Foremost Ijaw leader, Chief Edwin Clark, in this interview, speaks on the crisis in the Peoples Democratic Party, developments in the Niger Delta region, the restructuring crusade and how Henry Okah’s brothers were allegedly controlling activities of the Movement for the Emancipation of Niger Delta from prison
You have come under attacks for not speaking up against corruption during the administration of former President Goodluck Jonathan but you are now supporting the anti-corruption fight of President Buhari. What is your reaction to that accusation?
Ordinarily, I shouldn’t have replied to it or talk to you about it because whoever is making allegation is either vicious or mischievous. He is not a patriotic Nigerian. I have been speaking against corruption before the administration of Jonathan.
In the first place, I talked about corruption during the Obasanjo’s period and I spoke against corruption during the government of the late Yar’Adua. I remember at that time, I was in the forefront of fighting our governor, Chief Onanefe Ibori. Everybody knew about that! I fought against Ibori and this even led to his been sentenced to prison in the United Kingdom after he was freed by a Nigerian Judge. I led the crusade against him particularly when he bought shares worth N200bn on behalf of the Delta State Government and they used the shares as collateral when he wanted to buy an aircraft from Canada. I criticised him and the matter was investigated. That was one of the accusations against him when the EFCC invited him but he refused to answer. It was the police that helped him to escape from Nigeria to Dubai where he was arrested by the British Police.
During Jonathan’s period, I wrote an open letter to the Chief Justice of Nigeria on corrupt governors. Some of them were charged to court where their cases are still pending. Some of them had even become Senators. I mentioned all of them in the open letter to the Chief Justice of Nigeria and he replied me at that time. He said in his reply that the prosecutors did not prepare their cases properly. How can you talk about one hundred charges and how do you connect them? Some of these cases were pending because of the poor investigations on the part of the prosecuting counsel. I still have a copy of the letter.
But are you satisfied with the President Muhammadu Buhari’s anti-corruption war?
That is what I am replying to now because I said Buhari’s crusade against corruption is in the best interest of Nigeria. No matter the fault we found against him. Some people said he was discriminatory. When Buhari was campaigning, he promised to fight corruption and he drew a line saying those who were corrupt before he came on board, he would not prosecute them, he will only prosecute those who were corrupt when he took over office. I said then that it was not proper to differentiate between one set of corrupt officers and another set of corrupt officers. Is it because they were in the same party? I spoke against Buhari and when he decided to wage war against corruption, I saw to it that he was sincere. Whatever shortcomings, I believe he is doing a good job in cleaning the society. People are now more careful than they were before even though they were not accused of corruption. People are becoming more prudent, and they are afraid of perpetrating corruption.
Also during Jonathan’s time, I accused Obasanjo of being the most corrupt President Nigeria had ever produced. I said he (Obasanjo) left the prison with only N20,000 but that today he is one of the wealthiest former presidents in the whole of Africa. This is all I said during Jonathan’s period. I condemned Obasanjo for buying land when we were together as ministers under General Gowon. I said Obasanjo acquired part of government land to build an estate in Apapa and he went to court with the man who acted as front for him. The case is still pending in court. I don’t have the update of that case now. So those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. That was what I said in my1 open letter to Obasanjo and so I have been criticising past governments.
It is not true that during Jonathan’s period I didn’t talk about corruption. I told Jonathan personally. Even during the last period, I complained bitterly to Jonathan how a former national chairman of PDP, Alhaji Adamu Muazu, collected N750m from Hon. Ndidi Elumelu who was a member in the House of Representatives but who wanted to become the Governor of Delta State. I told Jonathan. About it and other corrupt cases.
Did you share all these with Jonathan during your private meetings with him?
I went to meet him in his own office, I went to him and told him about the corrupt officers in his party, the corrupt members of his government and I spoke to him even when I accused the then Attorney General, Adoke, of corruption. These were all during the era of Jonathan.
Why are the Ijaw elders led by your humble self calling on the FG for the withdrawal of military personnel from the Niger Delta region in the face of the renewed militancy?
