I wanted to talk about that moment when you run digital marketing campaigns for your company and you start to think things aren’t working. I think we’ve all been there. This is my take on how to get a handle on it, where to go and what to do.
Give yourself a treat! Listen to Online Marketing Communications #podcast at http://t.co/5LAohdThhU
— Jon Buscall (@jonbuscall) November 17, 2014
Transcript
[0:01] [intro music]
Jon Buscall: [0:07] Hello, it’s Jon Buscall here from JontusMedia.com and Stockholm, Sweden. Thanks very much for coming on to listen to this show. This week, I’m going to be talking about that oh my gosh moment when you’ve been running your business for awhile now, whether your a solo or a small team, and you’ve had your additional marketing in place.
[0:28] You start looking at things and you start thinking, nothing’s working. We’re not getting any leads. Everyone else’s site looks better. Nothing that we’re doing is any good.
[0:40] I’m going to try to give you some encouragement and some tools to cope with that.
[0:45] [music]
Jon: [0:52] For starters, let’s all put our hands on our hearts and step forward and admit, yes, this happens to all of us. If we’re involved in marketing, there will come a day when we go to our computer, our smart phone, et cetera, we start looking at what we’re doing, and suddenly we’ll get gripped by panic.
[1:13] Now, of course, we could run around like headless chickens and make lots of changes and do lots of things, and think that being really active is solving our problem. I actually see this when people start talking to me and showing me what they’ve been doing as a way to try and improve things.
[1:32] Often, they’ll have pulled part of the tower apart, and it’ll all come tumbling down, when really they might have been better stepping back and looking at the whole structure before beginning to play. I hope that the kind of tools, the kind of suggestions that I’m giving you here will enable you to more slowly make changes to give you more an informed position.
[2:02] Now, I’m speaking from this position as a business owner who not just only markets other companies but markets our own company, my own company. This is something that I go through myself.
[2:12] The reason that it’s on my mind this morning as I record this, or actually afternoon as I record this, is that it’s something that we’re going through here at JontusMedia, that we’ve been doing so much client work. Incredibly busy, being successful, which is great.
[2:30] But at the same time, we start to look at what we’re doing ourselves for the company, and the company’s moved on. We’re developing in many other directions. We’ve got a much clearer approach to explaining to leads where we’re at. Because, of course, there can be a disconnect between the kind of people that approach you for work, approach you to work with you, and actually the stage that you’re at.
[2:54] Perhaps we’ve moved on to slightly bigger customers than the site seems to suggest.
[2:59] Of course, that has to become really transparent. I’ve been looking at our own marketing for Jontusmedia marketing and thinking, right, it needs to be changed here, here, and here. I’ve been looking at different ways in which we can improve things.
[3:15] That sort of inspired me to put myself in your position to think about that oh my gosh moment when things aren’t working, when you’re gripped by that. It’s a normal reaction, I think, to have that kind of response.
[3:29] We get bored by things. Sometimes we find problems that aren’t there. For starters, if you feel that nothing’s working, you need to have the data to show to yourself that it’s not working.
[3:42] Have you got an absolute downturn in leads. Have you got a real fall away in terms of traffic to your website, conversion of visitors to your website, less interaction on social media that leads to anything? You’ll know your key performance indicators.
[4:01] You’ll know you’re key performance indicators, but you should go to them and really assess carefully that you have a problem, that you’ve not just woken up and thought, “Nope, I don’t fancy this anymore. It’s not really my thing. I’m not happy and there must be something wrong so let’s all run around like headless chickens and try to fix it.”
[4:21] It could be that you were just bored. Before you attempt to fix it, make sure that it is broken. If you are sure that it’s broken, if you see that something’s not working, if you have got that oh my gosh moment and you’re spot on, where do we start?
[4:39] I think for starters, we start at number one and that’s the top level questions, we step back from everything and we look at our main home base. I suppose that the main focus of this podcast is looking at our own home site, our own websites, because that of course as I try to stress on this show, if you’re a new listener, it’s a running thread through all my marketing communications.
[5:06] That is, that our own website is the home base. That Facebook, Google+, Twitter can go away tomorrow and if we’re relying on them solely for our digital platform, we’re in trouble, so the home base, the website.
[5:24] Those top level questions that we could ask ourselves, is the site doing what we want it to be doing. For example, you might have started out using a website to be a trust builder, a brand builder. You would go out.
