A Interview with Mooji: Vaster Than Sky, Greater Than Space
Mooji is one of the most inspiring spiritual leaders of our time.
His teachings are based on the ancient Eastern “Advaita Vedanta” tradition of non-duality, which proclaims that everything is but one reality—that we are, in truth, one with this ultimate source that permeates everything, which we call “God”, or pure awareness
Currently living in Portugal at his ashram, Monte Sahaja, Mooji’s entire life is in service to bringing all genuine seekers into the direct experience of truth, which he unwaveringly declares and demonstrates is ever-present.
OM Times Media was fortunate to meet this living master to discuss how to integrate his teachings into the dynamic expression of everyday life.
INTERVIEW OF MOOJI BY NETA MAHARAJ
Neeta Maharaj: Can you explain your teachings in a nutshell, For our readers out there?
Mooji: I prefer to say pointing rather than teachings because pointings are more immediate and direct than teachings. Teaching requires that you learn; pointing simply requires that you observe and follow what is being revealed. It takes no time. The truth is not something we are going to learn or create. At the heart of it, all that I am speaking about is fundamentally simple because it is pointing to a fact of life. Because it is our very nature, it has only to be discovered rather than created, and this is the good news. Discovering is not and should not be strenuous or difficult. It only requires the urge, the desire to know.
I have found this non-dual way particularly beautiful because of the simplicity and directness of it. I am a simple man. I have not studied to any great extent. And the consistent and essential discovery of the great saints and seers, I have come to see and experience myself. I feel joy in my heart to share with those beings who are yearning for this understanding that it is ever-present, and it is not so difficult to find. What have I got to share with them? That your own true Self is what you must long to find and be.
We all naturally know that we exist. No one taught us this simple, yet intuitive knowing “I am, I exist”. The awareness of oneself is the first knowledge—the primal knowing. It is a fundamental fact of life regardless of race or religion or any conditioning we may have experienced. When it first arose inside the human form, it was then, as it is now, pure innocence, shining as the sense of presence. And this simple state, the knowing “I am” is consciousness announcing itself inside each form. The great fall is when this consciousness, which is impersonal, timeless and immutable, identifies with the body—which it needs for experiencing—and then believes the body to be itself. This is the birth of ego and the beginning of suffering. The ‘person’ is consciousness in disguise as time, name and form, a disguise that opens the door to fear because all forms are impermanent and perishable. But consciousness is not. It is this fear of non-existence that compels us to search for the everlasting. This is spirituality or true religion.
The purest question in the search for Truth is the question, “Who am I?” What is it that says ‘I’ inside this body? It is here that an awakened being can help you to quicken your discovery into ultimate self-realization. Rarely do we even come to ask this question, because, over the years, many concepts and unquestioned assumptions are combined to overlay the natural state of being. We first assume that we are the body and the conditioning that arises for, and is experienced inside each body.
For example, if you are born in England, you will be told you are English, and whatever is natural and fashionable within that culture will be absorbed, and it will join other ideas that we like and maintain about ourselves. All these concepts combine to create the sense in us that we are a unique individual called a ‘person’. This is the common human experience, which is assumed to be a universal fact.
Our interactions are shaped by these assumptions: ‘me’ being this unique body-mind unit and ‘you’ being another separate body-mind unit—or in other words, me being this person here, meeting you who are this other person next to me. This conditioning that we are primarily our bodies and personalities gets embedded in the consciousness very early and tends to remain there unquestioned for the rest of our mortal lives.
So why not just leave it alone? Why would anyone challenge you about this and ask, “When you say you are this person, what does it mean?” This is a most unusual question and perhaps also an uncomfortable one within the mindset of the human kingdom, because of the strong assumption that we are the body-mind entity. But because this assumption is a limitation on what we truly are and on our potential as spiritual beings to transcend all phenomenal states, powerful urges arise within some beings to go beyond the scope of our current knowledge or ideas we hold of ourselves. It may start as the urge to explore and experience more of the world in which we live and to search for our place and purpose in it. But in some cases, for some rare beings, that urge grows deeper and vaster as they find themselves questioning the very root of existence.
In this awakening inquiry, some beings discover something much greater than the limited notion of personhood. They find themselves in an effortless state of grace, wisdom, love and joy, which they later come to realise, is the universal field of being. They have discovered that beyond the façade of personhood lies the immensity of being.
Neeta Maharaj: It appears that your teachings point to a dis-identification with the mind and body; however new age philosophers expound the balancing of the heart and the mind to have a joyful life in this three-dimensional reality. Can you share your thoughts on this?
Mooji: I would not encourage anyone to cynically disregard the body or the mind. The body-mind state of being is useful for practical functioning. But when it is being taken as a reference point or fact for what we are, we cut ourselves off from the source and fall into sorrowful and suffering states of being. It is important that we discover that we are consciousness, that we are formless, even though we have the form which we call ‘our body’. If we know ourselves as the consciousness inside the body, then we can live and experience peacefully within the body, for it is our Being that experiences and then reflects its experience through the body. Actually, even though outwardly we seem to strive for material things, the truth is that it is the joy that arises inside the heart that we love to experience. Objects come and go, but that which reveals lasting joy is ever-present, timeless and pure.
Though it sounds noble and intelligent to strike a ‘balance’ between the heart and mind, no one can do it. It cannot be done—it can only be discovered. And the most natural way is to break free from the delusion, ‘I am the body,’ and awaken to the imperishable consciousness we naturally are. A joyful life is the outcome of authentic awakening, which means to know and be one’s Self effortlessly.
Neeta Maharaj: Do human beings have free will?
Mooji: No. In one sense, we have a limited play of free will to move about in daily life and seemingly make choices, but this is not absolute free will. Though we seem to make independent choices, these all unfold within the permissive will of the Supreme. We have the power and the freedom to dream, but you do not have the power to make a dream come true in the way that your mind imagines.
Let’s give an example: suppose I want you to love me but you do not. If I had free will, would it not mean that I would be able to get you to love me even against your will? It would just not work like that. To have the total autonomy and authority to fulfill all our projections we have about life, or act upon our judgements, would create real chaos. Even with our limited sense of free will, we mostly use that badly.
There is a governing principle in the universe—a harmony. It is so broad, so flexible and so beautiful that it even allows for the play of disharmony to manifest, but it will only be a disharmony inside the great harmony. This is not easy for most people to accept.
Neeta Maharaj: So, therefore, the statement, “You create your reality,” is not true?
Mooji: Well, it is also true because even though you may have a fantasy about life, what you believe at a subconscious level is what you are experiencing. You may feel you are a particular type of person, but maybe at the subconscious level you have doubts and fears about it, and this contributes to the life you see in front of you. The surface mind and the underground mind do not always say the same thing.