Photo by Jessi Rose
When I first attempted to call Buzz Osborne for a phone interview, he hung up on me. Not once but three times.
I eventually had to give up and contact his publicist to reschedule. When I finally got to talk to him the next day, he told me that he had thought I was a telemarketer, due to the robot voice in my iPhone app I use for interviews that informs you that you’re being recorded. The funny thing is, though I didn’t get to talk to him until 24 hours after our originally scheduled time, it was a perfect introduction into the personality of Buzz: he’s brash, he’s quick on his feet and he doesn’t have time for your shit.
While Buzz is arguably one of the most influential men in the early ’90s Seattle scene and, in turn, the sludge-metal movement of today, he has also gained infamy for his brutally frank attitudes about music and the world as a whole. Dubbed “King Buzzo” by the head of Boner Records in the early ’90s in response to his constant string of unabashed opinions (much like a scowly, cynical, crazy-haired king), Buzz is not afraid to tell you exactly what’s on his mind. However, what was originally intended to be a 15-minute interview ended up being nearly 40 minutes long because it was such a blast talking to him. Most of my original questions were thrown out the window (to which he said, “Good”) and were replaced by banter about how journalists have simultaneously supported and annoyed him, how the Seattle scene wasn’t the “good ol’ days” that people remember it as and why most bands just really aren’t that good. Enjoy.
So your publicist tells me you like to do interviews in the morning. Have you always been a morning person?
No, not always. It started happening to me about 17 years ago? I started just waking up early. I get up basically at sunrise.
Why do you think that happened?
I don’t know! When I lived in an apartment I would sleep until noon. When I moved into a house I just couldn’t sleep in anymore, you know? I couldn’t make it work. For whatever reason. The only time I can is when I’m on tour if I’m up ‘til three in the morning.
Thirty years ago, what would you have been doing at this time of day?
Thinking about going to work, probably. At a grocery store in Montesano, Washington. I’ve always had jobs since I was a teenager. I’ve never not worked, you know? Basically my parents didn’t really have money for me, so if I wanted money I had to go out and get it myself. Which is fine with me–I’ve never really bitched about it–that’s just how it was. The guys–the two guys I’m still friends with from that era – they all worked too. Nothing new, you know? Teenagers now don’t work. They can’t get jobs. It’s unfortunate. It means they get no job experience, they don’t know how to deal with a hot-headed boss, and they have no idea how to even make change to a customer! Plus you don’t have money! You know? It’s crazy. But I always loved working because I wanted money. I wanted money. That was it, you know?
Do you think that might be why you’re so prolific as a musician?
Well, you know, even then, I had a fear of being broke. A severe fear of it. And I wanted to do everything I could to keep that from happening. That has progressed until this very day. I have a fear of being broke. And I’m definitely a workaholic. There’s no question of that. One form or another. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing, personally. I like it.
In your whole career, what do you think is the weirdest thing you’ve ever done?
Weirdest? I guess the weirdest thing would be the whole Nirvana explosion out of something that we started, you know? That was pretty weird. The fact that our influence, musically, was basically on a massive, global level. That’s pretty weird. At the same time, it’s very exciting that I wasn’t wrong. My initial instincts were correct. You take a homogenized, bastardized version of what we’re doing, it can indeed sell millions of records. And that’s exactly what happened.
It seems like that’s still sort of happening today—I mean now with sludge as opposed to the grunge explosion of the ’90s, but I see The Melvins on so many heavy bands’ list of influences.
Well that’s great. I’m into it. Believe me. I’m very grateful about that. There’s nothing bad about that. I like what I’m doing and I like talking about what we’re doing. That’s why me and you are talking right now!
Yeah!
I think it’s important. And people like you have never given up on us. The print media and [journalists] in general has always been on our side. Every other kind of media isn’t. So I’ve taken full advantage of that as much as possible because I believe in what I’m doing. I believe everyone should buy our records. In the whole world.
I agree.
I think they should! I don’t have any problem with that. I am a supporter of what I do. I think everyone should know about it and everybody should buy it.
I think journalists—well, journalists who are doing it for journalism’s sake, anyway—and bands like The Melvins are all fighting for the same things. We’re all trying to uphold the same values in the world.
