On Wednesday, Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist and president of Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc., discussed the potential dangers of beauty products. You can hear her interview with Leonard above.
Many of our listeners had questions for Monona, and while she could not get to all of them during the interview, she has answered most of them here.
Monona’s Answers to Comments and Questions
TO ALL: I was asked if there was anything left that we can use that is safe or safer. And here's what I think.
First, we certainly can try to avoid the handful of chemicals that clearly have been identified as bad actors such as formaldehyde, toluene, and dibutylphthalate.
But that usually leaves you with a product containing substitutes for those chemicals. If those chemicals have not been tested for long term hazards, it is impossible to know whether or not you have a safer product or not. You cannot assess risk without data.
So we need to then turn to another strategy which is to reduce or even eliminate exposure. Here's some methods:
1. Avoid using with products that are sprayed. Spraying releases large amounts of chemicals in forms that are easily inhaled.
2. Avoid using products that come in a fine powdered form. These can easily get airborne, are hard to control, and have the potential to get deep into the lungs.
3. Pay special attention to products that brag of being "nano" in particle size. Nanoparticle powders not only can get deeper into the lungs than normal particles. Some nanoparticles applied to the skin can go through the skin and into the body. The only nanoparticle that has had a significant amount of study and appears to be safe for use on normal skin are titanium dioxide nanoparticles in liquid make ups and sun screens. (Never use them on broken skin.) But a nano-sized face or bath powder should be rejected out of hand since in that form titanium dioxide is a NIOSH and IARC listed lung carcinogen.
4. Try to avoid using products containing solvents. If you must use solvents, provide ventilation. One open window, for example, is not much, if any, ventilation. Two open windows on opposite sides of a room with an exhaust fan in one of them will provide ventilation. So will special mechanical systems properly engineered to both bring air in and exhaust contaminated air out. It is not cheap.
5. Read those labels and google information about the toxicity of various ingredients from governmental, university or other reliable sources.* Sites like Skin Deep may help. Do not waste time reading the findings on any site that is also selling the products. And if you can't find anything much about the chemical, or if the only data you find is acute animal ingestion data, realize that the chemical is untested for chronic hazards and you are the potential lab rat.
6. And lastly, lets remember that none of the appearance enhancement chemicals are vital to your life. We complain that we are all too obsessed with our outward appearance. Yet most of us spend a lot of time conforming to that look anyway. Maybe it is really time to reexamine this need.
* NOTE: If you have some heavy duty science background, one of the sources you can exploit is EU or major US exporter's GHS SDSs (safety data sheets) on individual ingredients (not mixtures). At a glance, Section 11 on the SDS will tell you both which studies have been done and their findings and which tests have never been done.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
actsnyc@cs.com www.artscraftstheatersafety.org
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Answers to comments and questions:
Emmy
Great show. Thank you! I wanted to clarify. Are saying that Aloe Vera juice is carcinogenic?
May. 28 2015 09:47 AM
Emmy, I'm not saying it. I'm just agreeing with the evaluations of the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and two other agencies. It only applies to whole aloe juice and to the aloe latex. The gel has been run through a charcoal filter to remove the cancer-causing anthraquinones. The experts are especially concerned about the products selling the aloe juice as a health drink or as a laxative. Same with products made from goldenseal roots and stems.
Monona
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Mark Kutner from NYC
Monona,
Great presentation. Is 12.5 mg. of hydrocholorothiazide every day for hypertension really a cancer risk ? What do you recommend ?
May. 27 2015 04:42 PM
Mark, I didn't see any human dose-response calculation in the monograph. So the only thing I know is I take twice the dose you do so you are at half the risk that I am. I'm seeing my Doc in a couple of weeks and going to ask about a "substitute" an then I'll have to look that up. It never ends, right?
Monona
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Toni Roberts from New York City
Thank you, Monona Rossol, for such an enlightening presentation.
I wept with and for the young man who lost his mother to the hair dye(s) that slowly murdered her over the years as she labored in order to earn the money to feed and shelter him.
Your voice--one of many--is sounding a call of awakening to our individual and collective sleeping consciousness. There is still hope and time for humanity to pull itself back from the brink of self-annihilation.
You are a "Light" in the world; a true daughter of Gaia!
May. 27 2015 02:58 PM
Toni, Thanks for the kind words. They mean a lot to me.
Monona
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Marco from Fort Lee
I wonder about a compound sold as dietary supplement called Ascorbyl Palmitate, further labeled as "fat soluble vitamin C."
