Leinster club representatives appeared reasonably receptive to a “full Irish Hockey League” following the IHA forum last night in the Stillorgan Park Hotel though there were fears over the potential nature of promotion and relegation while there were calls to investigate a two-tier system.
The forum followed similar debates in Munster and Ulster in the past week as part of the IHL working groups ongoing consultation process to see if the hockey community wanted a full season Irish Hockey League.
Lisa Jacob says that a full IHL will be of huge benefit to the Irish national team Pic: Adrian Boehm
To this end, they placed a sample competition format on the table with five Ulster, five Leinster and two Munster sides taking part as a means to gain input. In front of a packed room, Inez Cooper, chair of the IHL working group, along with Ian MacDonnell presented the proposed league and how this would effect respective clubs and stakeholders. You can see that presentation here.
Among those to speak at the event, the interim Irish senior men’s coach Mick McKinnon was keen to point out how playing more games against higher quality opposition would be a huge benefit to the international team.
“It’s very difficult to explain to people the gap there is between Leinster league and international hockey. it is so big,” he said. “To expect guys to go from a Leinster league game to an international game is just too big. I know this doesn’t overly reduce the games but it will improve the quality and adds another stepping stone from club to international hockey.
Senior internationals Conor Harte and Lisa Jacob made impassioned speeches with the hope that this suggestion will become a reality with view similar to McKinnon.
Jacob, who now plays with SCHC in the Netherlands, says this would be a huge boost to the standard of hockey the Irish players as they pursue reaching an elite world event. “I have played in the Irish team a good few years,” she said. “We have been sitting at 14 or 15 in the world rankings with most of the major competitions being for the world’s top 12 and on the edge of qualifying of the Olympics.
“I have gone to Holland because I really want to improve my game and help the national team get where we want to be. From the Irish team, we would really like to see a full IHL. I think it is really progressive and would really help us push for what we are trying to do.”
Harte added: “If you play week in or week out and have 11 of those tough games, you will prepare accordingly because you can’t take any team for granted. If you have the best teams playing each other and the others not in the IHL against like-minded teams, they will all prepare to the best of their ability rather than looking to survive against a bigger team.
“If you have 12 teams preparing the same way, going to the gym because they know they have to, that increases the pool of players who can step up to the national squad. From the elite side, it really needs to happen.”
The make-up of the league, though, was questioned with many calling for a league based on a meritocracy rather than the proposed regional split. On a similar note, Corinthian’s Dan Treacy suggested that a two-tier Irish Hockey League – with direct promotion and relegation between divisions and also with the provincial leagues – would be preferable.
This suggestion drew a lot of support from the room with representative from Muckross and UCD roundly endorsing this proposal for investigation. Their concerns were based upon the need for movement between divisions for proper competition while also limiting the effect of “player migration” .
Indeed, this was a serious sticking point for a number of reasons. In the case of Leinster men’s club, nine different sides have played in the Irish Hockey League with six – Pembroke, TRR, Glenanne, YMCA, Corinthian and Monkstown – reaching at least the semi-final stages. Those currently on the periphery with aspirations of making it back into the competition are worried that players may be forced to move to further international ambitions, some under duress from international coaches.
Speaking from a personal point of view, Glenanne’s Gary Shaw said that it could also affect his international career if he were to stay with his family club.
“I am part of the Irish training squad now. I will never leave Glenanne – being a Leinster league player in this format, an Irish coach is never going to see me play. My concern is if I don’t join an IHL club, does that mean I will never get a chance to be seen by a national coach? From a player migration point of view, will we have to then leave to be in the frame for international squads? I think the IHL is a brilliant idea but I would be very concerned.”
Monkstown Director of Coaching Trevor Watkins implored people not be “afraid of change”
Despite costs being mentioned in previous forums, the discussion of how expensive it would be to run did not evoke a huge amount of debate while McKinnon and Cooper – based on suggestions from the Munster forum – also down-played travel concerns, something that was not overly discussed.
Tom O’Donoghue, a former IHA board member and current UCD ladies second team coach, made the point that an integrated plan for all levels of Irish hockey would be required to make this work possibly rather than tinkering with elements. Indeed, this issue is of particular importance when the tension between club and school hockey was taken into account.
In Ulster, this appeared to be a deal-breaking issue. From a Leinster perspective, the playing and coaching of schools hockey on Saturday mornings may not be as pressing but it is something that Jaimee Claxton, the current Hermes coach and a former New Zealand international, says appears to more priority than club competition in her experience since arriving in Ireland.
