The following has been sent to the club and Akkeron reps. Thanks for your questions.
The answers will be published simultaneously on PASOTI, the club official website and the Higher Home Park and Plymouth Argyle Supporters Board websites on a date yet to be decided.
Start date
When is the New grandstand going to be started to be built?
Liamwilloughby.
When will building of the new stand begin and when is it projected to be finished?
GreenJake.
Associated Facilities, Revenue and Non-matchday Income
James
At the PASTA meeting you said that the revenue from only 1 possibly 2 of the outward facing units would not go to the club. Is this still the case ?
StonehouseMike
What proportion of income from HHP retail and other developments would go to the club?
Stefan – NZGreen.
Can you please clarify the drawings: todays plans show the stand filling in the corner next to the Devonport stand but not the corner next to Barn park stand, Will that gap, (currently "hospitality building) remain, or is some other development planned there?
We can see what's planned under the new stand regarding empty "units", can you clarify where the revenue from them, being on PAFC/PCC land, goes?
We were told the football club would get all revenue from its current footprint, which is inside the fence/wall running alongside the car park, is currently a road where the opposition coach unloads etc. It now appears a lot of space behind the current Mayflower stand is now part of the retail development. Do you think that's a significant variation to your original intent, particularly if in addition revenue from some of the units beneath the new stand won't go to the football club?
Greenblooded1.
In the past (and presumably at present ) the club had little income outside of gate receipts and TV money,
Considering many potential commercial opportunities will be in direct competition to the hotel and retail units within the wider developement, what is the realistic non match day revenue the football club can expect to earn from the finished grandstand and how does this compare to current levels?
Avignon Green.
Will the additional revenue streams enable the club to be self financing, sustainable and competitive up to Championship level as a minimum? ( Assuming the Green Army continue to support the club as they have in recent years)
Lloyd - Pasties from Cornwall.
Is the hotel going to be Akkeron owned? If so are you planning on doing any schemes where people shall get discount on the hotel with a ticket to the game?
Derbyshire Pilgrim.
1: You have said that the development will help fund a move up through the divisions. Is there anything other than your word, that means Plymouth Argyle will in the future see a percentage of the money made re-invested into the playing squad, or at least facilities that will directly benefit the on pitch success of the club?
2: With several other clubs succeeding without an on site cinema, ice rink etc. etc. etc. would you not agree that top notch football facilities would be better suited to a football club, as opposed to top notch hotel facilities?
Frazer Lloyd-Davies.
Confirm or otherwise the following,
That the football club, just out of administration and requiring cash injections or interest free loans to remain viable, would be unable to obtain any funding at all for the commercial development and the cost of building a grandstand. Hence the need for a separate commercial partner.
That the commercial partner has already paid full open market value for the Higher Home Park land to the football club at an independently determined open market value of £465,000. Could you confirm whether any of that money went to paying off, in advance, any of the Football Creditor debt including the staff.
There is no contractual requirement, as part of the original purchase of the Higher Home Park land and the lease of Home Park with the Council, to build a grandstand on the land leased from the Council.
In most commercial developments a lender will require a minimum return (profit) of at least 20% (to safeguard against any fall in market value among other things) before considering providing funding for a commercial development. With a reported overall development value of £50m of which the grandstand represents £10m in effect, in general terms, any profit from the commercial development provides the funding for the grandstand. As a result the overall development is at best cost neutral and suggestions that a significant profit will still remain from the development and be returned to Akkeron may be unfounded.
The orientation and access arrangements for the Life Centre approved by the City Council, without due regard for the future development of Higher Home Park, have imposed addional costs upon the development and an access solution to the car park that may severely impede or even prevent additional capacity being constructed in the Lyndhurst and Barn Park stands. As a result a full and proper evaluation of how the capacity may be extended and at what cost is being fully investigated and the outcome will be fully reported.
The City Council, as part of its commitment to improving Central Park, has requested improvements to the Park from the developer of around £1m as part of the overall development cost.
That in the end the most successful outcome for the City, the City Council, the supporters and the football club will be a careful balance between all interests and that will be determined by the amount of commercial funding that is reasonably available. The balance of those interests will be achieved by a series of compromises by all parties in the realisation that all aspirations may not be fully met. Whether that balance can be achieved as a result of a full reassessment of the proposals as they stand will be the subject further consultation, revision and negotiation.
