In this surprisingly engaging interview we introduce ATLvr and their upcoming Virtual Runway. Peter Stolmeier, Annie Eaton, and Jacob Lance walk Maximüs Groves and guest host Matthew Queen through all the recent developments in virtual reality, talk about their virtual reality fashion show, and answer tough questions on the future of humanity as VR reaches maturity. These guys are true believers and they share with us some of their personal fantasies for the platform as we ponder the cultural impact.
During the second half of the interview, Max and Matt try to stretch their creativity and all we hear in response is either, “We can’t talk about it,” or, “It’s HAPPENING!” – cue lasers and Ron Paul hand motions….
We get the full details on what’s coming, plan for a future virtual reality podcast, and reflect on other issues like women in technology, awesome last words, and the whereabouts of Julian Assange. Also, there’s an argument about a Tijuana pony show.
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Good evening Internet people come Castro revolution letters max gross out memory forgot to record this one so this is me willing at the last minute. Anyway this is our interview with A.T.L. G are an amazing group of people we had any Peter and shake hands and want to share their zeal for the evolution of just entertainment platforms and to promote their upcoming release on March twenty first at fashion court they are comparing her to room runway incredibly novel implementation of this wild technology where essentially you get to attend a fashion show but exclusively through a virtual reality aspect and of course this conversation basically touches everything you could imagine going into point one of the weirdness of that combination between the technology technological in the fashion world and to what the hell happens to society a whole lot of this is what this is one of the respondents are going to absolutely adore this if it gets to close off go well just I mean anywhere else and without further ado A T L. And as we go forward as we go into the future it’s a guarantee that you will actually see them because we’re able to do Motion Tracking we’re able to do three D. scanning. It’s not there yet but by Wade Watts future from ready player one twenty forty four you will totally see them for real photo realistic. So like you and I like if we were looking into other you’d be an Avatar like a dinosaur or an angel everyone you’d have to be because your eyes will be covered. So we have to render the eyes but we’re already doing eye tracking and we can accurately render that So I mean like really what you’re opening up the door to is like a state of augmented reality where you know you could have like a lens that you know shows the real world but then you have like you know the weather over here I like a nice historical fact about you know this place that’s beyond what’s capable right now but yet within our life. Probably that’s the goal. Damn but it you know that comes up a lot online. People talk about virtual reality and how it’s going to isolate you which is totally false. I’m a little you mentioned thirty I’m thirty eight and I look at people on their phones if you will look at them. Isolating themselves they’re talking to people they’re talking to friends of theirs. So you’ll be online talking to friends of yours people you actually like as opposed to whoever happens to be near you. We need to find out what fountain of youth that all of our guests are coming from because you are the third is mentioned as a general and I’ve been off by a decade and I just want to there’s this guy I was like twenty seven years old who seriously look like he was twenty and I wrote him the answer might of empty empty honestly drugs. Hell of a drug. Hello Internet. We’re talking with the A.T.L. V.R. company who are promoting their new coming release for the virtual reality runway gap virtual runway virtual runway sensors for selves. Sure I’m an E I N H L V E R T E O and one of the co-founders our company basically is one of them in a few virtual reality companies but we do interactive program design consulting and we also do demos and presentations. If anyone wants I mean I guess technically we could do a children’s birthday party but we try not to. I’ve said it’s a good idea. Yeah he’s like no. Good to have you guys have history as professional clowns doing that gets worse but I’ve got a slogan actually a catchphrase of mine is no clowns. Oh OK so I look at hash tag no conscious just me all day you know I do have history and entertaining children at parties. OK so we can easily do it that’s all I’m saying we could do it with like no overhead it’s just extremely fragile equipment that they will and not their own stuff and it’s already it’s already so you had childproof via our so I am confident in what they see in these virtual. What is hardcore pornography you have your way there I should have but we’re working our Iran Lee and I would have to take it out of my main P.C. but I know if I was doing for a kid’s party I would find the better games things that were appropriate for children like yours one cool morning if you’re driving around on a Mac. there’s a couple cool flight sims. There’s some educational stuff that is just hits which I would show the kids if I went to parties and described it as a kid. Yes I feel like a flight simulator is going to like freakishly Oh you know I mean I mean that’s like super educational because like those things can get like one for one like just as you would be like if you really are in a cockpit. Well my name’s Peter and I made a tactical officer at the tail of the order and yeah I talk about this nonstop. That’s how I met any. We used to work together and then I would not stop talking about the our so she’s like hey let’s work together on that that is one hundred percent but I’ll come back to that a second but I want to project at the end of interaction. I’m Jake I’m the creative