Well, you’d like to think. I mean, my experience with most journalists is that they’re journalists for a little while and then they go do something else. But same with musicians. I mean, with musicians, there’s a light in their eye about music until they turn about 30. You know? If it’s not going anywhere at that point, the light dims and they move on to something else. [laughs] Or they do things like raising a family. So you see less of them. There’s less people at our age going to our shows than younger people. So what happened is we figure we lose about 20 percent of our audience every year but we gain younger people and new people as well. So it’s all good. If we sat around and did nothing for two years, I think it would wane. I’ve never had the guts to give that a shot. Plus I don’t have the bread for that. I like to work. I have no problem working. I’ve always assumed I’d pay my own way and that’s fine with me. I don’t believe the road to happiness should be mooched out of someone else’s pocket. I don’t believe that. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I really do.
I figure I work on this harder than most people work on their job. And that’s fine with me. You’ll never hear me complain about that kind of crap. Never. You know? “Oh I’m working so hard.” I think everyone should work hard! They should all bust their ass doing whatever they do to the best of their ability. Every step of the way. Bar none.
I’ve watched interviews with you before where you’ve talked about how there will never be another band like The Beatles because someone has to invest a lot of money to make that happen. How do you feel about bands these days using crowd-funding sites like Kickstarter to pay for the making of their records instead of earning and saving the money themselves?
Well I don’t really know much about Kickstarter except that you have to trust people to actually do what they say they’re going to do. I don’t know that I personally would invest a lot of money in that. I guess it’s okay, but if I was going to be involved in a Kickstarter project I’d have to know a little more about it. I think time will tell if the Kickstarter thing works out well or if people just use it as a way to scam people out of money. But honestly I am not an expert in that department. I have no idea how that works. It’s really premature for me to speak against it.
Well basically it’s like, “Pre-order our album and in exchange we’ll use that money to make the album” instead of fronting all of the money for the record and hoping that people buy it later.
Yeah, I mean I guess I understand the concept. But I just don’t trust human nature that much if that makes sense. I don’t trust people do do what they say they’re going to do. [laughs] I wish I could!
At the age of, say, 25, would you have been comfortable going to people and saying, “Pre-order our project!”?
Well when I was 25 I probably could have gotten 10 people to say they would give me money and it would have been less than 10 dollars apiece. So I mean I guess I started making money when I was 25, but you have to look at what, you know? If you take the average college student and you add up their student loans and they amount of time they go to college without working, they’re hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt before they ever make a dime. The rock music business isn’t a whole lot different than that. The vast majority of people who are involved in bands don’t ever make any money. Nothing. And when they start making money, they forget that they have to add in all the time and effort they spent before that before they can look at it as if they’re making money. It’s unfortunate, but that’s just how it is! That’s life. Nobody said life is fair.
I guess the Kickstarter thing is a good idea, but to me, when people start asking for a hundred thousand dollars, you’re really going to have to convince me that that you have some idea of how this whole thing is going to work. I don’t really have much interest in that. Especially when you take into consideration that when car companies were invented in America, you had about five-hundred car companies at once. Literally five-hundred. That was narrowed down to about five companies or six big companies because most of them didn’t know what they were doing. This won’t be a whole lot different than that. With very few exceptions, you’ll have to prove to me that the people who want this Kickstarter money are actually people who are going to do something that’s going to turn a profit. I don’t necessarily believe that. Trust is an earned thing to me. It’s not a given.
Do you think it bypasses the work ethic you were talking about earlier that you absolutely have to have in order to succeed?
Well, to me, if you’re taking somebody’s money for a job, you are taking on the responsibility of doing that job. If you fail in your responsibility to do that job then you are a failure. Unless you are completely confident in what you’re doing, it just seems like it’s risky. But you know, nothing ventured, nothing gained. And like I said at the beginning, I’m no expert on Kickstarter. I have no idea. I guess it’s good if you really trust it. I don’t know what the history is on it. I don’t know what the success versus failure rate is on it. I’d have to look at it and go, “Wow, this is a really great idea.”
To be honest, I’m no expert either.
I know about what we can do and what we can expect per dollar invested so I just take it from there. I understand that for me, in order to make a living doing what I’m doing I have to, number one; not alienate my entire fan-base and two; make things interesting for people who aren’t a fan as well. But it also has to be weird. We’ve relied on that. That’s part of our thing. And that’s okay with me! Totally fine. I expect it.