Soldiers had always been here mounting road blocks. We are not talking about that. We are talking about the soldiers as it was in the 2009 when Gbaramatu was attacked and soldiers were everywhere under the pretense that they were looking for Tompolo. Homes, schools and properties that were destroyed had not been rebuilt till now. Towns like Okerenkoko that was attacked had not been rebuilt. There are fewer houses in Okerenkoko today.
They (soldiers) were going about arresting school children and other young people in the name of looking for members of the Niger Delta Avengers. This won’t work. We are not saying they shouldn’t investigate. We are saying that if we want to negotiate or embrace dialogue and you want to arrest the people who will engage in the dialogue, they will not come. They should not allow tension to be created. Remember a few days ago, Gbaramatu women came to demonstrate. So there should be some sort of truth if we are going to have any meaningful discussion. We are not saying that soldiers should be withdrawn from all parts of the Niger Delta.
Is there any justification for the current fight by the NDA considering the fact that President Buhari assumed office just over a year ago?
I have already spoken on that. I addressed an open letter to Mr. President and I explained that what the boys were doing was wrong. I condemned their actions, a long time ago. I wrote an open letter calling on these youths to lay down their arms. Crisis will not solve crisis, we should resort to dialogue. Whatever complaint we have did not begin today. We have been suffering over the years. We have been neglected over the years due to the oil exploration and exploitation. Our ecosystem had been badly affected, we have no more fishes, we have no more forests but these are not things that we can talk about overnight. Carrying arms to fight is not the answer. We must present our case to the government to consider.
So, I do not believe that destroying the pipeline in order to strangulate the economy of the country is acceptable to me. It is not a matter of justification. If you say somebody had done something wrong and you carry arms, that means there will be problem all over the country. I do not support the idea of carrying arms to fight the government. The Amnesty Programme, which was declared in 2009, entails demobilisation and mobilising of the youths for training and rehabilitation. That aspect had been done when they were in camp in Cross River. Those who were demobilised and rehabilitated, some of those boys had gone abroad. I am happy to hear that some of them returned with first class degrees and some made second class upper. No human being is useless!
I do not want to see that people are just being condemned and people are just being regarded as criminals. But I won’t support the idea of taking up arms against the government because what is going on did not start today or with President Buhari. In 1998, some young men came up with the ‘Kaiama Declaration’ claiming that since we had been neglected for so long, all oil companies should go. They gave them up till December 31 of that year as the deadline but some of us intervened. Despite that, the government killed many of the boys.
So we started discussing with the government since 1999 before Obasanjo took over. There was the General Popoola Committee set up by then Head of State, General Abdulsalami Abubakar, to look into the matter. General Popoola went round and reported among other things that the area was neglected. For instance, there was no public electricity in the whole of Bayelsa State. It was recommended that about N300m be spent for a step-down electricity from Owerri to Bayelsa State and that a university should be established in the area.
We were surprised therefore when the Maritime University was established in Okerenkoko, which produces a lot of oil and gas and a minister gave a counter order that the university should be cancelled.
I think these are some of the things that annoyed our people. The issue of scholarships had been taken care of by the Amnesty Office but the amnesty programme also included infrastructural development of the region. Hence Barrister Ledum Mitee from Ogoni was appointed Chairman of a 45-member committee which made very strong recommendations concerning the infrastructural development of the region. These have not been touched at all. I was very happy when President Buhari said that he would look into the Amnesty Programme and see what it contains. We cannot achieve development if there is no peace.
(Cut-in) what phase are we now in the programme?
Presently, the phase we are now is that of the development of the region. These included the construction of a railway from Calabar to Lagos, the East-West Road and many other things. You need to go inside the area to see for yourself what the people are going through. No development, no water to drink yet we are surrounded by water and our people are no longer fishermen. The Ijaw man doesn’t eat iced-fish in the past, but that is what we are eating today. There is no proper education in the area and no health facilities. For instance, 18 communities close to the Atlantic Ocean both in Delta and Bayelsa States threatened to stop the flow of oil because there was no evidence of government presence in these villages.
Talking about the proposed dialogue, how do you want the FG to go about it with the militants?
