metawohoo:
clabrice:
colourfulheroes:
clabrice:
colourfulheroes:
clabrice:
colourfulheroes:
miraculousdaily:
Since Hawkmoth’s boss is the Peacock Miraculous it definitely confirms that Gabriel Agreste is Hawkmoth.
OR Gabriel Agreste is JUST a kind man who had no luck with life and has difficulties showing his love for people he cares for.
Fight me if you want.
If this is a joke, it’s hilarious.
It isn’t. Choose your weapons.
Kind characters are kind to everyone, not just loved ones or people they can benefit from. If Gabriel were kind to only family, then he’d be a man who is kind to his loved ones but not a kind man in general. Gabriel isn’t even kind to Adrien let alone anyone else. Gabriel is cold towards Adrien’s friends, he’s aggressive towards his employees and he’s rude af towards everyone else. The nicest we’ve ever seen him was towards Marinette and Ladybug, which seemed to come from a place of professionalism when you consider the context.
Gabriel might uninentially abuse Adrien out of overprotection but that doesn’t really make it better. Adrien has an accepting air of dissapointment whenever Gabriel ignores him, dismisses him, or attacks those around him. He’s so used to Gabriel condescending and isolating him that all he can do is hang his head and shut up. “Has difficulties showing his love” is a really nice way of putting it when we’re witnessing a man who’s controlled and emotionally abused his son long enough for it to be expected behavior. Not to mention, if he’s really as much of an overprotective asshole as he makes himself out to be, then it wouldn’t be surprising for him to become a supervillain in order to bring back his wife or whatever the fan theory.
No luck in life? The guy is a ridiculously wealthy and world-renowned fashion designer. That takes an incredible amount of luck considering plenty of skilled artists never catch a break. He’s highly respected and has a wonderful healthy son who loves and obeys him despite the relationship strain. Sure Gabriel lost his wife but otherwise life has treated him quite well. Even if a dark past or mysterious issues get revealed, it’s pushing it to say he’s had “no luck in life.”
Actually, the nicest we’ve seen him was towards Ladybug and not just out of professionalism, but while showing her pictures of HIS son. He has a whole wall dedicated to him and as hardly anyone visits him, I guess it’s not just to bragg. I saw a post (Message me if you have the link please!!) which suggested that Gabriel Agreste might be agoraphobe. The post reminded us that the last has never been seen outside his house except when he was a victim of the akumatised villain in Jackady. He’s always standing very far away from the people he is speaking to when they are more than one or people he doesn’t know like in the Origins for instance, where he is standing on top of his stairs facing Nathalie and the Gorilla. He could not have put more distance between them and him. Being cold is his way to protect himself
Gabriel doesn’t realize that he is being harmful to his son. As said Thomas Astruc on a tweet (Again, I can’t find it, if anyone could message it to me please?? That would be great!) G.A loves his son deeply but just doesn’t know how to show it. In the Bulleur, G.A actually never forgot Adrien’s birthday. It was Nathalie who did not remember to buy him a gift as he had asked her. So yes, Gabriel Agreste did not buy the gift, but he asked Nathalie if she had twice. In addition, Adrien would never had complained to his father if he hadn’t received any gifts. He would just have bottled up everything because this is part of Adrien’s personality. The fact that he’s just accepting anything from his father is not a proof of having being emotionally abused for a long time, but one of a timid person who does not express clearly his feelings. Adrien is a secretive kind of person and if he hates rows as we can see in Antibug when Ladybug and Chloé are arguing and he’s just being very awkward about it. He will always try to avoid one which means that he would do all he can in order to escape getting caught in an argument with his father. They are both similar in the fact that they don’t share their emotions with others. The only one Adrien shares a bit of his frustration to is Nino, his best friend, who can’t go around and give lessons to parents.
“Not to mention, if he’s really as much of an overprotective asshole as he makes himself out to be, then it wouldn’t be surprising for him to become a supervillain in order to bring back his wife or whatever the fan theory.”
