Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-19-2001 11:38 PM
Tom,
actually I noticed this difference and several others you have not mentioned when I first saw the diagrams and questioned John about it here is his response below from an email:
“If you take another look at the pages you can see that the first one is much smaller too and there are two punch holes at the top of the second one.
Since I was getting complaints about the quality of the picture I decided to use the larger ones which are a compilation of the technical drawings in a packet attached to the unit. The cut-a-way is also a bit different from the unit I have as it shows the interior of the prototype.
I haven’t looked closely at all the documents and I suppose there may be other differences too. In fact, there is another version of the same drawing in question which has a side profile on it and it’s not in the manual either. I would imagine that may have been one of the updates.
#5 still says cone. I hadn’t noticed the error in numbering before and I’ve seen others in the manual but that’s pretty typical for a military document.
If you would, do me a favor and post this if someone else cathes that. Actually, this is quite intesting because I suppose if it were a fraud it would be expected to be perfect. That’s fascinating and I hadn’t thought about it before.”
sincerely,
Pamela
Javier, Where is John? probably P.A.C.K.I.N.G.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 03:04 AM
Smile
I am not a time traveler.
Can I apply a truth table to all this discussion?
What if I said that I might be able to?
What would that prove?
Some of the people would believe it, some people would not believe it, some people would not care.
That’s about it. That’s all that is happening anytime people get together to discuss anything from the past or the future.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 03:25 AM
Javier,
“P.S. Sure, where should we all take our vacation? Me, you, and John “I wanna be a Time Traveler someday” Titor, wanna go off to?”
How about the stoneage? Wanna take a ride???
hehheheheh
-pamela
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-20-2001 06:35 AM
Oh! The misdirected rage of a 21 year old. Javier, put your efforts into something worthwhile and you’ll go far in life. Don’t let this time of your life be wasted smashing things.
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 03-20-2001 06:40 AM
Angry
I do not need to believe in John titor’s claims too say,Javier your a good intelligent skeptic,But your also the type that will get left in the dust when something big does happen,You remind me of the neighbors who run inside here in Newport Beach when Ufo’s fly over the beach,they run inside saying,NO ,NO I see it but it CAN”t be real!I have read all the replies on this **** time travel post from the beginning,and at the end ,I find you a bitter dude.In your universe view the world must be a boring place.Sure,Time Travel is not true,Javier,now go play while me and my friends go back in time and make sure your Mom and dad never met,ha,ha.Skepticism is good but ,your little barbs flown over and over on this post seems bitter,You probably have never experienced Any odd phenomena?That is how it seems,so sad for you,open your eyes and The Wierd will appear.Happy Trails John Titor,where ever you go,you made me and others think,not necesarily believe ,but what a gift of thought.Javier resign to your cubicle,horse blinded view ,how non-unique you are Javier.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:48 AM
Cool
just grab the shades and hop in the Chevy to “take a ride”.
Pamela: Wouldn’t you all look a tad out of place in the stone age? Seems that trip would definately blow ones cover, but who would care. Just a bunch of grunting hairy but naked human-like ancestors. I can see it, a Chevy pick up, probably black or dark blue in color appears in stone age florida…isnt it wet? NO matter, its a chevy. 
The only problem is there is room for 3 in that extra cab and a tight squeeze at that.
Javier: You would be sitting behind John. That would be an interesting development. If John is a TT, he is still human. How would you handle that morally? Take away his toy? j/k
The stone age would be a drag I think. Unknown diseases, yuk. Might as well be a cow and go to England. Ever thought of say….the 1920′s. Florida would be there…and definately dry. Besides the ’20′s would be interesting. Period cash? Who cares. Does not seem that money is all that important in Time Travel.
Having Fun.
Phil
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 06:58 AM
Tom: Last week I was looking at the images that JT had uploaded onto MSN and noticed a simple typo in the operations
manual page showing a diagram of the Tipler sinusoid field produced by his device where in the diagram, item 10
(Negative Time Event Horizon) had been transposed as item 11 in the diagram, though the item value was printed
correctly in the legend. I didn’t think anything of it until I looked at the same page as found on Ricks site and saw that
the typo was gone from the page. I’m not trying to play pixel person or anything, but unexplained edits to the images
that have been posted do lead me to wonder what other changes are being made. (Then again, a time machine might
just turn out to be a copywriters best friend!)
Tom – For the record, those pictures were pulled from Doc’s site about 3-4 weeks ago, about the time I got involved in this discussion. I’ve had copies of them since then, and have made no modifications. Are you telling me that you found a discrepancy between the ones I have and some OTHER pictures? If so, please give me the URLS where you located them.
Thanks
(Edited & added) – I just read Pamela’s comments on the photos, and sure it is plausible that he had multiple copies of various diagrams. She is also accurate in her statement about military documents being full of errors. I deal with technical orders and other such documents all the time, and they ALWAYS have misprints, typos, misspellings and mislabeled diagrams. Regardless of how much money is being spent on a government project, the documentation is only as good as the cheapest tech-writer they can hire. Remember – LOWEST BIDDER!
Rick
[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:14 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:59 AM
Arrow
Hi James.
I am not defending Javier, nor am I putting him down, but your last post needs a clarification…in fairness.
You wrote to Javier:
“You probably have never experienced Any odd phenomena?”
I cannot be specific, but he has claimed to experience odd phenomena. Some sort of Temporal condition. Impressions I think. Whatever the case, I did not figure him to be a dry non-experiencing figure. At times he has seemed a “tad” biggoted to time travellers. Perhaps he will expand that for clarification.
