Hello fandom family! Sorry I’ve been a bit MIA. Tried to keep up the posting but it was a bit quiet out there. Hiatus is so looooong.
NOT TODAY THOUGH!!!!
Today was an Olicity Marketing Blitz day and boy it was fun. About damn time.
Stephen and Emily were playing together on Twitter.
The CW Network was promoting Olicity on TWITTER.
And Marc did a big interview with EW. There were lots of goodies!
Today was the marketing equivalent of an ex sending flowers.
They are sorry fandom. Here comes the woo.
So, I wanted to talk a bit about the interview with Marc. There so many times I talk about interviews when they seem negative or are negative. I thought it’d be a nice change of pace to focus on a really great interview! As usual I have lots of thoughts…
I’m going to address the questions/answers I found most interesting.
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Now that Oliver knows Prometheus’ vendetta is personal, what’s his next move?
MARC GUGGENHEIM: He learned two critical things in the midseason finale that will help him track down and identify Prometheus: He learned that Prometheus and he share a trainer, and he learned that Prometheus obviously was Justin Claybourne’s illegitimate son. That gives him two good clue trails to be following. He’ll be doing that in fits and starts as the season kicks back up.
Prometheus is OBVIOUSLY Justin Claybourne’s
illegitimate
son?
I readily accept this is probably wishful thinking on my part, but isn’t that part of the problem? That it’s so freaking obvious that it’s too obvious? Marc’s use of the word “obvious” feels like a hard sell to me. I don’t buy this Justin Claybourne backstory. No sir. Ashes and a baby picture and TA DA????? No.
I’m calling
shenanigans. There’s more to this. I sense a misdirect.
How does Prometheus force Oliver to reassess his decisions?
This goes to the larger arc of the year, which is Oliver questioning the consequences of his actions in general. What has been the prevailing theme of the season is Oliver is trying to grow and develop as a person, but the actions of his past keep literally haunting him, so it’s going to affect Oliver in a very big way going forward for the rest of the year.
I could meta on this alone, so prep for a long answer. I feel
like this is Marc speak for “Oliver is becoming the light.” In reality,
what season hasn’t Oliver’s darkness or past haunted him in some way? Pretty
much every season right? The point of this season is trying to move him across
the finish line of this five year journey. Part of that process is regression.
We watch Oliver regress every season. In fact, his development as a hero and as
a man has been a painfully slow (and frustrating) process. It’s one of the
reasons I’m excited to drop this five year arc because I think it will free
Arrow up a bit narratively.
However, this season has seen a lot of emotional progress from
Oliver. He’s inherently more hopeful. He’s been more TRUTHFUL. The one area Arrow hit the rewind button
on a bit is the kill/no kill vow because
they wanted Oliver’s evolution in that department to be a bit more pronounced.
This started in Season 4, with Laurel’s death and killing Damien Darhk. In the
season where Oliver was trying to live in the light, he chose to kill. Doesn’t
necessarily make his choice wrong. Damien Darhk was seriously evil. Nukes = bad
news. But it does provide a layer of “grey” in the development of his moral
code.
This season, the Big Bad is literally a creation from Oliver
killing. That’s intentional. Arrow has often used the kill/no kill philosophy
as a metaphor for Oliver’s evolving morality. They stuck him in a squarely grey
zone at the beginning of the season because I think they want him to end this
year with a much firmer moral code.
That’s not to say that Oliver will never kill again - because
yes there are bad guys who need to be killed. But they specifically echoed the
first kill in the pilot. Thea even argued with Oliver over the necessity of
killing that man in 5x01. She specifically didn’t join the team because she
wasn’t prepared to do “whatever it takes” like Oliver now is (because of
Laurel’s death).
Oliver strongly feels that he needs to kill Prometheus - as will
Felicity. So, this is going to be a nice push/pull effect on him and part of
that process is seeing the effect the “Darkness” is having on his loved
ones (Felicity & Diggle). It may ultimately push Oliver to a point where
he’s toeing a much brighter line. Different in a way than Season 2, because a
moral code is bigger than just killing or not killing. But I think Oliver will
reach for the moral high ground in a way he never has before because he HAS to.
Those he loves need him to because they are losing their own way.
How different is Talia to Nyssa al Ghul (Katrina Law)?
