[14th August 2013 - discharged from the Lung Clinic.]
[Notes from a talk I gave to Taunton Humanists in March about Intermittent Fasting - including all I've learned over the past year.]
[Walking is no longer enough - my extra energy levels since fasting]
[Intermittent Fasting and the Hunger Switch] - why we feel more hunger on non-fasting days.]
How it all started, for me:
I began this eating programme (it's not a diet, it's a way of living - WOL) on the 27th Feb 2012. The story begins at the foot of the post if you want to read about my journey in chronological order. The links to the various research documents I've come across are posted as I found them.
In early August 2012, Dr Michael Mosley presented a BBC Horizon programme on the subject of fasting, including Calorie Restriction (CR) and Intermittent Fasting (IF). This backed up everything I'd discovered about the health benefits of fasting - and I switched from 50% of calories on two days a week to the full-blown 25% of calories (600 calories or less).
The Horizon programme is still available on iPlayer.
It used to be available online on the Lean Gains blog - along with a resume - but the video has been pulled.
leangainsguide
And another source, in case the one above is pulled:
Now, however, Dr Mosley has written a book on the subject, in collaboration with Mimi Spencer, and this will be available from all good bookshops (and some possibly not so good!) from 10th January. All the reviews I've seen so far are extremely favourable. I myself have ordered three copies from my local independent bookstore.
[Saturday 1st December - I'm now trying to include everything I've posted on this subject, on the various forums I use, so that there's a comprehensive record of my progress. So there may be some duplication until I get things sorted properly]
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Thoughts on fasting:
Some of you will know I've been struggling to explain why I (and others) feel more hungry on feed days (very) than on fasting days(not at all).
During our discussions I had an insight into the possible cause of this phenomenon - and it relates to the way our bodies have developed over the millenia:
When we don't eat, our bodies assume there is no food available - famine - and it suppresses the (for want of a better term), 'hunger switch';
When we do eat, our bodies assume there is food available, and goes into hunger mode. So, we eat breakfast, then a short time later, the body says, "This must be a feast day, so I want more food - to store up some reserves against the next famine.
[Most of what follows is a selection of my posts on the 5:2 threads on Mumsnet - as can be seen, this is very much a work in progress!]
Maintaining as I am, there's not a lot new going on - but thought this week's fasting may be of interest:
Tue 19-Feb-13
Strange couple of days for me - best laid plans, and all that!
I began my normal fast yesterday, but then friends of mine decided to take advantage of this glorious weather and invited me to accompany them on a walk over the Quantocks. Funnily enough, we'd only been going about three hours when we came across a pub - just happened to be about lunchtime! [grin]
I was still going to carry on fasting - right up until I realised that, not only was I going to have to forgo a pub lunch - but also a pint of beer. At this stage I made a unilateral decision to move my fast day to today. [wise]
For lunch I had a large plate of chips, beans and mushrooms in the pub - plus the pint, and very nice it was too! Came home and got stuck into some spicy almond biscuits left over from Xmas. 6 or 7 of these later, I wrapped up the packet and threw it on top of the kitchen cupboard! [phew]
Later, for dinner, I had the bubble and squeak leftover from yesterday's roast dinner, plus broccoli, a stuffed mushroom and a serving of veg curry.
In the evening I made a vegan parkin (wheat free) - so I had to taste that.
Today, Tuesday, is normally a feed day, so I had breakfast - and then realised that, since I was going away with my son that night, I could fast today and do my first ever overnight fast. And, since my breakfast was only around 200 cals, I'd be well under the 600 cal mark.
In the car with my son, he was telling me how he knew I was fasting, but he really wanted to take me out for a curry. He'd found this terrific Indian restaurant, and he would like to treat me. Well, living 3 hours apart, as we do, these events weren't as common as I would like, so, --out of a sense of filial duty,-- once again, I allowed pragmatism to rule, and we had the curry - plus the obligatory lager! [grin]
I'd brought the parkin with me - I'd made it for my son who has a slight problem with wheat - so we had a couple of slices of that on our return, with a mug of coffee.
So now I'm fasting again, and I won't eat until 6.30-7.00 tomorrow.
