glass-soldiers:
headspacedad:
lionbots:
velkynkarma:
bosstoaster:
headspacedad replied to your post “bucketofbarnes
replied to your post “An important note on Slav: I’ve…”
I’ve seen a couple posts by people with OCD claiming they feel bad about the way Shiro reacted to it. I think it helps, and hopefully they read it, about WHY Shiro would act that way around Slav in a way that doesn’t indicate judgement on either one of them, just where they’re both coming from. It’s a good post that does that.
I mean, it definitely wasn’t meant to excuse Shiro: he’s got his head up his ass when it comes to Slav for sure, and I say that as one of the biggest Shiro Stans around. But he’s not handling this well and he really does need to be called out on it.
Still, I do think it’s character indicative rather than specifically making fun of Slav, I just think that got lost in how GO GO GO GO the last few episodes were. If you notice, neither Lance nor Pidge seem to have any particular problems with Slav’s actions. Like I said, the only person who reactions comparatively is Coran, and that’s what Slav is doing something actively dangerous with the VERY important equipment.
I was hoping people would examine their own reactions to Shiro’s anger a little: I had to. I know a few people who are OCD in this fandom and I never want to make them feel like they deserve that kind of anger from a character who is so usually shown as In The Right and morally straight-laced.
Of course, that’s not for me to decide, either: If those actually dealing with OCD still feel it’s an unfair depiction, they’ve got much more say that I do. But that’s just my little soapbox. Shiro was wrong to treat Slav that way, but I also don’t think he’d react any other way right now. He needs to deal with his own issues enough to recognize why he feels that way. Maybe that’s part of his arc in S3? Who knows!
Speaking as one of those people with OCD in the fandom I actually found your post to be pretty insightful.
I also didn’t mind the Slav and Shiro interactions a lot. Obviously I can’t speak for every person who has OCD and if they felt bad about Shiro’s reactions that’s perfectly fair. I will admit that if a coworker or random passerby on the street started flipping out at me like Shiro did to Slav while I was dealing with one of my compulsions or rituals I would be quite upset, so I think that’s fair. I know I have tried to avoid people who comment even idly on some of my compulsions that they’ve witnessed without meaning any harm, so outright anger/frustration might be a little tough to take.
What I actually found more intriguing about the whole dynamic though is that, besides being a commentary on two different kinds of anxiety disorders and how those individuals deal with it, it’s also pretty indicative of how just OCD works…at least for me, and for a few others with OCD I’ve spoken to.
See, for me, with OCD, I am 100% aware that the rituals I need to complete to deal with whatever anxieties have come up are complete and utter bullshit. I am completely aware that always and ONLY taking the third plate down in the stack is not in any way better or worse than any of the other plates. I’m aware that my inability to touch doorknobs without immediately needing to perform a ritual is kind of ridiculous. I am aware that washing my hands 3 to 7 times (depending on the circumstance in question, and yeah, it is categorized) is excessive. I am aware that I really don’t need to check that I performed that task 2-5 extra times because I remember doing it the first time perfectly. I know all of that but I can’t stop from doing it. I can’t stop from doing it, but I do often range through anything from ‘ugh this is so embarrassing that I have to keep doing this please don’t let anybody see me or ask about it’ to ‘enraged because this is stupid as hell why are you wasting time on this.’ It’s like being held hostage by your own brain. It sucks.
So yeah, Slav’s half of the dynamic is definitely the obsessions, the rituals, the anxieties. But Shiro? Shiro’s that half of you that knows ‘this is fucking stupid, you’re wasting time, you did that three times already, this doesn’t make a damn bit of difference, why don’t you stop already, what the hell is wrong with you?!’ And honestly? I could relate to both. Shiro’s objections in the episodes are basically all the things I’ve internally yelled at MYSELF at for OCD. Both parts were relateable for me.
I also feel the need to point out, while on the topic of OCD, that there’s kind of another key piece here: Slav actually fights some of his compulsions, and Shiro actually compromised on them.
Fighting compulsions is hard. Really, really hard. The longer you hold off the louder your mind will start screaming at you that you haven’t done this yet, you haven’t done this yet, you haven’t done this yet, and it gets progressively more difficult to ignore. I try to fight it sometimes to see how long I can last but it’s never very long. Sometimes you don’t have a choice if one of your compulsions is blocked and then it’s REALLY tough. Handwashing is a big one for me, but sometimes the sink will be occupied, and I literally cannot do anything else until I wash my hands. Sometimes I try, but it doesn’t happen, so I’ll just stand there like an idiot for however long it takes for others to finish washing dishes or something because it just can’t be fought. In the prison escape, Slav did not want to leave that prison cell because he hadn’t completely met all his compulsions, and then he came across more problems on the way, but he did it anyway, and that’s huge.
And for all his griping, Shiro actually does try to meet him halfway at certain points, by offering to carry him or cover his eyes. And this is kind of important too because we know Shiro is fully capable of hiking Slav under one arm and dragging him out the door, compulsions be damned, but he doesn’t. He doesn’t get Slav’s problems and he’s really frustrated by it but at least he did try. And let me tell you, as someone with OCD who really hates feeling embarrassed or stupid over my compulsions, it means a LOT to me when a family member or friend helps alleviate some of that stress. Maybe they don’t get WHY I can’t get out the door or why I need to wash my hands a couple times before we do anything, maybe they think it’s stupid or silly, but they will still open a door for me or wait until I’m done or not give me shit about my compulsions and that’s really helpful.
