From Wikileaks: The ZIP archive presents the video and transcript of an investigative report into “est” (Erhard Seminars Training) guru Werner Erhard by CBS News, originally broadcast on the program 60 Minutes on March 3, 1991.
Both, video and transcript, have been published at various points in time, but are not publically available anymore due to legal threats against publishers from Werner Erhard.
The material contains interviews with friends, business associates and family of Werner Erhard making serious claims against him. Erhard is accused by family members of beating his wife and children, and raping a daughter, while still giving seminars on how to have relationships that work. The story also includes interviews with two former staff members of Werner Erhard: Wendy Drucker (a senior manager) and Dr. Bob Larzelere (head of Erhard’s counseling staff).
The current incarnation of the est training is now known as Landmark Education, with its course the Landmark Forum. Landmark Education is run by CEO Harry Rosenberg, who is Werner Erhard’s brother, and General Counsel and Chairman of the Board of Directors Art Schreiber, who has acted as Werner Erhard’s lawyer. Werner Erhard’s sister Joan Rosenberg also sits on the Board of Directors of Landmark Education.
The likely audience for this material includes researchers of the “est” and Landmark Education / Landmark Forum movement – including psychotherapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists, as well as those researching the controversial life of Werner Erhard. The audience also includes potential clients/customers of the company Landmark Education – whose course the Landmark Forum was originally developed by Werner Erhard as the “est training”.
The material can be verified as the original CBS broadcast on 60 Minutes of March 3, 1991. The episode of 60 Minutes is Program # 2325.
Additionally, Cult expert Rick Ross of The Ross Institute Internet Archives for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and Movements maintains a large database on Landmark Education[1], est[2], and The Forum[3], and his attorneys are also quite educated as to the organization’s methods[4].
60 Minutes, broadcast on Werner Erhard
60 Minutes logo, with text: Morley Safer, Mike Wallace, Ed Bradley, Harry Reasoner, Steve Kroft, Meredith Vieira
CBS/March 3, 1991
Produced by David Gelber
Introduction
WERNER ERHARD (lecture clip)
I didn’t arrive at the opportunity to make the world work for everyone by figuring out how to do it!
WENDY DRUCKER
We were told to surrender to him as “source”. I think that’s idolatry.
DR. BOB LARZELERE
“I’m god.”
ED BRADLEY
I beg your pardon?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
“I am god.” He could, he did say sometimes in staff meetings.
DAWN DAMAS
And he beats his wife, and he beats his children, and rapes a daughter – and then he goes and tells people how to have marvelous relationships. I’m sorry, that’s what I have against Werner Erhard.
60 MINUTES LOGO.
I’m Morley Safer. I’m Harry Reasoner. I’m Ed Bradley. I’m Steve Kroft. I’m Meredith Vieira. I’m Mike Wallace.
MIKE WALLACE
Those stories and Andy Rooney tonight on “60 Minutes.” First a brief update on today’s meeting in the Gulf. General Norman Schwarzkopf and his coalition colleagues sat down in a tent in Southern Iraq today, and laid down the terms for a cease-fire to his opposite members from the Iraqi military. Word from the meeting has it that faced with the facts in the field, the Iraqis agreed to all of the coalition’s conditions. First of all a swift exchange of prisoners of war on both sides. And according to the Iraqi ambassador to the U.N., ten allied P.O.W.s, six of them American including an American woman, have already been released. Meantime four of our CBS News colleagues were freed by the Iraqis yesterday, and we’ll hear from them in a minute.
60 MINUTES LOGO.
WERNER ERHARD – PRODUCED BY DAVID GELBER
ED BRADLEY
Since the 1970s some seven-hundred-thousand people have signed up for a self-improvement called “est”, or as it’s now called “The Forum.” Est was the brainchild of a former used-car salesman named Jack Rosenberg. Back in the sixties, Rosenberg deserted his wife and four children in Philadelphia, changed his name to Werner Hans Erhard, and moved to California where he started another family, and, came up with the idea for est. In a nutshell, Erhard’s message was this: If you are in a rut, the problem isn’t your parents, your boss or the system, it’s you. Take responsibility, Erhard said, and you can transform your life overnight. Who was the role model, the living example of what the est Training could do? Who else but Werner Erhard, a man some of his employees say, thought of himself, as god.
WERNER ERHARD (lecture clip)
I didn’t arrive at the opportunity to make the world work for everyone by figuring out how to do it! Don’t you get that nothing transformational occurs that way!
ED BRADLEY
Of course there were skeptics who wondered how a salesman with a checkered past and no formal education past high-school could transform people’s lives. But thousands believed they did benefit from Erhard’s message. One of them was emmy-winning actress, Valerie Harper.
VALERIE HARPER (Emmy acceptance speech)
Thank you for loving Rhoda. And personal, um, personal thanks, a very private ones, to someone who has profoundly influenced my life, uh Werner Erhard. Thank you, and good night.
ED BRADLEY
Erhard was so popular in Hollywood that someone once suggested a studio be renamed: “Werner Brothers.” Erhard’s empire grew to include a high-powered corporate consulting business that charges some of the biggest companies in America forty-thousand dollars a year, for each executive it trains.
WERNER ERHARD (clip lecturing to executives)
Organizations don’t work because people don’t know, that the job, in an organization, is ninety-nine bull-(bleeped).
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Within his own organization, Erhard attracted an inner circle of people who were devoted to him. Wendy Drucker was a top manager who worked closely with Erhard for nine years.
ED BRADLEY
Did it feel like a cult to you?
WENDY DRUCKER
I would never have believed that I, could be a person who would wind up in a cult. I thought that those were the people down at the airport, you know with the tambourines. And yet, certainly mind control was involved. And if that’s what cults do, and they set up a leader to be bigger than anybody else, a god-like figure, I would say yes, that was true in the organization.
ED BRADLEY
Did he encourage you folks to think of him as something – more than an ordinary man?
WENDY DRUCKER
Absolutely. Absolutely. We were told to surrender to him as “source.” I think that’s idolatry.
ED BRADLEY
Did he ever say things like that to you, “I am the source.” ?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
Oh yes, to the whole staff. At staff meetings, sure. “I am the source.”
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Dr. Bob Larzelere was the head of Erhard’s counseling staff for seven years during the 1970s.
DR. BOB LARZELERE
Now you could interpret that as “I am the source of est.”, which he of course he was, he also made it clear that it was a little more than that from time to time.
ED BRADLEY
How so?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
“I am god.”
ED BRADLEY
I beg your pardon?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
“I am god.” He could, he had, he did say sometimes in staff meetings. I can’t document this, and you know I took this, I said I would do this interview so long as this wasn’t about punishing Werner and I’m not about punishing Werner – what I’m trying to point out is – my willingness, my absolute willingness to become his soldier, the person who would do whatever he asked for his approval, for his love. That’s how desperate I was. And didn’t really know it then.
