By Brian Ives
Several times in Slipknot/Stone Sour frontman Corey Taylor‘s latest book, You’re Making Me Hate You, he notes that he does not give a f—. Having read the book (and also having interviewed him a number of times) I realize that he actually does give a f—. In fact, he gives many f—s (and I suggest this to him during our conversation). He gives f—s about both of his bands, about the state of heavy metal, and about the Star Wars and Star Trek franchises.
Perhaps surprisingly to those who see him only as the fearsome frontman of Slipknot, he also gives f—s about being a good dad, and and being a good dude. The book could have been called “A Metal Icon’s Guide To Manners.”
In recent weeks, I got to see Taylor perform in two radically different settings: first, at a solo show at New York’s Irving Plaza. He was supposed to do a reading from the book; instead he started talking about stuff that he’ll use for the sequel (Kanye West and selfie sticks have gotten on his nerves lately). It was, essentially really, really good standup comedy. Then, he strapped on an acoustic guitar and played songs from his catalog, along with covers of the Cure, the Eagles, Prince and Green Day.
Related: Slipknot’s Corey Taylor Covers the Cure’s ‘Lovesong’ on Acoustic Tour: Watch
Then, I went to see him at Jones Beach Theatre in Long Island with Slipknot, where he kept north of 10,000 metal heads in the palm of his hand for nearly two hours. Even in that context, he spoke about family values: he referred to the audience as his “family.” It turns out that the frontman for one of the baddest bands in the land is actually a pretty warm guy. Just don’t say it to his face.
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(Maria Ives for Radio.com)
First things first: in your book, you talk about a metal band who is incredibly derivative. Any chance you’ll say who they are?
No; the band I’m talking about, whoever that band is, I’m friends with them. But if you’re that blatant about it, you know, I’m an a******. I’m gonna say something about it.
I love the fact that you still love metal so much that a band being derivative makes you so mad. Do you get angry when an older band lets you down with a new album?
What I’ve found with some of the bands I kind of grew up with listening to, with every new album you kinda go back and you appreciate the last album more. Like when [Metallica‘s] Load and Re-load came out, they made me appreciate “The Black Album” [Metallica’s self-titled 1991 album] even more.
And being friends with all those guys, it makes it kind of weird at first, like “Uh, I don’t know [about your new album].” But you can’t stop being a music fan. But yeah, it’s awkward.
Related: Not Fade Away: Re-evaluating Metallica’s ‘St. Anger,’ 10 Years Later
What did you think about St. Anger?
If that album had different production, it would’ve been completely different because the Special Edition that came out had the live DVD of them in the rehearsal playing the songs, with completely different production, and some of those songs were really good. I can’t listen to the album, though, ’cause that snare drum sound…. sorry. Lars, I love you, but that snare is s—. But then they came back with Death Magnetic, which I love. I love that album. I’ve gotten in a lot of arguments with people who are like, “That’s not Metallica.” It’s like: they’re older now. You’re not 17 anymore, either!
(Maria Ives for Radio.com)
When you’re older, it’s also harder to get into younger bands.
See, I’m on the other side of that because I get to see a lot of bands in their environment, live. Gallows is a perfect example of that. That Grey Britain album is so good. I mean it’s rough, it’s greasy, it’s pissed off, the production is amazing, and they wear their English on their sleeve. They don’t care, they’re like, “We’re not trying to fit in and be kind of just mediocre so we can fit in with everybody. We’re British, and we don’t care.” And I love that; I love the attitude there.
In the book, you stress the importance of heavy metal fans knowing the history of the genre. I know I used to want to know everything about the roots of metal. I don’t know if younger fans feel that way.
I think there’s a resistance today, and I don’t know if it was like that before. ’Cause when I was growing up, if I heard about people’s influences, I went and checked them out. Now, I think people are resistant to anything that feels historical, that feels dated. Maybe because there’s such a divide between our generation and this generation, just because it’s much more stand-offish. They’re the first generation to have this digital thumb in their mouth, you know, the little brats. You can hate me all you want, I don’t give a f—. Sorry, I just blacked out with rage.
