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Welcome to Editor’s Notes 2.0, a new online-only post written by BodyShop Business Editor Jason Stahl that will consist of rants, ravings and random thoughts on the collision repair industry. You know never when one will pop up, but when it does, you can be sure it will entertain, give you food for thought and possibly make you nuts. Enjoy!
A huge debate that has erupted on our website over how to properly fix cars reminded me of a problem I have when friends and fellow office workers who have had an accident come to me asking for a referral.
I don’t know what to tell them.
What am I supposed to say? Make sure you go to a collision repair facility that has I-CAR training? Nope, can’t say that, because repairers have told me that some shops haven’t taken I-CAR training in 20 years yet still have their plaques from 20 years ago hanging in their lobby. What’s more, repairers tell me, is that just because someone took an I-CAR class doesn’t mean they can fix cars properly. Most likely it was classroom training with a written test, which doesn’t mean squat, they say.
So then one shop owner told me to tell my friends to ask to see the shop’s last welding certificate they got from I-CAR to make sure it’s recent and not from, say, 10 years ago. But then that’s not even a guarantee that if the car is welded back together, it will protect you sufficiently in the event of another crash because it’s not just the technician doing the welding but the welder itself. Is it properly maintained? Are the tips OK? Does the shop have the correct amount of electricity to ensure a proper weld? Does the shop perform destructive weld tests prior to a job requiring welding? The answers I’ve gotten from most industry people on these questions is no, no and no!
“It’s simple,” said one shop owner. “Tell them to go to a shop where the owner will work on their behalf, not the insurer’s.” Obviously, this was a non-DRP shop owner who told me this. But wait, said the DRP shops. Those non-DRP shops don’t have the equipment and training we DRP shops do! We have to have that in order to be on insurance companies’ programs! There are strict guidelines to be on those programs, and we have to constantly maintain our I-CAR Gold Class to stay on the program. So we are better prepared and more able to give you a quality repair! Then the non-DRP shops tell me, no, the DRP shops cut corners! They have to because of the unrealistic cycle times insurers expect of them! Plus, they’re more likely to use salvage and aftermarket parts!
OK, so how about I tell my friends to make sure they go to a clean shop? Forget those shops that have a one-inch thick layer of filler dust everywhere, broken floor tiles, and parts and tools lying haphazardly on the floor! But even that isn’t really hitting the mark. I know first impressions are everything, and that having a clean shop can only be good for business, but I also know there are filthy dirty shops that do excellent work, better than some shops where you can eat off the floor and chase whatever you’re eating with a caramel macchiato dispensed from a fancy machine in the customer reception area that also features leather couches and giant flat-screen TVs.
Well, what about certification? Make sure the shop you take your vehicle to is certified by the company that manufactured your vehicle. Bah, say some repairers! Some shops buy the fancy equipment necessary to get the certification but then throw it in the corner and never even use it, all so they can have the fancy sign out front that will bring them business and give consumers confidence that their vehicle will be restored to pre-accident condition.
So…what SHOULD I tell people? I’m confused! Can somebody help me?
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Basically it’s like anything else in this world,just tell your “personal repair experiences” you have had or someone you know has had with a said repair facilty. And if you haven’t had any then how could you refer in the first place? Referrals are nothing but experiences that people have experienced they are either “good”or “bad”or either decently just “ok”. It’s just like this trade ( how can people make assumptions about what and how to do this work when THEY who are trying to make the standards aren’t even doing the work?) As far as I’m concerned …they can’t !! Papers , certifications , patches, plaques, new equipment , fancy tools, propaganda , even training etc…. All this doesn’t mean one single thing in this business to the ones who know how the jobs done. All this only means something to the people who are looking for some sort of piece of mind (which is only a psychological fake comforting) for the ones not doing this trade.