director of H.L.V. art and I’ve always been a tech and I’m really into like gaming history and any sort of alternate interactive experiences or anything like that just try to keep my eye on the future because you love like the peripheral explosion of the last five years which are plastic. Oh yeah I had the entire rock band. OK Oh yeah oh yeah. Even this is in the completely unnecessary symbols. Oh yeah yeah. For no reason whatsoever. Forty bucks what money is for you know I did get the keyboard for which like how to change the game entirely they are trying to teach you how to use it was going to go ahead Rocksmith that last about two weeks from like I got I was very upset about Guitar Hero because the first might exactly the Key Porter is my first idea I was like Guitar Hero will give birth to piano here we have it because like you could learn just by seeing that if you know he’s flying at you like oh shit that’s chops and after that you do and you know requiems And like after that like you could be genuine. We teach people without having to get sheet music in the way or you impose sheet music on there so people start to put it together over time and it always starts just before education. Yeah so tell me about this book. Ready player. Ready player one came out about two years ago and it’s going and it’s a totally awesome book. It has we are in it which is heavily about P.R. So if you want to love the arts a book to read but the reason I recommend it is because of this podcast every single person that hears this it is relevant to their interest. In order for the main character to achieve his goal in twenty forty four he has to know his eighty’s pop culture dead he has to have everything. Who directed what movies exactly what they said where they were standing when they said and he need to know everything about the eighty’s to win. The way you mention that it almost sounds like the structure of April’s presentation on her. I’d marry her ultimately are NOT area but it seems like the mechanism of virtual reality becomes this sort of thing where alternate reality gaming as an idea is kind of discernable from that actual game experience. Like the idea where like everything around you become just a game of hide elements just from you know if you can project upon it and a virtual kind of context you know will he has the ability to go into any movie or any video games ever existed and be inside that video game to do anything else. The difference between augmented and virtual reality is virtual is completely made up and there is no real life in it at all. But but still like for the alternate reality thing I think the premise was that it’s almost like the this is the structure of what we have is normal interaction become sort of this thing to investigate and sort of like to morph around like using all of the means that we have and all of history like go through it as yes like virtual reality almost seems like you have game a fight existence itself. Yes Totally everything is playtime. Yes that’s how it’ll be. While it’s not quite there yet but it’s getting close to. Because you’ve got to think in sort of terms of like a game designer you know you’re still making a video game you have to think like a holiday maker. I mean I mean I don’t feel like I’m catching up to you guys but I mean I’m just sitting there thinking like Ghostbusters Now you can walk through as Ray stands or you could play the part of Peter Venkman But if the AI were sophisticated and you could you know go off on like a side quest and I do all this other stuff within that universe are you a fan of the Ghostbusters video game actually than the new one or the shitty any as well the new one the new one is actually that’s about as close as it will ever get to Ghostbusters three. Yes it is. I am excited about this movie but I know exactly what you mean you’re right now. Take that game with all the voices already done remake it in v are have that is your Ghostbusters experience if that’s not good enough for you then you’re just going to have to live in the real world man that’s perfect. Well the protagonist and I was just like OK it was just like some silent protagonist me as opposed to I mean I could see that working really well with every Nintendo game because it’s already the silent protagonist you can just throw yourself in there and go you know like puzzles or the platforming or what I should have run my rig with me and boot up the Legend of Zelda for you what you can do if they have modern V.R. legends Although yeah except that it’s actually a bit Legend of Zelda. It’s really hard because you’re looking at it in first person but if they recreated all the eight bit sprites in three D. and in first person I think I was like yeah those it’s really hard. Future like you but I didn’t know if this was real yet. It’s no one else is going to know until two thousand and sixteen. But yeah it’s available right now. So I remember we had briefly mentioned I didn’t fuck up according the book Snow Crash as well. When I was a cool aspect of that there was very deep and so it was sort of like they had the sociological and social sort of maybe two values I can think of one the idea of value by how granular deep like the material appears you know like you know perfectly shimmering things but these are their own. It’s a things I actually have like a bit of disgust to it that actually expensive and take work to recreate that closeness of reality and that’s perhaps like most expressed through the crazy rocker hair of that guy which was like a custom program to work with. Mind you ever looked at it. It’ll be close to that but in his he was thinking in terms of a fax machine world he wrote that in the early ninety’s fax machine when you have to actually use faxes in that book they called it a fact when you got into a phone booth and it kind of half scanned you and you kind of look like like we’ll never have that because we can make the avatar look great it’s easier