“Part of that is the profile and I think the IHL is the perfect thing to get young people involved in playing and it will put more of a focus on high performance. At the moment in this country, from my experience, the priority is on school hockey and this might turn it around to some extent.”
She added that if there is an elite competition, this would be able to provide a much needed profile for the sport that can be used at bringing more players into the sport while also retaining others.
The most rousing words came from Monkstown director of coaching Trevor Watkins who implored those present not to be afraid of change and says that a full Irish Hockey League can provide huge motivation for clubs to get their structures in order to develop.
“The word change doesn’t come easy to everyone. It brings with it the fear of the unknown and generally, we have taken the conservative route. The sport internationally has changed; who thought of no offside? Hockey was the first sport. Roll on, roll off subs? Hockey. Who thought of the auto-pass? Hockey. All of those rules have revolutionised our game. Our leagues are the oldest in the hockey world.
“The FIH have changed dramatically in their competition structures. One of the reason we have the fixture glut like this year, is because the FIH’s own calendar is jammed. I travel and talk with other people in the FIH. Those concerns are around the world. Ten years ago, Belgium and Ireland were ranked in exactly the same place in European hockey. Today, since they introduced their national league, they are serious contenders for a podium position in Rio in 2016. The numbers of people playing the game has increased 10 fold and tv is there. Its the sexiest sport to be involved.
“In England – while they have the money, it has been predicated on the success of their national teams. Now, they have their national league and the competition in their provincial leagues is at the highest level that it has ever been.
“When the IHL came in, my club Monkstown were not in it and we were scared stiff. What happened? The structures have been there for a while and it took a few years to get in. You look at where we are today and we should be an example to the smaller clubs of what can be achieved. Don’t under-estimate what can be done and what change can do. Yes, there were glitches the first time [the IHL was introduced] but embrace it. The current format has served its usefulness. Be committed to your club and have the confidence to improve them. I hope the IHL comes in sooner rather than later. With a bit of luck, hockey will be the sexiest game in town.”
What they said:
Mick McGuinness (Suttonians/LHA men’s chairman) “what were the thoughts merit-based or maintain the provincial numbers?”
Inez Cooper (IC), IHL chair, replied: “In Munster there was a flavour of both that meritocracy and regional basis would be favourable. That’s what competition is. But we need to ensure that our sport is seen to be played all around the country, especially in terms of player migration. It is a tricky balance to achieve.”
Dan Treacy (Corinthian) “has anyone looked at doing a two-tier national league with a meritocracy in which water comes to its own level? There has been Leinster sides that have done very well in the IHL who haven’t qualified this year. There’s a huge jump in this; this would shorten the jump if you had a second tier and there would be a higher level to the top tier.”
IC reply – “it would be much easier to achieve a meritocracy in this system. It is something we thought there might be a bit of resistance too and was something that might come further down the road. It came up at both forums.
Ian MacDonnell: “It is not as simple as that. Part of the league is that there needs to be a fairness on the amount of travel. If there was eight Leinster teams in the league and then two from Munster and Ulster, then it would be uneven. In time, that kind of thing will be on the agenda in two or three years.
John Flannery (LHA board member) pointed out Leinster leagues are currently the strongest and financially of late – “are we in danger of breaking something that isn’t already broken? If we destroy something that already works for something that might work, could the new model be the death knell of the branches and then what would be the long term effect for the IHA and the senior hockey team?”
Ronan Pelow (Corinthian) “I am concerned this was not part of the strategic plan. Also, I am concerned that players will not be tapped on the shoulder by national coaches to say you must play with an IHL and wanted to receive assurances that such practices would not be allowed or condoned and if a national coach was to do so that it “would not just be a sacking offence, but a resigning issue”. He also suggested that there should be a whistleblower policy for this eventuality.
Gary Shaw (Glenanne) “I am part of the Irish training squad now. I will never leave Glenanne – being a Leinster league player in this format, an Irish coach is never going to see me play. My concern is if I don’t join an IHL does that mean I will never get a chance to be seen by a national coach? From a player migration point of view, will we have to then leave to be in the frame for international squads? I think the IHL is a brilliant idea but I would be very concerned.