She’s definitely her own person; she’s not a Nyssa clone, by any stretch. You can definitely sense a familial resemblance. Having Ra’s al Ghul as your dad, it’s likely to forge a very specific kind of person. They’re close enough and different enough that I would love, at some point, to do a story with Nyssa and Talia. I think that would be a lot of fun.
Just gonna say I am excited about Talia. My Batman adoration demands it.
Can you talk about how the team will react to Laurel’s return?
I would say they react pretty positively. Obviously, this is wonderful news. We have a very good explanation as to how Laurel returned. The team is, by and large, pretty happy. Bear in mind, there are a few members of the team that didn’t know Laurel, so it’s fun to see their reaction, especially when they learn that time travel played a role in it.
Isn’t it cute when Marc blatantly ignores that the promo department ruined his episode?
Again, another misdirect. I think in a similar vein to the “obviously.” It’s not Laurel. It’s Black Siren. Sure, time travel had something to do with it, but it’s not bringing Laurel back. To all those worrying that somehow this is a huge redemption storyline for Black Siren and they are bringing Katie back…
Listen… if they wanted Katie on the show they wouldn’t be hiring a new BC. That’s just the ugly truth. Furthermore, they are trying to launch the new BC which gets tricky if Katie is around every few episodes. My bet? They used this guest contract to bridge the gap between LL and the new BC for the comic purists in hopes they could draw them back in. Anywho, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Arrow side of her contract is closing out and they shift her to Legends for a couple guest spots.
What can you tease for Felicity moving forward? She wants revenge on Prometheus over the death of Malone (Tyler Ritter), so how dark will she go and how far will she go to get it?
This is something we went into the season with. At the beginning of every year, we figure out: What do we want to see our characters go through? What are their emotional journeys for the season? We were intrigued by the idea of Felicity flirting with the dark side. The reason I say flirting is Felicity is very much the light of the show; she provides a lot of lightness in what is otherwise a very dark drama. One thing you don’t want to do is you don’t want to tell a story where she suddenly starts becoming this dark element. You don’t want to tell a story where all the reasons why people love the character are gone. It’s this delicate balancing act.
In the wake of Malone’s death, she’s very influenced by her prior four years of watching Oliver and Diggle — and Laurel, Roy (Colton Haynes), and Thea (Willa Holland) for that matter. She’s been watching Team Arrow respond to darkness with what I would describe as moral compromise. What we’ve done is we’ve found a story where Felicity could be tempted by taking moral shortcuts in the name of the greater good, which is very much in keeping with the central dilemma at the heart of the whole show, which is becoming judge, jury, and executioner is the ultimate moral shortcut. She’s not going to become judge, jury, and executioner, she’s not going to become a killer, but we found the Felicity version, or the Felicity equivalent, of making a moral compromise in order to accomplish good.
Many have heard me complain about Arrow’s “Don’t Mess With
The Rainbow” mentality when it comes to Felicity and this entire answer makes
me feel a lot better. I think it strikes the perfect balance. First, it seems Arrow is recognizing that Felicity has been through a lot (DUH) and they really haven’t allowed her experience the effects of those events on a big level (also duh). It seems they are going there. FINALLY. It’s time. It needs to happen. I am thrilled.
BUT… we don’t need
Felicity to be Oliver’s version of dark. Or Diggle’s. Or Laurel’s. Or Thea’s.
We need Felicity’s version of dark to be like everything else with this
character: Felicity’s darkness should be uniquely HER.
What struck me, for the first time that I can think
of, Marc came out and said “judge, jury and executioner” is wrong. This
applies strongly to OTA. Oliver, obviously, has embraced the “judge, jury
and executioner” mentality. Diggle, who normally was the moral compass for
Oliver, chose to be “judge, jury and executioner” for Andy. Both of these
men are morally justified in their actions, but Marc stating flat out that it’s
a moral shut cut is extremely telling. They are pushing all the characters, not
just Oliver, to be BETTER. To be heroes. Heroes draw the moral line in the
sand and they HOLD TO IT. Because at the end of the day, that’s all that
separates them from the bad guys and it’s what keeps them from becoming the bad
guys. It’s not always easy. In fact, it’s often the much more difficult path, but it’s the right one to take.
It’s why Prometheus is having such a strong impact and why he’s the
perfect villain for S5. OLIVER IS THE VILLAIN in his eyes. Oliver needs to come to a place where that perception cannot happen. Where even the bad guys cannot deny he is the light.