ED BRADLEY
But you say he actually said: “I am god.” ? He didn’t say: “I’m like god.”, or “I’m god-like.” ?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
I would not sign a statement saying that he said exactly that – it was the implication: “I am source.”, and you know, he mentioned, the message was: “I am god.”
WENDY DRUCKER
This was not like, being an employee. This was like being, a servant, or a devotee.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Was Erhard worthy of devotion? After all, he freely admitted he’d once deserted his wife and children. But then, the story went, by practicing what he preached, he turned his life around. He reconciled with his first family after thirteen years, and brought them to San Francisco. In est publications, Erhard appeared to be a caring father for all of his children. One brochure featured a loving portrait of Erhard with his second wife, Ellen. One of the selling points for est and The Forum has been: If Erhard’s could turn his own life around, then The Forum could turn yours around too.
LARRY KING (clip from Larry King Live)
What, is “The Forum” ?
WERNER ERHARD
It’s a program of inquiry into the things that concern people on a very everyday basis. Like – breaking through the ordinary barriers that just go along with children and your relationship with your children at certain ages.
ED BRADLEY
And what about his relationship with his own children?
CELESTE ERHARD
I have been afraid, deeply afraid of my father my whole life. My whole life.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Celeste Erhard is Werner Erhard’s oldest daughter from his second marriage.
CELESTE ERHARD (crying)
It’s funny because – you almost feel stupid, that you’re afraid of him, but – he’s a terrifying man, he can be very terrifying.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Just how terrifying? Dawn Damas was the family’s governess and is still a close friend. She says she saw Erhard assault his son St. John, or “sinjin” as he’s called, when the boy was only twelve.
DAWN DAMAS
He started to ask St. John about school and started to notice St. John’s grades, and got livid, and went over to Sinjin and started to slap him and hit him, and picked him up and threw him on the ground and started to kick him – in front of everybody and nobody moved, everyone was paralyzed. Um, and then said to St. John: “If you ever get grades like this again, I’ll break both of your legs with a baseball bat.”
ED BRADLEY
And no one said a word? No one made a move to stop him?
DAWN DAMAS
No. Which is um, hard for me to believe except that I was there and I didn’t either.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Werner Erhard declined to talk to “60 Minutes”, but he did speak to reporter John Hubner of the San Jose Mercury News, for an article in WEST, the paper’s Sunday magazine. In the audio-taped interview, Erhard flatly denied he ever hit Sinjin.
WERNER ERHARD (audio-taped interview)
I hit Sinjin?
JOHN HUBNER
Not ever around in a family meeting?
WERNER ERHARD
Never, ever ever! It is not one … never. Never, ever struck one of my children, not any one of them, ever.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
But Erhard’s daughter Adair says, she saw it.
ADAIR ERHARD
My dad took, he freaked out, he pushed him back on the chair, he fell over. At this point you know my brother was so petrified he actually peed in his pants. Um, you know he’s down on the floor, he’s kicking him, he’s hitting him.
ED BRADLEY
Your father is kicking and hitting him?
ADAIR ERHARD
Mm, hm. You know, for a bad grade.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Sinjin, who is now twenty-three, didn’t want to speak on camera, but he told us the beating did take place, and – that he wasn’t the only family member to be a victim of Werner’s abuse. His mother was too. Erhard didn’t live with his family. But once a month or so he would summon his wife and children to come here to his San Francisco headquarters for a meeting attended by his inner circle. Erhard’s daughter Adair recalls a time about thirteen years ago, when, at one of those meetings, he launched into a jealous rage toward his wife.
ADAIR ERHARD
He accused her of having an affair with this man, which was totally untrue. At one point someone picked up a statue and hit her over the head. Um, you know my dad constantly saying: “What aren’t you saying, what aren’t you saying?”.
ED BRADLEY
And you saw your mom physically attacked, by your father and others?
ADAIR ERHARD
Mm, hmm. Yeah, he himself also got up and, while she was on the floor, and kicked her a number of times.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
The assault on Ellen Erhard, her daughters say, went on for two nights.
ED BRADLEY
Did you try to stop them?
CELESTE ERHARD
At one point, on the second night, I did stand up and say: “Please, you’re killing her, you’re killing her.” I mean, my mother was blue, her face was blue, she had, like drool coming out of the side of her mouth. She was dying. She was, you know, suffocating. And all he said to me was: “Sit down, or you’ll get more of the same.” And that is a direct quote, I remember every word. And that’s all he said. And I sat down.
ADAIR ERHARD
She was strangled literally. She turned blue, there was spit running out of the side of her mouth, um –
ED BRADLEY
Strangled, choked her?
ADAIR ERHARD
Mmm, hmm.
ED BRADLEY
Who?
ADAIR ERHARD
This consultant, was the man who was doing the actual choking.
ED BRADLEY
And he worked for your father?
ADAIR ERHARD
Yes.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Bob Larzelere is the one who choked Ellen Erhard.
DR. BOB LARZELERE
And finally he said: “Somebody’s got to volunteer, to hurt Ellen, to punish her, and make her talk, and make her confess.” And nobody did, until I thought, oh my god, this is an opportunity for me, finally, to get Werner’s total approval. Now I can be a real soldier for him, now I can make him, proud of me, now I can get him to smile at me. Now I won’t have to be afraid of him anymore. So I volunteered.
ED BRADLEY
Why did you choke her?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
To scare her into confessing. It’s like, you know why do people torture other people, to get the truth.
ED BRADLEY
What did he say? Did he say: “Bob, you’re going too far.” ?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
No. No, he didn’t. See he didn’t stop. No. No, I was doing what he wanted me to do. He didn’t try to stop. He didn’t try to stop me I mean, at all.
ED BRADLEY
Today, what would you say to her?
DR. BOB LARZELERE
That it was a despicable thing to do. And it took me days to realize it. Afterward. When I began to let myself feel again. It was, my god, it was like a nightmare. That I could have, gone that far, with wanting to please, wanting to get approval from, wanting to get love from another human being, to do that.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
According to several witnesses, that ordeal didn’t end Ellen’s punishment. Her daughters say Erhard wouldn’t allow her to live with them for two years. And that’s not all.
ADAIR ERHARD
She had to come into our house. And, and, be like the maid, scrub the floors. And we had to watch this, and my dad made her do these things.
ED BRADLEY
She didn’t live with you for two years?
ADAIR ERHARD
Well, you know, she didn’t live with us for two years, but I saw her, like when she came in to clean the house, but we weren’t allowed to speak with her.