I used to always go back and check out artists who my favorites cited as influences; I got into Louis Armstrong because Flea talked about him in interviews.
That’s the thing, I think music comes to you; you don’t go to music. And once you find it, that’s how you can genuinely like appreciate it, enjoy it, you know? I got into jazz because I saw the Ken Burns documentary, honestly. I’d never really given it a chance because it was so foreign to me. But then watching that documentary and really listening to people describe what jazz means to them, I was like, “I gotta check this out.” And I was sold from that second on.
Back to the book: when I was reading it, I was thinking you could have called it “People = S—” [the name of a Slipknot song].
I think the band would’ve gotten pissed at me though.
Does the band mind all of the stuff that you do outside of Slipknot?
No, not really. The cool thing is that we kind of encourage each other to kinda do whatever. It’s one of the reasons why when we bring stuff into Slipknot, it feels different, because if some of us have all these crazy outlets where we can kind of do our own thing, and then when we bring it into Slipknot, it becomes completely different. It gets kind of shredded through the Slipknot machine and becomes something different. It just feels innovative in a way and exciting.
Related: Corey Taylor, Scott Ian, Lzzy Hale Sound Off on ‘This Is Your Life’ Ronnie James Dio Tribute
So nobody’s ever kind of gotten down on me for doing whatever. In a lot of ways they’re stoked about it. So for me to get that encouragement, and not only from the fans, but from bandmates, it just kind of makes you wanna do more, you know? Because for me, I don’t have a jealous bone in my body for anybody in the band. If they wanna do something, and it blows up, absolutely, that’s great. It’s killer. I’ll be the first one to promote it, you know.
(Maria Ives for Radio.com)
You’re Making Me Hate You is your third book; I have to think that your publisher wants you to write your memoirs at some point.
You know, nobody’s asked me to do an autobiography yet, which is fine, because I’m only 41. I’ll write that when I’m like 80 — knock on metal. But the great thing about my publishing company is they give me carte blanche, basically. They’re like, “Your fans just wanna hear you. So what are your feelings?”
I said, “Well, I’m really angry, so let’s just get the ‘angry old man’ book out of the way.” And boy, did it. I didn’t realize how angry it was, until I was doing the audio version, and I was like, “Whoa, I wrote that?” It’s my “get off my lawn” book.
I feel like you rant in your book because you actually expect decency out of people. The danger of high expectations is that you’ll often be let down.
Maybe that’s a valid point, but at the same time, if I don’t expect that, then what does that say about me? Is it too much to expect common courtesy from people? Is it too much to expect that people are gonna pay attention to anything else besides themselves?
I’m going out of my way to make sure that I’m courteous to people, polite to people, I’m not a jerk. I’m not the clichéd rock star guy. I actually have a very solid moral ground that I filter everything through.
Anyway, It’s not too much to ask THAT YOU USE YOUR TURN SIGNAL WHEN YOU MAKE A TURN!
(Maria Ives for Radio.com)
You wrote a bit about a rude lady who wouldn’t get off her cellphone while she was ordering at Starbucks.
That lady! Let me tell you something, dude. I remember exactly where it was, and I’m just standing there like, “Really? Order the drink and get out of the way. Get off your phone!”
I think that not valuing other people’s times is one of the worst infractions against basic manners.
And it’s getting worse. It’s really getting worse, and I’d like to know why.
You write a bit about being a parent. Are you a strict father?
I try to be. I have a certain amount of guilt because of how much time I spend away from my son, you know. I just want our time together to be quality time. It can’t just be me riding his a** all the time. So it’s a weird balance, especially now. He’s gonna be 13. So he’s become a teenager. Luckily, he hasn’t told me to go get stuffed yet.