So, it’s essential
that Felicity be pushed this darker place too. Where she is judge, jury and
executioner. Where she takes moral short cuts. She’s on a hero’s journey as much as Oliver and we need to see Felicity’s moral code tested as well. But it doesn’t have to equal
killing. It’ll be Felicity’s version of dark and immoral, which should strike a
contrast to Oliver’s. Yes, she is so often the light, but the whole point of
pushing Felicity to the dark is so that OLIVER is forced to be the light FOR
HER. It’s pushing them both to a place where they absolutely need to go.
Having been through situations like this himself, will Oliver be able to help Felicity navigate this? Or is she pushing everyone away?
I don’t think she’s really pushing everyone away, but she’s definitely on her own path. The best answer to the question is it’s neither one or the other fully. Oliver for sure will be trying to — not help her — but give her some guidance. In episode 12, both Diggle and Felicity, for different reasons, are flirting with some darkness in their lives. Oliver basically, in this really great moment, tells both Felicity and Diggle, “Look, I’m basically a dark dude, I do bad things, but the ship has sailed with me. The whole reason I am aligned with you guys is because you guys are fundamentally just better people, you guys are more moral than I am.” Part of the fun of that episode is seeing how that advice to both Diggle and Felicity operates on them. It’s not necessarily going to operate on them the same way.
I’ve been harping on this concept of
Oliver and Felicity walking in each other’s shoes this season. Being able to
understand your partner’s perspective, in a real way, is a great catalyst for change. Thus, the shift in roles is absolutely necessary. First, this show is
about Oliver Queen. He is destined to become The Green Arrow. He’s suppose to
be the light for everyone and that INCLUDES FELICITY. In many ways, Felicity is
echoing Oliver’s darker path in S3. It was Felicity who wanted to live life to
the fullest and held the line even when Oliver lost his way. She
harnessed the light within Oliver and he found his way out of the dark… and
back home to her.
Now, they are shifting roles in S5. Felicity was always a voice
of guidance for Oliver, but Oliver always made his own choices. I believe it
will be the same for Felicity. What’s interesting about Marc’s “the ship
has sailed” dialogue, is the impact that it will have on Diggle and Felicity. I
predict two things: One, Diggle will toe the moral line again more immediately.
Felicity will not. Diggle’s darker spiral is ending. Felicity’s is just
beginning.
It’s not going to be enough for Oliver to say, “I’m a dark
person. You guys are have always been better than me,” this time. That’s the
status quo with Oliver and Felicity. Felicity won’t shift her behavior post
5x12, which will probably lead to whatever deception Oliver discovers in 5x15.
It could push Oliver to realize that the status quo has to change. He has to
set the example this time. He has to provide the guidance through action, just
like Felicity has always done for him. The ship can’t sail for Oliver because
that means it will have sailed for FELICITY. I don’t think Oliver can abide by
that.
In the end, of course, Oliver will harness Felicity’s light just
like she’s always done for him. She will find her way out of this darker
place. My bet is all of this is the foundation for Smoak Technologies and
she’ll find a renewed purpose in what she wants to do outside of Team Arrow,
just like Oliver has found in being mayor. Seeing the change in Oliver (in
action - his hopefulness, his truthfullness, being the light, etc), understanding his darkness on a deeper
level because Felicity will recognize her own darkness in herself, maybe even
Oliver’s forgiveness for whatever deception there is… this all leads back to
one singular concept: Felicity will find her way back home to Oliver in the
end. Only this time… he will be the man she’s always deserved. He’ll be ready
for her in every way. It feels like they are on opposite paths, but those paths are actually a ying/yang effect. They aren’t separate. They are connected… and it all leads back to one another.
Diggle seems to be facing the consequences of being set up by his C.O. head-on now. What’s next for him?
Coming into the second half of the season, we felt a very strong impulse to basically bring the whole General Walker storyline from the beginning of the year to a conclusion. There’s a reason why we returned Diggle to prison and it’s all to set up what will be a climactic episode. We’ve dedicated basically a whole episode to resolving the General Walker storyline. What’s nice about that episode, that’s episode 12, is that it ties into Oliver’s Russia storyline, it ties into Felicity’s storyline, and it even echoes back to the Diggle storyline with his brother last season. So a lot of threads get tied together and some threads get tied up in that 12th episode.