I’ve never seen GA being disrespectful towards the law in whatever way. And he’s a rather recurring character. As a very rich celebrity, he could allow himself some misbehaviours towards the law providing he could wriggle out of possible procedures without too much damages… I’m not saying every rich famous person can do whatever they want because money and fame rule the world. I’m just saying that GA without getting into illegal things could just have his own way with law, which he never did! Whereas André Bourgeois the mayor of Paris does what he wants, even tarnishing a candidat’s image in order to be re-elected. If he wanted his wife to come bacl, he would just look for her in every part of the world and ask her to come back and offer her everything she wants, but he certainly would not become this villain who sends butterflies to get jewelry from two teenagers and destroy his city.
You’re right on the fact that I may have emphazise his having no luck in life. But although luck may have had a role to play in his becoming a world-renowned designer it isn’t the only reason. We can see all through season 1 that Gabriel Agreste is working a lot. I believe that his talent AND his hard work enabled him to be distinguish among other artists. Luck can’ t lead you anywhere if you don’t know how to deal with it. If he’s agrophobe which I am certain he is, then, this means that he suffers from anxiety crisis which are horrid things to experience. In addition he lost his wife. She probably was a person which was able to calm him and make him feel he could breath. And so yes, I do think you’re right and that he had SOME luck but that it abandoned him.
EDIT (Because I just saw your edit) : I still think my characterization of GA isn’t that far from the right one, though.
That’s the same scenario. He smiled and spoke politely to Ladybug, an influential figure protecting him, they went into his office and talked about the pictures of his son. That’s a pretty standard form of conversation even in professional situations. Go into anyone’s office where there are photos of children and they’re almost guaranteed to be discussed (especially since Ladybug’s fawning probably started it). What does Gabriel having pictures of his kid have to do with him being a kind person in general? As I said before, being kind to select people doesn’t mean he’s kind in general.
If Gabriel is that agoraphobic, would be have touched Ladybug’s shoulder? If Gabriel really was just agoraphobic, was it necessary to call Simon and Alec “pathetic” with an overall “fuck you” attitude while he was in another building? Was it necessary to call someone an “imbecile” and another “incompetent” over the phone? He’s really kind of an asshole and says things in asshole ways.
I never said anything about Adrien’s birthday or Gabriel forgetting. I’m very much aware of what Astruc said (he tweeted that Gabriel is “overprotective,” either provide your sources or don’t because the person you’re talking to will rarely provide them for you). Astruc calls Gabriel overprotective but he shows the negative consequences of it in the series. Overall it just seems like you’re making excuses for Gabriel. If Gabriel is an asshole, it’s okay because he’s just choosing to react badly! If he ignores Adrien, it’s okay because Adrien will just internalize his pain!
It is unintentional abuse but still abuse. Gabriel condescends the fuck out of Adrien. Every time Adrien tries to express his concerns, Gabriel shuts him down. Adrien shuts up and gets sad af, as he’s sadly told Nino, Gabriel is stubborn and it’s best to stay out of his way. Adrien doesn’t internalize everything because it’s his personality, he internalizes everything because he has no chioce.
What do you mean he dealt with Chloe and Ladybug’s argument awkwardly? He was either fighting Vanisher or minding his own business and twice asked Ladybug why she was acting up. He tried to speak up to Gabriel in Bubbler and Origins, tried to defend his friend and himself, it was just fruitless because Gabriel completely dismissed him both times. Adrien internalizes with Gabriel because Gabriel doesn’t listen. Gabriel’s indifferent behavior makes Adrien feel he doesn’t care (as shown in Bubbler when Ladybug said parents love their kids and Adrien muttered “some do.”) I’m not saying Gabriel doesn’t care for Adrien, I’m saying he hardly tries to show it. Ladybug and contest-winning Marinette proved Gabriel knows how to be polite and offer praise, yet he doesn’t even bother towards Adrien. All Gabriel provides is the bare minimum of making sure Adrien is alive while the rest of his actions contradict love. Therefore why “difficulties showing love” is putting it so lightly that it undercuts what an asshole Gabriel actually is and how deeply he’s hurt Adrien (unintentionally or not because the hurt remains).
