Chief Richard Akinjide (SAN) has seen it all in Nigerian politics as a lawyer, legislator and minister. In the First Republic, he was the Minister of Education and served as Attorney-General of the Federation and Minister of Justice in the Second Republic. In this interview with TEMITOPE OGUNBANKE, the member of Board of Trustees (BoT) of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) speaks on the Muhammadu Buhari-led administration, National Assembly leadership, cost of governance and corruption among others. Excerpts:
In an interview with New Telegraph last year, you gave five reasons why General Muhammadu Buhari cannot be President of Nigeria. You raised the issues of cancellation of Lagos metro line, human rights abuses, imprisonment of political officers, electoral advantage and former President, Goodluck Jonathan’s performance. Despite all these reasons, Buhari defeated Jonathan. What went wrong with your permutation?
The last election was free and fair at the presidential level and that was why the sitting president (Jonathan) conceded defeat and accepted that Buhari won. We cannot compare what has just happened with what happened in the past. The last presidential election was accepted by everybody because it was free and fair.
There is no petition; I like that because that would give the government the opportunity to take off and govern the country fairly. I think the last presidential election was accepted by the whole country. So, we should not compare the election with other matter on military rule. This is totally different.
You are one of those who expressed confidence that Jonathan would be re-elected on the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) but he lost. Why did PDP perform abysmally in the elections?
The party is looking into it and until the report is ready and I read it, I won’t make any comment on it yet.
What does Buhari’s return to power portend?
It signifies to me democracy, particularly when the immediate President even conceded to him. That is what happened in France, Germany, Britain and America. It is normal. It has happened before and it is happening again. Buhari is democratically elected and I believe he is now a democrat because he cannot rule without the National Assembly. He cannot rule without the rule of law and the judiciary. So, we have the three arms of government firmly in control.
Now that President Buhari is at the helm of affairs for over two weeks, how would you assess his government?
Two weeks is too early to make any judgement because there is very little he could have done in two weeks. Although in other countries like United States and in Europe, once you go into government, you start off immediately without delay. In England, once the Prime Minister takes oath of office, within 24 hours he will announce his ministers straight away.
And in America, the president doesn’t waste time in appointing his cabinet members. I don’t know why there is delay in the composition of his cabinet and I will not make a judgement for our president; he must have his reasons why there is delay. I don’t know why the president is yet to name his cabinet and I don’t want to make a judgement for him. Before I can make a judgement on that, I will wait for another three or four weeks. If he doesn’t do it, then we can speak out. But for two weeks, I think we should be patient. So, let us give him some time more.
Would the delay in cabinet composition slow down government?
When I talked of England, they have a settled system, which they have been running for centuries. America also has a settled system ditto Germany, Norway and even India. So, we are still young. There was a time we have many military coups and military rulers. We are just growing up and I hope that what we are doing now will take a very solid base. Don’t let us be angry; let us be patient.
As an experienced politician and former minister, what are the qualities President Buhari should consider in choosing member of his cabinet?
One, he should look for brilliant people; that is very critical. Don’t put a third or fourth Eleven to do the work of a first Eleven. He must pick the best brains. If he picks poor people with poor brains; he will not work well. Our national interest should also be critical in the choice of the cabinet members. I agree that he should also look at geographical spread but that geographical spread must be subjected to ability to perform. He should pick the best; who could be politicians or technocrats and we have them in all spheres.
Would you advise the president to put ethnicity and zoning into consideration…
He should not introduce that into it. What should be critical is national interest. Once that is fulfilled and he finds quality people with good character; he should go ahead and name his cabinet members.
As a former federal lawmaker, what is your take on the process through which the leadership of the National Assembly emerged on June 9 and the controversy surrounding the election of the leaders of the two chambers?
The election of the leaders of the National Assembly was well done. People don’t understand that there is a difference between political parties and the National Assembly. The National Assembly is a very sacred institution and what the lawmakers did is in accordance with the constitution and the rules of the National Assembly.
Those who were elected were elected legally and I congratulate them. The emergence of the President of the Senate and Deputy Senate President was a good balance. The Senate President, Bukola Saraki, comes from one political party and his deputy, Ike Ekweremadu, from another political party. I think that shows maturity. I like that and I support it. People should stop making noise in the newspapers as if we are fighting a war. What they have done is good and I support it.
So, you believe that the emergence of Ekweremadu despite being in opposition party is commendable?
It doesn’t matter. It is not the opposition party that elected him; it is members of the National Assembly who elected him and other leaders of the National Assembly. That is the way people should look at it. Once you are elected, you are in governance and you must think of the whole country. The Senate President is for the whole of Nigeria, not for his own political party. And his deputy is also for the whole of Nigeria, not for any political party.