Not a slam James, I saw an error and am pointing it out. The pages Javier stated his beliefs and experiences were fairly early in the thread and included his web site link that does clearly state his mission.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 07:09 AM
John – Pamela – whoever can get John to listen…
I have offered my serivces as an independant viewer/observer of the departure. I can and will make arrangements to fly to Florida with video taping equipment and some camera gear. However, I need a little lead time to get the equipment to me. Olav, the S4 Data base web master has offered basically unlimited space on the web site, as well as digitizing the video – making it free for folks to see.
I do not believe that making a video “for profit” is going to convince anyone that anything occurred. Worse, turning such a video over to anyone other than say, Art Bell himself, or independent (and skeptical) observers is just plain silly. Anyone with their hands in the “belief” portion of the video might not do as good a job as I might, since I am not really on the “believing” side.
Now… I’ve not had a reply from John at this point, but if his departure is imminent, I still require time to make arrangements for equipment, flight, car rental etc. This would be coming out of my pocket.
That also means I won’t be helping anyone hoax anything.
Now… John… are you going to take me up on this offer or not? If I don’t see it first hand – I doubt a video will make it any more real.
What do the rest of you say?
Rick
[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:18 AM]
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-20-2001 07:49 AM
Wink
I have stated on more than one occasion that I would find it very interesting to have John’s departure recorded, and I have asked John in this forum if he still planned on doing so. I do not believe I was ever directly responded to.
From the basis of comments made in this thread, I view Rick as an open-minded skeptic who would appear to have strong credibility. He has made an offer more than once to document this event at his own expense and I, for one, hope John takes him up on his offer.
What do you say, John? We are all awaiting your response.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 07:59 AM
Red face
That John, just a few days ago stated he was going to have the video done, but was not intending a 3rd party to be there. Indeed this raises the eyebrow, but even if it is a hoax, it is still interesting and I am curious what might happen in the video. I think there was talk of the field surrounding the mechanism, that it might disrupt or corrupt the video if taken too close in distance. I would love for Rick to be a third party assignee for video. He has credibility.
I know that is not what you desire John, but contact Rick. He has the means to handle this and is a skeptic. Besides, according to your description, this world line differs from yours. No harm would come to your family on your world line..that is IF Rick were corrupt, which I sincerely do not think is the case. Perhaps worth considering?
Posted by Alexander A.Shpilman on 03-20-2001 09:46 AM
The history John Titor, resemblances to me a April Fools’ joke of the students.
1) The style of thinking is similar to style of thinking of the American of 1990. And plot of a film-hit:
When all people of the Earth catch illness a “cow rage”. Or such as – what will be, if there will be overturning magnetic poles of the Earth?
2) The history of the people abounds “surprises”. But we to them quickly get accustomed. In this history there are no surprises. There is nothing is paradoxical new.
3) How to distinguish micro Kerr black holes from electron, proton or neutron? The difference will be in mass?
It microsingularites. How it to make macrosingularites? I think, it is necessary better to know thin structure of a matter.
4) It is necessary to distinguish a “global line” from “worldline”. There is an analogy: many people go on the rope bridge. The bridge is swing from a wind and movement of the people. The rope bridge is a “global line” matters (body of the man). “Worldline” is a trajectory of movement of the man in space on the rope bridge. Obviously, a “Global line” from “worldline” are connected among themselves, but they differ.
If I would be TTer, I would study properties of a “global line”. I would study, how the change of events in the past (events at my doubles in the past), my opportunity influences to change events in the present time.
Certainly, it is difficult. But it is possible to begin from study of a situation of planets and stars, earthquakes and hurricanes, in various temporary flows. Then to study the moments of occurrence of scientific opening and moments of creation of masterpieces of art, and their difference in various temporary flows.
In detail about time and OVERTAME look in http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/2n00/OVERTIMEa.htm
and http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/1n01/OVERTIMEa.htm
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 09:53 AM
I have a few more pictures apparently from John now, that we will post on the anomalies site as soon as I can get in touch with my webby guy out there in CA.
I have examined them (the pics of the machine itself) and have not changed my opinion on the machine – it “looks” real enough from a military/government perspective. Even the manuals appear to be what they are perported to be.
One thing to note, which I can not remember if I mentioned before – and I am sure no one else has at this point, is a yellow object in the upper part of the picture of the machine in the vehicle. The yellow device is a geiger counter. I’m familiar with THAT machine specifically – not just gieger counters, but THAT model. I’ve used it. I carried two of them in tactical weather gear in the 1970′s and 80′s. I also used one of those devices extensively during my stay at the White House from 1989-1992 during training at a facility outside of DC, where we trained for NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical) warfare. More specifically I used them during training for “shelter management” where we each played President and others.
Anyway, that is a real device. If you look carefully, you will see an older “CD” or Civil Defense sticker on the side. The device is rather old though – probably built in the mid to late 70s and was an important piece of gear in my weather systems and shelters I took care of in those days. It could have come from old stocks of military gear (in 2013 or later) or it could have come from surplus store in 1999 or 2000. Not sure.
I did want to point out what it was though.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 09:59 AM
Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good.
From the book “Galaxies” by Tim Ferris, yes I know its getting old, but then, why is anyone who deals with the structure of cosmology still are leaning this way:
One of a number of sophisticated cosmological models that have been constructed within the broad purview of the big-bing account of cosmic history, this theory, proposed by J. Richard Gott III of Princeton University, postulates the existence of not one universe but three. It envisions that the big bang gave rise not only to our universe, where matter predominates over antimatter and time runs forward, but a second universe where antimatter predominates and time moves backward, as well as a tachyon universe where everthing moves faster than the velocity of light. Our universe and the antimatter universe are segregated in terms of time. Both are segregated from the tachyon universe in terms of space, since the tachyons in the first instant of creation fled beyond the light cones of all observers in both the matter and antimatter universes.