Gareth Watkins (Monkstown) “player migration could work both ways. As a player in my late 20s, with career becoming a bigger factor. With the travel and the time commitment the IHL represents, this could also see a migration from the IHL clubs back to the provincial clubs, something I understand happened in the UK that players found they needed to move down.”
Sinead McCarthy (Hermes) “The Leinster league being reconfigured could be to the benefit of the competition in the second layer of hockey with the reduction of teams being beaten eight of nine nil as they are currently, certainly in the women’s side. Currently, there is already two-tiers in the Leinster league. Taking out the top five would make the Leinster league more competitive”
Interim Irish men’s senior coach Mick McKinnon says that the gap between Leinster league and international hockey is huge Pic: Adrian Boehm
Mick McKinnon (current interim Irish men’s senior coach) “I was in England when the Premier League was founded and the issue of player migration was suggested. You find that the two top teams in England were not in the inaugural Premier League; they are teams that developed a bottom-up structure and developed their own players. The only way to become a national power is to develop your club from within. It is an incentive for non-IHL teams to develop their own players.”
In relation to the Irish senior squad, he said: “it’s very difficult to explain to people the gap there is between Leinster league and international hockey. it is so big. To expect guys to go from a Leinster league game to an international game is just too big. I know this doesn’t overly reduce the games but it will improve the quality and adds another stepping stone from club to international hockey.
Paddy Conlon (Pembroke): He was “concerned for Munster clubs travelling, it could be to the detriment of hockey generally albeit I am in favour of an extended IHL”
IC said that “this may be a misconception in a similar manner to something that a Raphoe member said; from a Munster perspective, there was a feeling this could be a spur to get their house in order and travel was not an issue”.
PC asked: “Has there been any look across the board at England, Belgium, Germany, Holland or Spain where a national league does work?”
IC replied: “No; looking at Belgium, they did a root and branch change to their structures, tackling their club structures and their schools. It’s not only their competition change but their player numbers have shot up; it has been fascinating.”
Sally-Ann Fanagan (Loreto) “will the international players be available for these big matches?” IC – “it would depend on the season. There would be more flexibility in this structure to stop for one or two weekends where necessary. Currently, there is little to no facility to accommodate this”.
Jaimee Claxton (Hermes, former New Zealand international) “For me, the IHL is about the high performance programme and countries that are doing it are doing it for what is best for the international players. Once you get your international team performing, you start getting people interested in the sport and start stacking up numbers. I don’t think migration is a problem; retention is a problem. Part of that is the profile and I think the IHL is the perfect thing to get young people involved in playing and it will put more of a focus on high performance. At the moment in this country, from my experience, the priority is on school hockey and this might turn it around to some extent.”
Jantien Findlater (Genesis) “I played in Holland in what was then a provincial competition. At that time, they had less players than Ireland before changing to a national league. There is an enormous benefit in having that profile.”
Declan Hughes (Dublin City FM) “media profile given the amount of people playing is abysmal. Has there been any commitment from media outlets to cover the game properly should the IHL be introduced?
Keith Crawford (Pembroke ladies coach) “The side is currently sixth trying to break into the IHL. My main concern is that if there is no automatic promotion and relegation that we will be stuck there and there is a glass sealing.
Trevor Watkins (Director of Coaching at Monkstown)
“The word change doesn’t come easy to everyone. It brings with it the fear of the unknown and generally, we have taken the conservative route. The sport internationally has changed; who thought of no offside? Hockey was the first sport. Roll on, roll off subs? Hockey. Who thought of the auto-pass? Hockey. All of those rules have revolutionised our game. Our leagues are the oldest in the hockey world. In Pakistan, with about a million playing the game, they wouldn’t even know what a league is. We mustn’t be afraid.
“The FIH have changed dramatically in their competition structures. One of the reason we have the fixture glut like this year, is because the FIH’s own calendar is jammed. I travel and talk with other people in the FIH. Those concerns are around the world. Ten years ago, Belgium and Ireland were ranked in exactly the same place in European hockey. Today, since they introduced their national league, they are serious contenders for a podium position in Rio in 2016. The numbers of people playing the game has increased 10 fold and tv is there. Its the sexiest sport to be involved.
“In England – while they have the money, it has been predicated on the success of their national teams. Now, they have their national league and the competition in their provincial leagues is at the highest level that it has ever been.