ED BRADLEY
So she moves out of your house, per your father’s instructions –
ADAIR ERHARD
Mm, hmm.
ED BRADLEY
But she comes back to clean?
ADAIR ERHARD
Mm, hmm. You know, he, whatever he said, that she should do, she had to do. And that was part of the instructions. Yeah, you have to be a maid for your house.
ED BRADLEY
And what would you do then?
ADAIR ERHARD
(Sigh). I don’t even remember, I just – It’s like I wanted to – say something so bad, or just do something about it, and there’s, it’s just so petrified all the time and there’s just no way I could be okay with myself to, to tell anybody or to do anything about what was going on.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
At about the same time this was going on, Erhard was busy teaching thousands how to improve their relationships. As for his daughters’ accusations of how he treated his wife back then, Erhard says, it never happened.
WERNER ERHARD (audio-taped interview)
Essentially nonsense. Ellen was never a maid. Ellen was my wife, and I always treated her like my wife.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Ellen Erhard divorced her husband two years ago. As part of the divorce settlement, she’s agreed not to talk publicly about their marriage.
ED BRADLEY
Does your mother know that you’re talking to us?
ADAIR ERHARD
Yeah, um. Before we left tonight I talked to her, and she’s just, you know, she said: “I can’t thank you enough for doing this. For saying these things that need to be said.” And I know that she wishes she could do the same.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Deborah Rosenberg is one of Erhard’s daughters, from his first marriage. She’s never spoken publicly about her father before, but she told us that her father sexually abused her.
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
I don’t have a problem saying that it happened. I don’t like describing, it. Um, but I don’t have a problem admitting that he molested me.
ED BRADLEY
How old were you?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
I was sixteen.
ED BRADLEY
Has your father ever sexually abused any of your siblings?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Yes. And it runs from, I don’t know, maybe you want to call it pornography all the way to rape.
ED BRADLEY
Rape?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Yes.
ED BRADLEY
What happened?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Um, I wasn’t there. But I believe my sister when she says that my father raped her.
ED BRADLEY
She told you what happened?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Yes.
ED BRADLEY
And what did she say happened?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
She says that they were on a trip together, and um, they had come back after dinner and he had a very large suite and um, they were reading a magazine together and – you know I’d rather not go specifically into, you know the details, but, um, he forcibly had sexual intercourse with her.
ED BRADLEY
This is incest, you’re –
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Yes, I know that.
ED BRADLEY, VOICE-OVER
Deborah says her sister about eleven years ago while she was in her early twenties. In his taped interview, Erhard brought up the rape issue, and said it never happened.
WERNER ERHARD (audio-taped interview, Ed Bradley playing section of audio-tape in front of Deborah Rosenberg)
Just plain not true. Just plain not true. And anybody who would say something it has got to be sick. Uh.
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Um, that sounds like a typical response. Um. What he did say when I confronted him about it was that there had been sexual intercourse, and that it had been a nurturing experience for my sister.
ED BRADLEY
He admitted it?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
He admitted that there was sexual intercourse, and that it was a nurturing experience. He said that “I did not rape her.”
ED BRADLEY
You’re very clear on this?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Yes.
ED BRADLEY
So he’s saying that she consented?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Yes.
ED BRADLEY
Have you talked with her about this?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
Oh, yeah. Extensively.
ED BRADLEY
And –
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
It was not a nurturing experience for her. And she’s had to have a lot of therapy about that.
ED BRADLEY
She didn’t consent?
DEBORAH ROSENBERG
No she didn’t.
ED BRADLEY
They said some pretty terrible things about their father.
DAWN DAMAS
They said some true things about their father that are terrible.
ED BRADLEY
What do you have against this man?
DAWN DAMAS
There’s something about the fact that he is still out there doing all this and people still believe in him. This man still gets people sitting in an audience looking up at him, believing, that what he says is just so wonderful.
WERNER ERHARD (clip, lecturing to audience)
I can see for myself, that the world can work for everyone.
DAWN DAMAS
And this man does relationships on seminars, and he beats his wife and beats his children and rapes a daughter, and then he goes and tells people how to have marvelous relationships.
ED BRADLEY
Why are you going against him now, in such a public forum?
CELESTE ERHARD
I kept thinking – that he would be a father, I kept thinking that when he got older, he’d want children, and he’d want his daughters. I just, I, I really thought that. You know that maybe he’d get wiser with age and he’d regret what he’d done, but um, he didn’t.
ED BRADLEY
This week, Erhard’s lawyers sent us affidavits from Erhard’s sister and brother and from a few of his close associates disputing some of the stories we heard from his children and denying that Erhard ever abused his wife. And we also heard from Erhard. He sent us a statement, which said simply: “There is only one appropriate response to these allegations, to heal and restore my family. And that is what I will do. To respond to the accusations at this time, would only further publicly exploit my family, and there has already been enough of that.” He has also presumably had enough of his seventy-million dollar a year business. A few weeks ago he sold it to a group of his employees.
WIKILEAKS: Landmark education” is a world-wide personal transformation business-cult that evolved out of the discredited “Est”.
The video report to which this transcript pertains was uploaded to YouTube, the Internet Archive, and Google video, but which has been subsequently removed. Landmark Education has previously falsely claimed copyright over this video, which the company did not produce, in a blatant abuse of the US DMCA. The Electronic Frontier Foundation successfully defended the Internet Archive and an anonymous individual against Landmark Education. See Landmark v. Internet Archive.
This file is important because it shows psychiatrists, psychologists, legal experts, politicians, and experts on cults discussing the dangers of Landmark Education and its course the Landmark Forum. Landmark Forum is the successor course to the ‘est training’ developed by guru Werner Erhard. Landmark Education is run by CEO Harry Rosenberg, who is Werner Erhard’s brother, and General Counsel and Chairman of the Board of Directors Art Schreiber, who has acted as Werner Erhard’s lawyer. Werner Erhard’s sister Joan Rosenberg also sits on the Board of Directors of Landmark Education.
The likely audience for this material includes researchers of the “est” and Landmark Education / Landmark Forum movement – including psychotherapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists, as well as those researching the controversial life of Werner Erhard. The audience also includes potential clients/customers of the company Landmark Education – who may not be aware of some of the controversial things that go on inside the course itself. The video report had a huge impact in France – and Landmark Education pulled out all of its operations from France shortly after the program broadcast in 2004, after being investigated by the French government for labor violations (Landmark Education has also been investigated in the United States for labor violations, see US Department of Labor investigation into Landmark Education).
The material it was originally broadcast on the Pieces a Conviction program on France 3 on May 24, 2004.