to scan you when you make it look realistic than it is not to OK Well that leads me to a question and that what would you guys avatars be and interaction of the sons. Well like like this kind of pod cast will happen and when that happens I will look pretty much like myself just really good looking. I would be mine that’s happening right now to actually have had that conversation is called Be our chat and you can make any avatar you want a lot of people crack into their favorite games get that Avatar and load it up. Yeah I think I want to be zero from megaman. That’s that’s that’s the only thing you can do right now. Pretty cool what are you going to oh man I’m trying to think all of my stuff Curly that I would I mean I’ve already got the fashion stuff going on you want to be a pony because that’s doable right now to think of a unicorn. OK Pat Metheny almightily been some sort of Mary Sue type character that represents every you know when you would somebody writing fan fiction I finally wrote this perfected view of themselves into the story of some sort of swashbuckling pirate with like an awesome i Pad but for some reason has a lightsaber. OK and can fly you just described. Luke Scott Walker’s wife from the expanded universe does she have a look at what she had a life of shit and I bet my marriage at Skywalker minus the i Pad So actually they rip on her because that’s like this girl lectures about a no or an expanding universe and all the sudden everyone likes her and she’s totally also Yeah. OK She had training and I’m going to stick with unicorns. Thank you Chad if you type slash ponies. Yeah oh my gosh you know I haven’t tried I want to change that if you want to play a game the next time you think of some random topic. Do a search for that with the word pony in it and you will find a pony fight version of whatever it is you’re talking about is this like a growth of the Brony movement are either OK are we sitting amongst any brownies here now. JOBRANI est and maybe you could call me a friend to them whatever they want to do but I’m not that guy. Perhaps I’m an ambassador. Yeah sure want to know a friend of mine she’s she. Fortunately she’s really into it and this is like two D. con’s ago. Like the night before hand like she was like I was a last minute in my problems with their cost him so she was like Have you heard of this thing called My Little Pony and at that point I had never really seen much of the brownie scene so she puts this thing on in like I just I was a shitty cartoon like like subsequent to that I find out like there’s this huge movement like you’re making a lot of enemies right now I should tell you my guy I’m going to get him e-mails right now and you haven’t even releases him. Bring all the haters when that’s called ratings Ron I think you know they will correct you on everything you’re saying right. Actually we’re probably going to Momo come on so I know a guy we probably shouldn’t say anything more bad about the brain that was such a surprise when you some pets are males or you know Mike I mean this isn’t anything that’s like weird it’s just that they like their ponies so much but there is no subject in which they were not bona fide I’ve tried have tried everything anything I could think of I find a pony five version of it it’s like the Rule thirty four it is but without without any like sexual connotations it’s like they have plenty of sexual content but if you want to look at if you like make a man pony you’ll find a Mega Man version of a pony if you look up neo from the Matrix you’ll find a Neo does Barack Obama and Sarah Palin will happen in a incense the word for that I would I would agree. No way I would choose passionate but they get over your runway in the virtual runway. So Peter and I got together made a last year and we decided we really thought of the phone to make a business out of our love of the are mainly the technical guy the business head honcho. No I’m just getting on the business lady. And oh yeah OK. Head Honcho and Jake does some creative and I actually have a background in fashion I used to be a fashion designer in a previous life more for a hobby than money but I was actually in this fashion show called Fashion uncorked in two thousand and twelve where I was one of the top ten finalists for a competition in Atlanta for I guess budding aspiring fashion designers. So I did pretty well I did not win unfortunately. I actually came back last year to do it again as a model. Now it’s fun and then I we kind of talked about applying virtual reality to other industries like like so many people are creating games and we want to physically focus on industries that may not be getting as much attention. So like fashion. Yeah. And so we are trying to come up with a way to make an interactive fashion experience kind of bring in a designer or bring in a cool environment so that’s how virtual runway began. So this program specifically is live models that we have actually shot in three D. against a green screen by a local fashion designer Leon Param and his I mean his clothes are very unique he does men’s wear and women’s wear which is something we’re looking for mainly because most of the I mean I hate it but most of the people interested in the archives and I’m like well if we can have male clothes in here maybe it’ll be Mark. You guys to go on a virtual runway. Yeah it is interesting I think almost most time and games are probably spent on this paper ball screens accessorizing for your loadout. Right here I mean I mean you gotta have a proper collection of hats if you want to get into a Team Fortress two game I mean actually men get a bad rap for the fashion industry but I think that’s one hundred percent marketing I mean you can put a lot of thought into what you wear you have you have different shoes. It’s not it’s not necessarily an American thing to go out and talk about fashion but that’s just an American thing there’s nothing ingrained into masculinity that like