I know many are frustrated about the
lack of OTA and I understand. I’m ready for them to key up more OTA eps too. However, I look at Oliver, Diggle and Felicity as
the three main leads. The fact that Arrow’s primary season arc is connected in
an obvious way to all three characters gives me a lot of hope for 5B. 5A is
always set up (and to a certain extent 4B). I think 5B will finally be the follow
through that connectively binds these characters on completing each of their
hero’s journey. Oliver isn’t the only one who is going through a five year arc.
I think they are preparing to launch Arrow into a new phase come S6. That said,
Diggle needs more attention so I’m glad he’ll be getting some. Sounds like 5x12
will be a HUGE OTA episode which is fantastic because it’s such an wonderful
call back to one of our favorite OTA episodes of all time… the trip to Russia
in 2x06.
What can you tease for the introduction of Tina Boland and what we’ll be seeing for her?
You’ll get a glimpse of her at the end of the midseason premiere. It’s funny, I don’t want to tease too much about her. There’s a lot of stuff that’s out on the internet in terms of casting breakdowns, which I hate talking about because a lot of the casting breakdowns we release are false because we know they leak. But I think we have a really wonderful character here. Juliana [Harkavy], who plays her, is a terrific actress. We’re going to be doing some new and different kinds of things. Because of the internet, I guess I’m very tempted to — as always — I’d prefer to let the story tell itself and play out, and then people can make up their minds.
It’s
really interesting that Marc mentioned the leaked sides for Tina again. When they first came out he tried to pretend it was all fake,
but of course, this was the casting side that was sent out to all the actresses
who were auditioning for Tina. So, it became pretty obvious they weren’t fake.
He also tried to pretend the character’s name wasn’t Tina. So, when the
character’s name was revealed to be Tina I think many took that as a sign that
these “sides” would be actual scenes in Arrow.
The reason it had so many concerned is because there was
a “chemistry” read with, presumably, Oliver. Many concluded Tina will be a
love interest. Also, the BC comic history reared its ugly head in combination
with a subtle/back burned Olicity and its led to a lot of concern. Here’s why I
think it’s interesting that Marc mentioned the sides- if these scenes show up
in Arrow it’ll be very easy to point to his interview and say, “Ummm… they
aren’t false.” So, I’m feeling pretty confident those exact scenes won’t be in
the show. I think his larger point is that some of the assumptions the
internet is making about Tina’s character, based on the sides, isn’t
necessarily true and we’ll see that when the show plays out.
So, I continue to stand my belief that Tina is not a love interest for Oliver.
We know Oliver is going to end up back on that island. We know Susan Williams (Carly Pope) is investigating Oliver’s ties to Russia. How are those two storylines going to intersect as we head toward the finale this season?
There’s going to be a very cool and awesome payoff to Susan’s investigation of Oliver. That payoff is going to come sooner than you think. In other words, it’s going to come sooner than the season finale.
Susan discussion, yes, but she’s at the end of the article and
it’s a blurb at best. Vast improvement promotionally speaking. Marc just flat
out told us that Susan’s investigation is going to blow up BEFORE the season
finale. IMDB has Carly Pope slated for 5x12, 5x14 and 5x15. Perhaps the
investigation blow up is happening around these run of episodes? Especially coinciding
with the Bratva focused episode in 5x12? Methinks yes.
I think some are wondering how Oliver and Felicity
can “rebuild” if Susan is still around. This isn’t an either or situation
in terms of storyline my friends. It can happen simultaneously and it will
happen simultaneously. Think back to Ray and Sara. Oliver and Felicity were
very much “building” their relationship (and where it was headed)
throughout the full season WHILE they were dating other people. As Oliver and
Felicity grew closer, Ray and Felicity fell apart. Sara was slightly different
timing wise, but she imploded around the mid season as well, with Oliver
finding his way to Felicity in the end. It is possible for Arrow
to “rebuild” Olicity while Susan Williams is sharing screen time with
Oliver. Susan can be playing a role in that rebuild in her, ultimately, failed
relationship with Oliver and what it will teach him. Think of it as multiple
lanes of traffic eventually converging into a single lane. Multiple storylines
eventually push to one singular end. That’s what is happening this year. That
is what happens every year. ALL ROADS LEAD TO OLICITY.
So don’t fret about when Susan is leaving or when she and Oliver
will be done. They will be done. She will leave. It will happen. Understandable
if you don’t enjoy the storyline and would rather it be sooner than later, but
the end result is still the same.
Psst… did you notice? Not a word about the newbies other than Tina. Nice change in pace! All in all… I am very pumped for the rest of the season!!