I occasionally take it when I am exposed to petroleum products and other chemicals, and it *seems to me* to cause an obvious exiting of (some??) of the nasty compounds fairly quickly and through a subsequent bowel movement.
I believe that I can clearly tell when these toxic chemicals exit my system!
Any thoughts about this compound as a way to mitigate damage, and clear the body of some types of compounds quickly, when exposure is unavoidable? How about taking absorbyl palmitate on a regular basis?
May. 27 2015 01:02 PM
Dear Marco,
I'm not sure about the advantages of taking this product over plain or ascorbic acid because it is quickly metabolized into ascorbic acid and the saturated fatty acid, palmitic acid. Maybe it is less acidic on your stomach before it breaks down? That might be helpful.
If you really can tell when toxic chemicals exit your system, you are unique among humans. And I'm not sure how this product helps remove petroleum products. The various petroleum derived chemicals each have unique metabolic pathways in the body and they break down and leave without assistance from this or any other product. I don't think a chemical with a laxative effect will significantly accelerate this process.
Monona
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dboy
The "Truth" needs to be "told".
May. 27 2015 01:02 PM
Dear dboy, Thanks. That means a lot to me.
Monona
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dboy
Dr Bronner's castile!
No BS and fair trade to boot!
Use it for everything!
May. 27 2015 01:00 PM
The simpler the soap, the better. And using a vegetable oil soap is best.
Monona
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BrooklynBen
Hello and thank you for this ALWAYS interesting topic.
One preservative I see all the time in food is Sodium Benzoate. I assume this is the Sodium salt of Benzoic acid.
On one hand, I'm always suspicious of aromatic hydrocarbons and Benzoic Acid seems like something I'd like to avoid. Also, it always says "less than 1/10th of 1 percent," so it must be toxic.
On the other hand, it has been used widely for years. Also, it always says "less than 1/10th of 1 percent," so it must be highly diluted.
What is your take, Wynona? [sic Monona]
May. 27 2015 12:45 PM
Dear Ben,
Of all the sources out there, Wiki does the best job of pulling together all of the bits of information, both good and bad, about sodium benzoate. Take a look. But who ever wrote it was clearly in favor of this chemical because they said there were no adverse effects in humans at 647-825 mg/kg doses like they were bragging. Well.......if that is the limit, it is very acutely toxic to humans. It would have to show no effect at 5000mg/kg to be classed as "nontoxic" in the US. But over on the left of that page is an LD50 for rats of 4100/mg/kg which is more reassuring.
Wiki even talks about the conversion to benzene when sodium benzoate is in the presence of ascorbic acid. I could spend a lot of time talking to you about this chemical, but go to Wiki because a lot of it is there.
Monona
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chris from Teaneck, NJ
1. Can you do a follow up on EPA, OSHA, NY State OSHA, NYS EPA and NYC DEP and Consumer protection enforcement budgets. Give us an idea of how effective the enforcement is among the different agencies. Please also discuss under funding.
2. How much would the average price of a mani/pedi increase if wage and safety regulations were followed ?
Thanks
Chris
May. 27 2015 12:44 PM
Chris, Interesting. What you have asked for is an economic and environmental assessment. Those take a dozen people and a couple of years to do properly. But the fast and dirty answer to your question comes in two major parts: 1) the budgets do not provide enough inspectors and staff and 2) the regulations are so weak that they don't accomplish much even when they are enforced.
The easiest example was the one I gave in the program where OSHA's director, David Michael's, said he has enough inspectors to visit each work place for 15 minutes once every 133 years. But the other half of OSHA's problem is their regulations. The average fine for an employer of a worker who is killed on the job because the employer failed to follow a regulation is $6000. So killing a worker has become just a cost of doing business in some industries such as the construction industry or small manufacturing plants.
For EPA, the problem with failure to test is both budgetary and the legislated lack of power EPA has in the Toxic Substances Control Act. This law allows EPA to require an industry to test a chemical if EPA can prove (usually to a court) that the untested chemical poses a "significant risk!" How do you assess a risk in the absence of any data? That would be funny if it was not part of what is doing us all dirt. So of the 70,000 chemicals over which they have jurisdiction, they have managed to get some testing done on about 560. But EPA tests are not "people" tests as the rule. They are often more concerned about the fate of the chemical in the environment. So very little chronic hazard testing is done by EPA.