The Gott cosmology is a masterpiece of symmetry without being dictatorial about it: it predicts, for instance, that there should be traces of contamination of our universe by antimatter (as has been verified by observation) and by tachyons (as has not). Whatever likelihood we might care to assign to its validity, in this combination of symmetry and imperfection the Gott model is redolent of nature’s style.
Now are you sure that you can not communicate with another you in the antimatter universe?
Now what if this is proved. It may prove that God (she) has put you all over the place, and in many different places for one reason, you may have the means to destroy yourself with science of the future.
She(God) has wiped your butt all over the place already, now who won besides (God)?
We all win, maybe, this way.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:11 AM
God may be angry as John proposes, but still, I think it is just humans that are doing the dirty deed, and humans are the ones that are angry. This has nothing to do with God, so if this happens, blame the humans, not God.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:19 AM
This theory leaves at least two Johns running around, and maybe a lot of johns running around.(Alright, it a joke, johns. You are all the other johns running around.)
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-20-2001 10:20 AM
Rick,
Good observation on the device. I’ve been looking through surplus gear sites on the web to find a similar device for sale.
The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 12:02 PM
Albert: Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good.
I am not sure I understood your piece there Albert. Are you saying that because someone else films/video tapes the departure, we might not see it on tape?
I’m not sure what that has to do with antimatter. If John were an anti-matter John, he could not have come here in the first place. One doesn’t have to meet ones-self to destroy oneself when made of antimatter. One mere must contact ANY matter. Matter and antimatter will obliterate one another no matter what form it is in when it contacts.
Darby: The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.
Which is pretty much normal for government equipment. Doesn’t prove anything though. I have equipment that is government gear that has similar lables. None of them are aligned.
As far as a “good call” well, I’m not sure about that, I was just stating what I know to be facts from personal experience. I know, for instance that the yellow geiger counters were standard gear for fallout shelters for military personnel in certain places. I also know that almost NO ONE knew anything about them, how to operate, read or change the batteries in them. I don’t even remember the type of batteries they took but if I remember right, they were C cells (but they might have been 6v lantern batteries too – I simply can not recall that part). I will never forget using them though. The government cost back then was around 900-1200 bucks. Something similar today will run you 750 or 800 commercially, but they aren’t as sturdy as the good old yellow ones were.
I’ve been doing some careful examination of the pictures. They simply aren’t high enough quality to be able to get details though. <shrugs>
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 02:05 PM
I am just saying that John is the one that said that it may prove nothing further, that the pictures will not help anyone believe him to be a TT or not, if they do not already believe.
I would like to see the pictures, though.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 02:30 PM
Albert;
I see your point. But… it will prove it to ME. That’s what *I* care about. Call me selfish if you like, but I could care less if anyone else believes or not. I don’t care if you do, or Javier believes or disbelieves.
I am trying to show 1) Either fraud or 2) John is a time traveler.
If someone goes and actually is present as a witness besides his own family or personal friends, it won’t matter then because they can not fake the photography, nor pull “magic tricks” – smoke and mirrors, whatever you want to call it.
I consider myself qualified as an observer for several reasons.
First and foremost, I’m extremely interested in the outcome of this exercise.
Secondly, I’m a skeptic. For a skeptic to see something with their own eyes, is PROOF POSITIVE to a skeptic. Whether or not YOU believe the skeptic is up to you. If you went I might believe you. If Javier goes, I would definately believe him. Personally, I do not trust Javier to go without doing something to disrupt things. He has made it very clear he has a problem – moral or otherwise, with time travelers.
Thirdly, I’m a “trained observer”. My jobs over the years, from engineer, to teacher, to computer ‘guru’ to storm chaser more than qualifies me to do the job of objectively observing an experiment and giving a truthful and objective report on the subject, no matter what the subject entails.
Fourthly, I’ve heard no one else offer their services, their own hard earned cash or their time to do this. I have. I certainly haven’t seen Art Bell come in the forum and post his thoughts. If he had, and offered to be there, and perhaps do a live report, that would have been the best thing. I don’t think he will – for several reasons. But most importantly, it could be dangerous!
Fifthly – Danger… been there, done that. I’m afraid of heights and don’t climb if I dont have to. I do have antenna towers in the back and climb them. I have to. I hate and am afraid of flying. I’ve been to 42 countries. I didn’t get there on a slow boat. I’ve been shot at many times in Central America, and also in the middle east. Nancy Reagan and Richard Nixon have chewed my ass. I’m not afraid of anything else (except spiders). I do not have to fly (cept to get there), I don’t have to climb (cept perhaps to get a good video shot), I don’t have to deal with spiders, Nancy Reagan or Richard Nixon. I DO have to get truthful video, good pictures and even perhaps an interview if John would consent to doing so. This I CAN DO.
Sixthly – I consider myself a decent writer. You will get a very good report.
Now… Whether you chose to believe the data that I will bring you, is up to you – and each person will have to decide. Without knowing me personally, none of you can be sure I’m not a government agent, I’m not a Russian Spy or I’m not in cahoots with John.
Since I’m not any of these things, and I don’t have much else I can show you right now to prove this, you’ll have to take my word. For now.
