@marimphil wrote:
Hello Friends,
i m posting this to inform you , and more importantly to prevent you from a "PROFESSIONAL SUICIDE"....
first something about me.....
i took DNB CVTS 6 year course in Asian Heart Institute , Mumbai, in April 2012....and i left from there last year in August, 2014....yes , after 2 and half years of residency...
all of you must be like "What The Hell i am talking...left after 2 and half years..."
you wont be after i m gonna tell you the condition of students and of academics there....
as i said, taking CVTS in Asian Heart Institute will be equivalent to Professional Suicide....you will learn nothing there except humiliation....after 7 years, (yes at least one year you will need to pass out the exam because you will be learning absolutely zero there), when you will be having a DNB CVTS degree in your hand you will find yourself no more than a " Cardiac Surgeon's Compounder"....in Asian Heart Institute you wil get absolutely no hands-on training (cutting), and also you will be standing nowhere in terms of theoretical knowledge....even the already MCh cardiac surgeons who are doing job there they dont get to do anything on heart....they are just opening and closing the chest for the main surgeon to come and operate on heart...
till now, 10 students have opted for CVTS seat there, and only three are left....and those who are there are due to some personal reasons of there own due to which they couldnt leave....given a chance to get transfer to another institution, they will happily accept it....
for last 2 years we were constantly complaining about the condition to the DNB inspection person, so for last two years there were no seats...this year they managed to get seats because there was no inspection done, no questions asked to the students already there if the things have changed or not...Believe me, Nothing has changed....
Below i m posting the Letter which i sent to DNB Before Leaving my seat from Asian Heart Institute....
No Academics on the name of DNB-CVTS course in Asian Heart Institute (Mumbai)
Respected Sir,
This is to bring to your kind attention the pathetic condition of DNB-CVTS course and its students in Asian Heart institute, Mumbai.
There is absolutely zero academic activity on the name of DNB-CVTS course in this institute…..DNB-CVTS students are just treated as bonded endlessly working labors with no rights to ask for any academic activity…..
They treat students as bonded labours who have to work for the hospital daily from 8 am in the morning to 2 am in the night in Operation Theatre (18 hours), all 6 days of week (a large amount of this time is wasted being scrubbed and doing nothing inside the operation theatre)….. The work in OT is continuous, with no relief even for lunch and dinner….
There are no lectures taken by any of the consultant….and with such extensive and exhausting working hours, students also doesn’t get any time for self-study….a professor has been appointed to take classes every Saturday morning, but its just for name sake….we only have to prepare the topics to present in the Saturday morning class, and with 18 hours daily exhausting working we fail to prepare anything for the class, and hence the class is nothing but a formality and a great disappointment for the visiting professor too….there are no lectures taken by the visiting faculty or the in hospital consultant…..what the hospital all care about is that there work should not be hindered, it should carry on without any importance given to DNB program….
Teaching in OT……
In terms of practical/surgical training, students are trained just enough to help/assist them in surgeries with no further progress going on….no initiative is being taken by the hospital for surgical training of the CVTS students….
Teaching in wards…..
no CVTS consultant comes for rounds in wards, so there is absolutely no teaching, no learning which takes place in wards….first year students have to work blindly in wards without any guidance and teaching from any senior person…
The DNB-CVTS Curriculum…..
DNB CVTS 6 year course curriculum is not at all followed with no rotational postings….from day 1, first year students are posted in cardiac surgery wards, who have to look after the CVTS patients, and then at the end of the year (till next junior batch comes) they are called into cardiac OT….
Thesis….
Topics are given to the students with nobody to guide them how to proceed further on it….students don’t have any time (as daily 18 hours are spent scrubbed in OT) to collect data and work on the thesis…..
Atmosphere at work….
even after giving their best efforts and full time, students are regularly threatened….they have to go even through physical violence inside the operation theatre while assisting the case….scoldings and warnings are given without listening to the students , no reasoning is entertained….
Even after spending exhausting 18 hours in OT , students are forced to fill the hospital data records of the patients and operation records….the data of data records are already entered in file at three different places, so filling a different data record is nothing but just duplication of work….if the data records are not completed on daily basis, half day salary is deducted and students are threatened (for strict action, writing to DNB against students and termination) almost on daily basis…(the so called data records are lying uselessly in the storehouse with no use for years)…
Inspection….
