Hello again all Sonex eGroups-
Sonex Aircraft, LLC has decided to end all company-moderated Yahoo Groups
forums effective Friday, March 28th, and all Sonex-related forum traffic
will be moved to the forums at
moderated by the Sonex Builders and Pilots Foundation. Anyone interested in
retrieving any archived files or posts from Sonex Aircraft Yahoo Groups may
do so prior to March 28th, at which time they will be removed.
This decision has not been made on a whim and not without thorough internal
discussion and consideration in conjunction with the Sonex Builders and
Pilots Foundation over the past several weeks.
A representative of the Sonex company has read every post on these Yahoo
Groups forums since the original sonexbuilders online discussion group was
established (by a builder) in early 1999. Sonex became the moderator of
these groups in late 1999. We established the sonextalk forum for a clean
start to these groups in mid-2002. This means the open-to-all Sonex e-mail
group has been continuously operating and (fairly loosely) moderated by
Sonex for over 15 years!
Sonex has also maintained two engine eGroups continuously for about the same
amount of time. The JabiruEngines group was started in early 2001 and the
AeroVee group in early 2002. The plan-only groups were established in
mid-2001 (sonexplans), mid-2005 (waiexplans and xenosplans), and mid-2011
The JabiruEngines Group was established to provide stability in the
marketplace at a time before Jabiru USA became the go-to dealer in the US
Market. Since this group takes the least amount of effort for Sonex to
maintain, we are going to continue this group until there is no longer
interest from the Jabiru Engine Community in its continuation.
These Yahoo Groups served their intended purpose for many years. They proved
to be a great place to get the latest company news and announcements, as
well as Sonex factory building hints and tips (particularly when there was
only one Sonex flying...the factory prototype..and then 2, and then 3...).
The groups made for a great source of help on nights and weekends when the
factory was closed, provided a place to post real-time plan updates and
revisions, was the perfect place to promote Sonex events, and provided a
conduit to collect and respond to feedback from builders, pilots, and
prospective customers. The Yahoo Groups also built camaraderie throughout
the builder community.
Over the years, however, technology has changed and the Sonex company has
changed with it. The Yahoo Groups format and architecture has become
severely outdated in comparison to modern forums such as sonexbuilders.net
and others. Additionally, the reasons for having company-managed lists have
slowly dwindled as all of these purposes were filled by other outlets:
*Latest company news and announcements:
Now Posted to the Sonex Web Site (almost all company news is posted here
first, then copied and pasted to the groups):
*Sonex factory building hints and tips:
Over the years, Sonex has collected up the factory building hints and tips
and either integrated them into the plans for each aircraft, created a
"Hints for Homebuilder" video in partnership with EAA, and/or created
additional instructions in the manuals or separate downloadable instruction
sheets. It also should be noted that most of the engine-related product
manuals are now available for free download to those desiring the latest
versions and/or those shopping for a Sonex to see the high quality of
documentation provided with
every product we sell:
* Help on nights and weekends when the factory is closed:
Many builders have already moved over to the Sonex Builders and Pilots
Foundation supported Sonexbuilders.net forums as a source for builder advice
with many experienced Sonex builders and pilots actively monitoring this
group and providing the same excellent advice as they have on the Yahoo
groups. A steadily growing Sonex builder community over the past 16-years
means there's more experience available to new builder's than ever.
* Plan updates and revisions:
Sonex plan updates and revisions were moved to the Sonex factory's web site
long ago. While these updates and revisions are no longer posted to the
groups, builders can subscribe to the Technical Updates Mailing List for
alerts when revisions are made and posted:
* Both Sonex company events and builder organizations and event listings can
be found on our web site:
Sonex Company Events:
Sonex Builder Organizations and Events:
http://www.sonexaircraft.com/builders/b ... vents.html
*A conduit to receive customer feedback:
This long-standing "cultural norm" of Sonex Aircraft will continue
regardless of the eGroup location. This will continue with Sonex Aircraft's
participation in the sonexbuilders.net forums. Customer feedback will
continue to be collected and used at every level of Sonex Aircraft to
provide what's most important to us: a product line that continues to
improve and expand to fit customer's interests.
Please note that we anticipate the new forums to grow quickly with a wide
range of topics and volume of postings in general. It will be impossible for
the Sonex Factory to follow all of these threads. Because of this, it will
be more important than ever with this new format to contact the Sonex
Factory directly when you are looking for our response.
*Building camaraderie throughout the builder community:
This camaraderie will also continue to be built and improved (as it has for
a few years now) with the new sonexbuilders.net forum. The growth of
grass-roots builder events and Sonex Aircraft's expanded support of these
events with company personnel, aircraft, and donated resources seek to
further expand the "family feeling" that the Sonex community has been famous
for. The Sonex Builders and Pilots Foundation has done an excellent job in
creating an enthusiastic, positive environment for Sonex Aircraft builders
and pilots to share their passion. It is important to note that
Sonexbuilders.net is much-more actively moderated, using peer moderation
instead of Sonex factory moderation to keep those with extremely negative
and toxic attitudes and agendas in-check. Some of these individuals have
been allowed to unfairly dominate discussions via the Yahoo Groups
architecture, which is a major contributing factor toward the decision to
make this change.