[5:44] You would meet people. You would perhaps put adverts online. You would engage in social platforms. When people got to your website, it wasn’t a conversion space, it was more a space just to show that yes, this is a company, a professional company, well branded, with some good services.
[6:03] Perhaps now you’re at the next level, where you’ve got this traffic and you see that every day 500 people come to this website and not one of them takes an action that’s meaningful. Not one of them contacts us about doing some work. It could be that point of disconnect. Is your site out-of-date? Designs and fashions change.
[6:35] I think, online…maybe it’s my stage in life…but my gut-feeling, my intuition is that things change very, very quickly online. There are periods where a certain form of design is in fashion, then that changes and modifies and something else becomes the next fashionable thing.
[7:00] For example, recently, I suppose in the last year, there’s been a real proliferation for websites to fill up the whole screen.
[7:11] As people are using many devices to connect to the Internet, the designers want the whole screen, of course, to be as easily readable on all devices. You’ll see that there’s been this real increase in size.
[7:28] Fonts are bigger everywhere and take up more real estate on the screen. That’s one of the fashions that I see going on.
[7:36] Another one has been that you’ll see these parallax forms. You’ll land on a website and it will have a big image. You’ll click and it will scroll or jump down on the same page.
[7:49] Instead of jumping to a new web page, it makes these major jumps on a page. So there are design trends that change.
[7:56] Of course, there are design trends that change because there is a really important reason, for example, the emergence of responsive designs.
[8:08] I just mentioned the effect of multiple devices, that we are using multiple devices everyday to contact and connect to the Internet. Multiple devices have made it really important that we all have responsive websites, that our website adjusts accordingly and looks great on any device.
[8:29] It can be that your site’s out-of-date like that. Yes, I do come across sites that haven’t been updated to responsive. Goodness me, they look awful on my iPhone 5.
[8:42] It doesn’t just have to be out-of-date in terms of what’s changing in style trends. It can be out of date in terms of what your own business is doing.
[8:51] Some of the things that we’re doing now are slightly different to what we were doing 18 months ago. I think we’re doing more really short, intensive sprints that take 8 to 12 weeks. But we are also doing longer projects, what I would call marathons, where we’re really in it for the duration.
[9:11] We’ve got more longer-term clients than we had before. That needs to be made transparent, because you could say that the website is out-of-date in that sense.
[9:23] Your business might have moved on. You might have started out as a translator. Now you are writing creative content, like a journalist, for example.
[9:36] You might have been a dog-trainer specializing in puppy classes, but now you’ve developed. You’ve got more qualifications. You’re now working at the higher-end of the market, where you are dealing with real behavior consultations.
[9:49] Do you see what I mean? As your business moves on, your website needs to reflect that. If there is a disconnect between what you are offering and what your site says you are offering, of course you’re going to get into problems.
[10:06] For me, the key take-away, with these kinds of top-level questions, is really, “Are you keeping an eye on the relationship between your website and your core business?”
[10:19] There must be no disconnect. It must be up-to-date. It mustn’t look stale. It mustn’t fall by the wayside, otherwise you will wake up one morning, look at your site and realize, “That website does not reflect what I or we, as a company, do any more.”
[10:41] I think this one of the things that we, as marketing providers for businesses, often have to get across to clients is that launching out a spanking-new website, today, in November 2014, does not mean that, in 2016, that site will answer all your questions or will serve all your needs.
[11:06] It’s an on-going, changing process. For me, number two in that “Oh my gosh” moment really comes down to keywords. What do I mean by keywords?
[11:22] By keywords I mean the things that people go online to ask Google to solve, the problems that we typically go online to solve. For example, “What’s the best microphone for podcasting?” There you are.
[11:38] It jumped out at me, as I’m staring right into an “RE-20″, “Electrovoice RE-20″ microphone, if you’re interested. We go online to ask those questions. “Dog trainer in Täby, Sweden”, if I needed a dog trainer, or I’m searching in Swedish or whatever.
[11:57] You get my point. If you look at the analytics, for most business websites, you’ll see that organic search is the biggest driver of traffic to that site.
[12:08] People will ask questions and land on to your website. In the good old days, Google used to give you access on data to all those keyword questions.
[12:20] You could find out exactly what people were using to find their way to your website. Unfortunately, that’s not the case anymore.