Graham Clark.
We were informed previously that everything within the current footprint of the Mayflower Grandstand PAFC would benefit from. However, I received no definitive answer about the retail units built into the grandstand. Will PAFC either own/gain rent/% of sales from these units?
Matthew Waterworth.
Will the retail outlets, cinema and ice rink planned to be part of our new stand benefit the club in any way?
GreenJake.
Mr Brent
Can you clarify what non-matchday revenue services will be built in the redeveloped Mayflower.
Has the revenue potential for each facility been forecast, and what are these estimations?
Is there the potential to develop new facilities such as conferencing facilities, in the future?
Will the Akkeron hotel, the cinema, the ice rink and the restaurants have any financing arrangements with the club post development?
Ejh.
What is the budgeted income from match days and non-match day functions from the new facilities?
Richard Jones.
What percentage of the income from the six retail units taking up most of ground floor of the new stand will be payable to the football club?
Will conferencing income from facilities within the stand linked to events in other parts of the development such as Ice Skating competition be payable to the football club?
Stuart C.
Capacity
1: What will the total capacity of Home Park be after the redevelopment as it stands now?
2: Do you agree with the assertion that any future additional capacity requirements would be impossible both economically and structurally, If not why not?
Stefan – NZGreen.
You've quite rightly referred to yourself in the past as a "temporary custodian of the club".
Undoubtedly, when you come to sell PAFC onwards (as you will), the club will be in a far better position than when you became owner. For that, we will always be grateful.
However, do you understand why the current plans for the Grandstand concern a number of us, because they appear to create an unwelcome constriction to future growth, beyond what is needed now, or for the next few years, while we remain in your ownership?
If you were a potential future owner of PAFC, would you see the current plans for the stadium as advantageous and helpful for a bid for Premiership status, or would you recognise that the limitations on stadium expansion would make us a less attractive proposition?
This isn't meant as a churlish question - having a new Grandstand presented to the club after a dozen years of procrastination and muddle is to be welcomed. But a fair proportion of the fanbase would like to be sure that this decision isn't going to have the same hazardous side effects as the freehold purchase did.
John Lloyd.
Why are you reducing the existing potential capacity? You spoke about a 'state of the art Grandstand with a capacity of 20K that we would all be proud of'. What changed your mind? Can you understand why so many Argyle fans are extremely disappointed?
The Duke.
If the development goes ahead as planned what are the realistic and affordable options for increasing capacity?
Lloyd - Pasties from Cornwall.
James,
The development brings welcome additional foot fall to the area on non-match days and along with the Life Centre creates an excellent focal point for sport and leisure.
The point expressed by many about the stands appearance and capacity are driven by optimism for the future, already being nurtured by yourself and huge pride in our club.
I appreciate cost/revenue is governing things to a large degree but has every avenue been explored as far as additional funding is concerned? Does granting naming rights, for instance, produce significant or neglible cash relative to the additional costs of a larger structure?
Why does the structure have to be the same height as the rest of the development?
Graham Coules
As this development is quite clearly inadequate for any club with ambitions to rise above league one (check attendances last time we were promoted in league one)what reasons if any are there why the money for development can't be ring fenced until other avenues for funding are explored to realise a capacity that match the true supporters ambitions for our club?
With-menace.
With this type of project, I would expect a number of proposals would have been considered leading to a preferred option. Indeed a contributor to Pasoti and member of the Contingency Group has said he had seen a 2 tier option.
Can you indicate what the key criteria were in choosing the selected option?
Also, can you explain why the single tier option published on the day of the Fleetwood game was then changed so rapidly after the initial response to the proposal - was the original criteria flawed or merely changed to appease the fans by adding five rows to an Upper Tier?
Cheshiregreen.
Most Pasotiites consider the capacity to be inadequate to meet the clubs realistic ambitions. Have the following possibilities been investigated and discussed with PCC where appropriate:
1: Can the stand be increased in height to give possibly an extra 10 rows of seats in the top tier. Can an additional level be added to the whole development, if that were the case then the building in the corner between the stand and the Devonport End could be moved elsewhere and the corners could be in filled with seating and the additional cost funded by the increase in retail space in the extra level.
