Affiliations Committee comments: First part. I'll continue tomorrow :)
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Revision as of 05:12, 14 May 2013
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Hi! The AffComm members have read and commented your ByLaws. We summarize our observations in following statements. We hope you can read calmously and answer. Congratulations for all your efforts.
Hi! The AffComm members have read and commented your ByLaws. We summarize our observations in following statements. We hope you can read calmously and answer. Congratulations for all your efforts.
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* ''Only for clarification''. (§ 1.2) The AffComm hasn't special objection about put their seat in Halle and stay under German law. But we want to know if still remains the original circumstances that motivated you to agree this. Because if you would want to change it, this is the moment.
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* ''Only for clarification''. (§ 1.2) The AffComm hasn't special objection about put your seat in Halle and stay under German law. But we want to know if still remains the original circumstances that motivated you to agree this. Because if you would want to change it, this is the moment.
:: I am not completely sure, whether I have understood it right. The original intention was quite pragmatic. We started as a German association. We are spread out around Germany. And our treasurer hails from Halle (Saale). So he registered the association at his hometown's court. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: I am not completely sure, whether I have understood it right. The original intention was quite pragmatic. We started as a German association. We are spread out around Germany. And our treasurer hails from Halle (Saale). So he registered the association at his hometown's court. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Germany has a long tradition as a constitutional democracy. The German Association law is based only on the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany (the Constitution of Germany) and the Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch (the civil code of Germany). In contrast to the United States the association law is only affected by federal law but not by federal state law. The seat within Germany can be changed as a result of a decision of the General Assembly. Moving the seat abroad means the dissolution of the association, the moving of its assets to another German non-profit organization and the loss of rights toward the Wikimedia Foundation. But German associations can act worldwide. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Germany has a long tradition as a constitutional democracy. The German Association law is based only on the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany (the Constitution of Germany) and the Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch (the civil code of Germany). In contrast to the United States the association law is only affected by federal law but not by federal state law. The seat within Germany can be changed as a result of a decision of the General Assembly. Moving the seat abroad means the dissolution of the association, the moving of its assets to another German non-profit organization and the loss of rights toward the Wikimedia Foundation. But German associations can act worldwide. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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:: Yes, it is. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Yes, it is. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: It is correct. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: It is correct. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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:::Ok. Thank you. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador (WMMX)]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
* ''Minor''. (§ 19) Website of association must be updated.
* ''Minor''. (§ 19) Website of association must be updated.
:: Ok, thanks. We change it during our next meeting. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Ok, thanks. We change it during our next meeting. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: We will do it. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: We will do it. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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:::OK. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador (WMMX)]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
* ''Important''. (§ 5) Have you thought about include in this section something about data protection and privacy policies?
* ''Important''. (§ 5) Have you thought about include in this section something about data protection and privacy policies?
:: Good point. I am going to check some other by-laws to get some inspirations. Then we will provide a suggestion to you and put it on our next meeting's schedule for resolution in summer. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Good point. I am going to check some other by-laws to get some inspirations. Then we will provide a suggestion to you and put it on our next meeting's schedule for resolution in summer. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Privacy law in Germany is a high-standard, explicitly stated federal law in Germany. It is consistent with the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Therefore, privacy law must not be part of German By-laws. Only law enforcement authorities can restrict this law. Additionally, at the web site real member names are substituted by the nicknames. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Privacy law in Germany is a high-standard, explicitly stated federal law in Germany. It is consistent with the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Therefore, privacy law must not be part of German By-laws. Only law enforcement authorities can restrict this law. Additionally, at the web site real member names are substituted by the nicknames. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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::: OK. Only as suggestion: you should put this explanation in an accesible place (web site or page on Meta) to potential members for whom german law or european law is not familiar. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador (WMMX)]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
* ''Intermediate''. A disclaimer about limitation of association responsibility and contents of the project is recommendable.
* ''Intermediate''. A disclaimer about limitation of association responsibility and contents of the project is recommendable.
:: We handed the project itself over to the WMF. But it may be wise to word a paragraph. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: We handed the project itself over to the WMF. But it may be wise to word a paragraph. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: The Limitation of Liability is part of the Cooperation Agreement between the association and the WMF. § 16.1 of the association's By-Laws states that the assets of the association are the only liability for accounts payable. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: The Limitation of Liability is part of the Cooperation Agreement between the association and the WMF. § 16.1 of the association's By-Laws states that the assets of the association are the only liability for accounts payable. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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:::Ok. Thank you for explanation. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador (WMMX)]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
* ''Minor''. (§ 7.2) Article 2 is duplicated in paragraph 7.
* ''Minor''. (§ 7.2) Article 2 is duplicated in paragraph 7.
:: I've changed it. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: I've changed it. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
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::: Thanks. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador (WMMX)]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
* ''Question''. (§ 8.1/2) What exactly is the difference between these two definitions of the board? Is relevant if in 8.2 the three associate board members are not mentioned.
* ''Question''. (§ 8.1/2) What exactly is the difference between these two definitions of the board? Is relevant if in 8.2 the three associate board members are not mentioned.
:: The associate board members are assessors. They assist the board and can replace a board member in worst case (leaving the association before the next election is taking place or other unpredictable incidents). I am going to check, whether we should clarify or rephrase it and check the translation as well. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: The associate board members are assessors. They assist the board and can replace a board member in worst case (leaving the association before the next election is taking place or other unpredictable incidents). I am going to check, whether we should clarify or rephrase it and check the translation as well. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: As told associate board members are assessors without voting power. The are elected in a similar way as board members because the could act as replacement board members in case of the resignation of a board member for instance in the case of death to be able to function. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: As told associate board members are assessors without voting power. The are elected in a similar way as board members because the could act as replacement board members in case of the resignation of a board member for instance in the case of death to be able to function. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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:::That means, at final, only the members mentioned in 8.2 has decision making capabilities, am I correct? I understand the difference that you are describing but is not something that could be infer from wording. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador (WMMX)]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
* ''Medium''. (§ 9.2) As your organization grows bigger, you probably want to change this to something like "three members or 10% of the active members, whichever is larger"
* ''Medium''. (§ 9.2) As your organization grows bigger, you probably want to change this to something like "three members or 10% of the active members, whichever is larger"
:: Sounds reasonable. I put it on the meetings schedule. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: Sounds reasonable. I put it on the meetings schedule. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: A statement like this is reasonable and can be added after a decision of the General Assembly. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
:: A statement like this is reasonable and can be added after a decision of the General Assembly. --[[User:RolandUnger|RolandUnger]] ([[User talk:RolandUnger|talk]]) 10:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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:::Thank you. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador (WMMX)]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
* ''Important''. (§ 13.1) In our book, threshold for changing ByLaws is low. Most of associations have a harder majority. We suggest a three-quarters majority. Although, we are open to hear your arguments if current majority is better for you.
* ''Important''. (§ 13.1) In our book, threshold for changing ByLaws is low. Most of associations have a harder majority. We suggest a three-quarters majority. Although, we are open to hear your arguments if current majority is better for you.
:: The current majority was necessary. Not every member had time to travel to the meetings. Missing 2 members caused no quorum. Meanwhile we have more international members an hold online assemblies only. We are doing to discuss this. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:: The current majority was necessary. Not every member had time to travel to the meetings. Missing 2 members caused no quorum. Meanwhile we have more international members an hold online assemblies only. We are doing to discuss this. -- [[User:DerFussi|Der]][[User talk:DerFussi|Fussi]] 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)