Additionally, cult expert Rick Ross of The Ross Institute for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and Movements maintains a large database on Landmark Education[1], est[2], and The Forum[3], and his attorneys are also quite educated as to the organization’s methods[4]. The Electronic Frontier Foundation can also be contacted about the attempts of Landmark Education to remove the video from the Internet through abuse of the DMCA (Landmark and the Internet Archive).
Landmark Education currently appears to be on another campaign of attempting to remove all critical material and news videos about its company and its founder Werner Erhard.
French Documentary Transcript: “Voyage to the Land of the New Gurus”
Aired to approximately 1.5 million viewers in France
France 3 Pieces a Conviction “Incriminating Evidence”/May 24, 2004
Directed by Karima Tabti
HOST ELISE LUCET
Good evening. Tonight, a special edition of “Incriminating Evidence.” An unprecedented investigation of the secret world of the new merchants of happiness.
In a society that’s losing its bearings, there are more and more of them, coaches promising to improve your performance, live better with others. We are going to dive into the heart of one of those companies. It never opens up to television cameras. Maybe this is what they don’t want you to find out.
CUT TO LANDMARK FORUM LEADER ALAIN ROTH, LEADING SEMINAR
Let the fear enter your body, your breathing, your gut.
NARRATOR
This is a company with surprising methods. 80 people closed up in a big hotel for 3 days, subject to the whims of one man.
CUT TO ALAIN ROTH
(coaching a woman in The Forum)
You’re an asshole.
WOMAN
Yes I’m an asshole, but I love her.
ALAIN ROTH
It’s serious. No, you don’t love her! You love yourself!
NARRATOR
Try to imagine. We made our preparations in utter secrecy. With this miniature camera and high-tech equipment, we got inside this company. It’s called Landmark Education. Started in America, it’s in 26 countries. At least 700,000 people have been seduced by it.
CUT TO ANONYMOUS LANDMARK PARTICIPANT
They made me feel I was valued, exceptional. I would open a four-lane highway in my life.
NARRATOR
But it’s not harmless, at least that’s what French authorities think. Since 1995, Landmark Education has actually been considered a sect.
CUT TO PSYCHIATRIST JEAN-MARIE ABGRALL
These guys aren’t trained, as if tomorrow you set up shop as a psychotherapist. That’s what’s shocking.
NARRATOR
Improving your life, happiness, reconciling with loved ones. Everyone wants that. This company understands that well. But in the voyage through life, no one walks away unscathed.
CUT TO COUPLE SITTING AT DINING TABLE, WIFE:
Anyone could be taken in. Anyone could be taken in by this.
HOST ELISE LUCET
In a few moments, we’ll go inside Landmark Education’s world. Or rather, we’ll infiltrate this organization. The images you’ll see are sometimes shocking, Some of the people you’ll see are mistreated, destabilized. They crack. We’ll talk with our guests: lawyers, experts in brainwashing and sects, but also with men and women like you and me, who once thought Landmark Education could help them feel better. But first, the facts. Here we begin our unique voyage.
FIRST DAY AT LANDMARK
NARRATOR
On a cold morning in December, we were given an appointment in a three-star hotel in Paris. Inside, a company is offering a 3 day personal development workshop in exchange for 395 euros. Disguised as an unemployed man looking for direction, we arrived that morning equipped with hidden cameras. We are immediately directed by several people…wearing name tags bearing their first names, toward a meeting room. The first test on the road to personal development is signing a document that’s referred to here as a contract. Six pages, actually written by Landmark Education, the real organizer behind this big working weekend called The Forum. This is what we can read to you from it.
VOICEOVER, READING EXCERPTS, LANDMARK FORUM CONTRACT
Each client certifies that he/she will take responsibility for any physical or psychological damage or emotional disturbances that may occur during or after The Forum. Each client also agrees that Landmark Education is free and clear of any liability.
NARRATOR
And an even more unsettling question:
VOICEOVER, READING CONTRACT
Have you ever been hospitalized for psychiatric care or mental problems?
NARRATOR
If the answer is yes, the document recommends not taking part in The Forum. Once this matter is taken care of, the workshop can begin. In a room completely cut off from the outside world, over 80 people will spend 72 hours together. The rules are strict: no note-taking, no leaving without permission, and only one meal per day. The staging is exact. Facing the audience is a director’s chair. On this chair is a man. His name is Alain Roth. He calls himself a coach. He’s actually the director of Landmark Education in France. On the first day, he explains the agenda to us, which is called The Forum.
LANDMARK FORUM LEADER ALAIN ROTH
The Landmark Forum is a place, for 3 days, for you to fuck with the course, be unreasonable, do the things that you have never done, and abandon all your reasons and explanations for not doing it. Are you interested to win a game called: “You bust out and nothing’s the same” ? Is that possible? It is. And there are things that produce these results: Technology itself. We invented a technology — a conversation that literally revolutionizes what is possible. If you do The Forum as it is meant, there’s a 99.99% chance it will work for you. If you do it your own way, I can’t guarantee it.
NARRATOR
A life transformed in 3 and a half days. A life where everything becomes possible. In these first three hours, Alain Roth never lacks for arguments to lure in his audience. First break. A chance to find people who’ve come here to become coaches in their daily lives.
FORUM PARTICIPANT 1, MAN
What I want is to succeed in selling myself, to say OK, this is what I want to do, this is what I’m doing. A sort of recognition.
NARRATOR
More confidence in yourself?
FORUM PARTICIPANT 1, MAN
Yeah.
FORUM PARTICIPANT 2, MAN
For me it’s about knowing if I make good decisions at the right time. I don’t always feel like I make good decisions.
FORUM PARTICIPANT 1, MAN
It’s funny because I’m also wondering – Is Landmark a sect?
FORUM PARTICIPANT 2, MAN
Yes, I asked myself the same question.
FORUM PARTICIPANT 1, MAN
Where are we?
NARRATOR
Among the participants, doubt already exists. The question has already been asked. A chance to continue forming an opinion, because everyone is to return to their seats. Now, they tell us, is when the course really begins. In the first exercise, everyone is asked to take the floor to divulge their personal problems to the audience. Daniele is the first to give it a try. Alain Roth invited her to confide to the attendees. Her troubles: she doesn’t get along well with her daughter.
DANIELE, FORUM PARTICIPANT, AT MICROPHONE
My daughter, right now, when everything could be going well, right now, what I’ve told her applies: “You can’t trust men.” So, she’s with a man who’s no good for her, and I can’t stand him.
ALAIN ROTH
What’s this? She’s going out with a man you’re not in love with?
DANIELE
Well, I control her since, in any case…
ALAIN ROTH
You are right that men…
DANIELE
that men cannot be trusted.
ALAIN ROTH
Exactly.
DANIELE
She’s heard that all her life. She was barely born when it was: “They’re all bastards.” I’ve always made sure to – secretly – to make her believe that men are difficult.
