Q: I'm a woman who has struggled with masturbation for a while. I've talked to a bishop before and the experience was kind of awful. He was very uncomfortable and not very helpful, which made me feel even worse. It took a lot for me to talk to him, and it just made me feel more hopeless. He didn't have any advice or help, and seemed to just really not want to talk about it. He just told me to read my scriptures more and pray and I would be fine. After than, I just am not okay with talking about my sexual sins with a middle aged man. It makes me feel very spiritually unsafe. I don't have a problem with that bishop overall and I think he was doing his best, but his best really wasn't good enough.
I'm getting angry with the way the church handles sexuality for women. It's like it doesn't exist. The only time women get talked to about pornography, it's about how to handle dating/marrying men who have that problem. Why can't any leaders acknowledge this is also a female problem? That would make it easier to talk to them and might help them know what to do and say so that women don't feel so dejected.
I really want to have a better attitude about repentance, but I think I'm kind of bitter. I look at the support system that men have when they have similar struggles, and it makes me think that the church just cares a lot more about supporting men than women.
What can I do to both be less angry and find a way to feel forgiven for messing up occasionally? I'm really worried that if I go talk to my new bishop, the same thing will happen and I just won't be able to handle it.
- Uncertain
A:
Dear Doctor,
Linda S. Reeves gave an excellent talk on pornography in General Conference in April 2014 that addresses all, rather than just men or just women, that you may want to read. I do agree that the rhetoric on this has been less inclined to include females, but I believe that this as a whole is changing.
-Tally M.
A:
Dear Uncertain,
I'm really sorry to hear that you had such a negative experience in seeking help for this. I agree that there is definitely a false perception that pornography and masturbation are "male problems," both in the world and especially in the Church. In my experience in Young Women's, there was a lot of emphasis on intersex relations, specifically with appropriate boundaries to set before kissing goes too far, and pornography and masturbation were rarely mentioned, if at all. This can be difficult for a girl or woman who stuggles with these things, and young women who are introduced to the practices through other sources may not be as prepared to confront or deal with these sins. In many cases, girls come across it and don't even know they're doing something wrong at first.
This is definitely a difficult issue that needs to change. I know that in recent years, I've personally heard more about female masturbation and pornography on LDS blogs, with many Young Women's leaders talking about how they intended to teach about these issues clearly and simply in their lessons. I think change is happening, but it will take time. The old lesson manuals were written in the '70s, where that was a pretty popular perception throughout society. As generations of members learn from these lessons, the stereotype is reinforced.
I definitely agree with you that there is probably more support for males who struggle with masturbation and pornography. However, I think that in some ways, the current Church narrative about sexuality can cause problems for men as well. For instance, the idea that pornography and masturbation are "male problems" has caused some girls and women in the Church to unfairly demonize or distrust men, creating a narrative where they are slaves to their sex drives and in less control of themselves than women. This both paints women who struggle with this as unfeminine or unusual, and undercuts the moral agency of men and can put a disproportionate amount of blame on them.
Basically, I think that until we treat all issues of sexuality equitably between men and women, I think both genders experience unfair treatment and support in different ways. You are definitely getting the short end of the stick on the female side of the unfairness and I think it's completely unfair that you've been made to feel so dejected and bitter. My heart goes out to you.
We've had a lot of Board questions from females who have struggled with masturbation and/or pornography over the years. I wanted to refer you to these both so that you know you're not alone in this, and because many of the other writers word things a lot more eloquently than I'll ever be able to on these issues.
Board Question #69681 focuses mainly on the idea that we shouldn't be so ashamed to talk about these issues; people don't have nearly as much of a problem talking about the Word of Wisdom, for instance. An anonymous female writer shares her experience and says that she, too, found it hard to deal with the fact that some bishops thought of it as a "guy problem."
Board Question #50147 is written by a female reader who discovered masturbation on her own and didn't hear it was wrong until she was 14 in a Young Women's lesson. (Which I think demonstrates the issue of not talking to girls about it more.) She stopped immediately and fell back into the habit as an adult. She was still unsure of how serious it was or whether to talk to a bishop. The two male writers who responded gave great answers and passed no judgement on her because of her gender or because of the sin itself.