2: Why can't the development spread into Cottage Field? It is zoned for development in the Central Park Action Plan. PCC would be justified in giving Akeron the land which would fund a much enhanced stadium as described above.
3: Is the density of seats the same as the rest of the ground, if not why not? Looking at the PDF there seems a similar number of rows to the Lyndhurst but the structure appears taller.
Richard Jones.
How do you react to present criticism that the grandstand proposals appear to be the cheapest and smallest design possible, and that the grandstand redevelopment is an afterthought to the clear priority of building a hotel, ice rink and cinema?
Why do you think it is acceptable to build an ice rink in a position where it means that this grandstand will never be extended should we need to, and how do you respond to the criticism that these plans display a clear lack of ambition for the club considering the similar positions of our peers such as Swansea, Brighton etc when they built their new grounds?
Andy Holland.
What would you say to those fans who feel that the Grandstand seems to come as an afterthought to the commercial developments such as the ice rink and the cinema?
Liam Vercoe.
James you have openly stated your inexperience in managing a football club, from whom did you take advice when determining the capacity of the stadium as I assume you would have done.
What is the reasoning behind the proposed 18k capacity.
What potential for future increase of the capacity is there
Gaiser.
Mr Brent
A recent pasoti survey showed that only 5% of fans feel that a stand of either 4, 000 or 5,000 capacity is adequate - 95% feel that a capacity of under 6, 000 is inadequate. As a self labelled temporary custodian chairman of Plymouth Argyle FC, would you commit to delivering a football stand that 95% of the club's surveyed fans do not want?
Ejh.
I am genuinely not against the overall plan for HHP, but by building the grandstand to a 4,600 capacity I genuinely believe that it will not be enough for our future. It hems us in to a style of thought process that I know you dont hold for the city as a whole; 'good enough'. You don’t seem to be a 'good enough' kind of businessman, so why build a stand with a 'good enough' capacity?
Matthew Waterworth.
Mr Brent,
To begin I'd like to say that I am pleased to see that finally there is a sensible and achievable proposal put forward for a new grandstand, through owners past we have heard it all when it comes to whacky ideas for new stands so I am pleased that finally it looks like we've got someone in the form of yourself that is going to deliver on his plans. This football club has been crying out for the facilities the new stand will provide for some time now, I fully believe that the modern game of football and the modern football club requires such facilities to stay competitive and so to see plans for them to arrive at Home Park is always going to be a positive in my eyes.
That said, the one thing I am disappointed by is the proposed capacity for the stand, I don't wish to offend but for me it almost acts like a glass ceiling to our progression, despite the suggestions that the horseshoe can be upgraded I remain sceptical as to how viable that option will be in the future. Personally I see these plans as the one chance this club will get to not only build a stand worth shouting about, but to also show the people of Plymouth that this club is worth going to watch over the teams that frequent the Sky TV channels on a weekly basis. I fear that setting a capacity of anything below that psychological 20,000 mark will send the wrong message to the people of Plymouth, a message that suggests we're happy with what we have had in the past and don't intend to aim for anything more. You have said that one of your aims as owner is to reach out to the people of Plymouth and encourage them to join the community club you intend to build, I fear that if the stand doesn't sell Argyle as an ambitious forward thinking club, then your efforts in this regard will fall on ears focussed solely on the Man Utds and the Arsenals of this country.
Apologies, this is more of a message rather than a question so I'll end on a lighter note. As a supporter who has spent his Argyle life sat in the Lyndhurst (whilst cheating on it to sit in the Devonport end for a year), will I have access to the facilities within the new grandstand or will I have to switch to a grandstand seat? Thanks.
Ollie Pope.
The majority have concerns over the size of the grandstand.
Whilst I appreciate the need to develop for 7 day use ( I guess not contributing to playing income) what can you say to reduce those genuine concerns and the effect it will have on the football side when we move forward to a higher division.
Can I also take the opportunity to thank you for your input in our club, I guess you have not invested in many business ventures which such emotional ties.
Sporting Lipson.
Mr Brent,
Does it not concern you that if Pasoti (the largest fans forum and reliable barometer of popular fan opinion) is accurate, then the legacy left by yourself will be to deliver a structure that 95% of fans are unhappy with?