ALAIN ROTH
So you do that subtly. You release the poison slowly.
DANIELE
I realize that she’s totally taken it in…
ALAIN ROTH
You used your daughter to show your point of view. You ruined her life. It must be hard to look in the mirror. That’s the cost, huh? And what’s more, you claim you love her. Are you kidding or what?
DANIELE
I love her. I warned her about it.
ALAIN ROTH
You’re getting your revenge by living through her. You’re an asshole. Yeah.
DANIELE
No, no. She…
ALAIN ROTH
Wait. You have to wake up a little and start to accept how much of an asshole you are. Really. And stop pretending otherwise. What’s controlling your life is a mechanism that’s about destroying your daughter’s happiness to get your revenge on men. And you tell yourself, you tell yourself you love her. It’s a disgrace!
DANIELE
Yes, I’m an asshole. But I love her.
ALAIN ROTH
It’s serious. No, you don’t love her. You love yourself! No, no, no. You are a…
DANIELE
I sacrificed myself for her.
ALAIN ROTH
No, you didn’t sacrifice yourself. You sacrificed her for you!
NARRATOR
This public humiliation has now been going on for 30 minutes. Under the violent words, Daniele cracks.
ALAIN ROTH
You spend your life whining. It’s not a pretty sight: “Boo, hoo, hoo. I’m not happy.” At the same time, you assassinate everyone. Seriously, there are limits.
DANIELE (crying)
I admit, I admit that I managed to –
ALAIN ROTH
You’re the one who did it!
DANIELE
I admit that I managed to convince her that men are jerks –
ALAIN ROTH
No. To destroy her romantic life!
DANIELE
Yes.
ALAIN ROTH
Bravo! And to make her feel guilty. Bravo! So don’t be indecent and say you love her.
DANIELE
But since I didn’t want her to –
ALAIN ROTH
You claim you want her to be happy. You make it so she’s unhappy. It’s a racket. It’s inauthentic.
DANIELE
But she’s in a relationship and needs to –
ALAIN ROTH
And now you want her to get away from this guy who you got her together with. Or some other guy, or to make it so she isn’t with any others. You have destroyed what is possible in her life. You! And you have the indecency to say you love her.
DANIELE
I admit it. Yes, I admit it. But what do I do about it?
ALAIN ROTH
Stop feeling guilty, to begin with.
NARRATOR
50 minutes later, Daniele is worn out. It doesn’t matter, he pushes even harder.
ALAIN ROTH
Guilt is even more disgusting. You spend your life kicking yourself to make yourself feel better, by letting those you’ve destroyed die off. If you want to do something for her, I don’t know, you could kill yourself. No, that’s not good enough. No, kick yourself. Find something that makes you suffer. Get cancer. Make it last for 29 years, so you suffer and die. That way you’ll feel better about your daughter croaking. So you have to accept it.
NARRATOR
Alain Roth now takes the opportunity to teach everyone a lesson, in his own words.
ALAIN ROTH
We are criminals when we feel threatened. This is called “a racket.” That’s the distinction “racket,” when you feel threatened in your identity. It’s not even a physical threat. No one is dying. You’re rejected, not wanted anymore. You write off all men, and you instill this in your daughter. You use her for revenge. It’s about destroying. It’s not about loving!
(END OF FIRST DAY)
CUT TO SET OF PIECES A CONVICTION
HOST ELISE LUCET
In a few moments, we’ll continue this voyage into the heart of Landmark Education, and witness the rest of it hour by hour. But after this particularly violent scene, we should discuss what happened with out guests: Brigitte Thelier, who attended a Landmark Education workshop, Pierre, who lived through the same experience and wants to remain anonymous, and Jean-Pierre Jougla, a lawyer and a specialist in brainwashing in sects. First, I turn to you, Brigitte and Pierre, because I saw you react very strongly during that clip, as if it still hurts to see these images.
BRIGITTE THELIER, PAST PARTICIPANT, THE FORUM
That’s true, I attended this workshop in ’96. And seeing Alain Roth again in his chair, really, it makes my stomach turn.
ELISE LUCET
It hurts you?
BRIGITTE THELIER
It hurts me a lot.
PIERRE, PAST PARTICIPANT, THE FORUM
It’s very, very difficult to see that again. I’ve seen even worse. But this sets the tone well. They put someone in the hot seat for 50 minutes and destroy them.
ELISE LUCET
You have also see students break down on stage? You mean that this is what really happens in these Forums?
PIERRE
Yes, it’s even a little watered down. It’s worse than that sometimes. That’s about a mother-daughter problem, we see how abusive it is. There’s no reason to make a scene. So, imagine about subjects that are much more painful. There, they can’t take it.
ELISE LUCET
And how was it for you, for the 3 days inside this workshop?
BRIGITTE THELIER
Well, I think I’m like anyone else. I have my share of problems, now and then. But when I saw some people, like in the clip, how they were able to explain their problems in depth, how he was able to say, “How you’ve ruined your life! Do you realize the destruction you’ve created around you? All problems come from you. But, now I’m going to fix it. That’s why I’m here, to fix everything.” I didn’t want to. I found myself with 200 people that I’d never seen before, with a character who knew absolutely nothing about me. And even if deep inside I had problems, I didn’t want to air them there.
ELISE LUCET
Did either of you ever just want to get up and walk out of the room?
PIERRE
No, because at that price you stay until the end.
BRIGITTE THELIER
Maybe so. But you’re also being watched closely. The point is that you just don’t leave the room like that.
ELISE LUCET
So, Jean-Pierre Jougla, you’re a lawyer and also an expert in brainwashing. Could it be said that what happened between Alain Roth and Daniele is brainwashing?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA, COMMENTATOR
First I’d like to go back to your question, “Did you ever want to leave the room?” No. They were simply in a state that made it impossible to leave. From the beginning you saw the brainwashing set in motion, through things that seem harmless. For example, confining people for 3 or 4 days in a room with no windows. No sense of time passing.
ELISE LUCET
No bearings?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
No bearings. And, commitment to a completely objectionable contract.
ELISE LUCET
But a valid one?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
No. If you brought it to court, if would be thrown out immediately. But people there don’t know that it’s invalid, and so are put in a position of inferiority, passivity.
ELISE LUCET
Is it dangerous to put a person through that in front of 200 people?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
Of course it is. No one would think of playing around with this. Roth using techniques that could be used in behavioral psychology groups, but where people know it’s reciprocal.
ELISE LUCET
Meaning “face-to-face”?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
Face-to-face, removed from any public confessions. That’s where you get into totalitarian methods.