We’ve done it before. This is not the first time we will be doing it. In 2009, government had its own team and we had the elders. I sent people to various camps to meet with the boys. The team was made up former Army Generals, politicians and others. General Ikpowhe from Edo State and B.Y Biakpara were members of the team. They went everywhere and it was after it, that the two sides met to talk about amnesty and surrendering of ammunition. The government should take note of what happened before. You cannot be fighting children and finding a way to negotiate with those children where their parents who are also affected are there and they are not being contacted or spoken to. That was why we summoned the last meeting of Ijaw elders.
We cannot sit down and allow crisis to take place in our own area and pretend as if we don’t know anything about it. That was why we called that meeting and we have decided to reach out to these boys and to let them stop doing what they are doing. The minister of sports, Solomon Dalung, said he went to Oporoza and according to him, he was duped, who sent him there? Who did he meet? Some of us are around. Did he even see the Governor of Bayelsa State or Delta State before going to Oporoza? Who was he trying to meet? Now, today, because everybody wants to negotiate with the government, they are forming groups, how will you negotiate with 20 groups?
Considering the fact that the Movement for the Emancipation of Niger Delta is opposed to the activities of the Niger Delta Avengers, will this rift not affect any possible dialogue with government?
The first thing to ask is, what is MEND? That is what the government should do. MEND was an organisation founded by the earlier militant leaders when the amnesty was granted. MEND died! They abandoned MEND. Then, Asari Dokubo, Tompolo, Ateke Tom, and Boyloaf, among others left MEND. It was only Henry Okah for reasons best known to him, that refused to key in to the Amnesty. Himself, and his brothers who were charged for bombing the Eagles Square, were the only one running MEND. The brother is running it from the prison in Abuja. His nickname is Jomo Gbomo. Let anybody come out to say it belongs to MEND, we will challenge him. So MEND is being used to disorganise our people, there is no MEND anywhere. We the leaders have spoken, let MEND’s members come talk to us.
We are looking for the Niger Delta Avengers. These are the people who are doing this (destruction of oil pipelines and installation). Some sets said they are Adaka-Boro Avengers, another said Egbesu. So the government should try to contact the leaders who will be able to connect these various groups by knowing those who are in existence or using names, that is all.
It’s being alleged that Ijaw militants are behind the attacks on the South-West coastal communities, what is your opinion?
Some Nigerians are being vicious by blackmailing a whole tribe. Everybody cannot be regarded as criminals in a whole tribe. There are criminals in every tribe in this country. We have reviewed what is happening in Ogun and Lagos States. The Yoruba Leaders (Afenifere) and myself as the leader of Ijaw people, agreed to meet over this issue. So a meeting was called in Eko Hotel in Lagos not too long ago. The Ijaw leaders were led by AK Horsefall who represented me at the meeting while the Yoruba leaders in Afenifere were headed by Ayo Adebanjo and many other elders. We agreed to issue a communiqué saying that the security agencies should look into this matter, look for the people because they were criminals and not only Ijaw people. These are illegal oil bunkerers. There are Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa and other tribes among them, not only Ijaw people. Niger Delta Avengers will not leave Ijawland and go there to fight in Lagos. We had visited the Oba of Sagamu over the issue.
It is not true that the perpetrators of crimes in the south-West coastal communities are Ijaw militants. Criminals are criminals! It is wrong and unfair to term them as Ijaw. We are not saying that there are no Ijaws among them but Ijaws are not there alone and we said whoever is there is a criminal and they should be dealt with. When we heard about what happened to them the other day, nobody supported them, there must be peace in the area and whatever action that was taken to bring peace to the area was accepted by us, it is not an Ijaw affair.
What can the FG do to immediately halt hostilities in the region?
Well, I will say the first thing to do is to show sincerity and honesty. The Maritime University in Okerenkoko should be allowed to start because the Federal Executive Council had approved it and the officials to run the institution had been appointed by the Federal Government. A governing council under the chairmanship of former Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, a Vice-Chancellor had been appointed and some of them are from the far North.