[12:27] There are ways around this to give you a real insight into what you’re doing and what keyword phrases are bringing people to your site. I use linking the show notes. Just go along to jontusmedia.com/135.
[12:45] I use Raven Tools for SEO, for site auditing, auditing all those nuts and bolts that see how a site works, whether it’s actual performance in speed, performance in keywords, how it performs in social, although we use other tools in social that I mentioned last week in Episode 134, jontusmedia.com/134. I use Raven Tools.
[13:14] The good thing about Raven Tools is that, as well as doing really in-depth site audits, you can get an insight into the keywords that Google has identified in your site.
[13:28] Raven Tools crawls through your website, using actually the Google API, and gives you an insight into those keywords, not only telling you the keywords. It shows you where those keywords, on average, rank in the search engine result pages, the SERPs.
[13:46] It’s quite surprising what kinds of things become keyword phrases. For example, a site that we’re working on continually throws up a result about blueberry telephones…blueberry smartphones. Telephone sounds so twentieth century, doesn’t it?
[14:04] It continually throws up a result about blueberry phones. That’s got nothing to do with the site. That is, in fact, the main keyword on that whole website. That’s not so super-important. The main keyword on jontusmedia.com is actually “microphone podcasting”.
[14:24] Of course, that is not our key service at all. It’s far from it. In fact, it gets a lot of traffic, because of that keyword phrase, but that’s not the main one.
[14:37] By doing some keyword research, you can really see if there is a disconnect between what Google is sending people to your site, because of certain keywords, and what you’re actually doing. Here’s my strategy.
[14:52] If you use a tool like Raven Tools, you can get a complete overview of the kind of keywords that Google is using to send people to your website. Take those keywords out of Raven.
[15:03] They are very easy to export. Put them into a spreadsheet, whether it’s Excel or Numbers or Google Spreadsheets, which is what I use. You can just put them all in there, so you get a complete overview.
[15:16] Then create another sheet next to it and, from the first sheet, copy and paste it into your second sheet. In that second sheet, remove all the keyword phrases that are worthless and that have nothing to do with your business.
[15:33] For example, I was doing this for a client’s site the day before yesterday. I saw that one of the keyword phrases was to do with an ice-cream truck. There was an article about an ice cream truck in their blogging. That was one of the most powerful keywords and it had absolutely nothing to do with the site.
[15:53] You want to take out those keywords, so you get a clearer understanding of the keywords that are related to your specific business. Let’s say you took a list of the top 50 keywords that Google has given you. You’ll see how many of those top 50 are actually related to your business.
[16:14] If you strip all the useless ones away and are left with very, very few, that’s where you’ve got a problem. That’s where you’re going to have to really do something about it. That’s where you’ll go to Tools to do more keyword research to find really powerful words that you should be targeting with your content marketing.
[16:35] When you’ve reduced the list down to the important words, you can also start to use Google’s AdWords tool, which is very, very good for finding new words related to your keyword phrase.
[16:50] Say, for example, let’s say “content marketing B2B” was your keyword phrase, that was actually quite a useful keyword phrase across your site. Content marketing B2B.
[17:04] That’s something that’s actually quite important on our website. If you use Raven or you go to Google depends. There are many, many tools for this. Really it’s something that I can’t tell you, “This is the best one for you.” All I can really show you is what I use. We use Raven Tools.
[17:22] We’ll start doing research. Ask for related words to that keyword phrase. For example, some keyword phrases that are related to content marketing B2B might be “guerrilla marketing”. It might be “viral marketing B2B”.
[17:40] You can start to see that, by doing more research around an existing keyword that works for you, you can get a list of words that you should also be targeting.
[17:53] You can look at how difficult it is to compete for them. Tools like Raven will tell you how many other sites…they’ll show you the sites that rank top for those keywords, how many back-links or links to that site that site might have, so you can really see how competitive it’s going to be.
[18:11] At the very simplest level, you can see where you could be targeting different key phrases that are related to the most important keyword phrases on your site. That will inspire you. That will suggest to you the kind of content that you should be creating.
[18:28] One of the best places to learn about how to do this is YouTube. Raven Tools, for example, has lots of instruction about how to use their tools on YouTube. Or you can go along to services like Linda, linda.com…there’s a link in the show notes.