Basically, no, Shiro doesn’t get off the hook completely for this one, he was still a jerk about it, but I don’t think he was AS much of an asshat about it as it initially comes across. Especially considering it was a high-stress prison break situation for a high-stress fate of the world battle and he already has a lot on his mind. And on a meta level, the Shiro and Slav dynamic is basically a full representation of the Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in addition to being a commentary on internalized PTSD versus more exposed OCD, and I found both characters to be really relateable as a result.
This is a Good Post and I want to boost it for others to see.
I have a few thoughts but please note I don’t have PTSD or OCD. If anything I say is incorrect or offensive please let me know. Also, my intent isn’t to speak over those that do have PTSD or OCD so if it would be better to do so (like if I’ve missed someone else’s post that’s already said everything I’m saying), please reblog this post without my commentary.
Another thing that I don’t really see people acknowledging is that yes, the way Shiro treats Slav was not ideal in any way, but it was most likely a result of Shiro’s own PTSD that was aggravated due to Slav’s actions. Shiro’s outbursts were likely harmful in some way to Slav personally. And Slav - having OCD - can’t help the compulsions and rituals he has and does not deserve to be snapped at because of them. But just as Shiro’s treatment of him was harmful, due to the specific situation they were in Slav’s compulsions and rituals were directly endangering not only Shiro’s life, but his team’s lives.
And we all know that one of Shiro’s worst fears is losing his team. Again.
Every second they’re stalled is another chance for enemies to discover their position, for something to go wrong, for someone to get hurt. They were supposed to get in and out without anyone knowing. Slav’s actions - even though they could not be helped - directly increased the risk of the mission taking a turn for the worse. Which would, in turn, aggravate Shiro’s PTSD. And (as others have said in this post) even though his reactions were not ideal, Shiro still made any attempt he could to compromise so that Slav could feel safe but also please move faster we need to go.
I do not have PTSD or OCD. But I do have mental illnesses. And most of my friends have mental illnesses of varying severities. One thing I can tell you that most people who are mentally ill with mentally ill friends is: sometimes, your mental illnesses clash. It’s not anyone’s fault. It doesn’t make you bad. It just happens. Sometimes it’s as simple as “your finger tapping is giving me anxiety I don’t know why but if it’s possible could you stop/switch to something else” sometimes it’s as bad as “I know I’m your fp, I’m sorry I didn’t answer your calls all day, but if I had talked to anyone yesterday I just would’ve ended up exploding.”
That’s what happened with Shiro and Slav. Due to the circumstances that surrounded their first encounter. They clashed. They both ended up negatively affecting the other due to how their disorders affected them.
Slav has OCD. This is not his fault and it does not make Slav bad. Shiro has PTSD. This is not his fault and does not make Shiro bad. But that does not mean their actions and reactions to things are always harmless. This can be acknowledged for BOTH of them without demonizing them for their mental illnesses. And though it wasn’t perfectly handled, the show still made a good point of that (what with the compromising, and how no one else treated Slav badly or seemed to judge him for his OCD).
As others have said above, I don’t think Shiro and Slav’s initial interactions were meant to frame Shiro as someone who hates people with OCD or who is intolerant of the symptoms of OCD. If the circumstances were any different, I don’t think Shiro would’ve exploded at Slav like that.
Anyways, I only said all this because I see a bunch of people saying we need to be critical of how Shiro sometimes snapped at Slav’s compulsions and rituals, because it negatively affected Slav (which was underserved). Which I completely agree with! But I don’t see anyone saying we need to be more critical of how Slav sometimes ignored Shiro’s obvious distress, because that further negatively affected Shiro (which is also underserved). Neither could help their symptoms. Neither’s symptoms make them inherently bad whatsoever. It was simply a situation in which both contributed to negatively affecting the other. They clashed, and were not in a situation where that could be immediately remedied or eased. I don’t think it’s completely fair that the fandom is directing criticism only at Shiro, even though he also has a disorder.
Since we weren’t shown either’s reaction directly after we don’t know how this tension was resolved. THAT we can criticize, since it would’ve been very nice to see an on screen resolution that had both of them recognizing the negative of their actions on each other, but also not placing direct blame on each other (since, as said numerous times) it’s not like it could’ve been helped.
This is all amazing and I just want to add a smidgen to it.
One of the things you’re told to keep an eye out for when someone in the military comes home, particularly after a deployment to a dangerous area, is time, or more specifically time oriented deadlines. If you need to leave the house at 5:15, you need to be at the door at 5:15. Not 5:17, not 5:20. Being even a minute or two late can stress out someone back from deployment. Because, wherever they were serving, everyone was expected to run on exactly the same clock, at exactly the same time because someone running even a minute or two late could throw off an entire route, plan or mission and people could end up dead. Be where you need to be exactly when you need to be there or something horrible could go wrong. Keeping to a schedule is so ingrained that it doesn’t matter that its just a dinner date with friends, their gut is telling them its a matter of life and death even if they know its not. Shiro lets Slav crawl all over him which is an entirely other subject when it comes to upclose and personal with someone that has been physically tortured and threatened with bodily harm for a year so I think it’s obvious he doesn’t hate the owl ferret but - be where you need to be exactly when you need to be there or something horrible could go wrong. And the only other two people that something terrible could go wrong to are two teenagers he feels personally responsible for and cares deeply about. The same number of teammates, I’ll point out, as the last team he lost. Maybe one of the reasons this part of the episode hit such a note for us is because ‘infallible’ ‘space dad’ has flaws just like the rest of us and they run deep. He’s not always going to react the way that’s best. He’s trying and sometimes failing too. I’ve read some complaints that Shiro’s PTSD was ignored this season after episode 3. PTSD comes in a lot of forms and manifests in a lot of ways. Lack of flashbacks doesn’t mean its not still there inside him, reordering the way he views certain things.
Reblogging again for the excellent addition.