But being a dad, man, the thing that I’ve realized is that if you don’t care, nothing will happen. When you do care, it can go either way. You can either overcompensate or you can just be a hard-ass. So for me it’s just about that balance. Like, I wanna hang out with my son, but I’m not trying to be friends with my son. You’re not supposed to be friends with your kids; you’re supposed to be a parent first. You wanna be friends later, raise them right, then be friends with them. But for now it’s getting them from point A to point B, alive, and not as a jerk.
So yeah, it’s hard, man, ’cause I love hanging out with him, but at the same time you’ve gotta instill that stuff, and if it means that he resents you a little bit later, so be it. At least you’re trying to do your best to raise a good, decent human being.
I imagine he’d appreciate that later on.
I hope!
(Maria Ives for Radio.com)
But he’s growing up very differently from the way you grew up, without a father around; you were raised by your grandmother.
Yeah, ’cause I didn’t have anybody else, really. I mean, it was hard, man. And I don’t like to harp on that, because so many people use it as a cop-out or as an excuse to be a s—-y human being, but for me it’s not about that. At least I had somebody, you know?
My grandma was always my rock; she was always my foundation, and she’s the one that instilled in me my work ethic, which is just: go, go, go. Make sure your family’s taken care of; everything else after that is extra, you know. And if you can get a little extra, that’s cool, but just make sure your kids are taken care of and there’s a roof over their heads.
Another thing I know that has pissed you off is Kanye West.
Kanye went out and said he was the greatest rock ’n’ roll star of all time, and I said, “If you have to say that, you’re not. Sorry.” It’s like the dude who brags about getting p—y. You certainly ain’t getting that much if you have to brag about it. It’s like that gif where he’s at the basketball game, and he’s like laughing and being human, and all of a sudden he sees the camera [scowls]. Like really, dude? Come on. Just be yourself. Stop treating your life like a movie. But everybody’s like that. And it’s infuriating.
“Bad music” really makes you angry as well.
Bad music makes me feel like I’m being stung by bees. Like it’s so bad. Once the Auto Tune kicks in, I’m out. If I can’t shut it off, I’ll leave wherever I am, because it just hurts.
If you can’t do it, don’t do it. If you don’t have the talent to do it, shut up. I can play drums; I don’t need Beat Detective. I can sing; I don’t need Auto Tune. I can play guitar; I don’t need somebody to fix it and make it perfect; it’s not about being perfect. There’s something perfect in the imperfection.
That’s why old music still holds up. All this music today is so disposable. There are artists who were huge last year, nobody can even remember their names this year. It’s ridiculous.
Have you ever seen the film Idiocracy?
Yes! I quote that all the time. It’s so scary how dead-on it is, too. The part where we were destroying all the crops by using Gatorade or Powerade ’cause “It’s got everything the body needs.” Well, what is that? Well, it’s what the body needs. Well, what is it? Well, it’s got it. Just this circular—it’s so ridiculous, you know. That terrifies me, by the way. Because it’s so prescient it’s not even funny.
How important was it to include the chapter “Hello Pot, I’m Kettle” in your book, where you took aim at yourself?
Very. Because if you don’t do something like that, then you’re just a self-righteous prick, basically. I’m just as bad, and just as culpable, as anybody. But I’m at least trying to fix it. I’m watch people just stumble through their lives, just not cognizant of what’s going on. And it’s scary.
Like, people wonder why we’re so severe towards each other. It’s because we’re cocooning digitally. We have no social skills; we have no sense of politics, of social commentary. And it’s gotten to the point in this country where you can’t say anything without a thousand watchdog groups tearing you apart, you know?
This country was founded on the point that you can say what you want. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with it.
(Maria Ives for Radio.com)
Many of the people who complain about political correctness are white straight males though: those are the people who are least likely to be discriminated against. On the other hand, everyone seems so sensitive to everything.