Dr. XYZ (we wrote the name in the letter sent to DNB) came for 1st inspection from DNB, in whom keeping their faith that the information will be kept confidential, students told all the problems to him….but Dr. Yadav told to the hospital all the complaints done by the students with their names….following which students were threatened not to repeat the mistake in future otherwise be ready to face the consequences…..when 2nd inspection was conducted by DNB, students were threatened in advance by the hospital management not to speak anything negative about hospital otherwise consequences won’t be good….
Food…..
no time is given to take the meals….its very difficult to get even two time meal in this hospital….the canteen hours for staff are fixed, if you cant go for food in that time then you have to stay hungry….the canteen is so pathetic that when you come out of OT at night after the surgery is over (2 am) you get nothing in the canteen to eat but a sorry figure of the canteen person…even students are not allowed to keep any eatables in their hostel rooms….things are checked at the entrance of the hospital by security, and if any eatable found, is forced to be kept outside in the security office only (not even biscuit, chocolate, dry fruits etc are allowed)….the people from the admin department come almost daily, in the absence of the students, to check the hostel rooms for any eatables…they even check things inside the cupboards, if not locked….(this is heights)….hostel rooms are checked regularly for eatables as if a narcotic department is checking for illegal drugs or police is checking for any suspicious activity….
Sir,
There is a needful request to please transfer us the students to some other institute for a better future of all the DNB-CVTS students, as this institute has nothing to offer to the students as a learning institute…..
i have shared what i had suffered there during my 2 and half year residency there.......i dont want any one else to suffer, and loose precious years of your life for absolutely nothing, so i shared the bitter truth of that institute....
and remember, CVTS is not as fascinating a branch as it looks from outside....as a CVTS surgeon, either you will be successful, or you will be absolutely none...percentage of successful is hardly 5%....CVTS surgeons are operating for mere 20-25 k per operation, and are hardly getting 3-5 patients per month on their name....the scenario in big cities is even worst, all the patients are taken by big names only....and its obvious, for a Heart surgery the patient opts for the most successful surgeon, as it is the question of life and death....This ground reality of CVTS was told to us by a CVTS surgeon from KEM hospital, who is on the post of A.P. there....
Friends, its now up to you if you still wanna choose that institute for your future....
and Do Remember...if you take the seat, and then you leave, you will be barred from taking any further seat via DNB for next 6 years... so please take your decision carefully....
doc u might just have saved 1 bakra for sure and i am sure many other aspirants are definitely benefited ...feels bad that u had to go through all that... kudos to u for taking an initiative that others doesnt have to walk the same dreaded path.. wishing well and good luck for whatever u r looking forward to..cheers
I appreciate d things shared .. il rather choose family med rather thn choosing such a hospital in which after 6 yrs u r nothing thank you peace
actually I m really frustrated The way DNB/NBE is functioning....the way it is giving accreditations, n not taking care of student's academics, it is behaving just like those Private colleges whose aim is to earn money by selling degrees....looks like these corporate hospitals are getting accreditation by paying handsome amount, to get bakra who would work 24x7 like Gadha for them.... the condition of medical education in India is going down day by day, DNB is adding to this worsening....
taking a surgical field in DNB may really prove a nightmare for those who wish to become good surgeons with better surgical skills....
I used to be a bright student throughout my school n my mbbs days..... the condition of PG education in India has really disappointed me... had my Family didn't force me to stay in India, I would have given USMLE and settled abroad....
I request you all to please share this post as much as possible so that such hospital can No more survive in DNB seat list, n no more precious years of anybody's life wasted....
It is really saddening to know that Asia Heart Instt is treating her residents in this fashion. Did NBE not reply to your mails? Remember me dude? We met during our theory exam in December 2013. It is really sad to hear that you are discontinuing the course 2.5 yrs after starting off. My heartiest sympathies are with you. May be NBE could have allotted you guys elsewhere like NH Bangalore/Kolkata / Satya Sai Institutes/GKNM etc where DNB training seems to be better.