As for the NYC and NYS organizations, well.....I don't see them doing squat. I work all over the US. There are only two states I haven't work in. And every state has a kind of regulatory "personality." Here in NYC in particular, the rules are just ignored and flaunted alarmingly. For example, what you call the NY State OSHA is usually called PESH and it is the OSHA for public employees like school teachers. I deal with teachers. I have never met one that has been OSHA trained--as required by PESH--in hazard communication. They are clueless about the chemical hazards of their art materials or their home economics products. PESh is not enforcing their own laws.
You shouldn't have asked this question because I could go on all day, but you get the idea.
Monona
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Ali from manhattan
I know it's a broad question, but can you PLEASE point those of us who are eager to minimize our exposure (and our children's) to harmful chemicals towards some guidance on the matter besides eating organic, using products we have investigated as omitting several known carcinogens, using a proper water filtration system, and working towards legislative change?
thanks!
May. 27 2015 12:44 PM
Ali, I have written something at the beginning of this list to answer part of what you are asking. But for children in particular, the strategy has to be to concentrate on their life styles. Just how important is it to have gaudy fingernails, tattoos, piercings, or bright green hair? If we can get the kids to focus on things other than their appearance, they won't need the chemicals used in the "appearance enhancement industry."
Filtering your water even with a Britta will help. If you go to more elaborate systems the results can be even better. And that is a very good idea. Especially in NYC where so much of the water is going though old lead pipes.
Legislation must be done at the state levels. The federal government is simply no longer functioning. I have no power to organize to do this, but I will certainly help and support anyone who wants to try. California, Massachusetts, Vermont and several other states have passed laws banning some of the known toxic chemicals. That's a start. But as I pointed out in the broadcast, if this is not coupled with a rule requiring testing of the substitute chemicals, we are going nowhere with this.
Read the post that the top of this list for more ideas.
Monona
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Alix Clyburn
Thank you for such an enlightening yet depressing show. So I have an "appearance enhancement" quesiton. How do I color my resistant gray hair without risking cancer? I have dark hair. (Except for these unwelcome grays...)
May. 27 2015 12:44 PM
Alix, I like gray hair, even my own. So I'm not the one to ask. I can tell you the answer is NOT Grecian Formula. This product is the only legal use of lead acetate, a skin-absorbing lead compound.
There are supposed to be some new dyes that are not the old cancer-causing ones. If you find a product you want to use, e-mail me the chemical name of that dye. I'll look up its structure and give you my opinion. Meanwhile, think "distinguished."
Monona
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emjayay
Hair loss lady: Seriously, it hasn't occurred to you to go to a doctor? Try a dermatologist. Hair loss can be the result of hormonal changes. But mostly it is thought to be auto-immune and in some cases related to stress. It is highly unlikely that it is a shampoo, unless accompanied by irritation.
Meanwhile, if you suspect the shampoo - why not, um, do something about it? One inexpensive alternative is to use Dove unscented soap and body wash everywhere including your hair. Two drugstore chains also have cheaper house brand clones for the body wash. It does not suggest it as a shampoo, but you may have noticed that many body washes do, and the ingredients are about the same as shampoo.
May. 27 2015 12:42 PM
Emjayjay, Nice advice. I agree. In fact the advice about using plain old soap for most uses is so sensible.
Monona
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Katie
Any recommendations for make up brands that aren't loaded with untested chemicals? Is organic makeup a safer way to go, or does that have its issues as well?
May. 27 2015 12:42 PM
Katie, I almost never recommend any brand. By the time I've investigated the ingredients and recommended it, they change their formulas. So I stick to talking about ingredients. And the word "organic" has so many definitions and meanings. It depends on who is certifying the product is organic and what criteria they are using.
Also go to the general comments I wrote at the beginning of this list for information on titanium dioxide in makeup.
Monona
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Jeneba from Brooklyn
Mosquitos hate clove oil... Hope this isn't carcinogenic because I spray it all over my body.... I think this is one of THE scariest shows I have ever experienced! Thanks, (I think).
May. 27 2015 12:39 PM
Jeneba, You must smell wonderful. The reason they usually sell pure clove oil in a very tiny bottle is that it is extraordinarily acutely toxic by ingestion. I don't think there is much data on exposure by skin contact except that about 1.5% of the population is estimated to be allergic to it. Spraying it and inhaling some of the spray is probably a good way to develop an allergy to it. So you just might be the lab rat for this unusual use. If you survive, let us know.
Monona
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wendy from manhattan
what about perfume and cologne?