Interesting, Zeke, thanks. My one and only personal experience was two years ago hitting a deer, $6,000 damage. I had an A-1 experience at my friend’s shop, but our readers told me GEICO must have sniffed out who I was because I got things most consumers don’t, the “red carpet” treatment, so to speak. Still, I would recommend that shop because I have had no problems relating to the repair since and the car runs like a top.
Well there you go!!! I REMEBER you went to nagys, so in that case if it were me I would hold them to the utmost high in referrals !!! Sometimes in my experiences with home repairs etc… The places with all the bells and whistles or window dressing do the lousiest jobs. Where as the word of mouth beat up van people do the best . Just saying … Our trade is not any different .
Btw …. I highly doubt Geico did that, insurance companies are not as evil as the “perceptions” put out that I see on here. The customer is treated good, unless they are unbearable and trying to claim unrelated or fraud which the same goes for our repair shops dealing with the IC . It’s a two way street.
A shop owner told me they might do that with a “high-profile” celebrity or celebrity’s parent because they wouldn’t want the negative national exposure from a shoddy repair or poor experience. But I hardly put myself in that category!
I work on a drp select program and I’ll be the first to say that a shop can get away with a WHOLE lot more “poor customer” service and “poor quality” work NOT being ON An IC PROGRAM then they can being on an ins program. These accusations on here from “non drp shops” about drp programs cust Service and quality are almost 180 degree opposite of how things really are on programs. It’s tough because every job done is tracked through the IC and a shop has GOT to be on top of their game to keep everything in order. Quality, cust service, and cust complaints along with cycle time, and accurate billing, Is all graded monthly. Why do you think many shops “can’t” make the cut? It’s not the way they put the negative perception out to be ill tell you that.
It just occurred to me. At what point will a person get turned off by “too much” customer satisfaction. I mean every person is different right? Personally I’m the type that sees a fake smile and starts analyzing everything under the roof that costs money, but has nothing to do with the job I need done. Then I’d be paranoid, the same way I’d be paranoid if I was “steered” by an IC. Then when I picked up my car I’d probably inspect it hard and notice all those pre-existing scratches for the first time and wonder if that shop did it or not. For some people, the C.S.I protocol could be a huge turn off and that shop would never look as good as they actually are.
I somewhat have to agree with you. THIS Fake Mess and fancy perceptions are all overrated. Most customers only want to be told the “truth” that’s all they want , and most even realize that we are just in a REPAIR business and also that we only CAN repair their vehicles , we don’t build them a brand new OEM vehicle exactly like a 0 mile new one rolling off the assembly line. That’s “impossible” to do in a bodyshop. Customers are just like their vehicles being repaired , they “all” are different and should be dealt with that exact way all just individually. Just build them back to the pre loss condition as best possible and that’s all we have to do as a “repair” shop and just tell them that!!!
Did you get OEM parts?
Yes, mechanical and body. All original.
Year and mileage?
2009 Honda Civic. The accident occurred in 2014.
Jason, really.
As a “parts manager” at a GEICO shop in New Jersey two years ago, every one got “shit parts.”
As an “educated individual”, you do not see anything wrong.
Smart shops get a price match for a/m for Oem parts and still make money. IC probably wrote everything in jersey for a/m parts simply because the customers and most of the shops there are more crooked than a box of 7.0 fishhooks. Shops saving cust deductibles and using a/m instead of oe anyhow so why should the IC pay them full Oem parts prices? I sure as hell wouldn’t if I was an insurance company in a rat infested shit hole as that state is.
I am glad you are a “smart shop”, going forward in the face of adversity and “still make money.”
You are correct about NJ; the northeast is where the “insurance cartels” make most of their money.
Nice to know that “integrity” has taken roots in your part of the country.
Zeje, report to the office. Time for a piss test.