Tue 18-Dec-12 20:38:02
Here are some thoughts about fasting and weight loss that are of interest - especially the bit about the harmful effects of fizzy drinks:
www.fastingconnection.com/forum/Fasting-for-slimming-Are-there-any-dangers/11375-theories-of-obesity-is-fasting-always-the-answer
There are a couple of useful links on the thread as well.
Sun 16-Dec-12
I don't need to lose any more weight - I'm down to 9.3 now, from 10.10 when I started. I tried 6:1, but I didn't like it - I found I missed fasting for the two days every week. So I'm doing a modified version of 5:2, in that I fast for 24 hours twice a week - on one of those days I finish up with a 600 meal, but on the other I have a full, non-calorie counted meal.
I also try and eat bigger meals on my feeding days - I'm thinking of ditching the side plates and going back to a dinner plate.
Thu 13-Dec-12 12:22:36
The webpage of the Horizon programme, Eat, Fast and Live Longer, is still on iPlayer.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc
There are a couple of clips from the programme on there, but clicking on 'See all the buzz about this programme' takes you to a number of different blogs and forums about IF.
There's a wealth of info on there - well worth a browse.
(Also posted on the Mumsnet Links thread)
12-Dec-12 17:51:10
Here are two encouraging posts from over on the Wildfood site diet thread:
"...as you know I am also a diabetic and have been for a number of years, at the beginning of the year my sugar levels and triglycerine were all over the place (doctor said well either you do something about it or as sure as damn it will do something about you) so I bought a bike and started reducing my food and cutting out fats to a great extent, it brought me back from the brink, but then I was put onto the 5:2 way of eating, went from having a BMI of over 30 to now being 26, my sugar is stable and normal and my trigycerine levels are back (almost) to normal, after the festive period I shall be coming off the Statins, I feel heathier have lost my gut and am getting into clothes that I was wearing 10 years ago. It does take will power but once you get into the routine, I don't find it at all hard and am now doing the 24 hour zero Kcals 2 days a week with no problems, no side effects and feel great."
And:
"This 5:2 diet does bring down everything that isn't supposed to be high, it has for me, resulting in reduction in doses of drugs. After all said and done about the wonderful modern drugs, they do tend to have side effects, in my case more so for some unknown reason. So I am happy not only at my weight reduction, just around one stone, but also because my blood parameters are getting better. I have reduced doses of all my medicines.
One more thing; I went to a funeral today and wore my 'posh' black trousers. They kept sliding off all morning, had to keep pulling them up !!! I will have to and get some more!"
All good stuff, eh?
Wed 05-Dec-12 15:07:21
I'm 19 hours into a 24 hour water-only fast, ATM. I don't feel any hunger, and I'm not always thinking about food...
But I find myself constantly clock-watching and counting off the hours until I can eat. I start off thinking, "24 to go", then I think, a couple of hours later, "2 gone, 22 to go". By the time I retired for the night it was, "7 gone, 17 to go".
By 10 this morning it was, "15 gone, only 9 to go!" And now I'm thinking "20 gone and only 4 to go."
When I'm doing my exercises I convert these figures to percentages. So at one stage whilst exercising I'd done 66% (or 2/3rds) and I only had 33% to go. So I'd done twice as much as I had to do. And I can do this for every figure between 24:0 and 1:23. I might even, at 6.30 tonight, tell myself I've completed 47 48ths of my self-imposed task! Sad, or what!
Tue 04-Dec-12 12:05:07
You can always throw in the odd day of missing breakfast, or breakfast and lunch, for that matter.
I often think, when going without breakfast if I've over-indulged the night before, that I'd had my breakfast last night, iyswim!
Mon 03-Dec-12 14:23:43
TGIB I've found the research you mentioned - or at least a report on it:
"In their paper these researchers discuss a 1957 paper from the Spanish medical literature.
…the subjects were eating, on alternate days, either 900 calories or 2300 calories, averaging 1600, and that body weight was maintained. Thus they consumed either 56% or 144% of daily caloric requirement. The subjects were in a residence for old people, and all were in perfect health and over 65. Over three years, there were 6 deaths among 60 study subjects and 13 deaths among 60 ad lib-fed controls, non-significant difference. Study subjects were in hospital 123 days, controls 219, highly significant difference. We believe widespread use of this pattern of eating could impact influenza epidemics and other communicable diseases by improving resistance to infection. In addition to the health effects, this pattern of eating has proven to be a good method of weight control, and we are continuing to study the process in conjunction with the NIH."
