· India only talks through the barrel of gun
· Resistance leadership did not give up in 2010, people did
· I don’t need to groom anyone; leaders are born, not made
· Cultural aggression stronger under Modi and RSS
· Kashmiris not paying heed to India’s aggression
Love him or hate him, you just can’t ignore him. Syed
Ali Geelani has been the face of the resistance movement in Kashmir and
some believe the most pricking thorn in the eye of New Delhi. Known for his
unwavering stance on Kashmir issue, he is seen as a hawk in the Indian
political and media circles. For the same reason, however, he is held in
reverence in Kashmir and commands respect among admirers and adversaries alike.
Geelani opens up in a candid conversation with Rising Kashmir Editor-in-Chief, Shujaat Bukhari and
Political Editor, Faisul Yaseen, sharing his experiences and opinions
about the intractable Kashmir conflict and its various stakeholders.
You are considered to be the most
powerful leader in Kashmir. With great power comes great responsibility? Don’t
you feel responsible toward giving a proper direction to the movement and to
come up with a concrete roadmap on Kashmir resolution?
Yes, I have serious responsibilities.
I firmly believe our stand on Jammu Kashmir is based on firm and historical
facts. Keeping these historical facts in mind, I try to discharge my
responsibilities in the best possible way. In the end, truth always wins
against brute force. India’s stand on Kashmir is based on utter lies and brute
force. India only talks through the barrel of gun. Apart from the language of
guns, force and army, India is not ready to listen to any other language. I do
not fear my responsibilities and by Allah’s grace will never deviate from this
path.
India doesn’t accept Kashmir as a
dispute and isn’t ready for a resolution while Kashmiris who are getting
killed. So shouldn’t the resistance leadership take the initiative for
resolving Kashmir issue rather than wait for New Delhi to give up its rigid
stance?
We should keep our struggle going.
For the people of Kashmir, there is no going back. Kashmiris have only two
options – either surrender before India, considering that it is a big nation
that has every resource at its disposal or remember we are on a true path and
keep the struggle going. We should always remain steadfast despite difficulties
coming our way.
Unity among resistance leaders is
important for taking the movement to its logical conclusion. However, for the
past 12 years, there is no unity among the leaders. Recently, some bigwigs
joined you but overall disunity sends a wrong signal.
Unity among Hurriyat is not necessary
for the resolution of Kashmir dispute. For first 10 years entire Hurriyat was
united. But during those years India did not pay heed to our demands either. It
didn’t pay heed even after the Hurriyat got disunited in 2003. It is not due to
disunity among Hurriyat but due to weakness of Kashmiris that we are unable to
take the Kashmir issue to its logical conclusion. When we ask people to boycott
polls, people did not follow our programme and came out to vote. Kashmiris are
weak and do not follow programmes given by the Hurriyat in letter and spirit.
Recently, the Permanent Representative of the Pakistan to the United Nations,
Maleeha Lodhi put a strong case of Kashmiris in front of the UN Security
Council but the Indian Ambassador responded saying Kashmiris have in the past
and recently also voted overwhelmingly and that there is no need of giving them
their right to self-determination. Kashmiris have put their leaders to shame.
People say they are voting for basic needs and not against Azadi but they
should keep in mind the nation, which is oppressed should never pay heed to these
pity things. People should always give preference to self-determination rather
than to basic needs.
If people were forced to vote in 1996
elections, in subsequent elections they came out in large number to cast their
vote. Is leadership also to be blamed for this? Have people lost confidence in
the leaders?
If people have lost confidence in
their leaders, it also is the weakness of people. The leaders cannot be blamed
for it.
If leaders today give a call for poll
boycott and yet people come out to vote, don’t leaders need to introspect?
Hurriyat leaders always introspect.
Introspection is needed at individual as well as community level but the real
weakness is in people of Kashmir not the leaders. People have failed leaders
not vice versa. People should always give preference to free themselves from
occupation rather than other necessities. This is where people failed us.
Kashmiris give preference to roads, daily wage jobs, universities, flyovers,
shopping malls and other such things but they fail to understand this is never
going to set us free. Till Kashmiris don’t understand that giving preference to
such things only makes occupation stronger, we will never achieve our goal.