a Chinese bashing and if you make it fun if you game a client. Yeah I mean I can absolutely see that taken off I think it’s fair to say that a lot of people that are into right now are the T. shirt and jeans and I like video games as well. Yeah right now in just the point in a way my statesman shirt from city here I’m representing. So those guys you know we’re like we should fill in some things that they might like as well I mean they’re going to like the ladies but we did want to mix it up for them because that’s the demographic right now it hasn’t hit mainstream. So what’s so what’s next Abby is going to have like a fashion show. Yeah so basically we we film the footage. There are all real people in real close. I mean I know everyone says you know you can make digital look as good as real but this is a fashion designers work and coming from that background like I understand how important it is to especially the smaller fashion designers who are so attached and so like passionate about their clothes. It’s not going to be as real if you digitally recreate it and because this is actually an experience where you’re the person sitting at the end of the runway experiencing the fashion show. It doesn’t. They can be that way. So we filmed probably about twenty different luck because I have to edit them all together that’s that’s two H.D. footage is for each person that was six takes for each person Times twenty three people. So basically recruiting like several like seats of subjective view. All right now this is just the end of the right before you get the yes. Now so they can come out and they walk right towards you. Now what you’re what you’re thinking is if you film it in three D. You only get that view if you film in three D. right that’s what I was thinking but you’re not going to get up like for example if this was filmed where I’m sitting I’m not going anywhere. So the one view from where I am is perfectly acceptable. So that’s what I was I thought except I was just imagining you were like how you’re trying to interact with like a fashion show and they you’re sitting in a virtual fashion show which looks like a game because it’s you know it’s game level graphics and then a real person walked on the runway and comes with and I don’t know I want to say three feet four feet of you. And they look totally real and they spin around like they would in a real fashion show turned around walked back down the aisle again and you get to choose if you want to see only men’s fashion only women’s fashion if you want to see a mix of both and then they come out for you know the short thing we’ve got a lot of people got to get through so many. Yeah. We control everything all at once. Would you be able to scan my body and then allow me to see you know what I would buy clothes. Lightweight So I’m imagining the application where I meant no I’m in a department store and I sit there and say you know scan this this shirt jeans and then you know digitally render me going down the runway. Yes and no. There’s a bunch of different ways you can do that some of those don’t even require a V.A.R. to do it. First time I ever saw that was a Max Headroom by the way a show from the eighty’s. The guy with the glasses and the plastic. Anyway he did that so one of the best ways you would do that is to have a monitor right there in that department store and then he would scan you and then you would choose the clothes if I was going to do it in the arse you could see yourself or three sixty. Yes you can do that but it’s still going to a little sketchier is going the artifacts in the scanning and changing the clothes is going to kind of hard so I would probably make a digital avatar that could change clothes and then put your head on it like going to war and it’s very very close to being able. Do that the three D. scanning faces and then animating them is hard. Scanning UN So you’re really freaking there. But your statue is way doable right now but making you be something you want to see the law a bit more difficult. Live Illinois. That’s one of the very few games that grabbed me by the color because I just happen to be living on the West Coast and I got to like I’ll walk down Hollywood Boulevard and I just look it up on this and it was a silly looking on NG It doesn’t matter where it was the point is that it looked very odd. Initials non-descript on some random corner and I went in real life and looked there and it was frickin they’re like me they have taken that degree of granularity inly like the actual story itself the game was fine but like I just couldn’t get over like the amount of effort they did to recreate one thousand twenties or thirties plus Angelus was cool this is really a point the idea of trying to take take like a designer and tell him this is how you can showcase yourself. Just you know almost like the sort of new way to cure a you know their finest works while also responding directly to people’s personal desires not sounds. Yeah so that was one of our goals was the personalization of it. So before you even are sitting in a runway ready for the show. The interactive aspect of it is that you get to actually pick which look do you want to see so I mean we do have a large library of look but you get to pick your top choices before you even fit in right now in like Peter said You can take all men or all women by you or you can take both but you just get to pick which one you want to see is this kind of like the approach you’re taking for new clients with the finding essentially expressive people a bit like directors or designers or whatnot and say Let us put your work like center stage for this kind of thing. It depends on the person we were talking earlier about Rock Band and how there’s this game called rock band I’m like OK I’m going to put it into a panel icon and I’m going to flip it so that they’re on a stage. Out at the audience and they get little monitors so they’re actually singing for the audience and I built