Guests cannot see quotes in posts. (Yesterday 01:08 PM)BooneT Wrote: Guests cannot see links in posts.
(Yesterday 12:18 PM)Danny Wrote: Guests cannot see links in posts.I admit, Gilmore skirts a lot of things that he shouldn't and it chips away at his credibility. But at least for my money, Gilmore's "tale" is the best, most credible half-assed explanation that we've been given so far from the rest of these circus clowns.
I agree, we shouldn't completely excuse Gilmore but let's stop hanging him out to dry as well. Especially considering the amount of clownishness that Hodel, Wolfe and Larry have shown over the years.
I guess we are going to reopen old wounds, since I cannot forebear your admiration for John Gilmore without comment.
We've covered Stephen Ambrose before too, but his case deserves revisiting. Ambrose was a premier American historian, writing many books about historical figures and events. He was highly regarded and often quoted and interviewed on television. Then, one day, a diligent reader discovered he plagiarized other writers and fabricated seemingly minor details. Almost immediately, his star crashed and burned and no one quotes him or takes him seriously anymore, regardless of the good research and writing that he did. Why? Because he lied to the reader and lost their trust.
John Gilmore was never within a country mile of Stephen Ambrose, even is disgrace. Gilmore is a proven fabricator. Why you blindly overlook his faults and accept his tall tales is inexplicable. There isn't a soul, living or dead, who has ever verified that John Gilmore ever met Jack Wilson or that Jack Wilson ever met Elizabeth Short, yet Gilmore's fairy tale is good enough for you, apparently, because it seems plausible. You are like the tourist in New York who is shown a photo of the Brooklyn Bridge and is offered a good price for it and forks over hard cash. You are the picture of gullibility and Gilmore should be hung out to dry.
Now, Danny, this sounds like a personal attack, but I want you to know that I enjoy your posts and recognize that you make many good observations. I just can't believe that you accept Gilmore on any level, especially after all the time and effort you have put into this story.
I could give some low blows here, but I won't.......or maybe I will.
Boone, where exactly did you take "admiration" out of my comments? I just called Gilmore "half-assed" and implied that he was a "circus clown" along with Wolfe, Hodel and Harnisch. You read all that and think: "That crazy Danny, he really loves his Gilmore." i don't even own any of his books except for(and kicking and screaming at that), "Severed."
I'll admit, I'm more familiar with the arena of popular music rather that popular literature so I will frame a comparison:
Stephen Ambrose vs Led Zeppelin
Familiar with Led Zeppelin at all, Boone? It's a well known fact that they were unapologetic plagiarists ripping off just about everyone. They even got sued and lost, numerous times. But do people care? Not really at all. Old ladies want to still screw the singer's brains out and every senior citizen this side of Alec Baldwin's beer gut still wants to be Jimmy Page while playing air guitar to Side 2 of IV in front of their wife's full length, bedroom mirror.
Same with George Harrison. I'm not a big fan of Harrison's, although I respect him a great deal, but I recently found out that he copped The Chiffon's 1963 hit "He's So Fine" when he wrote his 1970 hit "My Sweet Lord." He even got sued by the song's writer and lost. Although the courts essentially deduced that it wasn't, mostly likely stolen "on purpose." But rather that George, "heard it" numerous times over the year and it was in his "subconscious." Did any of that seem to deter the public's opinion of him? No. He's still one of four familiar faces on Rock and Roll's Mt. Rushmore.
So, while I'm not that familiar with Ambrose, I say he got the shaft.
Also, remember hearing in the news how Republican Senator Rand Paul(KY) plagiarized a number of his speeches recently, earlier this year? Yeah, nothing really became of that either. So let's take off our tiaras, wipe off our eyeliner and lip stick, step down off the soap box, and go find a paper plate and pile on the Little Smokies and potato salad.
So again, I say Ambrose got the shaft. Especially in light of Capote's "career" in "True Crime."
In closing, what Gilmore is to me, is a gauge that shows just how anorexic the author's and "expert's" ultimate conclusions really are here in Black Dahlialand. It goes to show just how low-brow expectations really are. I mean Dr. Zodiac and Dr. Dementia, really? Never mind Bugsy Siegel(which could have been an interesting take but Wolfe even managed to flub that one up). Does that rub your rhubarb the wrong way for some reason?
You called me a sucker, and a sucker I very well, may be......but at least I'm not buying what those suckers are buying from Hodel, Harnisch and Wolfe. So compared to the bridges those three clowns are selling, my bridge ain't looking too bad and I'll drive 18 wheelers across it all week long. I'll be sure to honk the horn every time I pass you at a stand still on your bridge.
Danny, you've thrown in everything (including the kitchen sink) in your defensive, so it would be futile for me to try and respond to every comment you make.
However, I will try to calm the waters and address a couple of issues.
Music and literature are two different animals. All song writers and musicians are influenced by other artists, and they borrow from each other. Leonard Bernstein stole from Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake and Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto when he composed West Side Story for Broadway. Linzer and Randell copied Bach's melody from Minuet in G major to create Lover's Concerto for the Toys.
Brian Wilson wrote Surfin' USA for the Beach Boys, but later had to relinquish credit to Chuck Berry who wrote the original melody for Sweet Little Sixteen. And so it goes, including My Sweet Lord and Stairway to Heaven.
Non-fiction literature is another thing. You can be influenced by other writers, but you cannot plagiarize.
Now, as far as you and Severed are concerned, this forum is full of your praise for John Gilmore and his theory. Have you forgotten all the passionate posts you made in his defense? If you have changed your mind, then let us know. Far as I know, you have no equal when it comes to extolling Severed.