That is to show goodwill and sincerity that the university should be allowed to take-off. It is the money that was voted for the take-off that was seized by the Ministry of Education. It is not proper to say that out of the 13 federal universities approved by the Jonathan government, which are now in operations, it is only the one in Okerenkoko that is prevented from taking-off. You can’t compare it to that of Oron and Kaduna. We are not building a university, the university had been built. The N13bn was used to pay for the buildings in the temporary site which was shown on the television the other day.
The East West Road should be completed and, I am happy that the Federal Government is ready to build the rail line from Calabar to Lagos that will pass through our communities. That is how to start developing the area. We want the people in the rural areas to see their areas being developed, good schools should be built, modern towns should be built, there should be water for them to drink and there should be electricity. Those are the benefits of having oil in their communities. They should be involved in the oil exploration and management.
The Petroleum Industry Bill should be passed so that the 10 per cent recommended for the host communities will be paid and the people will look at those oil installations in their area as their property. Surveillance of oil pipeline should be given to the communities and they should be held responsible for any destruction of pipelines but to give them (oil installations) to people from outside who don’t know anything from this area is not fair.
Apart from that government should now look into the infrastructural development of the area.
You are also one of the proponents of restructuring of the country, why should Nigeria be restructured now?
Nigeria was a Federation under the Sultan of Sokoto, Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe and Chief Obafemi Awolowo. They were in their thirties and forties. They saw the vision and they decided to have true federalism in the fifties and three regions were created. North, West and East and they agreed that everybody in the federation was equal. They agreed that each region should develop at its own pace that is why in the Western Nigeria, Awolowo was able to introduce free primary education in 1955/6 with the proceeds from cocoa while the Eastern and Northern regions could not do it.
That was why Awolowo brought Television to the Western Nigeria. He built Cocoa House and the University of Ife. Similarly, In the North, groundnut gave Sultan of Sokoto enough funds to develop the northern region-Kaduna Capital Territory, Kano Textile Estate and Ahmadu Bello University.
But Nnamdi Azikiwe could not carry out these developments because there was no revenue. Revenue from palm produce was very small.
When Aguiyi Ironsi came in, he unified the whole country through Decree No. 34 and when Gowon took over, he did not change it. It was because of our agitations for the restructuring of this country that made Jonathan to set up a National Conference of which 492 different persons in Nigeria deliberated and passed at least 600 recommendations. We even suggested the type of constitution Nigeria should have and those reports were submitted to President Buhari’s government.
Buhari is not a military president, he was elected by the people of Nigeria and if majority of the people in this country believe in the restructuring of the country, he has no choice. I am happy that the National Assembly particularly the House of Representatives have agreed to consider the report which will solve a lot of economic and political problems and that is why I am demanding for the restructuring of the country.
What are your suggestions to resolve the crisis in the Peoples Democratic Party?
As an elder statesman who had been a PDP member, I believe what is going on was all part of democracy and I believe very soon a stronger PDP will emerge. There must be factions and I believe the two sides -Sheriff and Markafi should come together. I’m appealing to the two factions to come together and resolve whatever might be their differences in the interest of the party.
I tried to step in but Sheriff was not cooperating, otherwise I was ready to bring the two of them together. Markafi was ready at all times for a peaceful resolution of the crisis. I am only surprised at some of the court pronouncements. I am ashamed. There was no court judgement in Lagos which prevents the party for holding a convention in Port-Harcourt and I was therefore surprised when I heard the Judge in Abuja stating that he had regard for the judgement in Lagos. What I am saying is that both sides should come together. Sheriff should come in and support the party, he should be part of the convention and he should have his own men nominated into strategic positions.
The Presidency had been zoned to the North, the Chairmanship to the South. I don’t know what Sheriff is fighting for again except he is saying both the Presidency and the Chairmanship should come from the North, then he can carry on and people may support him and now that the party had zoned and I believe Sheriff should know that the North cannot have the Presidency and the Chairmanship together. Now that the Chairmanship had been zoned to the South, Sheriff should honourably back out, cooperate with those who are there because he is fighting for nothing. However, I have appealed to Markafi to give him a soft landing. Let him and his men be part or members of the Board of Trustees and the matter will be resolved. As far as I am concerned, PDP is not in any deep crisis, it is the process of democracy, it will solve its problems and remain as a strong party because government needs a strong opposition.
PUNCH