[18:45] Linda is a great online training educational resource. You have to pay for it, but it gives you amazing, in-depth training. Even for professionals working in the marketing industry, this is really, really a great way of staying up-to-date with new skills.
[19:03] Just this week, I’ve been doing some work on SEO, updating my skills through Linda. A four-hour course, spread over a few days, just watching during coffee or just after dinner, if I’ve had a spot of time to do that is a really great way of staying up-to-date.
[19:21] If you’re bootstrapping or if you’re someone in a marketing team yourself, you can go away to sites like Linda and really learn how to do this in more depth.
[19:30] What I’m trying to do here is to guide you into where you could be going. By working out your keywords and related keywords that you could be targeting, you can really be really improving the funnel, the way that you bring people into your site related to the key services or the key products that you are trying to sell.
[19:52] This is such an important part of digital marketing. It’s a bit geeky. It’s not an easy, one-afternoon process. But it enables you to make a tighter connect, a tighter focus between what you are actually selling and what people are going online to look for. If there is a tighter connect, then you increase the chance of conversion.
[20:21] You increase the chance of people coming to you and seeing that you’re the kind of person, that you’re the kind of business with which they should be working or purchasing from. Don’t underestimate the value of keywords and keyword research. It’s a bit geeky. It’s going to take you a bit of time.
[20:38] If you’re bootstrapping, if you’re doing this internally, in-house, and you need to find the information yourself, it’s out there. Get learning.
[20:49] Another thing that you could do, in terms of really looking at whether you’re in this “Oh my gosh” market moment and there is a disconnect what your site is actually doing now, that there are no leads coming in and you really feel that it’s not working, is a much more in-depth site audit, where you look at branding.
[21:15] Does your brand speak to a target audience? You can also look at the nuts and bolts. For example, again using a tool like Raven Tools and this is why I really love Raven Tools, you can do a technical audit of your site. You can look at what’s broken. Are there page links that are broken? Are there meta-descriptions?
[21:36] Those descriptions…when you write a blogpost with most of the really good themes for WordPress, they’ll invite you to write a custom meta-description. A meta-description is that little bit of excerpt text that comes under the link title in search engine results.
[21:57] You might see, “Best microphone for podcasting” as the result. Underneath, you’ll see, “A five-minute review of the best mic for podcasting” or something like that. Writing custom meta-descriptions is a really good way of improving your position in search engine results. It’s very good for SEO.
[22:20] If you’ve got posts that use the same meta-description, if you perhaps do a particular weekly post, you’ll see that that waters down your site. Raven will identify where you’ve got duplicate content across your site. You can go through and remove and tweak those.
[22:37] Another great thing that Raven does is that it will tell you those blogposts, the pages on your website, that don’t have enough text. Best practice seems to suggest that posts should have a minimum of 450 words on a page, otherwise Google starts to think that’s it’s not a very important page.
[22:59] If there are lots of unimportant pages, Google doesn’t rate the value of the site, et cetera, et cetera.
[23:05] A tool like Raven is very, very good for crawling through your site and saying, “You really need to improve this page.” Google has really put an increased importance on site speed, the time it takes for your website to load, the competence, the value of your site, depending on how quickly it loads.
[23:29] There are tools like Google’s Site Speed Page Tool…I can’t remember the exact title. You just have to Google “site speed Google tool” and it will tell you the speed at which your page loads. It’s the same in Raven. It will do that for you.
[23:46] It will give you a score. It will give you a benchmark that you can compare to other sites.
[23:49] It will say, this needs to be changed. Perhaps you need to have gzip. Perhaps you need to have Sprites. Those are different kind of images in the design. This will show you if your site is out-of-date. If a web-design team made your site three or four years ago, technology has moved on.
[24:06] Techniques have moved on. There are ways to speed up the load-time that your website has. It could be that that’s one of the things you really need to improve. That could be one of the things that means your site is not performing as well as it used to a couple of years ago.
[24:23] You can really dig down into your site using tools like Raven that will enable you to identify those things that you need to improve, that need to be sharpened, that need to really be taken care of, if your site is going to function as well as it used to.
[24:41] It’s like buying a car. I just bought a new car. You buy a new car. It’s fabulous. Everything works, unless it’s a Friday example, where they rushed it off the production line. It’s wonderful. It feels so amazing. Everything works. It’s a dream to drive.