No point of this post if u don't have money or any category waste of al this from ur garg.u did not pay single pie from ur pocket everything u studied freely ,it's ur mistake in choosing sub ,even if u tel people wil they stop taking that seat or wat,ArAmse they take it baba so don't give waste advices ,now u pay 1crore or read for aipg ,yes Dnb is modified medical officer everything u have to read ,I m Dnb radiotherapy first year Bhopal jnch ,,,,,,Garg Ji kitna bolne ke bad bi seat wil be filled100000%
...I don't care if someone from down the rank choose it, they are beggers...I Care for those who have potential n just choosing CVTS because of a dream...I want to percent their Dreams from being shattered...
I also had a rank in 2600 in AIPG, and some 2400 in DNB ...I opted for CVTS because it was my dream...n I opted for Asian heart institute because I was told by a cardiac surgeon in Delhi that it has a very skilled Cardiac surgeon, so go learn b get trained under him... he didn't know anything about academics in that institute... that's why I choose Asian heart institute....
if, like this post of mine, somebody have informed me about condition in Asian heart institute, I would have chosen some other institute.... and would have been well into my 4 th year of CVTS residency at present....
the gist is, at that rank I was having other options, which I could have chosen... but a wrong decision cost me 4 years of my life....so, if somebody is having a good rank, then after reading this post of mine I think he/she will choose a better option available....
now about filing of seat you said, yes it will be filled, but not by some deserving candidate... not by someone having a good rank.... at least a talent, a good student won't lose his precious years of life....
and the advice you are giving to me and others of paying 1 crore, keep it with you.don't give hopeless advices to students here.....I started my studies again for exams in October 2014, last year and had already got good ranks in this may June exams....so don't use the platform to give post advices which discourage others... rather you should use this to help others, too guide others... not to discourage others....
below are my ranks in May June 2015 exams....
AIIMS - 1198
PGI - 527
JIPMER - 105
DNB - 728
my advice won't go in fruitless if after reading this post I can prevent a deserving candidate from getting his/her future ruined...
hey buddy thanx
u save lot of people like me who were thinking on such options
I have 2k rank this dnb
I have one query for u
after being out of competition from 2 years how do u mange to got good ranks in all exams in just 8-9 months??
what's ur main focus of study's
subwise
kalam
class notes??
plz xpalin briefly so that it wud help all to do come back..
In my institute itself, there were 2 guys in DNB General Surgery who were shifted here after the huge AMRI fire which ended NBE affiliation too for the institute at Dhakuria, Kolkata. They joined NH RTIICS in their 2nd yr, completed their course duration, have passed their degree examination already and are practicing consultants now in Kolkata.
So the provision for change of institute is there in DNB. Just that you have to be heard. And reasons have to be strong enough, of course.
the biggest thing which helped me was the will power to fight till the end....I didn't want to give up....
I joined classes in October and with that I started my studies with full dedication....I started studying in September itself....i finished AA AIIMS volume one twice, and kalam volume one once, before November 2014 exams.... as a result I got 7000+ rank in DNB exam.... obviously I was not going to get a good seat at that rank...so I continued my studies @12-14 hours every day, and also attended the classes....I made classes and notes as my base.... since I left reading mbbs syllabus things in 2012, it was very necessary for me to first get back into that thing again.... n studying hard to get knowledge and understanding in September- October period helped me the most to Dive back into preparation...then, focusing On classes and notes were the best thing to do....I tried to do question banks side by side, but with the classes I couldn't do much, nit more than 60% of any question Bank I could cover.....
but the main thing, I remained focused all throughout this time till May end, ie till jipmer exam....
the only mantra is, remain focused On what you are doing, n never lose hope... don't get discouraged by whatever life brings to you, or other people say to you....
all the best to all... n to me too... icon_wink.gif
(I named AA and kalam, it doesn't mean I m recommending them... please don't take it as recommendation...I have not explored enough yet to recommend anything, or to give any kind of advice... )
I have posted this on a fb page named inkblot... if possible n comfortable, please share your views and comments there... and your queries too... i will answer all as I m answering above...
the reason being that rxpg has become difficult to approach... those who haven't registered can't see the posts to get benefit...n nobody want to register to a new website in three exam going days.....while on fb, it's open... everybody can see n get benefited....
so, if possible, please search for page "inkblot" On fb, n share that post from there with your friends and others....
the more we fight, the more we will be able to see change in the system.... more people will come up with such things going in other institutes.... then only our voice will reach the proper officials and we will be able to bring the desired change....