Kashmiris till date have not inculcated such a thinking.
There are different structures of
violence. Children are killed by bullets and children are also killed with the
absence of necessary amenities like hospitals. When we cover polls, voters tell
us their vote is a Jihad against such sort of violence.
If any Kashmiri thinks in such a way,
it is naïve on his part. Wherever there is occupation in any part of the world,
it is the duty of the occupier to take care of the occupied people. When the
British occupied India, they took care of Indians yet Indians continued with their
freedom struggle and won freedom after 200 years. Similar is the situation for
Kashmir. So, even if Kashmiris do not vote, they still pay taxes and the
resources we have are exploited by India. As such, India is duty bound to take
care of the day-to-day needs of Kashmiris. Kashmiris should inculcate such sort
of thinking not a sort of thinking that if they feel National Conference isn’t
doing anything for them, they vote for Peoples Democratic Party. And when they
feel PDP does not do anything for them, they vote for other parties.
What is leadership doing to tackle
such a problem?
The leadership has to bring awareness
among the people. Unfortunately, during the past several years almost entire
leadership has been either placed under house arrest or held in jails. Whenever
the leadership tries to reach out to the people, Police fires bullets, pellets,
tear smoke canisters, pepper gas on the people and orders mass arrest of the
people who are part of the procession. I myself saw policemen pelting stones at
the leadership and the people. One also has to keep in mind the hardships the
leadership faces and how they are deliberately kept aloof from the people. When
we called for the Million March on November 7, the government imposed massive
curbs on entire leadership. Had they allowed the march, at least two million
people would have participated in it. Even people from Jammu were planning to
come here to protest against the oppression there.
What are you doing to stop the
onslaught of the Hinudtva groups in Jammu Kashmir?
The people in power even before were
like them. The only difference is today they openly say that they want to
change the demography of Kashmir. We are doing our best to keep these forces at
bay. Congress was no friend of ours too. However, today cultural aggression is
stronger. Narendra Modi and the RSS want to change the demography of Jammu
Kashmir. They are promoting drug addiction, sale of liquor and co-education for
disturbing Jammu Kashmir’s social and cultural fabric. In presence of more than
seven lakh Indian forces in Kashmir, how are our mothers and sisters going to
be safe. Kashmiris should keep all these things in mind but unfortunately they
are not paying heed.
In far-flung areas, people are not
even allowed to offer evening and morning prayers in Masjids. In such a
situation, people are duty bound to raise voice.
Do you think Muslims in Chenab Valley
and Pir Pinchal region are safe?
They are more vulnerable to threats
and easy prey. Police, army and administration, all are against them. The
government is inducting more and more RSS men in the administrative set up.
After BJP came to power, RSS men are getting top posts to fulfill their agenda.
Then these people also have to face the wrath of the Village Defence Committees,
who have been provided guns. There are 28,500 VDC members, 90 percent of who
are Hindus, making Muslims vulnerable. Even the media in these areas is with
RSS. So, the overall condition of Muslims in these areas is grim.
How do you see Nawaz Sharif-led
government in Pakistan? Is there any change in their stance?
There are 57 Muslim countries in the
world but their problem is that their government is either a puppet of the US,
UK, France or Russia. These Muslim governments only pass resolutions on Palestine
and Kashmir but do nothing practically. OIC too only passes the resolutions and
does nothing on the ground. If these Muslim governments only cut off oil
supplies to India and Israel for a day, these aggressors will bow before us.
Among these 57 governments, only Pakistan has stood with us right since 1947.
They fought three wars for us. Now their incumbent government has been
rigorously supporting our cause for self-determination. Now they are not giving
preference to out-of-box solutions or four-point formulas but are seeking right
to self-determination of Kashmiris at various international forums. There is a
positive change in their attitude since Raheel Sharif became Pakistan Army
Chief. However, Pakistan’s internal situation is also an issue. I always get
hurt when their minorities are in pain. Minorities in Pakistan should get a
good treatment because Pakistan founded in the name of Islam. It is the duty of
the government to treat minorities fairly. Their places of worship and their
homes should be safeguarded and nothing should come in way of their religious
obligation. No Hindu should be killed in Pakistan. It is the duty of Pakistan
government to safeguard their minorities. Wherever Muslims are in majority, it
is their duty to safeguard minorities. Islam has given rights to minorities,
which secularism cannot even think off. So they should not be deprived of their
rights.