Board Question #53392 is written by a female reader with a pornography addiction. She really struggled with the fact that she felt like the issue was under-addressed to women. A female writer who struggled with masturbation expresses sympathy and support, while stating that it's still something that she, at least, knew deep down was wrong despite never being told about it. Waldorf and Sauron agree that it has been talked about in relation to men more often than women, but they also link to talks or quotes about pornography that were addressed to "male and female" or "brothers and sisters."
Board Question #52505 is by the friend of a girl who struggles with masturbation. An anonymous female writer chimes in to say that she also had a problem. Two male writers offer advice. I mainly bring this one up to show yet another example of more girls who have struggled, and because nobody ever acted like the gender of the person in question was relevant to how much of a sin it was or how it would be treated.
Board Question #71018 might be especially relevant to you - a female reader who has struggled with this wants to repent, but is incredibly embarrassed and stressed about talking to her bishop. Two anonymous writers answer; the first could be male or female, while the second identifies as female. She says she has talked to a number of bishops about masturbation, and that while not all of the experiences were positive, they all helped her to repent.
Board Question #72589 is a girl with a pornography addiction. She feels as though the prospect of repentance is daunting and is nervous about talking to a male bishop.
Board Question #44333 is a comment from a female reader who struggled with these things before knowing it was wrong. I really like how she says, "Just remember that you are responsible according to your knowledge. Repent when you need to and do everything you can to keep yourself close to the spirit. Avoid things that will trigger the emotions. And know that you're not alone! You and the Lord can overcome it together. I promise." To me, she offers hope that while the lack of a support system definitely impacted her, she was able to overcome it despite that.
Board Question #70051 is a girl who has not yet managed to put these things behind her and feels discouraged and hopeless. A writer who has struggled with similar things encourages her and promises her it gets better.
Board Question #68023 is by another girl. Her bishop encouraged her to repent and meet with him, but like your bishop, didn't offer many specifics about how to stop. She asks for advice and gets a lot of good suggestions on how to overcome these issues.
Board Question #44155 focuses specifically on how frustrated the reader is that she was never taught about pornography. The answers speculate on why it seems to be talked about more to men than women.
In Board Question #67648, Concealocanth links to a Young Women's lesson that "specifically mentions and asks leaders to define masturbation if any class members need clarification." To me, this suggests that a lot of the ways we treat female masturbation and pornography are the result of cultural perceptions or squirmish local leaders and teachers, not because the Church doesn't think women should be taught about this.
I was a writer when some of these answers were posted, and in the early draft of one of the answers I distinctly remember that an anonymous female writer talked about her experiences with bishops. She said that so many of them made her feel bad and didn't really offer helpful suggestions. However, she kept going to her bishops whenever she struggled, and she finally found one who looked at it differently. He was compassionate and helped her see her struggles in a new way, giving her hope and helping her to improve for the first time. I know you had a bad experience with your bishop, but I want to promise you that they're not all like that. The Atonement doesn't just cover your sins; it also covers your pain, bitterness, and grief. The Lord wants you to be able to come unto Him and feel cleansed. He wants to lift these burdens from you so that you can feel able to overcome these struggles and move past it.
I'd like to leave two scriptures with you in closing, Ezekiel 18:21-32 and 2 Nephi 26:24-28, 33. They're both scriptures that have helped me to understand that the Lord is compassionate and loving even when we have sinned, instead of being angry. Repentance and forgiveness aren't something we have to pry out of the Lord's unwilling hands; He really, really wants to allow us to be cleansed, even to the point of suffering beyond all comprehension to make it possible. He wants to help you. You may not trust your bishops, but you can trust the Lord. As you build that trust and ask Him for help, He can give you the strength and grace to do anything that is necessary to eventually feel clean and pure again.
-Zedability
A:
Dear, beautiful you,
As Zed's list of previous Board questions above suggests, you are not alone. I could have written this question myself. I'd like to share some of the things I've learned from talking with my own bishop.
It takes a lot of gumption to go to him at all, and when his response is unhelpful, unfeeling, or insensitive, it makes you want to curl up in a ball and die. Like the writer below me says, your willingness to continue meeting with your bishop and future priesthood leaders is a show of real humility, a way to tell Heavenly Father that you will choose his will over your own comfort or desires. It's definitely important to go talk to him because he holds the keys to help you repent.