However, anyone that wants to know more about me is welcome to read up on my writing, my bio and a lot of other stuff on my web site. You can – as several people have pointed out, get a good idea of a person’s background from their writing. It might take you some time, but, the data is there. I’m not extremely private, and anyone that wants to find me, can. My “secrets” are things that I’ve done for the government and no one will get that information from me under ANY circumstances, but the rest of my life is pretty much an open book.
Now… do you want to trust your intutition completely, your eyes and ears, me, John or this forum? You decide.
Rick
[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 02:34 PM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 04:21 PM
Dear “FREE”,
Thankyou for the “jet” link. I read all of it.
yes, that was very interesting.
wasn’t sure if I could use your email address to respond back to you.
but I wanted to let you know I did read it all.
and I will keep what you said in mind.Thankyou for being concerned.
sincerely,
pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 08:22 PM
The Stoneage you said huh? Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of Medieval Times. I always liked playing with Swords and fighting when I was a kid.
My big brother would be the Ninja (a real ninja) and beat me up all the time. Ahh the good ole’ days .
-Javier C.
P.S. Mel and James. Excuse me for having a little fun here for a change. When do I ever? And when I do, I get hassled about it.
You don’t know me, you don’t know what I am capable of. I have abilities and control that alot of people my age lack. Maybe once you learn to not accept life for it’s flaws, and stand up for what’s right, you’ll make something of your self.
And see that I was right all along .
[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 at 08:35 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:53 PM
Here’s what I think of John at this point.
It really does not matter if he is a TT or not, well, it might.
John thought about some things going on and with technology and he decided that he had something to say about the future as he saw it. He came up with a story to get people interested with what he was thinking. That was: time travel may be possible in the future, if it is, and other countries found out, this may not be good. He presented it as a story to strongly interest people about what they thought about the future, if time travel becomes a reality.
He may have a three year old and wonder what kind of world he will grow up in.
I must admit that I was not really thinking in those terms, so to me it was a wake up call. You get going with school, life, and hear news but it nevers just clicks with you.
The What If?
I tend to look at the world through rose colored glasses sometimes, and that becomes too relaxed.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 11:38 PM
Here’s something I found out this year. During the Cold War or maybe about in the ’70′s, the Russians were working on a new type of jet engine. This engine that uses, if I remember right because its not at the newscientist website anymore, ionized gases to control the engine. This means that it needs no wings, no airelons, or controls. Just by changing the ionized gas flowing around the engine, this engine is unique. Now NASA been informed of it, and is working with it, and Russia can build a plane, not mach speed, but for transport that uses this type of engine. It called something like “Plasma” engine. If you like to consider the fact that this engine may be a prototype UFO, I guess it may also be something of a forerunner that could eventually be used to some effect as a UFO moves. Consider that. Russians are not dumb. At the BBC Talking Point, they had the question, just a few weeks ago “Is Russia a Superpower?” Now responses came from around the world, including Russians. One said that they have some bright theoretical physics students, and they have pride in their country. The answer to me is simple: Do they have nuclear weapons? Yes. They are still a Superpower.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-21-2001 08:03 AM
The problem with being 21 is that noone ever takes you seriously. We all know that. You should be enjoying yourself right now. You are far too serious, intense and vindictive. You have been raggin’ on this guy through this whole thread. I certainly don’t know if John is for real. The one thing I do know is that this has been a great topic and that you need to lighten up and stop trying to save us all with your “Time Cop” role.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 11:45 AM
Here’s another thing, well, maybe not that important.
Harpoon IV is coming out about the end of this year or so.
The Navy people play this game. I have Harpoon II and you can download it free, I think still, at website Home of the Underdogs, I think but not sure, its underdogs.com. Well, written by Larry Bond, a Naval Officer of many years, it is about Naval Warfare. The database is well worth looking at, to view for the most part, the Navies of different nations, and type of weapons. Its the closes to having about the best unclassified weapons of war of the modern age. The new one being programmed by someone else will be more of a 3-D type Harpoon. Russians weapons are usually twice the size of US weapons and if you get hit by one, that’s about it. The US weapons usually take 2 or 3 to sink one of their submarines or ships. In any case, Russians have more subs than anything else right now, besides land warfare. The new Harpoon IV will have landings of Marines on shore. I learned a great deal about weapon systems on this planet from that computer game.
Just a thought.
That Russian engine is still a kind of jet engine. The only way it might fly, (and I am just imagining), around is put it so it swivels. Just dreaming at this point. Still more like a regular airplane. Ionized gases instead of whatever jet engines use, (air?).
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 12:25 PM
Cool
I’ll get off.
Here’s a for instance:
Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does.
2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about.
It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US.
And they do not have to be accurate.
So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:24 PM
Albert:I’ll get off.
Here’s a for instance:
Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does.
2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about.
It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US.
And they do not have to be accurate.
So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy.
Albert… what are you talking about? A “small weapon”? A “large weapon”? There is no such thing as a “200 mile blast range”. The fireball from the largest ever known thermonuclear weapon was less than 5 miles in diameter. The Russians are purported to have built a 350 megaton bomb at one point, of course, we do not know this for sure and it is rumor.
Your numbers are way out of scale. I suggest you spend some time doing some research on the subject before you quote numbers. I’ll tell you where to start…
http://www.janes.com/
http://www.milnet.com/milnet/nukeweap/nfaq0.htm
http://sun00781.dn.net/nuke/hew/
http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/rusnukes.html
http://www.enviroweb.org/issues/nuketesting/nukeffct/
http://www.dnfsb.gov/
This should get you started. You will not find anywhere in any of the data where there are 200 mile radii damage zones. Even with the worst thing the Russians can throw at the United States there might be a 7-10 mile damage radius around the blast zone.
