is stupid.
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Would Sanders have defeated Trump?
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 09:06PM -0500
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 21:15:37 -0800 (PST), Gracchus
>> > Ah, of course. Sanders just wanted to give the laziest bums from the underclass free handouts taken from the hands of those who worked hardest to ascend the economic ladder. I keep forgetting.
>> You have a real chip on your shoulder.
>Just me?
i'm insulted!
>> > > Now we're going to find out if Trump will actually help the working class or if he will continue to benefit the privileged (a more likely scenario.)
>> > Then you'll be singing his praises soon enough.
>> I've never had a problem with Trump's economic policies. I have a problem with the fact that he's a bully/narcissist/misogynist.
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 09:08PM -0500
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:00:26 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:
>But really most people (aside from Katy Perry, Lady gaga etc) consider
>these micro fringe issues & not big enough to not vote for him,
>considering the overall skills/attributes he brings to the role.
i'm very disappointed that so many of the A listers in hollywood that
promised to move to canada are now renegging on it. but there's hope,
kanye west (and i assume his kardashian ho) are promising to move!
1 west/kardashian is worth 100 streisands!
bob
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Trump will evacuate only criminal illegal immigrant
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Nov 11 02:19AM +0100
> I'll bet Obama was a gentleman, because he has infinitely more class than Trump. One can only hope that Trump will learn something from him.
> One of the most important things Trump needs to learn IMO is how to have a thicker skin. The president of the US is one of the most criticized people in the world, and if Trump can't handle it, and continues to throw a tantrum every time he is criticized, he (and we) are in for a bad run.
> When the idiot Philippine present Duterte said to Obama, "putang ina mo," Obama responded, "He's a colorful guy". Trump could learn from that, but he needs to rein in the little boy mentality, if that's possible.
That was ugly/rude but conveniently forgetting how Obama
approached him before that?
--
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Adriano Panatta on Djokovic
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Nov 10 05:44PM -0800
Way to embellish! That's not quite what he said about Federer! *rolls eyes* He said Federer was his favorite tennis player and that Federer hasn't been playing much lately.
"He finally spoke on his favourite tennis player, Roger Federer, who left the top-10 for the first time in 14 years: 'That's the true news, but he has not been playing for much time.' "
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/news/news/Novak_Djokovic/38137/adriano-panatta-murray-is-such-a-pusher-djokovic-has-a-problem-/
Also, there's nothing wrong with Djokovic hiring a motivational expert and it doesn't indicate psychological problems! *another eye-roll*
PeteWasLucky <Waleed.Khedr@gmail.com>: Nov 10 06:04PM -0800
Striptease high intelligence could not make sense of the link :)
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Democracy lost
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Nov 11 02:45AM +0100
> Oh but he said the opposite? If you believe him on that then you believe
> anything...
> The honeymoon with Putin will be quickly over. Trump's going nuclear, baby!
It is worth trying. If those relations aren't fixed now, they will
never be, so it's not a loss.
--
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Nov 11 02:29AM +0100
> President of the United States; she also predicted that he would be the
> last American president."
> Nuclear destruction?
Why so negative? Maybe Trump becomes a monarch.
--
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Nov 11 02:23AM +0100
> Putin is almighty and immortal, mythical creature that has resided on
> our planet for hundreds, if not thousands of years...
> https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/putin.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=664&h=441&crop=1
Well said!
--
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America Votes: One Mistake Too Many - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 08:58PM -0500
>> It's not Comey's fault that Hillary lost.
>It definitely is. He and Putin played important role.
>The margins in midwest and Florida were really small.
yep, most under 1%. felt great.
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 09:02PM -0500
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 20:48:07 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:
>> bob
>Yes, every opinion is welcome as long as it is backed by logical argument.
you trying to close RST down? :-)
bob
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Huge anti trump in NYC & Chicago right now
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 08:54PM -0500
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 20:07:03 -0800 (PST), Court_1
>> differential problem. fix that, mainly fix the problem. that's my
>> stance, and it's a serious one.
>And how will Trump fix the actual problem of income inequality? By perhaps creating jobs for many working class by bringing manufacturing jobs back from Mexico/China?
i hope so.
> That doesn't really address the specific income inequality issue. There will still be an income divide between the educated/non-educated. There will always be some degree of income inequality.
it would help. i grew up in detroit, many many skilled and unskilled
labor did very well for themselves and their family. my uncle had a
high school education, worked on the factory floor for ford motor. did
very well, retired young, house, boats, cars, whatnot. perhaps too
well, that's why detroit went under - but at same time their lives
were fairly equitable to other more skilled or educated workers.
>Politicians use this income inequality situation and how to "fix" it as a ruse to get mostly idiots to vote for them.
yes, clinton tried that didn't she.
> If people want to be paid more what they need is to be given an opportunity to succeed in a capitalist society. In this model some will succeed and earn more and others won't but don't bitch about the system if you are not able to better yourself when you are given opportunities.
>Do you think there should be some rule of law where all people from all educational backgrounds are paid exactly the same salaries by doing different jobs? Would that be fair?
>In short, how do you really put an end to income inequality and even if you better income inequality (which should be done IMO) won't there always be many people who complain? It's a conundrum which has no easy answers.
nobody said everyone is exactly equal. equal opportunity doesn't
guarantee equal results. but it needs to be more equitable than it is,
simple.
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 08:57PM -0500
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:20:28 +1100, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:
>> And how does Trump represent this? His plans are exactly the opposite ffs,
>You still don't get it. Trump *had* to buy Chinese steel etc to survive
>in business. He had no choice but to play by the rules of business.
very first month he decided to run, they (rubio) asked him about
making neck ties in mexico. he said if he didn't he'd be out of
business cause all his competitors do.
but as a president, he'd change the rules to make it possible for
everyone to make them in USA and compete fairly.
perfectly logical, but TT keeps going on about it.
>he'd have gone under - as president he can do a lot to *change* the
>rules. He's acutely aware of what can be done. Obama/Hillary may look
>& talk the part, but they have no fucking idea.
bob
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OT: can we just call him The Donald again
bob <bob@nospam.net>: Nov 10 08:50PM -0500
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 08:03:06 +0000, Brian W Lawrence
>Beethoven.
>C.J.: I didn't get where I am today by everything smelling of Bolivian
>unicyclist's jockstraps!
is that the name he used when he supposedly called in fake voice to
talk about something on air, was promoting his business or shops or
something? lol
bob
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