You believe in democracy but you
praise General Raheel Sharif?
I am not praising him but whenever
there was democracy in Pakistan, history is witness that the rulers went
haywire. And then Army had to pitch in and take control and bring some vibrancy
in Pakistan. After Qaid-e-Azam and Liaquat Ali Khan, Pakistan has not seen any
democratic leader of their caliber. This is the reason why democracy failed in
Pakistan. Rest of the democratic leaders of Pakistan have had the Western
outlook and been aping the West.
But don’t you think if Narendra Modi
had reciprocated to Nawaz Sharif’s peace initiatives, things would have been different?
It is Nawaz Sharif’s mistake that he
misunderstood Modi. He should have known the legacy and history of Modi before
extending a hand of friendship and peace toward Modi. He should not have
attended Modi’s swearing-in ceremony.
Without India-Pakistan dialogue, can
there be any movement on Kashmir resolution?
Hurriyat is not against dialogue. We
also want dialogue. War is no option. Even after a war, things are settled on
the table. However, till date 150 rounds of dialogue have been held but what is
the outcome. India says it is ready for dialogue but in the same breath adds
that Jammu Kashmir is an integral part of India. India has never had a
realistic approach on Kashmir and they only want to talk through force.
India’s stand is that as per the
United Nations’ resolutions on Kashmir, Pakistan too has to vacate its Army
from Pakistan administered Kashmir?
When I talked to General Parvez
Musharaff, he said if India agrees to holding a referendum in Kashmir, Pakistan
was ready to vacate its Army. Unfortunately, India does not have a realistic
approach on Kashmir.
After 9/11, things have changed.
India signed a civil nuclear deal with the US. Did 9/11 have a bearing on
Kashmir issue? The United Nations does not do anything to prevent wars but we
keep going back to these institutions seeking resolution of Kashmir. Why?
After 9/11, Muslims countries have
been ravaged. Afghanistan and Iraq are the best examples of aggression. Even
General Musharaff bowed before the US after 9/11. But the realities and the
truth do not change by such events. United Nations resolutions are the basis of
Kashmir issue. India and Pakistan are signatories to it and entire world
community is witness. We should not forget our history and the basis of our
dispute. India cannot shy away from reality but they are suffering from the
arrogance of power, which is not long lasting. The British Empire had to give
up their colonies and so will India. L K Advani once said India is holding on
to Kashmir only because of its Army. Things change. Nothing is permanent.
Local youth are again getting
attracted toward militancy. How do you see the role of militants in Kashmir
movement?
The youth, especially our educated
youth, have now started feeling being under occupation. They cannot bear more
humiliation. They are ready to die for Kashmir cause. Now youth are aware how
Indian Army is looting our resources and killing our people. Armed youth always
had a role and their role is most important for the Kashmir movement. Their
rights are snatched due to India’s brute force and India’s guns. So the youth
don’t have any option but to pick up guns. It is good that they are doing it.
However, they should never trample the human rights of people, never trespass
them.
So you think violence is the only
option?
We cannot call it violence. These
youth are fighting for their rights with different means. In Norway, 77
innocent people were killed by a gunman. That is one form of terrorism. Another
form of terrorism is when Daesh or Boko Haram kills innocent people without
reason like attacks in Paris. And the third form of terrorism is the state
terrorism like India is doing in Kashmir. The state terrorism is the worst form
of all terrorism. The worst example of state terrorism is what the US did in
Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel does in Palestine and India in Kashmir.
In today’s world, do you support or
justify the role of gun?
I disown gun because India is
occupying us on the basis of guns.
But at the same time you are saying
you are happy that local youth are picking guns?
Picking up guns is one of the options
for our youth to fight India’s aggression.
Wherefrom are our youth getting guns
now?
You can ask the youth.
A Kashmiri youth killed in a drone
attack in FATA had also joined Al-Qaeda. Do you endorse Kashmiris joining
Al-Qaeda or Daesh?