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s made you a hero in a lot of people’s eyes.
Well, you know, we honestly operate the band in a way that we would like to see other bands operate. As a music fan, I operate this band in a way that I would like other bands to operate. That’s it. With that in mind. I’ve said this before but I’ve always assumed that I have good taste. If I write music that I like, other people will like it. It’s not going to sell millions, but it will work.
It certainly has.
We like to laugh that we’re “thousand-aires.” Not even that many thousands! But I am making a living. If can pay my bills doing this and I am making something that matters then I consider this a massive success. The whole world of the Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame and everything? That stuff doesn’t exist for me. It’s not part of my world, you know? I don’t have anything to do with it. It’s almost like that stuff doesn’t exist. In the same way that AOR radio didn’t exist for a lot of bands in the ’80s. We just operate outside those things. We’re able to have a career in music without ever being on the radio or MTV or any of that stuff. Or sell a lot of records. It’s totally possible to do it. I think that’s great.
Also, I think it’s also created a certain breed of fan that wouldn’t necessarily be as devout if they had gotten you off of MTV or something. Because people have to work harder to listen to you, I think they’re more loyal, more loving fans.
That might be true, but I don’t know. It’s difficult for me to say at this point.
How do the fans of today compare to the fans of, say, 1992?
Well we have more fans today. [laughs] We didn’t have many back then. Not at all.
How do people respond to your live shows differently now?
Well when we started out we were doing something that was pretty confrontational to a lot of people. So we didn’t really have a good time with that by and large, you know? But I steadfastly stood by what I thought was right. There wasn’t a lot of bands doing what we were doing, in fact, there was none! We were charging through a lot of uncharted territory. And I never had a problem with that. It was okay. But you have to have a stiff upper lip as they say. You’re not going to make a lot of friends doing that. So we did a big tour in 1986 and we had one seven-inch out that was a miserable failure and we played to a lot of people who wanted to kill us and had no interest in our long-haired shit, you know? And we lost a lot of money that we didn’t have on that tour. And vowed to never tour again. And we didn’t tour again until we put out the Ozma record in 1989 and it was proven to us that we could go out on the road without losing our ass. And we never looked back from that.
I quit my regular job in ’88 and haven’t had one since. I consider that a massive success. Doesn’t mean I’ve had a lot of money, but I haven’t had another job. I have nothing to complain about. It’s all good. Life is beautiful, the streets are paved with gold. I really believe that. But I also have zero faith in human nature. None. How do you know when people are lying to you? When they’re talking? [laughs] By and large, I don’t believe anyone. I just go, “Yeah, uh-huh.” There aren’t five people in the world that I’d trust with money at all. None. Never been my experience.
Definitely can’t blame you there.
Yeah. No one is. And I don’t have a problem with that.
There are so many bands from the early ’90s that broke up and either got back together later or didn’t. Was there ever a time when you thought The Melvins were going to break up forever?
Well, what happened was, especially in situations where we were dealing with bass players we didn’t like or something like that, we’d get to a situation where I would start saying, “I don’t want to do this.” But it was like, no, I just don’t want to do it with these guys. Not that I don’t want to do it. This guy’s the problem. And we’d move on. And I was never wrong about that, thankfully. [laughs] I’ve never been wrong about any decision along those lines that I’ve ever made.
Well the cool thing is, with a lot of bands, if lineups change or whatever, a lot of people say, “Oh, it’s not the same band anymore,” but that’s never happened with you guys. As long as you’re still in the band, it’s always going to be The Melvins.
Well, we’ve been around for a long time. As they say, ugly buildings and prostitutes always get respect as they get older. [laughs] Might have something to do with that. Plus, what I’ve found to be interesting is that a lot of people now who are middle-aged maybe heard us as teenagers. They have a different attitude about us than a lot of other people do. They view us differently. They like it. It’s a little different. I like that aspect of it, too. I’m happy to go along with it.
Here’s a random question: I recently met Brant Bjork and he told me that he felt like the grunge scene in Seattle and the Palm Desert scene of the ’90s were a lot more similar than people say. He thought that had a lot to do with the fact that Black Flag was one of the only bands that was willing to come out to the desert and therefore was a huge influence on them as well. What do you think about the similarity between the two genres?