In my reserch, 20 Megatons seems to be the absolute maximum any one weapon will do. Yeah, they are bad, they are radioactive and they are gonna do some serious, serious damage to the land and perhaps even the planet. However, 200 bombs will not “obliterate” the United States.
However – as I JUST finished writing last night in an article, if you’re planning on giving up now, before such a war or survival situation comes up, please – feel free to ship me your food, and weapons. I CERTAINLY will put them to good use.
Rick
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:32 PM
Pictures of the time machine and the manual for those who have NOT yet seen them, are located at:
http://www.anomalies.net
http://survival.anomalies.net
Exact URLs are as follows:
http://www.anomalies.net/time_traveler/
http://survival.anomalies.net/time_travel.htm
I understand there are some more, that I’ve missed and they are supposed to be sent to me shortly.
Rick
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-21-2001 08:00 PM
Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and continue ****ing me off. So here I go…
Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate? (Everyone in my family knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese, my blood demands it). Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling? How about going through Army Basic Training? I know tough, if anything I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old.
I am incredibly disciplined. I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong.
Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve seen people taken advantage of. Maybe it’s different where you were brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about them. So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about the wrong things in life. You don’t see many young people doing that, and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned.
Thank you very much;
those were my 2 cents,
-Javier C.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 11:04 PM
Rick,
If you have contact with Boomer please attempt to verify the elapsed time (on his internal chronometer) for his trip from 2036 to 1975. I need that data for a calculation.
Two problems still unresolved:
Problem #1
Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4 to 5 meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg (1/2,000,000th the mass of the Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)…
anyone see where I’m going with this?
Problem #2
There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site:
Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone.
The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that the x-rays are vented directly at the driver.
I’ll post the answer to problem #1 later. Just giving everyone else a chance to do the math.
Hint: R=2GM/c^2 (I posted this formula with little comment for Boomer last week. He didn’t pick up on its significance.)
[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 at 11:16 PM]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 12:06 AM
Rick,
I do hope that you get a chance to see Boomer off. But a video won’t help prove the veracity of Boomer’s story. If what he says is true you’ll only have a video fogged by x-ray emmissions (and maybe some leukemia for yourself). If its unfogged then everything given to you to post on your site about the device is false and misleading.
The last time I checked the physics I didn’t see an “on-off” switch for a black hole or any other singularity. Whether his machine is on or off the singularities continue to generate an event horizon. The singularities are contained in the black box. I have a very good idea of what the Schwarzchild Radius of the alleged micro-singularities should be. The black box lies within the event horizon. How does one photograph an object inside the event horizon from the exterior of the event horizon (in this case the driver’s window of a Chevy pick-up)?
If there is an x-ray problem associated with his machine how is it that his photos aren’t fogged? And, though he’s never said that he hasn’t let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:47 AM
In my opinion, I don’t believe John, A.k.a “Boomer” expected people to not believe him this close to his leave date of April 10th (his window of opportunity). I’m sure he wanted everyone to believe his story. But in-light to what Darby has shown us, and John’s unwillingness to rebuttal. We must now see that he has forfeited his opportunity to prove us wrong (your silence only incriminates you and confirms that you are a fraud). Cause he him self is wrong. Somehow, I think Darby was an unexpected variable. I’m glad you were apart of this discussion; I take my hat off to you Darby , great job.
Just something to think about… I know that some of John’s loyal subjects will continue to think he was for real. But I have never, nor have I ever wished that he were a real Time Traveler. The rest of you, shame-shame. Always answering questions for him, defending him, giving him a way out, never really letting him do it all on his own. Always sounded like Heaven’s Gate to me.
Until then, I think John has sung his last song. Either that, or he’s cramming as much math, physics and logic to assist him in answering the last questions. Last chance to make people believers aye John?
I expect a good answer John, if you do decide to answer . If not, that was pretty rude of you to leave without saying good-bye. Or what kind of idiots do you take us for making an excuse like that .
-Javier C.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 01:29 AM
Javier,
What surprises me about the believers is that they apparently never really looked closely at what Boomer was telling them. Now, I don’t think he’s a bad guy – I’ve enjoyed the time (there’s that word again) we’ve spent together bantering this subject – but…
Here’s who Boomer says he is (from the totality of his posts but more specifically his early posts):
A civil war begins in the U.S. when he’s six years old (2004). By 2012, at age 14, he’s a member of a Florida vanguard revolutionary brigade fighting the “enemy state”. He and his military assist the former Soviet Union (Russia) with their invasion of the United States. He said, “The enemy attacked by Russia was the forces of the government you are under now.” He said that the conflict “will consume everyone in the U.S. by 2012”. This will be followed by a short WWIII in 2015.
Surely some of the gentle readers have children. Lola has two teenagers. Who else has children, spouses, loved ones who will be of military service age between 2004 and 2012? Boomer admits to making war on the United States and giving aid and comfort to the invading enemy forces. Sounds like treason from our perspective. Sounds like murder if its your children that he kills in the conflict. As Rick Donaldson would say, we are the government – we the people. Boomer says that we are the enemy.
So – for the supporters: do you really hope that he’s what he says that he is? Is this what you want for your children?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:33 AM
Rick, I check it out later.
To me, after seeing movies of H-bombs, early pictures, I was under the impression that a shock-wave is what goes that far or so. Pictures I seen of old ’50′s type mushroom clouds had trees down and everything flated by the shockwave of the blast. That’s what I’m going by.
I look it up later, I have to catch up on things I have to get done.
I been just thinking, like Emmett perhaps, doesn’t anyone see anything wrong with building, how can I put it?