ELISE LUCET
For breaking down the mind?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
It completely breaks a person down, while preventing most people from realizing it. But brainwashing is just that: it happens without the victim knowing it
ELISE LUCET
In a few moments we will continue our infiltration of Landmark Education, and you will see the surprises that lie ahead. But you are surely wondering where Landmark Education comes from. Who created it? How many students does it have? Is it a sect, as some speakers have wondered? Here are the answers to your questions.
AN UNDER-REPORTED COMPANY
NARRATOR
Landmark Education: To know more about it we did a quick search on the internet. In the Yellow Pages, this company is just a continuing education firm. On its website, this American company, based in San Francisco, provides films that sing its praises. Smiles and applause, the workshops seem to take place in a perfectly good mood.
CLIP FROM PROMOTIONAL VIDEO
“Created in 1991, Landmark Education is one of the global leaders in personal development.”
NARRATOR
The company confirms it is present in 25 countries with more than 475 employees. As of today, Landmark Education has over 700,000 clients around the world. In France, Landmark Education is directed by an HEC [business school] graduate, by this man, Alain Roth. Registered with the Registry of Commerce in 1993, the French subsidiary today occupies offices in the 10th district of Paris.
But as early as 1995, the company’s name appeared in a parliamentary report [Les sectes en France], that listed 172 movements with a sect-like nature. Between the river bank suicide and the About-Men Club, is Landmark Education. To establish this list, the Assembly members relied on work conducted by police officers in the General Information Division, where they considered 10 criteria that define a sect. In the investigation notes, there is a question of brainwashing and mind control at Landmark Education.
We contacted the French headquarters by phone, asking to speak with Alain Roth.
ALAIN ROTH
Hello?
REPORTER FROM PIECES A CONVICTION
Mr. Roth?
ALAIN ROTH
Yes, hello.
REPORTER
I’m calling because we are preparing a show –
NARRATOR
At the same moment, the reporter we planted is next to him, in the Landmark Education offices.
REPORTER
– so I wanted to contact you to have a chance to meet with you.
ALAIN ROTH
So, what needs to happen in that case is that you go to our department that deals with the media.
NARRATOR
Impossible to ask Alain Roth the slightest question, he sends us to his superiors in the U.S.
ALAIN ROTH
Listen, you’ll have to speak with them first.
REPORTER
Very well. Thank you.
ALAIN ROTH
You’re welcome.
REPORTER
See you soon.
ALAIN ROTH
Good bye.
ALAIN ROTH (TO STAFF)
OK, well, Yeah, they’re doing a show on sects.
NARRATOR
As soon as the call is over, Alain Roth tells his American superiors about it.
ALAIN ROTH [ENGLISH]
This is Alain Roth. I don’t know if we know each other.
NARRATOR
Negotiations last for a few weeks. In the end, Landmark Education agrees to an interview. But surprise, it will not be with Alain Roth. Instead, the company offers us an interview with this woman, Sophie McLean. Coming from New York for the occasion, here is how she presented the company’s activities to us.
SOPHIE MCLEAN, SPOKESPERSON, LANDMARK FORUM LEADER
It is an international personal development company for which we created this teaching that is known to have a first course called The Forum. 3 days and an evening that examine what it means to be a human being. So, in general, you come and look at your life. You look at your values. You think. It’s a weekend that was designed to examine what a human being is. And it gives extraordinary results in the areas of your life that interest you.
NARRATOR
Landmark Education also wants to point out that its courses are meant for people in good emotional and physical health, as signified in the contract signed by every client.
SOPHIE MCLEAN
People who are not doing well do psychology or psychotherapy. Right? People who are doing well do personal development.
NARRATOR
As for the classification by the French Parliament of Landmark Education as a sect, Sophie McLean disputes it.
SOPHIE MCLEAN
First of all, it’s totally untrue of course, but I will tell you that we learned about it in the newspapers that we were considered a sect. No one did an inquiry. We were not – No one came to observe our seminar.
NARRATOR
According to Sophie McLean, several international experts say the same thing in different studies: that Landmark is not a sect.
SOPHIE MCLEAN
There is this extraordinary person in America, his name is Dr. Raymond Fowler. And we also have someone in Germany, Dr. Nedopil.
NARRATOR
According to her, a French expert also vouches for Landmark Education.
SOPHIE MCLEAN
The expert on cults in France is Jean-Marie Abgrall. We allow you complete freedom, you can take all the notes you want. And then let us know. Make us a report and then tell us – huh? – what you think.
NARRATOR
Jean-Marie Abgrall: A psychiatrist and legal expert, who has, according to Sophie McLean, written a report stating that Landmark Education is not a sect. But Landmark refuses to release this report. To try and learn more, we met with Jean-Marie Abgrall. He says he’s never really taken a stance.
JEAN-MARIE ABGRALL, PSYCHIATRIST, LEGAL EXPERT
It’s not true that I said it’s not a sect. I neither wrote that it is a sect nor that it’s not a sect. I haven’t taken a stance.
NARRATOR
According to our information, for his work Jean-Marie Abgrall was paid more than 45,000 euros. He agreed to let us in on the important points of his report. In the report, he says that during a Forum he has not found any element of constraint or allegiance to a charismatic leader. Nevertheless, he confirms that he warned the company about insufficient selection and monitoring of the students at Landmark. He says that such methods could put some participants in danger.
JEAN-MARIE ABGRALL, M.D.
My critique is of techniques that haven’t been mastered at all. There is no control of a psychologist. They just put anyone in there, which means that if this guy takes a blow, he leaves alone in a daze, there’s no one to take control for him. They don’t exchange information – there’s no real inspection of the technique. These guys aren’t trained, as if tomorrow you set up shop as a psychotherapist. I mean, that’s what’s shocking
BACK TO SET, PIECES A CONVICTION
HOST ELISE LUCET
You have surely gathered by now that we wanted to invite Alain Roth to the set. Despite multiple phone calls and repeated faxes – and I have the latest one here – he refused to come on the set, and of course we’re sorry about that. Let’s go back to Brigitte Thelier and Pierre who are, I remind you, former students of Landmark Education. Since both of you attended your workshops, have you also asked yourself the question: cult or not a cult? – Pierre?
PIERRE
Yes, because that’s what motivated me to register for The Forum. When I first heard about Landmark, I had two close friends who were doing it. And when we got together I asked questions. It was never possible to get the least bit of information. I only heard it’s “what happens,” it’s “what was said,” it’s “extraordinary.” The responses, the vocabulary used was completely incomprehensible. The questions were only a “racket,” a “winning formula,” etc. When you don’t have the keys, you can’t detect it. So when you ask for details, it wasn’t possible. They told me, “Do it! You’ll see how good it is.”
ELISE LUCET
So we’ve heard Pierre. Brigitte, as far as you’re concerned, was it important for you to know whether Landmark Education is a sect?