Well we started a lot earlier than those bands did. So I don’t know. It’s hard for me to really imagine what was going through their minds. So I have no idea. I mean, there wasn’t a lot of support in Seattle or anything along those lines at the time. Bands like us and Soundgarden and Green River could advertise for a month and do a show together to maybe 50 people. I don’t really have a lot of, “Yeah, it was great in the good ol’ days.” I’m not really a “good ol’ days” kind of person. Not at all. But maybe he’s right. I’ll take his word for it. I’ve never felt a lot of camaraderie with any bands. Not at all. I’ve never felt like we were brother bands with anybody. I never felt part of that Seattle “scene” or whatever it was. Or OB-scene! However you want to look at it.
Do you think if the Internet had existed in the early ’90s maybe the scenes wouldn’t have been so isolated and maybe those styles of music would have popped up in other places?
I doubt it. Really, in all honesty, there’s just not a whole lot of bands who are really good. It doesn’t really matter where they are. If you look at all the Seattle bands, I wish I could say, “Yeah, all those bands are great!” I don’t think that. Not at all. Most of those bands I look at and say, “If people think that’s what we sound like, they’re crazy.” I don’t look at it from that perspective at all.
Is that how you feel about Nirvana?
Like I said, I think Nirvana is a more poppy, bastardized version of what we’re doing. We’re much more abrasive than they are. Always were. It’s nothing new.
And Kurt used to come to your shows when he was really young, right?
Yeah, we grew up together. And it’s a story of total tragedy. There is nothing good about any of it. I’ve said this before, too: If fame hastened his death, then it was the worst thing that could have happened to him.
Do you think it’s weird that people have sort of romanticized it?
Well I guess that always happens. I don’t have any kind of romance. I don’t look at it that way. He was surrounded by people who were horrendous. From managers to his wife to other junkie people who were creeping around, there is nothing good about any of it. I’ve said this openly. Nobody seems to understand any of it. I’m not about to re-write history, you know? That’s not how I see it. And I was there. So I certainly don’t see it that way. If plenty of other people do, so be it.
Well it seems like people should listen to people like you because you obviously know better.
Yeah, you’d like to think, I’ve had journalists think that I was insane for saying things along those lines. What can I do? Nothing. What will I do? Nothing. I will just continue to work and that will be the end of it.
Well it’s silly because as journalists, it’s our job to listen to what you say and write it down. It’s not our job to tell you what’s right and what’s wrong.
You’d like to think that’s how it was. Unfortunately that’s just generally not the case. It’s never been my experience that that was the case. Never.
Oh man, that sucks. I’m sorry.
Generally my experience with journalists has been that they know better and more about music than I do. So at that point you just can’t win.
That’s just the most ridiculous thing.
Yeah, and I’m not the one who’s going to try to educate them about that stuff so I just leave it at that. Oh well! Or, and I’ve said this before, too: They always say, “Yeah, but…” “Yeah, but…” is the mating call of the asshole. “Yeah, but…” You’re a fucking dick. I don’t want to hear it.
You’re absolutely right. In fact, that’s one of the greatest quotes on the matter that I’ve ever heard, so thanks for that.
I don’t want to hear any of those sentences. I don’t want to hear constructive criticism about any aspect of what I do. All that does is piss me off. I don’t want to hear the end of any “yeah, but…” sentence. Unless it’s “Yeah, but here’s something extra.” “Yeah, but I forgot to say that you’re great.” I don’t want to hear anybody say what they don’t like about what I’m doing. I don’t fucking care.
Well like you said, you know that you have great taste and that’s carried you throughout lots of success in your career, so it doesn’t make sense for people to tell you what doesn’t work.
You’d like to think. But like I said, “Yeah, but…” is the mating call of the asshole. I hate it. Especially people telling me what they didn’t like. I’d say by and large people are very positive and nice, in my experience. But in the few times that that’s the case, I have little or no time for that sort of thing. I’m certainly not going to stand there and listen to it. “I didn’t like this record, I didn’t like that record.” I don’t give a shit what you like! I really don’t care. Don’t buy our records! Fine with me. There’s lots of bands out there who are willing to do what you like.
When journalists do stuff like that, especially to your face, it’s not fair to the rest of us. It makes us look bad.