I think John said essentially, although I may have to review:
An electron fed, spin controlled, (for the ergospheres), rotating microsingularity.
At one point, because I was reading some posts of John, he said that controlling the spin of (what I thought)the microsingularity was what kept the ergospheres in line. Controlling both ‘spins’ of the microsingularities.
How would you ever control the spin of a subatomic particle?
All we do is blast them in the accelerators to photograph the tracks made, because you can not even see the particles, only the tracks that were left by the particles.
I have seen pictures, and if it were not for the track’s photograph, there would be no picture of the particle. The particle had already decayed, or something, that only left the tracks to be photographed. That’s all anyone can get from blasting particles near the speed of light. They were black and white photographs that only showed the tracks of the particle. Someday, I have to look up those photographs, maybe they have them at a particle accelerator website.
No, I was not on the Internet then, this was way back when I was in my local astronomy club. Over 11 years ago. I remember those photos. I think it was Wayne the founder of the club who brought us those photographs. Just a sorta long white-looking track where the particle had gone after smashing. Yes, if you saw them, …… spiraling off after impact.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:45 AM
Here’s John’s post (part of it, don’t ask me what page):
The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for both. There are two singularities. Their mass and spin is altered in order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons to interact and create the gravity sinusoid. I have a basic home schooling education (k-12) and a bachelor’s degree in history.
I would like to know when humans can control the mass and spin of a singularity?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 07:30 AM
Javier – You kill me. Haha. Basic training? You’re 21 years old and have been through basic? But you’re not in the military? What happened there? Typically, there is a minimum of three years of service required after basic training. Get kicked out for your attitude? <chuckles>
Darby: Problem #1
Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4
to 5 meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg
(1/2,000,000th the mass of the Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)…
anyone see where I’m going with this?
I see where you’re going – weight of the machine among other things. Also – I do not believe that this is the schwarzschild radius that he is talking about. That radius is the “blue event horizon” – and… I hate to say this, but nothing within that radius would be seen again. So… this is more like the theory behind tipler cylinders (read up on that, I’m not gonna explain it here). Basically though, you do NOT enter into the radius when traveling along a tipler cylinder.
Problem #2
There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site:
Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone.
The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that
the x-rays are vented directly at the driver.
Where’s the problem? Hehehe. But, you have to note, that the diagram is NOT TO SCALE. Also, remember that no matter what government document you’re talking about, if it is a manual, it is GOING TO CONTAIN INACCURACIES. The government uses “lowest bid” – remember?
About the “fogging of the film”… well, yes true, if it is film. Video tape is magnetic. X-rays will not affect magnetic tape in this manner – that is by fogging the video. There might be some “magenetic domains” knocked out of place by x-radiation, however, the result would be these little sparkles you see on the TV when you do not have a very good (strong) signal coming in. We call it “snow”. I’m sure folks have seen this before.
I haven’t really done any calculations on the distance of the event horizon from the actual “surface” of a black hole – but, I know what I’ve read states that the event horizon is actually very close to the “surface” (if indeed it could be called a surface). Point being, we’re talking about a ‘microsingularity’. I have my doubts as to whether it can exist inthe first place, but a physcist friend tells me that it is possible for such a thing and indeed, there have been discussions of doing JUST that with a linear accelerator. The problem was that they just weren’t sure if it would decay quickly or become something that might envelop the earth. There was no discussion of the “weight” of such a thing, because it is man made, and would not be a true singularity.
I won’t dispute any calculations you have made regarding the Schwarzchild Radius of the microsingularity, but I will say, I believe it to be on the order of microns rather than inches or feet. Remember, we’re talking about something the size of an electron.
By the way, *I* can tell electrons which way to spin and I’m not a “full fledged physcist”. So I suppose it wouldn’t be that big of a stretch to force a black hole to spin this way or that.
Albert: I probably misunderstood your post. Yes, the blast radius is pretty big, but it isn’t 200 miles in any case. Remember a blast wave is basically a supersonic sound wave and it will dissapate over distance. That dissapation is based on several factors, like density of the air, temperature, how close to the ground, etc etc. I’m sure I left something out. In any case, a blast wave will be very strong very close to ground zero (the point of the ground above which the bomb is detonated). As the wave travels outward, and the distance increases, the overpressure drops quickly. I believe it is an inverse of the distance traveled. That basically means – as an example (and I’m not sure this is completely accurate, but those links I gave will tell you for sure) as the distance doubles the overpressure will be reduced by a factor of four. (It’s too early for me to do math, and I was called into work last night, so I’m doubly tired now).
Damage from a nuclear bomb would be devastating, but only in the target area. That means… perhaps at distances of up to 10 miles away there would be damage, increasingly worse as you get closer and closer to ground Zero. But – as you get further and further away the damage is reduced. Basically.. I have a ranch style house – I’m seven miles from Cheynne mountain. If they hit it with a 20 megaton bomb, my house goes bye bye. My basement, however, will remain intact. It is below ground level and unless the fire ball touches the region below ground, then below ground is safe, that’s been my point all along. Hence, survivablity of nuclear attacks.
Your black and white photos of tracks of particle trails was accomplished actually, very easily. I’ve performed those precise experiments without the aid of an accelerator myself. The tracks actually are drawn in a cloud of vapor – usually CO2 vapor. In fact when I did it, I used radium from a old wrist watch, and dry ice for the vapor. The trails were CLEARLY visible with the naked eye. When examined under a magnifying glass (I used a microscope) I could seen the decay as a long trail that fell into a “death spiral” as I called it. When the particles decayed completely, the spiral ended. Of course this occured VERY fast, and essentially, I saw only the result of the decay, which was the track in the fog.