If your insinuating I use drugs I find that humiliating , I’ve NEVER used drugs , nor do I associate with the losers who do use drugs. Also I don’t report to anyone in any office…..I am who I am and if a place I work at doesnt like it then I’ll roll out not a problem. I don’t kiss anyone’s ass nor do I want mine kissed I’m 100% “real” and I say things exactly like it is , I (try) to live by the bible and that’s the only real laws in my opinion worth abiding by. BTW , I’m actually well liked where I work at, yet I’m still always 100% for the company and if the company is 100% for the workers then we both get along extremely well. Try it “shop owners” you may be surprised at the outcome with your people and with the insurance people also.
What you left out is Liability and Motivation. Whether it’s legal, or other, there’s an inherit liability in referrals as well as one’s motivation.
You may be asking who is this nut job? And, what the heck is he talking about?
Unlike many of your readers I work on the OE parts vendor side of the business. I’m an outside sales guy. My job is trying to work with shops to purchase their parts from us. So Obviously I have a tainted, or biased, motivation for whom I make referrals to. But those referrals can lead to the proverbial “why them not us” question putting my job of generating parts sales to the non-referred customer in jeopardy, i.e. a liability.
Also, in some states, mine being one there are laws that put my employer in a potential legal liability situation based on the outcome of the referral. Unlikely, but possible. We have to claim that we are not making a repair referral but a service offering with a business partner. Lawyers
As for the way this discussion was heading what with the DRP v non-DRP shop and their views on this topic. I want to say get over yourselves. You’re in the same industry and you’re allowing the insurance industry to manipulate you just as they have planned. Stop being puppets. This argument about referrals isn’t about DRP or not. It’s about how YOU treat your customers and how your customers perceive your business. It’s Marketing 101: the best form of marketing is “word of mouth”
I say if you go to a” non drp shop” your rolling alone , because your lifetime warranty ONLY Is with them. With this said that shop can pop up one day and be gone the next along with your warrantys , where as with the “insurance preferred shop” they could do the same (HOWEVER) as long as….say “state farm” is selling insurance and in business YOU AS (YOU’re vehicle) is covered by them to pay for anything relating to the repair that would fail from the previous repair shop that say closed. So on that note , why would a customer choose a shop NOT on a network program? You then are taking a huge risk of being left out in the cold completely naked!!!!!! Don’t be a fool!!!!! Always Choose insurance preferred shops ONLY!!!!!!!
Kind of off topic but most vehicle owners really don’t care about a “lifetime warranty” and where it can be applied. Statistically, most people reside where the repairs took place. Unless you’re on a road trip and the taillight just pops out, you can get that replaced take your invoice back to your original repairer and ta-da it’s warrantied. Now of course if your quarter panel decides to just fall off well you’ve got bigger issues than a friggin warranty????
Second, a good portion of people get out of their repaired vehicle within a year. Lifetime warranty for a year?
Third, warranty is a “feel good” tool to help vehicle owners through a difficult time. If your shop, DRP or not, is not qualified to complete the repairs professionally and in the safest manner than no warranty is good for the vehicle owner. No warranty can cover poor craftsmanship. Again, warranty moot.
Lastly, I have heard so many horror stories about insurance companies attempting to blame warranty claimants about being in a new collision and doing everything they can to block warranty repairs. How, does that insurance warranty sound now?
As I write this it dawned on me that you would base your referrals, back on topic, on post-repair amenities and not on repair quality or customer service.
If customers did in fact “get out” of their previously repaired vehicle within a year why would they even (care) how any of the body shops repaired their cars ? Second , customers stay in their cars longer now then EVER in the past, and they want the lifetime ownership warranty for any repairs made , insurance companies could care less if a lifetime warranty is needed or if it’s to be redone , they aren’t responsible for the costs of it their preferred shop is agreeing or partnering with them to hold all the accountability of any costs that may occur in a workmanship issue. The insurance company will just help that customer get it taken care of by what ever other shop the customer chooses and the insurance companies pay that bill THEN they submit the bill back to the responsible shop to pay . This day and time the LIFETIME WARRANTY is the biggest selling or steering choice that’s driving all these customers to the ins program preferred shops so they have that safety net, it’s not anything else. I don’t know what planet you live on but your not up with the times or the customers in our society.