(what we write here, remains between the rxpg users only)
I must appreciate your courage. God will help you to make up your lost years.
well said dude....dnb is all about institute....unloke md ms no matter what onstitue u will pass thanks to indian system
could not believe ctvs by aipg ranker 2600 u could have got surgery then mch y u wwannarun that hasty ctvs...............alays i think ctvs is taken by no option...................kk sorry gARG ,........................I M NOTHING INFRONT OF U,,,,,,,,,FIRST TIME I M SEEING PASSIONED CTVS ASPIRANTS
Boss..donn mind me asking but which branch do u want ...cz at 105 rank in jipmer..u cud hv gt surgery..if ctvs is wat u r aiming for..btw i really appreciate ur tenacity
CVTS was my dream, DNB gave me a chance to directly get into it....general surgery, you all know the market condition of it...n again competing for MCh , after MS general surgery, is not an easy thing, it may take 1-2 years to get admission... that's why I took via DNB....
@adreno....even then my second choice was orthopedics... which I m aiming now.... that's why I didn't take in jipmer....and I have already wasted 4 years of life, now I can't think about going for MCh or DM thing....
so this time, choice is Ortho, dermatology n Radio, in this sequence...
u r rite...atleast u hav the guts to write it to the board...but many of them suffer and never let it out..it leads to others innocents also get trapped there...no one takes it wanted...if everyone senoirs let others know about their pros and cons...will be beneficial..thank you so much..appreciate it.
This person reaffirms our belief that humanity still exists. He spared his time and made a sincere effort to protect others. This sort of altruism is rarely seen these days. His post underlines the importance of thorough enquiry before committing one's valuable years to a particular institute. Could you please elaborate further regarding the possible ways in which students may face hardships in such programs?
one question for you- what is your strategy of preparation during these last 3 months remaining for NEET..
will thorough regular revision from coaching notes and one liners from roams/sure success with neet/dnb last 5 years papers suffice for a good rank ?
Appreciate you for writing letter and taking chances to bring the real problems out.
There is a provision of a transfer bro. In my institute, there was a transfer in since v had one vacancy. As the relieving hospital lost its departmental accreditation. So the rule does exist. Its just not utilised.
Garg and others. I am not gen surg.ctvs. Am D.orth DNB orth on my way to a fellowship but just a piece of advice for all the CVTS interested people. Getting MCh CVTS is not that difficult post DNB/MS Gen surg. I am telling this as it has been the experience of couple of guys from my circle who are MS Gen Surg/ DNB Gen Surg. As is the case among their breed, everybody wants to become Uro/Onco. My guys have been offered MCh CVTS/Peds at almost all the places they sat for exams in last 3 years. They did not opt for it as they were not interested due to various reasons. But if you are interested then it is not at all difficult to obtain a MCh CVTS post Gen surg so don't fret. Best of luck to you all!
Thanks a lot sir...u saved our life sir....i myself was planning to take seat in cvts in asian heart dis dnb nov2015 if I cud hav got ....thanks to u again u changed my mind...
Dat was real eye-opener for all d pg aspirants. May be we should create a thread abt d institutions wer is no academics for dnb courses. Waste of time institutes for dnb. It wil help others to chose d right institute...
Really appreciate ur efforts
The institutes u have mentioned are also more or less same.... Practically this DNB in surgical specialities is crap... U don't get treated on par with MCh candidate whenever u apply for a job in any big hospital...I understand these 6yrs are new courses... But earlier also when it was 3yrs ss course the same hospital in which one get training will not absorb you as a junior consultant... The institutes prefer a MCh pass out over a DNB ss even if you have been trained at the same institute in which you are applying for a job... So for medical speciality DNB is a good thing but a big no for surgical sides!!
Posts: 1
Participants: 1
Read full topic