I did these experiments when I was 15 years old or so, in my basement lab. I had a fully stocked chemistry/physics lab when I was a kid. That stopped the day I ****ed near killed everyone in the house with clorine gas… duh… Anyway, I decided that chemistry wasn’t my bag, and went instead into electronics and physics after that.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 08:30 AM
It is obvious that you think too much of yourself. Am I supposed to be scared? What I am saying is that you are wasting too much of your young life getting worked up over a post like this. You will be old soon enough and you’ll wish you did things differently.
You have mentioned that you are very mature for your age. Who are you trying to convince, yourself? The overreactions are not a sign of maturity. You also seem to have a propensity to want to smash things like this time machine. Is that a sign of maturity?
The answer to all those pointless things you mentioned is, no. Please channel your energy into things that will further your career. Someday you’ll thank me for this.
[Edited by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 at 08:33 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 09:35 AM
I need to post something here… I have nothing to do with any possible military involvement in this forum. I want folks to understand that I am simply interested in this for the sake of science fiction, science fact and a very strong curiosity about time travel.
John can not be reached right now. And certain other individuals appear to have been contacted. I can’t say more, but… if anyone is contacted by “military personnel” make sure you get names, ranks and any other information you can from them. Give it to me. I DO have the means to verify their existence. Now… I just put MY ass on the line here, so if someone DOES contact you.. I wanna know right away, but if you don’t have a name, rank, base of operations, serial number or anything else, then they are probably not real.
Listen… if someone contacts you in email and says they are “investigating this or that” and claim to be military – ask them:
1) What branch of service?
2) What organization are you in?
3) What is your military rank and pay grade?
4) Are you a law enforcement officer?
5) Why are you contacting ME?
If you get these silly-assed answers about “National Security” or whatever – then ask them:
“What is YOUR need to know?” and end the conversation. You have Constitutional rights, even where National Security is involved. So, remember that. And unless and until they contact you IN PERSON and SHOW A BADGE, ID CARD or other authorizing documentation (like, let’s say a WARRANT) then they can’t even be bothering you if you do not invite them to do so.
Rick
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 11:07 AM
Darby,
This stuff is for fun, remember? Traitors? Good Grief!(good grief is probably a good example of those linguistic time frame give aways)
Lola
[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 11:18 AM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:26 AM
Mel,
Some things are worth fighting for. And as you can see, others are following in. You took my wanting to smash his machine to serious. After all, it was in a joke you probably took as serious as well. And worked your self up to frenzy about it, and into a debate against me, about something you found immature in a joke . Now who’s overreacting…?
I don’t think that highly of my self, how you think I probably do. I merely mentioned that (for the first time here) of what I know and can do and feel in my heart, to show you that I am mature. Not that you care, not that I care, it’s just that you were ****ing me off making unfair assumptions, while not even knowing me. And still are.
I have nothing to prove to anyone, I can careless. Just don’t attack my character, because that’s personal.
Btw way, how old are you? Are you speaking about maybe your life? Why do you have many regrets? I find it that sometimes people your age speak from experience… Well let me tell you something, not all 21 year olds end up with a screwed up life. I am just happened to want to do something about the world’s condition. But I guess those ideals died in you along time ago, and now accept the life you have everyday for what it is. Man, that’s sad. Maybe instead of condemning us young “whimper snappers,” you should listen to us. Our will to fight is strong (some of us) might wake you up and feel the need to do something.
Sincerely,
Javier C.
P.S. Yeah Rick, shortly after BCT, I got medically discharged. It’s a personal matter though, and I don’t wish to talk about it thanks.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:29 AM
Oh come on Lola, it’s it for fun, then tell me how many times have I been attacked by you, and told that I am hostile?
Please.
-J.C.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 11:47 AM
Mel, I’ve been following this thread and it’s comicbook format for some time now. I don’t think it matters if this Titor guy is from the future or from Jersey. It was fun listening to his rap. The other guy Xavier?….well.
“Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and continue ****ing me off. So here I go…”
Ok, that was a classic ‘Ming the Merciless’ opener. Guess we’ll have to set our blasters on stun. Here comes the pedigree.
“Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate?”
No and if I was I would know that it is considered very poor behavior to tout one’s supposed skill in martial arts.
“(Everyone in my family knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese, my blood demands it).”
The parenthesis is to inform us of qualifying information…as if he were saying it under his breath while delivering the Vulcan Death Grip.
“Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling?”
This is to let you know that in the tradition of the WWF…”Talk’s cheap Bozo! Let’s get it on!”…and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…
“How about going through Army Basic Training?”
No thanks, already went through Marine training myself back when it WAS hard and the little pieces of army guys get caught between my teeth.
“I know tough, if anything I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old.”
The average 21 year old is a limp sack of s**t who worships at a mall and is more concerned with the tenderness of his feelings than the toughness of his resolve.
“I am incredibly disciplined.”
This guy should get together with Helen Reddy and roar.
“I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong.”
Sounds like he’s running for office here.
“Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve seen people taken advantage of.”
James Taylor couldn’t say it any better…gimme’ my guitar and lemme’ put on that workshirt and wide belt….
“Maybe it’s different where you were brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about them.”
Using two ‘I’s like that gives me a suspicion that this may be a Rastafarian masquerading as a Pastafarian..
“So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about the wrong things in life.”
Well, at least he apologizes but I wish he would bring back that stand. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
“You don’t see many young people doing that, and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned.”
Bring up super of American flag come in for close up as tear rolls down cheek raise music and fade to credits…..