It's also important, however, to seek other help where you feel comfortable. Open up to your mom or your sister or a roommate or a counselor about it. Talk about it - please, please talk about it. Like Zedability, I sense that our culture is starting to move toward a more open discourse on sexuality, but we need women like you who are determined not to let the cycle repeat itself. I started masturbating when I was seven or eight, but I didn't have a name for it or know that it was wrong or even that other people did it too until I was sixteen. What impacted me the most during my first meeting with a bishop was an emphatic rhetorical question: "And when you are a mother and a young women's leader and a Relief Society president, you will not let the same thing happen to those under your stewardship, will you?"
Please remember that your Heavenly Father does not expect immediate perfection. Satan will always try to sow seeds of bitterness and despair, especially when we want so badly to be good but keep falling into sin - it's one of his most powerful tools. Do not lose faith in the repentance process. Meeting once with your bishop won't solve your problem; it takes consistent, concerted effort and, yes, multiple difficult conversations to defeat your dragons once and for all. Keep showing faith and keep pressing forward. We're all cheering for you.
-a writer
A:
Dear Uncertain,
I wanted to make sure I addressed everything you said, so I took your question and broke it up into chunks.
I've talked to a bishop before and the experience was kind of awful. He was very uncomfortable and not very helpful, which made me feel even worse. It took a lot for me to talk to him, and it just made me feel more hopeless.
While bishops are inspired as judges in Israel, they are also individuals. They vary tremendously in their personal experience, cultural perceptions, and level of sensitivity or tact. I've found that my experience has been reasonably varied between my different priesthood leaders. Sometimes they said things that made me feel bad, like treating it as a male-only problem and like I was some kind of exception. That just made me feel worse about myself. Other times, I could tell they were loving and understanding, but they were also very uncomfortable, which actually made me feel worse than the first reaction. However, they have also been loving and wanted to help.
In my experience, what has helped to minimize the negativity of those experiences is to look at meeting with a bishop as an obligation I have to the Lord and his representative. We are taught that only the Lord can forgive sins, but some things need to be confessed to priesthood leaders. I personally look at talking to my bishop as a way to demonstrate my faith, humility, and sincere repentance to the Lord. I know if I'm willing to talk to a bishop despite how uncomfortable it may be, I'm willing to do whatever else the Lord requires of me, and I can trust that I've done all I can and be forgiven. I trust the Lord to inspire the bishop, and sometimes it takes a lot of trust.
As an example, I once had a very strict priesthood leader. I heard him talk a lot about how he would meet with young adults, and ask if they'd committed whatever sin they'd done before, and when they said they had but they'd repented, he's say "No, if you had repented, you wouldn't have done it again!" To me, this seemed like a very harsh attitude against slipping up. I had slipped up recently and it took me so long to gather the courage to talk to him, as I was so sure he was going to react that way. To my surprise, when I visited him, he took a lot of time to think and listen to the Spirit before responding. He told me that he felt like I was fine in this case and to just keep on doing the right thing, and to always feel free to talk to him if I ever wanted to talk more. It was completely the opposite reaction I expected and it showed me that the Lord really can inspire our leaders.
However, even if he hadn't listened to the Spirit and had reacted differently, I still would have done my part and I would have been able to trust that the Lord would help me set things right in time. And who knows, maybe the "You didn't repent" reaction really was inspired for someone else's situation and I just didn't know it.
He didn't have any advice or help, and seemed to just really not want to talk about it. He just told me to read my scriptures more and pray and I would be fine. After that, I just am not okay with talking about my sexual sins with a middle aged man. It makes me feel very spiritually unsafe. I don't have a problem with that bishop overall and I think he was doing his best, but his best really wasn't good enough.
That was also some of the first and only advice I ever got, and initially I thought it was pretty useless. It took me a really long time to realize how much of an impact it really can have. Actually studying the scriptures every single day and praying every morning and night takes a lot of effort, self-discipline, and planning, at least for me. When I do this, I am making a huge effort to put spiritual things first in my life, and the amount I feel the Spirit is amazing. The more you bring the Spirit into your life, the more protected you will be from slipping up. I can promise you that.
Some people find a bishop who really gets along with them, and can continually offer them advice and guidance. I never really found that in any of my bishops, and ended up figuring out how to stop mainly on my own. My priesthood leaders ended up almost exclusively playing the role of "person I confess to." And I think that's okay. That's the only thing a bishop can do that nobody else can do. Other people, like counselors, parents, or even close friends, can provide helpful advice too. I never tried to avoid letting the bishop give me advice or to minimize his role; he just didn't offer a lot of concrete suggestions, so I looked for other methods of support to supplement meeting with him.