BRIGITTE THELIER
I would simply answer that, having lived through those three days, my experience tells me it is a sect. It’s a sect because it’s a place where you’re treated like a puppet or marionette. As soon as I’m treated like a puppet – like an object – I’m not myself anymore. It means someone has power over me. And in that case it’s a sect.
ELISE LUCET
On that note, Jean-Pierre Brard, you are deputy mayor of Montreal. You were vice-president of the investigating committee on sects in the Assembly. As we heard, Landmark Education says that you classified them as a sect, without having investigated it. What’s your response?
JEAN-PIERRE BRARD, DEPUTY MAYOR, MONTREAL
I say that Ms. McLean must be Pinocchio’s little sister and that, little by little as she’s talking, her nose must be growing longer. Because, obviously, she’s lying.
ELISE LUCET
But precisely what are the criteria that lead you to say it’s a sect?
JEAN-PIERRE BRARD
It’s very simple. Clearly, there’s a guru who destabilizes people to enslave them, to make them subservient, which has been said by witnesses. You can also see that they make you relinquish critical thought, and break the person down so that they can pick up the pieces. You can also see that there’s a network of money. This hasn’t been mentioned yet: The ultimate goal is to press its power and clean out the students’ wallets. And by using the students, to attempt to earn more. So, there are the criterion of domination, a network of money, subordination and brainwashing. So it’s a sect.
ELISE LUCET
But you know, for those watching, it’s far removed from the caricature they have of a sect. It’s not The Mandarom Sect. It’s far from The Order of the Solar Temple. Why?
JEAN-PIERRE BRARD
It’s not that far. You still have a group, you have a pyramid structure. You still have jargon that separates you from your family and society. And you still have the element of money from people that are victims.
ELISE LUCET
Jean-Pierre Jougla?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
What influences public opinion is only the storefront. The sects you cited have a religious pretense, and hide behind that screen. Here, there’s no religious element. But there’s still a doctrine. The basis of Landmark’s doctrine essentially rests on a philosophical concept. It’s the concept of authenticity. “We’re going to teach people to be authentic.”
ELISE LUCET
We’ll see that.
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
So, we’ll get back to it.
ELISE LUCET
Now with these initial explanations, we return to our immersion back at The Forum. Despite what we saw, no one objected. Everyone decided to return. But this time, the session begins with questions that are not necessarily welcomed, as you’ll see.
(SECOND DAY AT LANDMARK)
NARRATOR
Back to the workshop. Before continuing with the course, Alain Roth makes a proposal. For those who want to leave the workshop, the door is open. For those with questions, they should ask them now.
ALAIN ROTH
So, if you have a question, raise your hand and ask it.
NARRATOR
Up front, a woman voices a criticism.
MURIELLE, WOMAN WITH QUESTION
Yes, I would like to know why there is so much harassment.
NARRATOR
Murielle complains of being harassed by the Landmark staff, of incessant phone calls to get her to register for the workshop.
MURIELLE
When people –
ALAIN ROTH
Wait, wait. Turn on the microphone. Don’t destroy the microphone. Thanks.
MURIELLE
What I wanted to say was –
ALAIN ROTH
Wait a second. Where’s your name tag? Because I don’t want to harass you too much. Thanks. You don’t make a distinction between what’s happening and your interpretation. You confuse the two, as we’ll see: There is no harassment. There is what happens.
MURIELLE
May I say something?
ALAIN ROTH
Wait, wait. You will say what you want, The Forum isn’t “I go to the microphone and I talk.” There’s a leader who leads the discussions and I’m the leader. So, I will give you the floor, but let me create a certain context first. So, “harassment” never happened. That’s an interpretation.
MURIELLE
So, if you tell me “It’s not true,” I don’t see how I can talk to you.
ALAIN ROTH
Yes, but hold on. You didn’t have ten people demanding, “You will enroll, you will enroll.”
MURIELLE
No, I also had someone call to ask me if I had a problem. Another one asked something else.
ALAIN ROTH
Ok!
MURIELLE
But when you get three, maybe four calls in the same week, you’re overwhelmed.
ALAIN ROTH
Ok, but you call that harassment?
MURIELLE
Yes, I call that harassment.
ALAIN ROTH
But is it harassment?
MURIELLE
Well, yes.
ALAIN ROTH
That’s because you interpret it that way. You could interpret it another way.
MURIELLE
How?
ALAIN ROTH
That people are calling to support you, they’re committed to making something happen for you.
NARRATOR
In all, an exchange of 15 minutes. Clearly, it is difficult to make criticisms.
LANDMARK STAFF MEMBER
We’re going to take a 30-minute break. It’s now 4:10 PM. Be back in your chairs, ready to start, at 4:40 PM. Thank you.
NARRATOR
During the break, we head to the hotel bar. We find Murielle, who was complaining about harassment. For her, Alain Roth’s verbal abuse is unacceptable.
MURIELLE
I feel a bit of something. The approach is a bit terrorist.
REPORTER, PIECES A CONVICTION
Why terrorist?
MAN, PARTICIPANT IN THE FORUM
Wait. He’s coming. Suddenly we’re interrupted. Alain Roth comes by in person to convince Murielle not to leave the workshop.
ALAIN ROTH
What’s happening with you, Murielle? You tend to go it alone, instead of looking for people who can support you. It would be good if, before leaving, you spoke, since you’re suffering and worn out because you resist.
NARRATOR
A few minutes later, the operation of seduction is successful. Murielle has changed her mind.
MAN, PARTICIPANT IN THE FORUM
Still alive?
MURIELLE
Yes. No, he’s very nice. I was afraid he wasn’t listening, but he was. He head it. All of it. I felt – not kindness – but I felt something very human.
MAN, PARTICIPANT IN THE FORUM
Lending an ear?
MURIELLE
No. More. Guys in communication are taught to lend an ear. No, I felt something searching on a deeper level.
NARRATOR
It’s 9:30 PM. The day is almost over. But before leaving, there’s one more exercise in store for us. For this one, Alain Roth asks us to close our eyes.
ALAIN ROTH
No one will enter this room, so you don’t have to worry. There are two people sitting next to you. Create an experiment where you fear the two people next to you. Get ready to do this experiment, where you’re terrified, terrified of the two people sitting next to you. Let the fear enter your body, your breathing, your gut, your entire life.
NARRATOR
This introspection is perfectly orchestrated by the coach. No improvisation, everything is written down.
ALAIN ROTH
You are trying to escape. There is no place to go. How to continue to be with yourself, and be present?
NARRATOR
In this row, the man in red is going to crack.
ALAIN ROTH
When you were a little boy or a little girl, you said to yourself, “Never again. I won’t go through that again.”