We neither support Al-Qaeda nor
Daesh. I request all Kashmiri youth not to raise Daesh flags or Al-Qaeda flags
or join either groups.
But every Friday some youth
unfurl Daesh flags?
All these boys are immature. They
should see what Daesh is doing in the Middle East. Islam gets a bad name
because of Daesh.
Is it only to irritate India?
May be it is.
You said Kashmiris should not support
Al-Qaeda? But when Osama bin Laden was killed you led his funeral prayers in
absentia?
Yes, I did because he was killed
unarmed. And if any unarmed person is killed, he or she is a martyr.
Some say you saved Omar Abdullah’s
government in 2010 when you appealed for peace. Likewise, you saved Mufti
Muhammad Sayeed’s government this Eid when you appealed Kashmiris not to
slaughter cows openly?
In 2010, it was people who came to me
and said education of children was getting affected and we needed to do away
with hartals. New Delhi forcibly opened many schools in 2010. Cabs and auto
rickshaw drivers were given money by intelligence agencies to ply on roads. The
leadership did not give up in 2010, people did. As far as Mufti government is
concerned, how would it seem if we carried our freedom struggle on the issue of
cow? Islam permits us to slaughter cows but it does not permit us to hurt the
sentiments of other communities. We also have to keep in mind the Muslims
living in Jammu region.
But one of the senior members of your
group openly slaughtered a cow?
Yes, her group is a constituent of
our Hurriyat but she should not have done that.
Jamaat-e-Islami is a
politico-religious organization but they have winded up the politics part. You
should have been the face of Jamaat? Why do you and Jamaat work separately?
They should have been at the
forefront of the resistance movement. Unfortunately, they are tired now. They
are not ready to go to jails. They are not even ready to be under house arrest.
They now only want to spread Islamic teaching. Apart from this they are not
bothered about anything.
There are also reports of active
participation of Jamaat in elections.
We also received similar reports
about Kulgam. We then brought it to their notice too. They responded saying
that they are investigating the matter and have taken steps accordingly.
Was Jamaat’s siding away from
politics a necessary retreat for the survival of the party? Had they not
retreated in 1990s, Jamaat would have been finished?
The sacrifices rendered by the Jamaat
are tremendous. There is no doubt about it. Especially, during the Ikhwan
(renegades) era, they suffered the most. But after sacrificing so much they
left the struggle midway. They should have avoided it. The sacrifices rendered
by them should have been preserved.
Was it possible without a retreat?
When they decided to delink
themselves from politics under the leadership Ghulam Muhammad Bhat sahib, I was
against the decision. They should not have taken such a step after sacrificing
so much.
Ghulam Muhammad Bhat is again the
Amir of Jamaat-e-Islami? How do you see it?
Jamaat now will again follow the same
policies of liberalisation. Jamaat will again follow whatever his decision will
be.
But Jamaat workers are still with
you? Is it that only Jamaat hierarchy isn’t accepting you?
In August 2004, Nazir Ahmad Kashani
sahib, the then Amir Jamaat told me that the Jamaat cadre tells him to change
the working of the Jamaat. We called a meeting of the Jamaat and District
Presidents Qazi Ahmadullah sahab asked the Amir Jamaat that a meeting of the
Jamaat cadre should be called. Even a delegation went to meet the Amir but he
did not allow the meeting because he knew that if they allowed the meeting of
the cadre, they will change the working of the Jamaat. But on August 1, 2004,
he called a meeting of the Shoora. This Shoora decided that a cadre meeting
should not be allowed but if Geelani wants to pursue Kashmir issue, he should
be allowed to float a separate party. Entire Shoora signed the paper with
consent and even proposed the name Tehreek-e-Hurriyat for my party. It was a
pact signed between Jamaat and us that we should always help each other. So we
laid the foundation of Tehreek-e-Hurriyat on August 7, 2004.
You have been stopped to offer Friday
congregational prayers for the 32nd week in a row. How do you deal with it?
It is very painful that I am not able
to offer Friday prayer and even Eid prayers. For a practicing Muslim,
it is very heart rendering.