I have never personally attended an ARP meeting, but I have close female friends who have attended for pornography and masturbation issues. They say it played a huge role in helping them to apply the Atonement in their lives and overcome this struggle. I don't think you have to divulge what your specific struggle is, and people attend for all kinds of things - Word of Wisdom issues, eating disorders, problems with the Law of Chastity, gambling, and a host of other trials. Nobody in that room will judge you because they're all there for something themselves.
What helped me, personally, the most was to figure out why I masturbated. What were the most common triggers, and how could I recognize and deal with them before I got to a place where I was too tempted? I learned a lot about myself and all sorts of things I didn't think were related. In the end, I think it was a good experience for me in a lot of ways. I did a lot of reflecting, a lot of praying, and most of all, I tried to build my relationship with Jesus Christ and apply the Atonement in my life.
And I can promise you it really works. There was a time where I thought I would never be able to overcome this, never be able to stop slipping up. But now it's been almost two years, and I am completely confident that it will be a lot longer than that. It is possible, I promise you that.
I'm getting angry with the way the church handles sexuality for women. It's like it doesn't exist. The only time women get talked to about pornography, it's about how to handle dating/marrying men who have that problem. Why can't any leaders acknowledge this is also a female problem? That would make it easier to talk to them and might help them know what to do and say so that women don't feel so dejected.
As the writers above me have discussed, I think it's slowly improving. As Zedability says, part of the problem is that cultural perceptions are self-perpetuating over the decades. Bishops don't attend every law of chastity meeting in Young Women's or Relief Society, and they might not even realize the extent to which it isn't addressed. Because it isn't addressed, fewer women realize they're doing something wrong or feel comfortable coming to talk to their bishop about it. As a result, he sees fewer women than men with that problem, and believes that's the way it is. He then places less emphasis on teaching it in YW/RS, and the cycle continues.
However, that's exactly why people like you and me need to be open and willing to talk to our priesthood leaders. We're the ones who can help change things. I mentioned to one bishop that I had never heard masturbation talked about in YW until I watched a video that was meant for all the youth, and that was literally the only time I heard it was wrong. He seemed genuinely surprised by that and promised to talk to the YW leaders. (I had graduated from YW at that point.) Because of that, I have hope that the next generation of YW won't make the same mistake I did in ignorance, and that they'll have more support than I did if they do.
Try not to focus on the problem and how it affects you; focus on how you have the opportunity to be part of the solution.
I really want to have a better attitude about repentance, but I think I'm kind of bitter. I look at the support system that men have when they have similar struggles, and it makes me think that the church just cares a lot more about supporting men than women. What can I do to both be less angry?
As I said above, attending an ARP will definitely help you feel supported, accepted, and loved. They are totally open to both genders and I promise that you won't be the first woman to attend a meeting for that specific problem.
Remember that Christ didn't just suffer for your sins. He also suffered for all of the pain and bitterness that you would feel as a result of this. Just as He can help you to be forgiven and take away the guilt from your heart, He can also lift the bitterness. Pray and ask to feel Heavenly Father's love for you. He loves you even with the mistakes you've made. When you have a testimony of His love, you will understand that none of this inequality is because He cares less about supporting women than men. It comes from imperfect people who are trying to do their best. You can trust that Heavenly Father knew you would need a support system, and that He will prepare a way for you to overcome this even if the support isn't immediately forthcoming.
And find a way to feel forgiven for messing up occasionally? I'm really worried that if I go talk to my new bishop, the same thing will happen and I just won't be able to handle it.
I heard an analogy once that said something like: "Imagine that one day someone came to you and told you that you'd been singing Christmas carols wrong your whole life. Instead of "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer," you ought to be singing, "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Buffalo." They told you it was extremely serious and important to sing the right version. You would probably feel chagrined and maybe even guilty that you'd been singing the wrong version all your life, and possibly angry that nobody thought to warn you away from the pernicious, worldy influence of "reindeer." You would immediately apply yourself to learning to sing the proper lyrics. At first, it might feel strange or difficult, but in time, the words "buffalo" would become an automatic habit. However, it's not unreasonable to suggest that once in a while, your brain might slip and the word "reindeer" might come out once in a while.