Stephen Merchant just talked about that. He’s a wonderful comedian; he said that it’s no fun to tour in America anymore. Never mind like the hot button stuff, you know, the real stuff that really does need to be addressed. There’s things that he has said about marriage, and he’ll get complaints. Really? That stuff was comedy fodder generations ago, and now we’re getting upset about it. Are you kidding me? If we can’t talk about married couples anymore, what’s the point of comedy? I mean, Christ!
It’s really hard to be funny if you’re not making fun of someone.
Well, and that’s the thing. I mean, the comedy, some comedy comes from a place that you don’t wanna talk about, you know? It’s that simple.
You say throughout the book that you don’t give a f—. I think that you actually give many f—s; you care a lot.
Yeah, unfortunately, I’m a giant a—— when it comes to that. I care way too much.
That seems to be a big part of your personality.
No, you’re right, and I do my best to—trust me, if I could just let it go, I wouldn’t have written this book.
I know you hate the term “YOLO.”
Because it’s so thrown away. It’s like nobody uses it when it comes to like jumping out of an airplane or you know, sailing a yacht across like the Indian Ocean or anything. They use it for something like, “C’mon, man, jump over the car. YOLO! YOLO!” Right?
There was a video on YouTube, this little girl is looking at a treadmill that’s moving really fast, and this guy who’s filming it is going “Come on! Come on, just jump on it! YOLO! YOLO!”
And I’m like, “Really?” You only live once to jump onto a speeding treadmill and f— your face up. Really? That’s how you use YOLO?
I tend to check out cooler stuff. I haven’t, you know, smashed my face up on a treadmill. It’s just, it’s the way that people trivialize something that should be so poignant. I’ve jumped out of an airplane, and even I didn’t say “YOLO” then.
I think Rick Ross or Drake or someone called it the “YOLO movement.”
That’s not a movement. You gotta wipe your a– after a movement.
The Civil Rights Movement was a movement.
Yeah, way to trivialize everything that happened to people in the sixties! YOLO is an excuse to engage in s—-y behavior and to do something that’s completely stupid so you can catch it on YouTube and then immediately run in and see how many goddamn views you got. That’s not a movement. That’s just digital idiocy.
Related: Slipknot’s Corey Taylor ‘Can’t Respect’ What the Confederate Flag Represents
Another of your pet peeves is “reality TV.”
There’s nothing “real” about it!
Why do you watch so much stuff that you hate, if it drives you so crazy?
But see, it’s all by accident, because the only stuff I see is on the commercials. And all the other networks now promote for all the other networks. You didn’t used to get that. You’ll see commercials for Bravo, HGTV, Destination America, Investigation Discovery, like they’re all over the place, probably ’cause they’re all owned by the same company. So even though I avoid these shows I get all the crappiest bits in two to three minutes because everybody’s promoting all over the place.
I hate the Kardashians! Hate! Hate them! Right? And yet, I know more about them than I do The Blacklist, which I love and I’m not caught up on. But I know that there was this big thing with “Caitlin Jenner” and that Kim had to cry about it. So I know all of that. I don’t want to, but I do.
There was at least some social value to Caitlin Jenner.
But my point is this, if you wanted us to respect your privacy or respect your decision, don’t put yourself on a magazine cover. But what do I know, I’m just a singer. I’m an a—–e. Ask my wife. She just shakes her head and leaves the room. She’s like “I can’t handle your tiny hate right now.” And I’m just like [growl].
I don’t think you really have hate…
No, I have seething, seething hate. Rage. Well, it’s more rage. It makes me sweat; look at that. You broke me out in a sweat right now. Just talk about the Kardashians and I’m like “argh!”
You remind me of Henry Rollins and in the book you joke that you have a pillow with his likeness on it. How big of an influence was he?
You know, he was my original spirit animal,. He was one of my idols when I was growing up. Obviously, I had several. But I loved his energy. And I’ve kind of tried to emulate that. I’m nowhere near as well-traveled and as well-versed as he is. I looked at him and said, “He’s got something to say, I’ve got something to say, and I’m gonna try and be at least morally centered when I say it.” So for me, watching him while I was growing up… man, you wanna talk about aspiring to something. Like he’s still one of those dudes that I look and I go, “Man, where’s he find the time?”