Why do we need to see Gabriel be disrespectful towards the law in order for him to be a villain? If anything, it’s pretty standard for villainous characters to respect the law as civilians in order to avoid drawing attention to themselves. However there hasn’t really been opportunity to see whether he disrespects the law or not. Gabriel is a celebrity but he doesn’t have Andre’s political power. He couldn’t get away with the things Andre does, the guy literally runs the town! Besides it’s not exactly illegal to run smear campaigns against your opponent. Ugly, but not inherently illegal.
There’s also no reason Gabriel should have to commit multiple petty crimes in order to commit one crime he sees as a necessity. My main point was that Gabriel doesn’t really seem to care about anyone other than his family so it’s possible he wouldn’t care about hurting others if it’s for his family. As for his wife, the world is a big place and there’s only so much time. It’s possible he doesn’t even know what happened to her (or whether she’s even alive). He could have started a search and failed miserably, he could have found the miraculous and seen it as a short-cut if not a promise to get her back. Either way I really don’t care if Gabriel is Hawkmoth. It hasn’t been outright confirmed true or false, I think it’s a 50/50 chance, but it wasn’t my motivation for this conversation. We really don’t know that much about Gabriel, which is why I think it’s the possibilities are so open. it’s just that what we’ve seen of him has been antagonistic (because he’s an asshole even if he’s not a villain). You’re assessment of Gabriel is possible but it needs more canon evidence. However there’s nothing that can be revealed that would invalidate Gabriel’s sheer assholery towards others.
Hardworking artists don’t always get recognized on that level. Hard work definitely plays a part but sometimes it’s completely random who get’s recognized and who the market allows to get big. That’s all I meant about luck. I still don’t think it abandoned him because because the worst parts of his life is that he lost his wife and he’s maybe agoraphobic. Considering Adrien’s negative feelings towards Gabriel and his desire to gain freedom through Chat Noir, many other characters in his situation absolutely would have said “fuck mai old man” and rebelled like hell behind his back. Gabriel’s incredibly lucky that isn’t the case and that it’s actually not too late for them to patch things up.
Although luck is relatively subjective. I think it’s lucky to be born in a free country with food, shelter, clean water, generous finances, a family that loves you, and the successful opportunity to make something of yourself. To me, someone who has all those things didn’t only have “some” luck in life. There are so many out on the street, wrongly imprisoned, sold into prostitution, or born into tyrannical countries who are significantly less lucky. You might have a different idea.
After reading your arguments, I can actually understand where you’re coming from. I don’t agree but it’s easier to see value in the explanations you’ve provided than to just see Gabriel as a “kind man with no luck in life” (I’m sorry but it still makes me giggle, he’s right below Chloe as far as being a rich asshole goes).
I firmly agree with every single one of Clabrice’s points here. I’d add something but it was nicely wrapped up. Fantastic analysis/rebuttal.
Not to mention that I was shocked you used the term “agoraphobic”, which I take to mean ‘fear of open spaces or of leaving home’. Gabriel wasn’t even home for Adrien’s birthday - he had to get Nathalie to find a gift because he wouldn’t even see him all day, for Pete’s sake - and he probably wasn’t around for previous ones. Only a couple times has he been portrayed in his office as opposed to leaving the house - Mr. Pigeon and Jackady - but those seem to be more of a ‘I’m too busy to leave my office’ situation than a 'I don’t want to go outside’ situation. It fits well with his 'I don’t have time for Adrien’ narrative. Another time I can think of is Volpina, where Gabriel was in his office for a SECOND before he left - presumably to leave his house to go to a meeting.
Plus, the one time he WAS in an open, unfamiliar space - the end of Jackady - he didn’t have any response of panic or anxiety. I’d think that would be the extreme of agoraphobia, and besides the common sense reaction of I-nearly-fell-off-a-building-and-I’m-glad-I’m-not-dead, he seemed like a normal person.
tl;dr: he’s not agoraphobic.
Anyway, returning to your original point: Gabriel’s behavior, positive or negative, doesn’t necessarily factor into whether he’s a villain. You always have villains like Prince Hans who, at first glance, are charming and popular, but whose evil motives drive their actions and ultimately make them a villain.