Indeed, your stated intention of delivering a stand that the fans could feel proud of, would have failed quite spectacularly, wouldn't it?
Would it be out of the question for you to commit to incorporating the 5-row expansion to the horseshoe, as part of this whole Grandstand development package? Thus adding around 2,500 to the capacity of that area, and consequently providing the fans of Plymouth Argyle with an end product very much in keeping with your original vision and stated intention? A stadium to be proud of. A stadium circa 20k.
If you were to make this happen, I'd say that the 95% - 5% ratio of 'unhappy to happy' would be turned 180 degrees, and a legacy could be left that you personally could be immensely proud of.
Thanks
The Grumpy Loyal.
Will the new stand be able to be expanded if we find ourselves in a higher league with the need for more seats?
GreenJake.
I am making an assumption that extending the horseshoe would be more expensive than incorporating the additional seats in the new stand to get the capacity up to 20k, which would also have the advantage of leaving expansion of the horseshoe for expansion when needed.
When you spoke to the PASTA meeting in January, I seem to recall that one of the issues to be resolved was the way in which the development was managed and, if I recall correctly, the most cost effective way to construct the whole project was to build it all up at the same speed rather than building "our stand" more quickly than the surrounding commercial developments.
If the football club accepted a delay in the availability of the new facilities, would the savings in build costs be sufficient to fund a larger stand?
Mark Colling.
James,
While I am in favour of the development as it stands and do feel that comments about capacity when put polity is OK but some of the rancid comments do not help and indeed puts the club in a very poor light. To help put capacity in context could you please give the figures of the total seating capacity at the stadium now and also the total capacity in the stadium when the grandstand is complete.
Thank You, Mike Greening
The present plans for the overall development do appear to have compromised on facilities to allow for retail opportunities between the stand and ice rink. Was this a criteria of the Project Brief to architects as given the limited space it would appear more logical to build some of other development facilities into the stand structure allowing it to have larger capacity?
Which other architect groups were asked for their proposals to the Project Design Brief?
The plans for the new stand appear to show that the new tier of 920 seats will only be accessible from the corporate suite. If this is the case will the 600 seats in front of corporate boxes allocated to hospitality be released back into general sale, otherwise there will only be 3,500 general sale seats in the proposed stand.
Stuart C.
James
Teams such as Swansea and Brighton have generally averaged similar if not smaller crowds than us in the past, and have build far more ambitious stadiums than the rather disaponting "shelf" stand proposed at the Theatre Royal exhibition. In both cases the stadium construction spurred them onto further achievement.
Why do you feel that Argyle should build an inferior stadium to other teams of similar stature and potential? Do you not agree it is likely to put a serious dent in any future ambitions?
Womble.
Mr Brent
Do you feel that Southend United are overly-ambitious in building a stadium capable of holding 22,000?
What is it about the new stand design that makes it 'uniquely Plymouth Argyle' in your opinion?
Up The Line.
Road Access
I'm concerned about using the Lyndhurst and Barne Park outer concourse as road access to the underground car park.
There are invariably turnstile lines across the concourse before the match and there is a mingle of home and away fans after the match.
I consider this a safety hazard during these times both to fans, possible damage to vehicles and road rage.
Do you have a plan B?
GreenRod.
From studying the plans via Greens-on-Screen, the underground car park is to be accessed via a road at the back of the current Lyndhurst and Barn Park end stands. Further to this it has been publicised that usage of this road will be limited on match days (presumably for players, staff, club officials and guests) to allow for fans to enter and exit the stadium safely.
As such do you expect on match days all Plymouth Argyle fans, visitors to the Higher Home Park development (cinema/ ice rink) and the Life Centre to use the existing Park and Ride car park?
If so, are there enough spaces so that there is not a negative impact on residential parking in the vicinity of central park, and what plans are there in place for access to and from the Park and Ride car park from an already busy Outland Road?
Carl Fraser.
You have stated that the Devonport End could be knocked down and redeveloped for larger capacity. Have your development team thought that this might be a better place for the Hotel development similar to the DeVeres Hotel in the Reebok, which has same number of rooms as HHP proposal? This would remove a large proportion of traffic for the new access road with possibility that remaining service vehicles could access to an entrance to the underground car park located at right end of development.