“Ireland has the fifth largest hockey populations out of 46 federations. We should not be afraid that we can harness those numbers and get the media onside. Because we haven’t put our head above the parapet, we haven’t gone out there. Ladies rugby is getting half a page in the Irish Times that 3,000 people play and how many of us would get out of bed at 9am on Saturday morning to watch?
“When the IHL came in, we were not in it and we were scared stiff. What happened? The structures have been there for a while and it took a few years to get in. You look at where we are today and we should be an example to the smaller clubs of what can be achieved. Don’t under-estimate what can be done and what change can do. Yes, there were glitches the first time [the IHL was introduced] but embrace it. The current format has served its usefulness. Be committed to your club and have the confidence to improve them. I hope the IHL comes in sooner rather than later. With a bit of luck, it will be the sexiest game in town.
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Andrew Kershaw (Pembroke) “What will we do with the Irish Senior Cup? Oldest competition, will it be devalued as a compeition? It would be a pity to lose that bit of history as a national competition [with a place in Europe for the winner]?” IC – made the point about ranking points being important for the EHL and a concern; maybe there can be a way of offering a playoff for this?
Percy Henchey (LHA President) “We cannot compare the financial state with India but I wouldn’t be afraid of change. A full IHL would no doubt improve the standard of Irish hockey and help us realise reaching an Olympics or a World Cup. Fifteen years ago, though, the IHA came up with a good plan to encourage and promote the game of hockey at clubs like Mullingar, Birr, Carlow, Kilkenny, Marillac, DCU, Bray, Skerries, Naas, Portrane, St Brendans and more. Some have gone; it certainly did improve players in those clubs. But what happened the best players at those clubs moved and it would be detrimental to clubs like the ones I mentioned. The best players move up to the likes of Pembroke, Monkstown or Fingal. How would you offset something like that happening again?
Lisa Jacob, (Hermes/SCHC/Ireland international) “I have played in the Irish team a good few years. We have been sitting at 14 or 15 in the world rankings with most of the major competitions being for the world’s top 12 and on the edge of qualifying of the Olympics. I have gone to Holland because I really want to improve my game and help the national team get where we want to be. From the Irish team, we would really like to see a full IHL. I think it is really progressive and would really help us push for what we are trying to do.
Conor Harte (Pembroke/Ireland international) – “I would like to ask ‘what is the worst that could happen?’ Until you implement, only then will you know what the costs are, what the Munster or Leinster teams feel’ what the sponsors feel? If you play week in or week out and have 11 of those tough games, you will prepare accordingly because you can’t take any team for granted. If you have the best teams playing each other and the others not in the IHL against like-minded teams, they will all prepare to the best of their ability rather than looking to survive against a bigger team.
Glenanne’s Gary Shaw is concerned international chances could be curtailed for those outside the IHL
“If you have 12 teams preparing the same way, going to the gym because they know they have to, that increases the pool of players who can step up to the national squad. From the elite side, it really needs to happen. We have been knocking on that door for four or five years now.
Neil Mackay (umpire) “in other countries, the big games are played at separate times to other games so everyone go and watch; you can get press there. This is something to be considered.
“From an umpires point of view, I am up in Banbridge on Saturday afternoon and I can’t wait. This is the pinnacle of the season, to umpire the top level and the top players so we would love it. I think it really has to happen.
Tom O’Donoghue (UCD coach)
“We need an integrated plan for all the game. Unfortunately, the IHA is too often focussed on the High Performance end of things. I think the IHL is a necessary thing for the elite side of the game. The most interesting thing to be investigated has to be the “two-tier” system because that is the big worry for everyone who is just outside; how do you get in? How do you plan to get there and develop? A two-tier would more than satisfy this.
“I would emphasise do not devalue the Irish Senior and Junior Cup
“As a former board member, I would say, let us not be driven by the Irish Sports Council. I know they are our paymaster but they have driven us in a number of ways in the past but we have been far too often driven by them
“I would question whether we should get rid of the inter pros as one way of reducing the overplaying if we do go toward this IHL.”
Justin Sherriff (UCD administrator/Pembroke coach)
“2014 would be too soon to introduce this” IC – ” there is no timetable set for introducing an IHL.”
“Belgium stopped sport in school and it put the emphasis on clubs to provide. Clubs then got so big with thousands of members. If we had that in our clubs, then we would have the finance to back ourselves so we do need to look at the clubs.
“This isn’t for us. It isn’t going to benefit us now or our international team. It is going to benefit our future kids.”