And how do you spend your days in
house arrest?
I receive delegations from every walk
of life especially the youth. I even do not get time to read newspapers. I
keenly read Rising Kashmir editorials.
Youth follow you more than the
elderly. Why? Is it because they are idealistic while the elderly are
realistic?
It is only because our older people
had connections with NC or Congress. They are still stuck with dynastic
politics.
Youth do come to me and say their
families are either with NC or Congress supporters but they are with the
freedom struggle.
Who is going to be your successor? In
NC, Sheikh Abdullah transferred the power to Farooq Abdulah who in turn
transferred it to Omar Abdullah. Similarly, in PDP, Mufti Muhammad Sayeed is
about to pass on the baton to Mehbooba? Is Nayeem Geelani or Naseem Geelani
going to succeed a Syed Ali Geelani?
I haven’t named anyone as my
successor. Hurriyat has its own constitution. Majlis-e-Shoora will choose my
successor. It will be with consensus about proper consultations.
Don’t you need to groom your
successor or are you afraid that Government of India will invest in them if you
name them?
I do not need to groom anyone.
Leaders are born, not made.
There were reports that Masrat Alam
Bhat was going to be your successor? Where those reports correct?
In a rally in Islamabad, I had named
three persons as my possible successors. Muhammad Ashraf Sehrai sahab, Ghulam
Nabi Sumji sahab and Masrat Alam but then I reversed my decision in writing and
also asked people to forgive me for my decision. It was against my principles
to appoint a successor.
Do you regret taking part in
Legislative Assembly elections in the past?
No, I don’t. I still think that it
was the right decision at that time.
It is said that if the liberation of
East Pakistan should not have taken place in 1971, Sheikh Abdullah would not have
entered into an accord with Indira Gandhi in 1975?
Sheikh sahab entered into that accord
due to his family’s pressure not because of the creation of Bangladesh.
In one of his speeches at Hazratbal,
which I also attended, he said Kashmiri nation can say, I committed a blunder
but not a betrayal. Then I asked him in New Delhi what blunder was he referring
to, he said joining hands with India. He said Kashmiris should not believe
India anymore. For 22 years of his life, he never accepted India but then betrayed
us at the last moment. He was a towering personality and surrendering after 22
years was a betrayal with Kashmiris. That moment spoiled everything he stood
for. He only surrendered for power in front of New Delhi. After the accord, he
joined hands with Congress who he used to refer to as Gaandi naali ke keedey.
Is Sheikh Abdullah alone to be blamed
for or where the people of Kashmir also responsible in his case?
Sheikh sahab is responsible because
he was an unparalleled leader at that time. The British are also responsible.
They played a dual role. Hari Singh is also responsible as being a Hindu, he
wanted to go with the Hindu nation. At that time, Pakistan too did not play its
role well. Moulana Maududi was the last man to reach Lahore in August 1947.
Then on August 29, 1947, he met Nawab Mamnoon, the Governor of Lahore. He
clearly said to him that if they did not act now on Kashmir then they can never
achieve Kashmir. He even advised him to send retired army men to wrest Kashmir.
But Nawab Mamnoon responded to him by saying leave politics to politicians and
follow his religious programmes. Then the Moulana met Chaudary Muhammad Ali but
he also did not pay heed. It was also one of the factors as well. Had Sheikh
sahab resented against sending forces here, things would have been different.
Even when Patel, Nehru and Gandhiji were discussing about sending the Army to
Kashmir, Sheikh who was in another room was waiting for their decision and
later advised them to send Army to Kashmir. Had he advised against it, things
would have been different. That why Sheikh is responsible for all the mess in
Kashmir.
Any message for the people?
Allah is all powerful. If we bring
Taqwah and Ikhlas among us, Allah will help us. India, the US or any other
power are nothing in front of Allah. As far as our stand about Jammu Kashmir is
concerned, India in Kashmir is only because of its guns. And parties like NC,
Congress and PDP are here only to make this occupation stronger. People should
never vote for these parties. We Muslims should stay united. One Fiqh should
not fight another. Another important thing is that after we achieve
independence from India, such a system should be in place where everyone should
feel safe and everyone is taken care off.
Source: RK