Stuart C.
Green Taverners/Fans bar
Will the new grandstand have a Far Post Club?
Dick.argyle
James
Will there be provision for the GT's functions and for the Senior Greens to use a facility within the new grandstand, for example a function room?
Mike Greening.
Can the Fansfest be accommodated within the stand?
Lloyd - Pasties from Cornwall.
Images on Seats
Will there be any 'text' on the grandstand seats?
Callum Cuzner.
A good idea some fans have had is to incorporate either a legendary player's face or, more popularly, the club's badge into the seating in the new grandstand, is this something that has been considered before? Is it plausible?
Liam Vercoe.
Future Development of the "Horseshoe"
James,
How expensive are the costs of a potential future re-development of the horseshoe compared to the costs of the grandstand this Summer and how likely are any of these horseshoe developments to take place if we are promoted?
GreenSam.
Has any work gone into future expansion planning, should we regain our Championship position. For example enlarging the Devonport end, do you have any indicative numbers for gaining an additional 10,000 seats?
Greenblooded1.
How can Argyle expand the ground in the future if the access road and the development is going to prevent any further expansion from over half the ground? Would this mean that in order to get a ground with Premier League capacity that we would need to move out of Home Park?
What is your current feeling towards the fans who do not like the plans?
Derbyshire Pilgrim.
How much would it cost to put the 2500 seats around the horse shoe?
How much would it cost to further expand the horse shoe by the 2000 extra seats?
How much would it cost to demolish the Devonport End and build a bigger stand?
Rough estimates would give us some idea's about the cost and if you can confirm all three options would still be available to the club.
Martin Hayman.
The access road proposed behind the Lyndhurst/Barn Park End could well hinder their future expansion. One of your staff suggested to me that their was the possibility of adding 4/5 rows to the back of the 'horse shoe' or totally redesigning the Devonport End. Would you as owner expect to be planning on doing this during your tenure?
Matthew Waterworth.
You have stated that it is your intention to take Argyle back into the Championship, as such are you aware that the last time we returned to that league we averaged 16,500. Taking into account losing one block for segregation your proposed new ground capacity would have been inadequate for about 50% of our games that season.
By proposing to build a stadium that would fail to meet our requirements in the Championship would you agree that you appear to be planning to fail.
It has been mentioned that additional capacity could be added to the Devonport end should we reach the Championship, however this would mean closing the stand during construction, thereby reducing our capacity even further at a time when we need it most.
It has also been stated that increased capacity to the Devonport would only amount to about 2,000 additional seats, have you calculated the cost of this expansion and would it be cost effective.
Given the cost of redeveloping the Devonport, the loss of income whilst it is closed during construction and the general disruption to all businesses in that area, would you agree that it is highly unlikely you would ever expand that stand in the future.
Tony Campbell.
James
This has come from a suggestion made by a poster on another thread.
With regards to future expansion, has consideration been given to lowering the pitch to create additional seating at the front, in addition the the extra seats that you have suggested can be created at the back of the horse shoe?
Many thanks
Bevis Robins.
Finance
Mr Brent - how much will you spend on the Mayflower Grandstand development, in terms of the buildings that belong to the club?
How much does your company and its subsidiaries stand to make in delivering this project for Plymouth City Council?
With the backlash of fan opinion against the proposals, would you prefer to sacrifice your private profit for additional capacity, to avoid fans sabotaging the development through planning committee?
Do you think there are any vested interests on acting as chairman of the football club during this process, when the smaller the stand design for Plymouth Argyle, the larger profit on the bottom line for your company Akkeron?
Ejh.
There is a rumour, surrounding the Akkeron board, that as the development is expensive you are willing to cut back on Argyle so that the other developments can be built to the required standard. Could you please confirm or deny the rumour?
Derbyshire Pilgrim.
Naming Rights/Style of grandstand
Mr Brent,
The proposed stand is clearly less than what has been intimated in the past. Would Akkeron consider doing the job properly in exchange for naming rights to the ground or stand for a set number of years?
Jerryatricjanner.
Is the grandstand going to be called The Mayflower?
NorfolkGreen.
Is there any way in which the style/design of the old iconic turnstyles could somehow be incorporated into the new grandstand roof? It would certainly give the stand an individuality all of its own and set Home Park out on its own.