The Sonex Company itself has also grown significantly since these eGroups
were first established. Through the course of that growth, our staff has
become much more specialized with different individuals (and groups of
individuals) handling different inquiries depending upon what is needed. The
shear volume and diversity of topics being covered with 4 established
airframe models (and a 5th arriving soon in the SubSonex), a growing engine
company, and 3 distinctly different major Research and Development Projects
(SubSonex, Turbo AeroVee, and E-Flight Electric) have severely outgrown the
current e-mail lists using the Yahoo format.
All of the factors above have led us to the decision to make this move to
SonexBuilders.net, and we feel the new forum structure can improve things in
the following ways:
* It is moderated by members of the Sonex Community. This will save Sonex
company time and resources which will be focused on maximizing one-on-one
customer service, continual quality improvement, new products, factory
tours, t-flights, and a wide range of other company activities and
* A significant reduction or even elimination of toxic negative and can't-do
posts via more aggressive peer moderation.
* As mentioned above, help on nights and weekends can still be had from
experienced builders who have been there, done that. Those that build
successfully while maintaining a positive and helpful attitude will continue
to become trusted peer advisors as the Sonex community continues it's
growth. Those trusted peer advisors will continue to have more reach and
effectiveness in the Sonex community via the Sonex Builders and Pilots
Foundation, Sonexbuilders.net, and other builder organizations such as the
ASA, FSA, etc.
* By way of removing the Sonex company control of the forum, more
freedom can and will be allowed for all kinds of builder customizations to
That brings up a few questions that we'd like to proactively answer in the
form of a few Q+A's:
Q1:What is the Sonex community losing with the impending end to the Sonex
company-run Yahoo Groups?
A1: Not much of anything from our perspective. We see this change as a
win-win for everyone.
Q2: What happens in the event that Sonexbuilders.net goes away?
A2: We are confident this is not going to happen as the Sonex Builders and
Pilots Foundation has proven itself a diverse and viable organization
dedicated to the single purpose of serving its members and the Sonex
community at-large. If this organization was ever threatened or in danger of
no longer existing, Sonex Aircraft, LLC would put a very visible link on our
SonexAircraft.com web site with instructions to sign up for a new forum that
we would create immediately.
Q3: Is the new forum moderated?
A3: Yes, and the forum’s architecture allows you to narrow your focus to the
topic areas that interest you most. The Sonex foundation will be actively
moderating in their peer-to-peer environment to maintain and grow the high
level of courtesy, enthusiasm and can-do spirit that the Sonex community has
become known for. We are confident that those who derive all of their
pleasure by making other people miserable with toxic attitudes and agendas
will be made to feel unwelcome, and/or will be shown the door by their
Q4: If I don't want to join the Sonexbuilders.net Forum, what are my best
options for keeping up with Sonex news?
A4: While Sonex will continue to make company announcements in a special
section of the Sonexbuilders.net forum, we have two other ways to
keep up with the latest Sonex news:
1. Join the Sonex opt-in mailing lists and/or news feeds. This automatically
keeps you updated with the latest news for the topic areas you're most
interested in by e-mailing you every time there is a web site update:
2. Bookmark and check back the Sonexaircraft.com web site regularly. The
news section on the main page keeps a running history of all significant
Q5: What if I have a question for the Sonex factory that I need answered?
A5: Please contact us directly! We are here to help you and want feedback to
continue to come directly to us. Contact information and instructions for
all-types of inquiries to Sonex Aircraft, LLC can be found at:
The Yahoo Groups have seen us through a great 16 years of operations for
Sonex Aircraft, LLC. With the help of the Sonex Builders and Pilots
Foundation, Sonexbuilders.net, and our talented and dedicated staff, we're
deeply committed to making the next 16 (and beyond) even better!
As always, please feel free to contact any member of the Sonex Team at the
numbers or e-mail below with any questions or Comments.
Sonex Aircraft, LLC
Tel (Info/Orders): 920.231.8297
Tel (Tech Line): 920.230.8324
Sonex Aircraft, LLC's Mission is to provide the recreational aviation
community innovative, cost-effective and efficient aircraft kits,
powerplants, and accessories and support them with industry-leading customer
In addition, Sonex provides leadership to the grass-roots homebuilt
community to protect the experimental-amateur built rules and cultivates new
pilots and airplane builders through educational efforts.
Please use the following e-mails to Contact Sonex Aircraft:
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Statistics: Posted by sonexpilot — Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:54 pm