[25:02] But then, three years down the line, you’re beginning to think, “It’s not like it used to be.” It’s the same with computers.
[25:07] You buy yourself a spanking-new iMac and, a couple of years down the line, it’s a bit chuggish. You’re thinking, “I’ve got to get some new RAM for it or I’ve got to get it a new hard-drive to speed it up, to give myself more space.”
[25:20] Things move on. The same goes for websites. There comes a time [laughs] …I know I sound like, “There comes a time….”, where you really do need to give it a tune-up. A tool like Raven will show you. There are other free tools out there.
[25:36] Raven is not a free tool. It’s not super-expensive. I think it’s in the region of $99 US a month. There are lots of tools out there, which will enable you to identify what’s wrong.
[25:48] The advantage of a paid tool like Raven, and there are some other very good ones, is that you have everything in one place. If you want to do the freemium model, you’re going to have to dig deeper. There are other services out there.
[26:02] There are lots of free things that will tell you site speed and that will identify problems with your code, et cetera. You’re just going to have to do a bit more research.
[26:12] The final thing on my list for really breathing life into your marketing, to help you get over that “Oh my gosh” moment is to really give yourself a new social kick-start. Social media has become part of the parlance of marketing.
[26:33] In most business now, very, very rarely do I come across anyone that doesn’t understand that Facebook or Twitter is something that they should be exploring or using or fine-tuning. Social media has been around now and has become part of what we’re doing in marketing, but many people are not seeing that return on investment.
[26:57] It can be time, if you’re going through that “On my gosh” moment, to look at what you’re doing on social and to breath new life into it. Here are a few things that I think you can do. For starters, determine your goals. This is something that I always start with. I had a conversation with a prospective customer this week.
[27:16] The first thing I said to him was, “What’s your ultimate goal?” He started telling me about his skills and what he could do. I said, ‘No. No. No. No. No. Where do you want to be, at the end of your business? Do you want to be selling it to others? Do you want to be retaining a stake in it? Do you want to be going off to play golf and shutting it down?”
[27:39] You need to know what that real goal is, breaking down your marketing and your business into goals, measuring to see how you’re moving towards goals. You need to determine your goals for being on social media.
[27:52] Are you looking to get people to your contact form to approach you, to evaluate whether your services are for them? Are you looking to get people to purchase things online? You know what your goals are. Double check that you know what your goals are in relation to social.
[28:15] That will enable you to measure it. It will also get you mentally set. It will start you thinking through that whole process of, “Is what we’re doing on social related to what our business goals are?”
[28:28] For example, I find myself tweeting about Liverpool or Basset Hounds or sharing photographs about all sort of things.
[28:37] That’s not really linked to my business goals of finding people to hire Jontus Media to work on marketing sprints,whether it’s developing a website or improving a particular campaign over a max three month period or whether it’s a marathon.
[28:55] They want us to come in and really work as their in-house marketing team, but out-sourced. I find myself doing other things. I need to really remind myself of those goals. Improve your bio, on Twitter on particular. I see lots of generic bios, where people do exactly the same things.
[29:15] “I’m a mother, father, husband, Christian, dog-loving, blah, blah, blah…” So many people use this same format.
[29:24] Maybe you can find a way to differentiate yourself that really shows exactly what your business is doing, the solutions that you provide. Maybe that will drive clicks through. Talking of clicks, make sure the links that you use in your bios are actually really the right links.
[29:43] I came across someone very interesting, who had followed me yesterday. I looked at their bio and thought, “Oh, I must check out their website.” Click. It was broken. It went to a dead page.
[29:55] Now, being as obsessive as I tend to be, I did a bit of fiddling and found my way to the page that I was looking for. But, imagine the number of people that just think, “Ha, I can’t be bothered.”
[30:07] Make sure that your bio is tip-top. Look at what is working. I’ve mentioned Twitter Analytics. I’ve mentioned Facebook Analytics and tools like LeadSocial. Identify what’s working and what’s not working. Knowledge is power. The data that you have is power.
[30:25] Seeing what’s working and relating that to your goals and what you’re actually doing on Social can get you more mentally set and push you in the right direction.
[30:35] Strategically select the people you want to follow, whether you’re on Twitter or LinkedIn, if you’re building specific relationships.
[30:44] Twitter is very, very good for creating lists, whether it’s local lists…people in the Stockholm region that work within a B2B space in which you specialize and you want to build and with whom you want to build a relationship with a long-term view to getting them into your sales funnel.