My favorite journalists are people like Hunter S. Thompson. He was a great journalist because he just made stuff up. It’s usually better, you know? Or Charles Bukowski would have been a great journalist. He would have been amazing! I would have read his shit for sure. I think Hunter S. Thompson said that the greatest journalism was always fiction, anyway. It’s true! Especially when it comes to rock people. I don’t really care what they think. Usually they’re pretty boring people.
Yeah, sometimes it’s better to paint a picture of a “rock god” than the boring life of a dude who gets out of bed every day and does his thing, or whatever. So you’re right. In cases like that, fiction definitely wins.
Usually the alternative bands end up doing something that’s exactly the same as everybody else. If you look at Nirvana, they sold millions of records, right? Well, they were involved in the same shit as everybody else! They might as well have been Mötley Crüe! Divorce, big management, drug addition, big tours, big records—what’s the difference? I don’t see any difference. They were shooting the same drugs and screwing the same groupies. Fine with me, but it certainly isn’t different. [laughs] Musically it was different, but it wasn’t a whole lot different attitude-wise.
What type of music will be popular in 10 years?
Oh, the music industry is changing so much, it’s difficult to say. Something a little more human. I’m focusing on things that are more human and less something that you can download. And I’m all for the internet, I think it’s great. I’m all for change. I’m all for availability of the exchange of information. It’s amazing. Better than ever.
Do you think that in the face of all of the technology we have now, the response is to go back to analog and make music that’s more human?
No, I think that whole argument is ridiculous, personally. I couldn’t give a shit how people listen to my music. I don’t care. I don’t want to get caught up in some analog versus digital argument because, look, there is so much shitty music that was recorded totally analog. [laughs] That didn’t save lots of stuff. That didn’t save any of that. It’s just a way of doing something. That’s it. Records are the worst-recorded medium you can get. If you talk to a mastering engineer who knows his shit, he’ll tell you that’s the worst-sounding thing you can have. CDs are the best sound-quality you can get. So if you’re into sound-quality, you’ll buy a CD. If you’re into some other argument about digital versus analog, I just don’t even listen to it. I don’t care—I’m just happy people are listening to it at all! If some kid in South Africa can listen to my thing on mp3, so be it. Great. How can I argue?
It is pretty magical.
Yeah! I’m glad he’s sharing it! Or she! Thank god. That wasn’t possible before this. It’s a miracle. But having said that, I want to offer things that are more human, like special packaging, or limited-edition vinyl or CDs or letter-press or playing lots live and concentrating on things you can’t download and try to get it out there as much as possible. There’s really not much more you can do. The music industry as we know it is over. Good! Move forward. Onward and upward or die like the dinosaur. Make more room for the rest of us.
I think that’s one of the best attitudes about this that I’ve ever heard.
[laughs] Good, I’m glad. Thank you! Like I said, I’ve never been a “good ol’ days” type of person. I hate that shit. I remember the good ol’ days and I didn’t have such a great time then. I didn’t have that experience. “Everything was so much better back then.” Yeah, well, unfortunately we’re not back then. And if that’s what you think then you’ve already defeated yourself. So forget that! I couldn’t care less. What you done lately? Nothing! [laughs]
Yeah, all you can do is embrace it. I do feel like we’re in a pretty magical time in the music industry as far as the attitudes of the people creating the changes.
Well like I said, there is going to be this backlash. Once there’s no profit to be made, they’re not going to invest money in it. When there’s no money to be made in it, that will echo in ways we haven’t quite thought of yet. I’m sure! Investing in music has always worked in the past for big companies. So we’ll see. I’m not going to worry about it. I’m just going to do what I know works and try to expand on all of that. Play small ball, you know? The day is coming where there won’t be any record stores. That’s not necessarily a bad thing.
Yeah, they’ll find new ways of getting it. Whether it’s buying online or downloading it or buying it directly from you at your shows. Or whatever!
Or whatever. It’s my job as the artist to go out and make it happen. Fine with me. I’ll take the challenge.
Watch The Melvins’ hilarious video for “War On Wisdom” below:
Click here to view the embedded video.
The Melvins play the Wonder Ballroom with Honky on Tuesday, August 20. Buy tickets here.
The post Q&A with King Buzzo of The Melvins: “‘Yeah, but…’ is the mating call of the asshole.” appeared first on Oregon Music News.