Many thanks
Bevis Robins.
Memorial Garden
Others have covered most of my concern's, with their question's.
One I have is the proposed siting of the Memorial Garden, it looks like it is 'dumped' out the back of the ground, as an after-thought.
Also this end of the ground being the Away end, I fear it may be desecrated by a few mindless away supporters.
Also regarding the Memorial Garden, many Argyle supporters have mentioned using the Facade/Turnstiles as an entrance to the Gardens.
Saving the iconic Facade and it's connection to the history of Argyle and the fact that many of the supporters being remembered would have walked through these turnstiles.
Would you consider this idea and save a link with the history of the Club?
Thank you - Dave Gosling, Paignton.
It would also be interesting to have an explanation why the Memorial Garden appears to be in two different places (on the plans).
John Lloyd.
Miscellaneous
Is there time or scope to change the plans as they stand currently?
Liam Vercoe.
In general terms, questions regarding the "matchday experience:
If we've essentially a "clean sheet", are there any plans in mind to ensure all requiring fans can SWIFTLY buy drink & food in the 15 mins of halftime without missing any football. Watching an ice hockey game in the USA, everyone gets served in 10 mins, so it's achievable, but only if we do things differently to currently (& at most clubs). Can we look forward to not having long slow queues?
Will anything be done to improve ticketing & getting fans into the ground quicker than currently. For example cinemas sell tickets online, you just show up with your credit card to collect ticket &/or gain entry.
Greenblooded1.
Is there a bus stop and will there be free buses?
Stephen’s Dad.
Is a new sound system for the ground included?
Lloyd – Pasties from Cornwall.
Much of the Akkeron development will be on land currently owned by PCC and currently leased to the football club, how will this be dealt with? Will it be leased to Akkeron? If so will that reduce the lease payment for the football club. Or will the land be sold to Akkeron, if so for how much?
Richard Jones.
Will you discus your plans with the AFT?
Richard Jones.
Will the ground be used, close season, for live music events?
Hairy J.
Mr Brent,
Alongside the development of Higher Home Park are there any plans to upgrade the training facilities? All clubs with ambition as well as those already successful set great store by modern training grounds and allied medical and nutrition sections, all necessary for success on the pitch.
Many thanks for the hope for the future, a future you provided.
Justanotherfan.
James
Training facilities have been mentioned, have the club considered developing the cottage field site for a modern, well equipped gym which the public could access when the squad are not using, as part of the membership of the club and an additional revenue stream for the football operation?
If it hasn't been considered, would it be?
Matt Chappell.
James,
I understand that in December, you formally backed the campaign for safe standing at English football matches. Should the need arise to increase capacity in the future, is this still an option you are willing to consider?
Andrew Owen.
Could the stand incorporate the smaller 2nd tier at the bottom, rather than at the top. Use removable seats.
Thus taking a lead in supporting standing at matches...as well as introducing some much needed atmosphere from that side of the pitch, also increasing capacity if rules change.
Richard Allan.
Given all that has been said in the last year about the importance of the PASB as an authentic, legitimate representative body to provide supervision and transparency on issues that directly affect the fanbase, can you explain why it appears that neither the stadium development plans, nor the season ticket pricing plan were discussed with that body before initial details were released into the public domain?
John Lloyd.
Will the new development incorporate a large electronic scoreboard?
Arsenal have a great one that displays the teams and all of the in game information like which players have cards, would look great on the hotel wall in the corner of the ground.
Paul – Devonportender.
I use a motor cycle on match days to ease the traffic burden in the area around the ground and to reduce the carbon footprint. To encouraage others to do so could you please consider an area for motor cycle parking and more importantly either allow helmets to be taken into the ground or a better system than the current system of leaving an helmet in an unlocked cupboard at the main entrance.
It's a bit of pain to walk back to the main entrance after the game to collect an helmet.
Southampon have a fantastic set up for motor cycle users, perhaps a look at their's would be fruitful.
Andy H
Dear James,
If the green army rejects the stadium plans as they are now, would you want any of your other developments in Plymouth to go ahead, yes or no?
Stefan – NZGreen.
End.
Statistics: Posted by PL2 3DQ — Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:14 am