[31:01] Building lists can be very, very important on Social. Finding key influences in your niche…if you’re a start-up, if you’re doing something interesting and one of the big guns connects with you, likes what you’re doing, becomes an ambassador for what you’re doing and promotes you, that is so important.
[31:22] For example, Mark Schaefer listed me on a post – 70 Rising Social Media Stars – a while back of one of the hundred social media blah, blah, blah people to watch. You won’t believe the number of people that have approached about work, connected with me, because of that post.
[31:39] Oracle, here in Sweden, a big enterprise business, contacted us specifically because of that post. Thank you very much Mark. Link in the show notes jontusmedia.com/135. It’s very, very important to connect and to build relationships with key influencers in your niche.
[32:00] Hashtags are incredibly useful. I listened to an interview fairly recently. I think it was on social media examiner, where someone was talking about the power of hashtags. Hashtags are a way in which the posts on social media are organized.
[32:18] For example, if I hashtag a tweet about this podcast, certain people will be following the hashtag “podcast”. My using that might get them to click through and find my podcast and start that whole process of getting them from the top of the funnel further down into the sales part.
[32:37] Are you using hashtags? Don’t fill every social media post with a bazillion hashtags.
[32:44] I find that somewhere between one and two tends to be the sweet spot for getting a social update noticed. Hashtags work on Facebook and on Instagram. Instagram doesn’t let you have links, but you can use links in your bio on Instagram.
[33:02] Hashtags are going to be very good ways of people finding their way to your business.
[33:07] The other good thing about hashtags is that, if, for example, you do an interview as part of your content marketing, whether it’s on a podcast or a blogpost, by using hashtags, you don’t have to keep “@” direct messaging…when I mean direct, I’m saying “@”, so it jumps up in the person’s stream that you’ve had as the interviewee.
[33:29] By not using the “@” repetitively, you don’t spam their stream. However, the hashtags are super important.
[33:37] For example, on the “Beyond the Business Card” podcast that I do with Bernie Mitchell for a company in the States called “Mygooi”, we interviewed David Keene, from Google, Head of Marketing for the Northern Region of Google, based in the UK. We interviewed him. That was a very, very popular podcast.
[33:57] It got a lot of downloads. There was a lot of interest in it. But, of course, we didn’t keep tweeting out including David Keene’s Twitter handle, because it would have driven David bonkers.
[34:07] What we did was use lots of hashtags around Google, GoogleWork, GoogleDocs, Cloud, CloudMarketing, CloudWork. That was what drove people through social through to the podcast, to download the podcast.
[34:21] We saw a 250 percent increase in traffic to the site and I think over a 325 percent increase in downloads for that show, specifically because of hashtags. Don’t underestimate them.
[34:37] There’s much, much more that I could say about helping to cope with that “Oh my gosh” moment, but I’ve gone on long enough, slightly longer than usual. I can feel myself going on longer. So we’ll draw it to a close there.
[34:50] If you’ve got any questions, any feedback or anything you’d like to take up about this “Oh my gosh” moment, do get in touch. You can connect with me personally on Twitter @jonbuscall, J-O-N-B-U-S-C-A-L-L. You’ll find links to that on jontusmedia.com.
[35:04] If you like the show, I’d really, really appreciate if you’d put a tweet out on social media, whether it’s Facebook, LinkedIn, GooglePlus, you name it. It’s a really, really great way of getting the show found. Of course, it’s important for my business.
[35:20] Finally, if you could do one thing for me though this week, I’d really appreciate it if you went to iTunes and wrote a review.
[35:28] There is such competition in the podcasting space now. There really is. There are so many people that have jumped on to podcasting that it is getting harder and harder to find new listeners, no matter how active you are. Reviews are a good way of promoting your podcasts.
[35:45] Reviews are a great way of people clicking through and finding you. I put this out for free. I’d really appreciate it if you took a couple of minutes, if you liked the show, to write a review on iTunes. I’ll be back with another episode very, very soon.
[36:01] The woof’s here in the DogHouse Studio. They’re pretty good, actually. I think Digby’s just beginning to slurp, so we’ll call it a day. Thank you very much for listening.
[36:09] [music]
Woman: [36:11] “Online Marketing and Communications” is recorded in the DogHouse Studios.
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