In an innocent situation such as this, we can understand how such a slip might happen even with the purest of intent to only sing "buffalo." The problem is that so many of us react like, "Oh no, I can't believe I said "reindeer." Only a terrible person would say "reindeer." I said I was never going to sing "reindeer" again but I did and I'm never going to be able to stop saying "reindeer!""
It's kind of a silly analogy, but I think it makes the good point that there's a big difference between slipping up and deliberately returning to a sin. Obviously, we need to do the best we can to always, always guard against making a mistake. When we do, however, God is compassionate. He loves you. He doesn't expect you to run faster than you have strength. If you can go two months, and then three months, and then four months, etc., with longer and longer gaps between slipping up, I can promise you that at some point, you will break free of the habit, and the last gap will last for years or even forever.
I can promise that if you're not feeling forgiven, talking to your bishop and feeling the relief of knowing you did what you were supposed to do is worth it. Just keep in mind that you are going because of your responsibility to the Lord and to fufill His terms of repentance. Every time I slip up, it seems so hard and scary and impossible to talk to a bishop, despite the fact after I feel forgiven I always know it was the right choice and wish I'd done it sooner. I know it can be hard to work up the courage. You can pray for that too. The Lord wants you to make the right decision and He will support you.
I don't want to put my identity out on a public forum like this, but I want you to be able to get in touch with me if you ever have questions, or would just like some support and to feel like you're not alone in this. Yayfulness has agreed to forward me any email from you if you ever want to get in touch - just email him at yayfulness(at)theboard(dot)byu(dot)edu and he'll pass it on to me.
A Writer
A:
Dear me too,
I don't have all the answers or even necessarily good answers for you, but I wanted to let you know that I, too, have struggled with masturbation and it is possible to get out! And not only is it possible, it is one hundred percent worth it. I know how it feels to be constantly hiding this and constantly guilty and constantly arguing with yourself about whether or not to go to the bishop. But going to the bishop is a necessary part of the repentance process. And let me tell you, it really is an amazing feeling to have it over with, and to finally be free of all the guilt and worry.
It is so hard and so embarrassing to talk about sins like this with a middle-aged man, especially since as you mentioned most people don't seem to realize that things like this can be a female problem as well. But this isn't just any middle-aged man, this is the Lord's representative.
You know that the Lord is telling you to go in and talk to your bishop. Before you do, pray. Ask the Lord to inspire this bishop. Ask Him to truly make this bishop His representative. Ask Him to speak through the bishop. Tell Him you sincerely want to be over the guilt, and tell Him you're worried about losing it if this doesn't go well. The Lord wants to be able to forgive you, and He certainly is not the one encouraging you to be worried about what your new bishop will say. He knew that you would come to this point with this bishop, and hopefully He has prepared this bishop to respond in the correct way to you.
But if not, KEEP TRYING. Even if this bishop doesn't respond how you need him to, it doesn't mean that no one ever will and you'll never be able to get over this. The Lord knows that you are trying, and He appreciates your sincere efforts. He knows what it took to go see the bishop and He knows that you're trying to get on the repentance path. I would also recommend telling the bishop what you really need. If he says read your scriptures and pray, you can say look, I understand that you're uncomfortable talking about this, but this is a real problem and I need to know what other support is available.You could also ask about counseling with another member of the bishopric or someone in the stake presidency.
Even if the culture of the church doesn't seem to, the Lord knows that women struggle with sexual sin too. And even if everyone thinks the support systems of the church are just for men, they aren't! Addiction recovery and pornography support groups can still be used by women. And you can be one of the people who helps to raise awareness of this problem for women, so that people talk about it in Sunday School and Relief Society and support becomes more available.
It's okay to have questions about things and to be frustrated with how things work in the church. Just make sure that you turn to the Lord instead of to bitterness and anger. I find that the best way to turn to the Lord with my questions is to be completely honest and clear with myself about what my questions are. Then as I pray about them, I try to be willing to listen to whatever answer the Lord gives, and I try to be okay to wait until He knows I'm ready for the answer. There are problems with the culture and people of the church, no one's denying that. But that doesn't mean that the gospel isn't true. The Lord's love is still real. The repentance process still works. And I know that even though it includes the huge awkwardness of telling a middle-aged man that you masturbate, it is worth it. Be brave and go to your bishop! Keep asking questions and keep searching faithfully for answers. Everything will turn out for the best if you continue to work with the Lord.
Sincerely,
A friend who knows
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