I never heard of anyone referring a DRP shop. Maybe a pension investor might suggest a private equity owned shop. Just saying….
I-car training is only classroom textbook training and means nothing. Except for the welding tests they are hands on . Most i-car classes consist of groups of people who aren’t even doing the hands on work many are just insurance people or bs office people. And if anyone of these persons are certified as I- car gold that doesn’t mean they can do any actual repairs it only means that they can pass the class and the open book test at the end. I-car is a joke as far as “qualifying anyone” to do the actual work! It’s nothing but a racket to generate “earnings”in exchange for repair “information” it doesn’t qualify or necessarily provide “skills” to anyone.
That was hilarious and hit darn near every imaginable obstacle!
Trust and comfort should be #1. That may include going out and getting three or more estimates to meet and see shops for yourself. Your time will be worth it. Ask personal questions. How long has the shop been around, What line of materials does the shop use, What is the shop best at? Pay attention to the tone of the answers. Is the shop honest, or are they just legends in their own eyes?
Lets face it, a hard hit modern car is not repairable to any standard even close to OEM new……..
No shit!! Tell that to the idiots who think they are doing those proper repairs lolololol if you ask me their just effing up the car worse then not.
Word of mouth referrals, family members, and co-workers typically are some of the best sources on where to begin your search for a qualified collision repair shop. If the insurer recommends a shop, you have to ask yourself what kind of arrangement does that shop have with the insurer responsible for my damage. If I were a prospective customer, I would base my decision on multiple factors. Is the shop qualified and equipped and have access to oem repair information? Another question that a potential customer should ask is “who will be the two parties of the repair contract and will you as the collision expert defer to guidelines determined by somebody outside the contract of repair who is not a repair expert. If they can’t answer that question with an answer that does not hinge on insurer mandates, I’d keep on looking. I have secured many customers in the past by simply asking whether the other shops they had in mind would have the vehicle owner’s best interests and safety in mind or would have they already placed their insurer partners corporate needs ahead of yours; and will they serve as an advocate for you or simply negotiate a repair on pre-arranged conditions formed by hold harmless contracts with that insurer. Another question to ask is who is the sole person or entity that is responsible for warranty of my repairs if needed, as I am not interested in repairs where an insurer guaranty only stipulates that you will be happy with the quality of the repair which is a just a no teeth guarantee.
Which ever shop you take it to, let them know that you will be having 5post repair inspection done when you get the car back
Reviews, if the shop don’t have any, stay away. If the shop only has a few, stay away. If the shop has bad one’s, stay away. If the shop has hundreds of them, you found your shop if there good ones and you’ve asked around about them. Who don’t use reviews today!
Ron Perretta
I don’t get it. So, like, nobody can fix my car?
Did yep put you up to this?!
That’s Yelp. I spel wel.
Fix your car? Of course bodyshops can fix your car, however we as shops don’t make your vehicles new and never been in an accident !!!! No one can. Repaired , fixed , etc…. Of course that’s obtainable. It’s like having a boat or yacht that’s run aground and gutted a large hole in the hull. Can it be repaired and perform as before ? I think so…. but it’s not going to be THE SAME like it was if it never would have happened because now it’s been repaired. There’s not any difference really in the looks etc… same thing with a wrecked and repaired vehicle it’s now been repaired but it’s no big deal. It is what it is.
My thoughts is pick a bodyshop that acts like a bodyshop and looks like a bodyshop. If you don’t your just asking for the house dressing and warm and fuzzys. That my friend doesn’t get your vehicle repaired any more correctly. If the shop has to reassure you that they only do “proper repairs” and they have to tell you about all the liability and safe this and safe that then I would just choose another shop because if they are scared of their own shadows how in the hell can they even begin to do this trade effectively? Oh yea, They can’t btw.
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