Don’t you think PDP has gained from the process?
No, it is not the PDP that has gained; it is democracy that has gained. The Senate President and his deputy are for the whole country; we should not mix that with politics or party politics. That is where people are wrong.
So, the emergence of Ekweremadu as Deputy Senate President will not add any value to the PDP?
You don’t get that office to help your party; you get that office to help national interest. When you are Senate President, you are Senate President for the whole country, not for a political party. In fact, when you are presidentof Nigeria, you are president for the whole country and not for your political party. That is the mistake many people made out of ignorance. When somebody is elected, he should not think about his party; he should think about national interest.
Looking at the outcome of the election of Speaker of the House of Representatives, this is the second time the South-West will lose the position. Mulikat Adeola-Akande lost the position to Aminu Tambuwal in 2011 and in 2015, Femi Gbajabiamila lost the speakership to Yakubu Dogora. What is your take on the development?
I support what has happened. The lawmakers were elected to represent the country and the National Assembly. Don’t compare what happened last time with what is happening now. Once they are elected, they should serve the country and the National Assembly and that is exactly what has happened.
How do you see the internal crisis rocking the ruling party, the APC, over the outcome of the leadership contest in the National Assembly?
It is because they cannot separate politics from the National Assembly. The moment you are in the National Assembly, you are representing the whole country. If you are a senator from Ibadan, you should think of Sokoto, Warri, Enugu and Kano. Don’t be monolithic or think of your area alone; you must think of Nigeria as a whole.
So, what would be you advice to APC leaders?
They should accept what has happened and support the Senate President and all those who were elected. That is democratic norm and they should accept it and live by it.
Don’t you foresee the power tussle in the National Assembly affecting the executive and legislative relationship?
It will not when you do things in accordance with the rules of the House and the constitution. When Alhaji Shehu Shagari was president in the Second Republic, Nigerian Peoples Party (NPP) and National Party of Nigeria (NPN) formed coalition and two of them were in government and things went very well.
So, what happened in the National Assembly is not unique. Also in London, before the last election, the Conservatives and Liberal, which were different political parties, were in the cabinet. So, such things are not unusual. In America, when a president is elected, he doesn’t form his cabinet through his political party alone. He usually takes ministers from other political parties. We should grow up and be mature. People should stop talking without maturity and experience.
At present all the heads of the judiciary, executive and legislature are northerners. How do you see the development?
Let us wait and see maybe it is mere coincidence and if the people who occupied those positions are there on merit and they have the ability to occupy the offices, I don’t see reason why anybody should complain. I have no problem with that now. I hope the situation does not affect federal character. I hope those people who did it are very learned in the Electoral Act and constitution, and they must have good reasons why they did what they did.
At present, many states in the country are faced with debt burden to the extent that they cannot pay salaries. How do you see the matter?
We should check how people run government and spend public funds. I saw some local governments buying wigs for their speakers and councillors. That is nonsense and waste of money because they don’t need such thing at that level. Government needs money for hospitals, schools and things that will make people happy.
Considering the state of economy of Nigeria, would you support reduction in cost of governance?
I am in total support of reduction in cost of governance. Cost of running government; not just last government but previous governments have been too expensive. The legislators and executives should serve the country. Those who want money should go into business and not politics.
Those who go into politics because of money are unpatriotic. When I was elected into the House of Representatives in the 50s, our salary was £800 annually and we didn’t complain; we liked it and enjoyed it. When you are in parliament or cabinet, you are there to serve and not to make money. So, I support reduction in the various arms of government.
In what areas should government reduce cost of governance?
In all areas. We should spend money on development. Over a year ago, I was in South Africa and I was amased at the level of development in the country. It was great and we are better financially than South Africa. I think we should emulate Australia, Canada, United States and Europe in governance by putting the interest of our people first. At the moment, I don’t like the level of unemployment in Nigeria; it is too high.
How do you think President Buhari can tackle unemployment and other problems facing the country?
He should look at the cost of governance in the country; look at the money we have and abolish unemployment completely. The price of oil at international market has crashed by 50 per cent. In the olden days, the price of oil was much cheaper and governance was very good.
We should not rely on oil alone; agriculture and industry are very critical. It is absurd that we have enormous vehicles in the country and we don’t have factories making tyres. That makes our shame very glaring. We should abolish importation of tyres and be producing our own tyres in this country. It is also ab-importing petrol when we are the sixth largest producer of oil in the world.
It doesn’t make sense. In fact, we should be exporting crude and refined oil. We need several refineries in Nigeria. I don’t see why there should not be a refinery in the South-West with the number of vehicles in the region. We need money for a lot of things like roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, and telephone services.