He and I were involved in this thing called Drop in the Bucket where we raised money to dig wells in Africa for clean water for a lot of the localized tribes. And he went over there and dug. I just played some songs. He went over there and dug the wells. He’s a hell of a dude, and I can only hope to come close to where he’s at.
You’ve met him, right?
The first time I met him I was involved in the Rise Above album: it was a Black Flag tribute album to benefit the West Memphis Three. And for the first hour I couldn’t look at him. Like I mean we’re sitting at a table together in a restaurant, and I’m just…just such a fan boy, just like, “Oh, my God, I’m sitting with him”—and he just had to stop, and he was like, “Dude. Come on. Figure it out. You’re acting like an a**.”
It’s so cool to meet people like that, that you look up to, who are like that, because there’s the other side of the coin, too, where a lot of the people you meet are such douches that you can’t even be in the same room with them, or you can’t listen to their music anymore because of that. You let it just destroy that love you had for them in the first place.
So I’m very appreciative of the guys like him and Scott Ian, who I’ve been friends with him for 16 years now, which is nuts. My inner 14-year-old is like, “Are you kidding me?” It’s very cool, man, the people who I’ve been able to be friends with who are also my peers. Who’d have thought that, man?
Related: Mini-Documentary: Birmingham, the Birthplace of Metal
Coming from where you came from, it’s a good lesson: if you work your a– off, you can maybe, maybe, make amazing things happen.
You gotta work your a– off, and you might spin your wheels at first, but you get a little bit of traction. It only takes a spoonful of gasoline to drive you across the football field. If you can get that far, you can get a little further. If you get past that, it’s all exponential. You know, one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes sixteen. And then, holy crap, you’re doing something right with your life.
A bit of advice you give in the book is, instead of watching horrible TV shows, read a book that doesn’t have any pictures in it.
Although I did put pictures in my book. When I read that back, I was like, “Oh, I’m such a d—!”
Related: Mini-Documentary: Corey Taylor, Scott Ian, Phil Anselmo Talk About Metal
So, tell me three books that everyone should read.
Okay. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas you have to read, because it’s so gnarly. And there’s really no gage on whether or not some of that’s true or some of it’s not, or some of it’s just insane invention. Either way, whether you read it as a non-fiction or a fiction, it is beautifully written. And the language, the eloquence of the insanity is amazing.
He doesn’t waste any words in that: it’s like, you couldn’t edit any extra words out of it.
No, you really couldn’t. If you have a sense of history you can still read that and feel very much like you understand what’s going on. Even though for me, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail is actually my favorite Hunter S. Thompson book, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is just such a classic. It’s just, you have to sit down and read it.
Please Kill Me is probably one of my favorite books. It’s kind of the oral history of punk rock kind of filtered through New York and the Midwest. It’s got hints of England; it’s got hints of California, but for the most part it’s very East Coast, and it’s told in that kind of interview style which, it’s some of my favorites. I love that book.
I also love Stephen King’s The Stand, the unabridged version is fantastic. It’s such a universe unto itself. And they’re doing the movies, and they’d better not mess ’em up.
Since you’re wearing a Star Wars shirt, and in the book you described waiting on line for hours for Star Wars: The Phantom Menace…
Yeah, I’ll never get that time back…
“So say we all,” to quote Battlestar Galactica
[Laughs] Good pull, dude!
But what did you think about Disney’s announcement that all the comic books, and books, that were considered part of the cannon are no longer part of the Star Wars continuity?
I thought it was smart. Because it immediately destroyed people’s expectations for what could be. Are they completely gone? No. Because people like myself, we spent years reading about what the future could have been, you know, Han and Leia’s kids, the fact that those twins ended up splitting, one was the Dark Side and one was a Jedi, and all hell breaks loose, you know. You can’t not think of that.