NARRATOR
With these words, he starts to sob.
ALAIN ROTH
You decided it is better not to feel anything again, so suffer as you have. And your whole life became about making sure you would never suffer again. At that moment, you sentenced yourself to death.
NARRATOR
It’s been more than 48 hours since the workshop began. The students are beginning to feel the physical and emotional fatigue. Years later, those who went through it still remember the experience.
PIERRE, ANONYMOUS FORUM GRADUATE
It was very annoying, very annoying, because we’re cut off from everything. We start at 8 AM and finish at 10 PM. There’s a meal break at 5 in the afternoon. We are only allowed to drink, and only at certain times. We have no contact with the outside world, with curtains and only inside lights. So, we don’t know any more. We lose our sense of time.
LAURENT MOURNAIS, FORUM GRADUATE
It’s difficult to get a perspective – impossible. And that’s what I understood. At Landmark, they don’t let you get a perspective.
REPORTER, PIECES A CONVICTION
Critical thinking isn’t possible?
LAURENT MOURNAIS
That’s just it, we don’t have the time to.
PIERRE
At any given moment you defenses are down and, It’s not that you accept it, but you enter into it, If you don’t go along with it, it can’t work.
(END OF SECOND DAY)
SET OF PIECES A CONVICTION
HOST ELISE LUCET
Brigitte Thelier and Pierre, as former students of Landmark Education, You lived through this moment of returning to early childhood fears. What were you feeling at that moment?
BRIGITTE THELIER
I took it as a game of his, a game that makes you very, very scared, But still a game, so, I didn’t want to be a part of this mechanism. I understood that it wasn’t the right place for me.
ELISE LUCET
Already?
BRIGITTE THELIER
Already. So, of course, I did what everyone else was doing. And it’s frightening to see again, as in the clip, people breaking down, crying. It’s emotional abuse. Why, in a personal development workshop, bring out suffering through abuse, bring out fears?
ELISE LUCET
Same for you, Pierre?
PIERRE
I remember the exercise very well, but I didn’t do it. I thought it was stupid. I didn’t get into it at all. I opened my eyes and looked around, and when you open your eyes, it’s appalling. There’s a little bit of giggling and some more or less go along with the game, But some people are completely taken in who break down like that man, absolutely.
ELISE LUCET
So, Christian Lujan, you are a psycho-sociologist and psychoanalyst. Why did Alain Roth bring out these fears from childhood? What’s the purpose?
DR. CHRISTIAN LUJAN, PSYCHOANALYST
He is in a position of total power. And we’re in a mechanism that has no place for the subject. Individuals are objects, objects of this total power. Everything is in coded language. Everything is organized, everything is structured. The goal is to destabilize the individual and to negate – and I emphasize this – the notion of the subject. The individual doesn’t own his own past. Only they know what’s good for him. At any moment, an exercise like this can take away a person’s introspection.
ELISE LUCET
So, Jean-Pierre Jougla, you’re an expert in brainwashing. We’re quite struck at the beginning of this clip where Murielle can’t even ask a question. What’s happening there?
JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA
He makes fun of any response of hers. But that’s not the problem. It’s the stranglehold he puts in place. And what frightens me is that in very little time, 3 or 4 days, we’re seeing what takes a sect 2 to 3 years to instill. The sect phenomenon is gaining momentum. And reviving childhood fears is not harmless. It puts the students, at least the ones who go along with the game, in the position of a child. This sets up the strangle hold of the guru. Because there’s an incest-like relationship between an all-powerful father and a child who is not even allowed to doubt, to question, to think critically. The only thing left is to listen.
ELISE LUCET
Let’s return to our voyage into the heart of Landmark Education. The students are beginning their third day of The Forum. Many of them are worn out, awaiting new ordeals. But the tone is going to change radically.
(THIRD DAY AT LANDMARK EDUCATION)
NARRATOR
Sunday morning, in the north of Paris, the Landmark Education personal development workshop continues, on the third day. At the entrance to the room are two assistants. Their mission: hand out name tags to the participants. For the, volunteering for Landmark changed their lives.
REPORTER
I’ll keep the name tag.
LANDMARK VOLUNTEER ASSISTANT 1, MAN
Oh! Bad boy.
NARRATOR
You’re a volunteer here? For a long time?
VOLUNTEER ASSISTANT 1
No, this is the second time. In any case, the second Forum.
NARRATOR
And really feeling the change?
LANDMARK VOLUNTEER ASSISTANT 2, MAN
My family says I’m completely transformed. In my professional life, they trust me like they didn’t trust me before. For people who live an ordinary life, I’ve become the guy they go to. But I don’t have more technical skill than before.
NARRATOR
Because you got the possibilities you wanted to create?
VOLUNTEER ASSISTANT 2
Yeah, because I confirm, because I take into account what people say, because I’m present for people, present for everyone, for my colleagues as well as my bosses. It’s Landmark that transformed me.
NARRATOR
This man admits that he is heavily recruiting people around him.
VOLUNTEER ASSISTANT 2
My ex-wife and daughter are coming, I have colleagues that are coming, There are people I work with in other associations that are coming, They go nuts. They ask me “How do you do it?” You want to see? Fine. I’ll invite you to a presentation. It’s no mystery.
NARRATOR
Today the workshop takes a new direction. Forgotten are the insults and public humiliations. Today, Alain Roth offers the workshop participants what, according to him, is a different way of life.
ALAIN ROTH
So, how to be authentic? Here’s the bad news: For everyone, without exception, it starts by being authentic through your inauthenticity. That’s how it starts. We enroll people by saying, “I’m a great guy.” Thinking positively by saying, “I’ll talk about myself, and reveal I’m an asshole.”
NARRATOR
To make his point, Alain Roth prompts Jacques, a doctor and father, to call his son to ask his forgiveness. Word for word Jacques rehearses his lesson with Alain Roth.
JACQUES
I’m calling because I’m thinking about you. I was reflecting on the relationship we have and I’m not on a good course with you. What I wanted was for you to make me happy, and I didn’t really think of you. I’d like that to end. Would you help me do that?
ALAIN ROTH
No! And I created the possibility – I created the possibility…
JACQUES
And I created the possibility by calling you, so we can discuss it.
ALAIN ROTH
No. To be –
JACQUES
– to be your father.
ALAIN ROTH
Will he be moved?
JACQUES
Oh yes.
ALAIN ROTH
Not, “Oh yes!” Will he be moved?
JACQUES
I will make sure he is.
NARRATOR
Once these phrases are learned, Alain Roth asks everyone to write to their parents, or call up friends with only one goal: to ask forgiveness. Most of the students do it.
LANDMARK FORUM PARTICIPANT, W