Many governors in their quest to prune down cost of governance have cut salaries and reduced number of ministries…
It is very good. First of all, a governor doesn’t need many commissioners running a state. It is absurd. You don’t need to pay commissioners too much money and give them houses; let them live in their own houses and go to work from there. The vehicles for government officials should also be reduced. I believe that will reduce cost of governance a lot. When I was in government all I had was two cars for myself and one car for my assistant, who was assisting me. We don’t need luxury to run government.
But many people believe that what usually inflate government expenditure are not salaries but frivolous allowances like security votes and others…
Those are criminals; it should be abolished. Where is the security problem? I don’t see the need for security votes at all.
Are you saying security votes should be abolished?
Of course, what security are the governors looking after? Every governor should tell me what security he is spending money on when he gets huge amount of money for security votes. It is rubbish and it is one of the ways governors abuse their offices. We don’t know what they spend the money on because they don’t account for it.
How best do you think the issue of corruption can be tackled?
If there are cases of corruption, those who are corrupt should be arrested. I don’t want people shouting on television or radio or in newspapers about corruption. Where are the people who are corrupt? Let us know them. The laws are there and we should do the right thing. President Buhari has said he will not allow corruption in his government and I have reasons to believe that he won’t allow corruption.
Do you think the anti-graft agencies are doing enough in the war against corruption?
I don’t know the way they operate. The issue of corruption is unthinkable in America and Europe. We should follow that system and make sure that we are corruptionfree.
In the last few days, many exgovernors have been guests of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) over corruptionrelated issues…
Under the constitution, when they were in office, they cannot be prosecuted. So, when they leave office they can be made to account and that is good for the country; it is good for the economy.
You were a member of the 2014 National Conference. Do you think the president should implement the confab report?
The report of the National Conference has been approved. In fact, I moved the final vote of thanks at the conference. The report of the conference was passed unanimously and I don’t see the need for anybody to be opposed to the report of the conference. I like to indulge in the belief that this government will implement that sacred document.
How confident are you about the implementation, considering that the ruling party kicked against the convocation of the conference?
I believe that the report of the conference will be implemented. Let us wait and see. Don’t let us condemn anybody now. Jonathan can’t do anything on the report because there was no time. There was nothing he ought to do that he has not done. If he has returned to power, the implementation won’t be an issue.
How do you see the breaking of second term jinx by Governor Abiola Ajimobi of Oyo State?
I don’t know who says no governor has ever got a second term in Oyo State. I don’t accept that statement all the time. Ladoke Akintola was elected and he came back second time. That is a fact. So, I don’t know where people get their arithmetic to say no governor has governed Oyo State for two terms. The belief that nobody has ever broken second term jinx in Oyo State is wrong.
If three predecessors of Governor Ajimobi; Lam Adesina, Rashidi Ladoja and Adebayo Alao-Akala, could not break the second term jinx, how did Ajimobi break the jinx?
There is election petition in court. Let us see the result of that election petition first. I will not make any advance verdict on the last election until we finish all election petitions.
The defeat of the PDP in the last general elections has forced many politicians like you into retirement…
There is no retirement in politics. I joined politics in my 20s and I am still in politics and I will continue to be in politics. I love it and I think everybody who like the rule of law and democracy should be in politics. My children are in politics and I will like my grandchildren to be in politics. I am not leaving politics; I will be in politics for as long as possible.
So, you are not affected by the PDP loss?
Not at all.
Do you see the PDP bouncing back before 2019?
Why not; we will come back. That is democracy. If you win, you can lose and if you lose, you can win. In America, we have seen Republicans winning and Democrats losing and sometime Democrats winning and Republicans winning. The same thing in Britain; you see the Labour Party winning and Conservative Party losing and vice versa. Democracy means some would be in, some would be out. You can’t be in forever and you can’t be out forever.
But this is the first time in 16 years that PDP will lose at the federal level.
There is nothing wrong in that. That is good for democracy and they might come back again.
What advice do you have for President Buhari, expecially on expectations from Nigerians?
He must be a president for the whole country, not for his political party because he is president of Nigeria. Secondly, he should obey the rule of law; that is very critical. Three, he should be there when he thinks he can be in government and leave when he thinks he cannot be in government. I respect him and I know he will obey the rule of law. I think he is a sensible person. Being elected, not a dictator, he will obey the rule of law.
Do you have confidence in Buhari to bring about the change many Nigerians are yearning for?
That is our indulgence. Let us wait until it happens.
What do you make of the issues about Buhari’s age and performance raised in the media last week?
That was a very honest statement and anybody who expect too much from him would be disappointed. You enjoyed such offices when you are in your 40s, 50s. But when you get to a certain age, the tension is so much that it might affect your productivity and the quality of your performance.