I love the fact that they got the original crew. I love the fact that J.J. Abrams is doing it ’cause I’m a massive uber-fan. And I love his films. I don’t care if anybody has problems with the Star Trek movies he did; I love those movies. So I’m excited. I’m excited to see what’s gonna happen. And it’s in December, right around my birthday, so guess where Daddy’s going?
What’s next for Stone Sour?
We’re doing two more covers EPs, one of which will be coming out in the next month or so, and then the last one will come out towards the end of the year or beginning of next year. The first one’s called Straight Outta Burbank, and the second one’s called No Sleep Til Burbank.
Then we’re starting to kinda put demos together for a new album, maybe hopefully maybe fall next year, going in the studio to record that. Slipknot’s probably going to tour until the middle of next year. And I’m gonna be in a couple of more movies.
How did you start acting?
They cast me. Like that’s just as weird as it gets. Well, Clown [aka Slipknot leader Shawn Crahan] has his directorial debut coming out, Officer Downe. He gave me a part in that. I’m kind of this crazy villain named Head Case Harry, who very much looks like the Slim Jim guy on crank, but dressed as the Riddler.
But then there’s a couple other things that I’m testing for. I’m waiting to kind of see what happens, one of which is movie that I’m producing that doesn’t have a title yet, but I’m doing something with FanBacked for that. And then yeah, there’s just all kinds of weird, cool stuff.
How do you budget your time to make time for all of your projects?
It’s all about priorities, you know, especially when it comes to Slipknot and Stone Sour; those are my two main gigs, and I will never let anything else kinda mess that up. So when one’s on tour, the other one’s on hiatus or we’re working on demos and whatnot, slowly putting kind of something together, so that when that one goes on hiatus, it’s kinda like flipping a switch, you know.
If you split your attention too many ways it’s gonna come off half-assed. Whereas if you put all of your energy into it, it feels energetic, it feels live, it feels exciting.
And this next album’s gonna be a little more rock ’n’ roll. A little less of the heavy and a little more rock ’n’ roll, so I’m kind of excited about that.
Your solo song, “XM@$” is hilarious; would you ever do any more solo stuff?
You know, the funny thing is that started as a joke about my friends. All my friends would come over to my house and they’d bitch about Christmas,.
Not a lot of people knew this, but I put it up as a single, and all the money went to the Teenage Cancer Trust in the U.K. So then Roger Daltrey from the Who called me and thanked me, so I’m sitting on the phone and I’m like “ahhhh!” Super cool dude, man, like really cool. But if I ever do a solo album it’s gonna sound so weird. Like it’s gonna be like stoner funk, disco rock, horn sections. F— it.
Related: Interview: Corey Taylor Discusses Religion, the Paranormal and ‘Pro Toolbags’
Have you thought about your next book?
Yeah, yeah. Well, I’ve thought of my next three books, one of which might be a sequel to this one called “You’re Making Me Hate You Two,” see? Punny. I’d have to kick my own ass, though, if I named it that.
But another one is a collection of the columns that I’ve been writing for a British magazine called Rock Sound for the past…15 years now? Jesus, that’s a long time. So it’d be like a collection of my favorites you know, and just weird pieces that I’ve done.
And another one, if I get to do it, if I get permission, is a book about Clown from Slipknot and his peculiar way with the English language. He just butchers the English language. We call them “Crahan-eurysms,” because his last name is Crahan. So I’m hoping to do like a coffee table book of Crahan-eurysms. But he might beat me up for just saying that, because people are gonna asking him about it now. “Taylor! What the hell!” So we’ll see what happens.
Do you have plans to do any more comic books?
Nothing has really come to me. Certainly nothing that would be ongoing, I mean it would always have to be a mini-series, but like all the ideas I come up with now are more like novels, you know, which I’m hoping to do sometime soon. But novels are a bitch, man. Novels are so much harder than the stream of consciousness stuff that I do, so we’ll see what happens.