I came across it in this very interesting blog:
www.proteinpower.com/drmike/intermittent-fasting/fast-way-to-better-health/
Mind you, he does have a couple of books to sell!
Thegirlinbrighton Mon 03-Dec-12 08:43:25
BreadandWine, 75? Nah, spring chicken!
The study was the Vallejo study, there was quite a bit about it in the James Johnson book, which I just searched through for you. There's a summary online saying: To our knowledge there is only one study that was designed to test the effects of CR without malnutrition in non-obese humans [11]. This was a study of alternate day feeding in 120 men whereby the 60 participants in the CR group received an average of 1500 kcal per day for 3 years whereas the 60 others were ad libitum. This amounted to approximately 35% CR compared to the control group. While the initial report was brief, post-hoc analyses conducted several years later [12] indicated that death rate tended to be lowered in the CR group and hospital admissions were reduced in these individuals by approximately 50% (123 days for CR vs. 219 days for Control).
In Johnson's book (which is good on the science but personally I don't like as it recommends Slimfast style shakes for the first two weeks on IF which would have been an absolute no-no for me from the start), he said the best results were in heart disease and failure, with three times as many cases reported on the control group as in the ICR group. There was also a lower rate of lung disease, though cancer wasn't affected - but that may be because cancer could have been present in the subjects beforehand.
It wouldn't be ethically possible to do it as Vallejo did, I think, but apparently it wasn't noticed for years due to translation issues! I also wonder if it's something that might come quite naturally to many care home residents as I know losing appetite is something that can affect you as you're older - a day off eating much might then convert to the next day with increased appetite. Plus my parents' generation were used to going hungry some of the time, as war babies - though then again a fear of hunger might be even more ingrained in them from the times when they didn't have a choice.
TheCyclistist Sat 01-Dec-12 00:26:04
Evening all.
Well as I said earlier got the blood test results back this afternoon and I'm sad enough to sit down and share them with the greater research project that is this Thread approaching the midnight hour.
A bit of background first. Up till two years ago I basically had a quite an issue with alcohol, namely a bottle of a half of Merlot in front of the Telly after work every day of the week. This had no real effect on my health until about 3 or 4 years ago when basically that and my increasing weight led to me starting to fall apart physically (no need to go into too many details). Anyway the docs start sending me for blood tests every 6 months or so to see how the 'markers' in my blood were doing.
Initially although my cholesterol was always fairly good, never really above 5.2, most of the other markers weren't great. My liver enzyme test coming out at about 130 when the upper limit should be 40.
I stopped drinking 2 years ago but put on a little more weight till a year ago I was 18 stone (but naturally big boned :) ). Although I hadn't drunk for a year the Liver enzyme test was still in the 60's this January. I lost a few stone between last November and early July when I had my last test and the Liver enyme test had dropped to 46, nearly the upper range of healthy.
So below are the results from July a couple of weeks before I started this WOE, initially 4:3 then more recently 5:2. As it said in the programme I have had 600 cals on Fasting days and eaten anything on none fasting days including chocolate, pizza, curry, crisps and anything up to 3,500 cals although my TDEE is around 3,300 because of my build, sex and activity levels. I keep my protein levels down, I'm not a great meat eater but do eat meat, I have no concerns at all whether something has carbohydrates in it but avoid most of the time very high GI foods but not all of the time. I eat a diet high in oats, fibre and veg as well as other 'less wholesome' foods and the only supplements I take are ALIMAX garlic tablets and Boots own label Omega 3 supplement.
The first column was the score in the July blood test the second the score now and the 3rd the recommended normal range. The results on the whole are pretty amazing.......