May. 27 2015 12:38 PM
Wendy, Fragrances are so often allergens. Some perfumes also contain the phthalates we were talking about. Since it is not a necessary use of a chemical, is best to either eliminate them or use them very sparingly.
Monona
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Sarah
Party beads! the plastic colored bead necklaces used as party favors - they smell very strong and toxic, got a high from smelling them
May. 27 2015 12:34 PM
Sarah. I've never seen them. I have no idea what they are made of so I can't comment. If you find out more about them, I'd be interested in looking into it.
Monona
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The Truth from Rebekkah!
LIFE is a health hazard, better we discuss what Is NOT hazardous!!
I mean NOW you tell us about black hair dye??!!
May. 27 2015 12:34 PM
Ah, Rebekkah, you would be amazed at how many people don't know about the darker hair dyes. And there's some lighter ones as well. And you are right. No matter what we do to protect ourselves, none of us are getting out of here alive.
Monona
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Rob from Flemington NJ
Disturbing how industry and lobbying keeps consumers ignorant and exposed...SAN Trimer, as discussed in Dan Fagin's Toms River, and how it was lobby to be designated "non-carcinogenic" is deeply troubling...
May. 27 2015 12:34 PM
Rob, I think you are referring to the utterly amazing story of the dye industry in Toms River. If you know this story, you know exactly what I'm talking about. This same story is being repeated over and over in different areas of the country and with different people being harmed by different chemicals. The one player in the story is always the same--big industry.
Monona
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sophia
Has Monona looked into whether TTIP cause Europeans to lower their safety standards?
May. 27 2015 12:33 PM
Sophia, VERY GOOD QUESTION! We will have to see. Almost 2 million EU petitioners are protesting against this agreement. I don't know which way is going to go in the end, but the US is just trying to hurl a wrench into their safety regulations and GMO rules.
Monona
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Michelle from Brooklyn
Let's talk about mercury fillings! I am mortified about getting my removed.
May. 27 2015 12:30 PM
Michelle, Don't be mortified and don't get them removed. It's simple. Some things are just better to leave alone. Stay away from certain fish and your mercury levels will be as low as most people's. And stop and think about the exposure you get when those fillings are all being drilled out. And what are they going to replace them with? Some two-component plastic material that has an active chemical monomer in it.
Nah, sit back, unmortify, and spend that money on something you really want.
Monona
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dboy
..."why"?!?!?
Because there are 94...MILLION!!
It's IMPOSSIBLE to regulate that many things of ANY kind!
May. 27 2015 12:28 PM
Dboy, You got it. And it is now over 98,100,000 chemicals. 29 million are available for catalog purchase and nobody knows whose buying what and where it is all going. So we have to concentrate on requiring industry to register the chemicals they are intending to use in products they sell us and then require toxicity testing of many of them. The template for this regulation is already in existence. Google REACH regulations in the EU.
Monona
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dboy
All the costs of these narcissistic indulgences need to be factored into the price; environment, mitigation, labor etc... ALL of it!
A "manu-pedi" should probably be around $100!
May. 27 2015 12:24 PM
Dboy, I wouldn't even touch any stranger's foot for $100. They should be paid very well, indeed.
Monona
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Truth & Beauty from Brooklyn
You talk about all the chemicals, but just go down the cosmetic aisle of any drug store and see the number of companies and variety of colors of the nail polish. There's no escaping it.
What drives me crazy, in addition to all the toxic chemicals in the products themselves, is that so much of the packaging - packages as well as the compacts, mascara tubes and brushes, etc. - is not biodegradable. And, I think you spoke at another time about all the little plastic balls in the scrubs. I try to use only the ones with ground walnut shells, but there is so much about the cosmetic industry that is just plain wrong. But considering the customers - like 51% of the population - good luck trying to fix this.
May. 27 2015 12:24 PM
T & B, Yes, I know. Not likely it will be fixed in the short time I have left on this planet. But one has to take a swing at it anyway. There's a little Don Quixote in all of us.
Monona
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dboy
Where does all this crap go when it's disposed of at a nail salon??
May. 27 2015 12:18 PM
Dboy, Nice question. We want to ventilated it all out of the salon and to the outside air. But in NYC, that "outside" can be right into some poor slob's window. So the ventilation has to be well designed.
Monona
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CR from Trystate
Lenny - so GIGGLY! Have you been sniffing nail polish remover?!?
May. 27 2015 12:15 PM
CR, We were both pretty giggly. We have a good time talking. Or maybe we drank too much strong coffee. I'll leave the diagnosis to you.
Monona