“Thank you very much; those were my 2 cents,”
Final shot thanking the armed forces for their help and cooperation and the people of China for their one quarter donation of genetic material….go to black. End.
[Edited by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 at 11:50 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 12:14 PM
Arrow
Hi, I commend your passion for what you yourself believe. I wish to point out that every other person in the world also has their own beliefs. It is when a person appears to, or even tries to foist their own beliefs on others that the problems arise. Not everyone here believes that TT is an immoral or evil technology. You know this, but my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif in a counter-productive way.
Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious because of that. At your web site you describe your beliefs. It was an interesting read, but it is also not in the same form of presentation as you are giving here. I would actually like to know more about your view, but you seem to view people who are older than you in a distrustful if not aggravated way. Although I believe differently than you about the application of TT technology, I would sincerely be interested in understanding your belief when presented in a less inflamed fashion.
For the sake of discussion, suppose John really is a TT. What are you specifically trying to accomplish in this dialogue? If you feel others are wrong, ok, but say why others are wrong without attacking. I mean, if you want someone to understand your viewpoint, calling them sheep is a bad way to start.
Phil
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 12:16 PM
Wink
I do not think that Russia attacks the US with people, just missiles.
Anyway, I have no information about much of this topic.
It would not do anybody any good to ask me any question.
I just tried to bring up points for discussion and maybe some ‘bad’ jokes.
Rick, look at it this way,:
If you have enough advance warning like John said,
how long would it take you to drive to Omaha (maybe an airplane)(about 611 miles)?
You can ball me out in person, if this story is true.
Bring some water, and a distillation unit for it, and how fast can you really drive, if enough advanced warning.
You can tell me all day, ‘See, I told you so!’ or something.
In fact, it true, how long would it take anyone to get to Omaha, I drove straight through to Florida, 1200 miles, only took 24 hours, on a lazy driving trip.
We can all sit down and have a cup of coffee of something.
Or I’ll be on my way surely, if all this is happening.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 12:20 PM
Ok,
I think Lee tapped the nail on the head… once, then drove it home. LOL.
Sorry, but that was funny as all get-out. But, I don’t think it is necessary for any of us to be attacking anyone. Once the forum degenerates for those who are (perhaps) trying to cause it to degenerate, no longer will communication work.
In other words, as much fun as Javier, Lee, myself and others are having with the barbs and insults… they are very counter-productive.
I personally apologize to Javier for my comment about his military discharge. That wasn’t any of my business and I really shouldn’t have taken it to that level. I’m sorry Javier. Your discharge is not the subject of discussion here (even though you DID throw it out to be picked on like you did, I shouldn’t have picked on it).
Now – I’m not saying that we shouldn’t debate. In fact, I think a good argument is very good, however, we should stick as closely to the facts as we see them, and try to explain to each other WHY we take the tack we take on talking the way we are. I’ve tried in past posts to do so.
Now – another subject. My post a few back that is entitled “Military Involvment”… please do not read anything into that. I’ve received several quite interesting messages today trying to dechiper what I said.
PLEASE – There is NOTHING to dechiper. What I intended was a sort of “panic reduction” message. Sometimes in these forums (and this is not the first, nor will it be the last) people get the feeling they are being stalked by the government, or some Men in Black or something. I can’t say that doesn’t happen, but I can tell you from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that if someone suspects you of some national security violation, they are NOT going to contact you via email.
They ARE going to find out what you’re about, and might even contact you in person, but they will be legitimate law enforcement officers, not men in black, not guys in green or any other Three-Letter-Agency EXCEPT the FBI.
See the FBI is the US Law Enforcement agency that has jurisdiction over national security matters within the United States and its territories. NSA ain’t coming out, CIA won’t bother with you, and if there are Men in Black, I bet you dimes to Martian quarters they aren’t Americans (or Earthlings). http://www.artbell.com/img/marsmoney.jpg
So chances are, if some dufus from the Pentagon is contacting you via email, he is definately a dufus, isn’t authorized, and certainly isn’t from the Pentagon (or any other such place, Area 51, UFO Island or anywhere else). If the guy comes to your door with a badge book and says “FBI”… ask him if he has a warrant and then send him on his way if he doesn’t.
Otherwise… don’t get too wrapped up in being paranoid.
That’s MY job.
Rick
[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 at 01:38 PM]
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-22-2001 12:27 PM
Smile
Just when things started getting REALLY interesting….
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM
I’m really, really sorry if my little cut-up has hurt ANYONE’S feelings or bruised the ever so delicate sensitivities of others who post here. I’m especially sorry if I’ve hacked off the Chinese. I just thought Mel was getting short shrift and…well…dang it all..Mel, dude…I LOVE YOU MAN! There, I’m glad I got that off my chest. Now I’m gonna look at those fuzzy pictures of John’s time traveling golf cart and see if I can make heads or tails out of any of it.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM
Lee Heggy,
Thank you very much for scrutinizing everything I said in a Howard Stern manner. But you missed my point. You asked no real questions, had no real dialogue. Just commented and ran off saying vicinities. Just like Mel.
I take it you speak like this often.
((and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…))
Maybe because of people like you.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:38 PM
I think I got your point quite well and if not then you just made it for me with your nasty little tag at the end of your squawk. Sorry if I stepped on your tail.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:41 PM
Where you been Phil?
(( but my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif in a counter-productive way. ))
What would be a productive way for you?
((Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious because of that.))
If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegal drugs?
((….. you seem to view people who are older than you in a distrustful if not aggravated way.))
When? All I did was answer Mel’s question