Cholesterol overall 4.1 / 3.4 / 3.0-5.0
HDL good Cholesterol 1.35 / 1.5 / 1.0-3.5
LDL bad cholesterol 2.3 / 1.6 / 1.0-3.00
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A very good cholesterol reading and a huge improvement in the good to bad cholesterol ratio, especially considering my unrestricted diet on feed days
Trig levels .88 / .71 / 0.5-2.3
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Although Triglyceride levels were good in July they were over 15% better a few months later, this is also a sign of a liver working healthily
Liver Function Tests
:
ALT/SGPT Serum 46 / 30 / 0.00-40.00
Serum Protein level 71 / 69 / 60-80
Serum albumin 44 / 45 / 35-50
Serum globulin 27 / 24 / 18-36
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All markers basically going in the right direction with the main marker being within the healthy range for the first time in a decade
Kidney Function
Serum urea level 5.4 / 3.9 / 2.5-7.8
Serum creatine level 93 / 87 / 74-110
Serum Potasium 4.3 / 4.1 / 3.5-5.3
All fairly healthy with slight improvements. The drop in the urea marker probably down to my low protein diet showing up
Fasting Blood Glucose Level
4.5 / 4.7 / 3.5-6.0
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Up slightly and I think it was in July from the previous one so will watch this.
Serum TSH Thyroid function / 1.67 / .35-5.5
This wasn't done last time
I post these results because people have asked to see whether this WOE has health benefits as well as weight loss benefits so I hope they don't look like I'm saying 'look at me aren't I great'.
So overall in a matter of 4 months this WOE has has marked positive effects on some major body functions. Of course there may be other areas not tested that are going in the wrong direction only time and more evidence from others will tell.
However all I can say is I feel better than I did 4 months ago, my Liver and Kidneys are working better and my cholesterol levels are markedly improved despite me eating basically anything I wanted...be it every other day.
It made the curry tonight taste all the sweeter....washed down by a cool pepsi with loads of ice of course :).
virginposter Fri 30-Nov-12 16:08:58
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2240003/Its-hell-feast-famine-diet-help-drop-dress-size--live-longer.html
Has anyone else seen this? Always a bit loathe to read Daily Mail stuff but this one is ok. She has an IGF-1 test before her month of 5:2 and then again at the end and it has dropped significantly. Have a look you guys.
Thu 29-Nov-12 12:20:12
Some lovely stories on here this morning! Keep 'em coming folks!
70lbs, Cyclist! Well done, mate! Bet your bike appreciates it!
I've managed 2 24 hour fasts this week - one of them with just three mugs of water instead of coffee. It's all about timing the evening meals - have an early dinner on the day before a fast, then a later one on the fast day itself.
Have still to feel hunger on these days - and I have to report I feel great. In fact, I have more energy on these days than on the days I eat.
I'm coming more and more to feel that fasting is the natural state - and food is just a necessary interruption.
Here's someone - a weightlifter - blogging about his fasting experiences and the merits of 16 hours versus 24 fasting:
www.newjohn.wordpress.com/2011/05/10/day-130/
Mon 26-Nov-12 15:45:32
I'm also feeling a bit sorry for myself - but in a good way!
I've been asked to make some Healthy fruit and oat bars with a year 4 group at the local primary school where I have a weekly Family Learning breadmaking session.
So I've had to convert them into cup/mug measurements and bake a batch, just so I know what I'm doing.
So now the flat bread(?) biscuit(?) is cooling and the kitchen smells gorgeous. However, I'm currently 20.5 hours into a fast - aiming for a less than 600 calorie dinner at 7 tonight - so I won't be able to sample said healthy bars until after that.
I'm also cooling 500g (dried weight) of kidney beans, cooked and drained, waiting to go in the freezer. I generally love to munch on these while they're hanging about the kitchen.
I'm back to drinking coffee on my fast days, after proving I can do them just drinking water, last week. I'm alternating black coffee and hot water - and feeling smug about the savings! [smuggitsmiley]
Drinking coffee without sugar, as I do, seems to make the water taste surprisingly sweet. Anyone else notice this?
I'm still very surprised about the level of control I have when I'm fasting! Unlike over the weekend when I was eating loads of spiced almond biscuits (vegan, from Lidl - thoroughly recommended) with a piece of chocolate covered marzipan with every bite!
These Monday fast days play havoc with my leftover routine. We've always got loads of leftovers from the Sunday roast (vegan meat pie, in my case) and Mondays was always bubble and squeak day. However, it'll all last until tomorrow and I'll tidy up the fridge then.
Mon 26-Nov-12 01:03:44
"Doing my first 'spread over 2 days' fast day today, had lunch then plan on nothing else until lunch tomorrow, I'm going to see if I prefer it to doing a