the machines that you could switch from two different X. boxes so that one person to choose the songs while the other person singing no delay so that was the problem in the solution was that so as each person talks to us the solutions can be slightly different because that’s that’s how I do it. People bring up problems and I think about how I saw them and in like the next client which we can’t talk about we probably wouldn’t do it with filming and we’d probably do it all three D. but this filming things working out really well we’re putting a real person in a virtual set so we might it might be like whatever you’re trying to get across we’re going to we’re going to Israel’s possible. So are you going to like look around and I like your perspective changes Here’s a more just kind of like this. Yeah the only thing that doesn’t change is the model themselves but if you think about it if you’re looking at a runway and they’re directly in front of you and you turn your head you look behind you and you see some seats you’re you know look at that person. So you’ve got a very big capture like entire experience although the space is Virtual the person is real so one one of the things you can’t do is to say stop walking. I want to look at the back of you right now that you can’t do you have to wait till they get to the end of the runway and turn around. But we’re going to see all of them the rest of the room however is fully three sixty fully rendered fully virtual and you can get out of your chair and you can walk around. I won’t let them but you can take enough functionality out. OK so what I’m thinking of virtual reality. I mean. I guess some of the low hanging fruit would be like here live the rock band experience you could sit there and load up you know you know you could sit there be Steven Tyler you know you walk in front of millions of people. What what’s the application for this. Like well who would be the end user for the R.M. way. As an advertisement for those clothes as well. Yeah so I mean argh. Our goal for this. Well actually we were developing this to be launched at that fashion show Fashion uncorked specifically that the benefit fundraiser and we’re helping them have kind of more of like a marketing tool to sell more ticket so that’s why we’re doing that. The physically for that kind of stage one is like this but if it was people said oh yeah I like the gap. Yeah so basically our goal is also to you know help promote their cause there. With Easter Seals of north Georgia. So they help children and families with children with disabilities or challenges who need extra help or extra services to get the family what they need and so it’s a great cause which is why we wanted to be involved but also we’re going to be in front of the many great people to where we can the other three tailors which will be like maybe you go in their store and it’s a great marketing tool for them to allow their customers to experience a fashion show and yeah they couldn’t spend thousands of dollars to make it to New York Fashion Week I feel like in my head if you like you have to expand like a C.M.S. system now too because everyone’s inventory. Yeah I don’t know. They’re already working on this. That’s the theme to take away this is already happening and you don’t know John Carmack the guy that you do have to do it. John Carmack is working on in his spare time on a virtual comic shop where he can walk to a comic shop pick up any comic in all the pages are in there who knows if illiterate is actually a really interesting thing blasphemy it’s taking away I remember reading your huge collection of every Marvel comic ever made. I remember reading an article where the man was trying to bring his daughter to a comic book shop but he was never conscious that the majority of it was pornographic. Oh my gosh I’ve never noticed a comic shop. That’s the point in that like the ground issues like where are the girls comics are where the kid comics and no one’s really came out in a comic shop the other day and I was just looking at the Ms Marvel on the wall in the GO and Stacy comic I don’t know I’d have to debate the person and it was he was having he was having a very difficult time just finding an entranceway into it that was not let’s just say like fixated on you know like the buyer’s market right now. I mean like in here in years I think he’s right and actually can build what Peter’s saying he’s also a little bit. You just have to know where to look I mean Wonder Woman had they toned down the sexual what it was what it was like seems to be my solution for that sort of subjectivity of the store that you can program it to have whatever book she wanted. Yeah yeah yeah we’re looking for comics for thirteen year old girl load the store but check this out. Here’s what’s happening with like Pacific Rim. They did it I mean I was the whole time in the making a sequel Yeah that’s going to make me a Tron style robots isn’t going to do a Power Rangers crossover because that’s what we need. No we want it we had to pay I always say Pacific Rim might as well just be Power Rangers and then I will kill you I’m going to hang with and then I start like adding like it weighs it maybe makes it make sense that he criticizes me for not sticking to Canada powering OK that is not at all what happened I said it would be funny if at the end of Pacific Rim The mega Zorg shows up and it turns out it was all actually a prequel for a new Powerade as you know that’s pretty reboot apparently that was a gimme the idea that that game the interview Vanderbeek that know much I absolutely know enter places like the Red Ranger now oh yeah I know he was rocky rocky writer injury and Mike was like the pink one. Starbuck. Maybe Katie Seka Yeah yeah I’m with that. Then I’ll show it to you but to the ground I will absolutely love that movie but it was the event Alien movie they were working on that at some point and then they stopped and this is the result. Yeah there’s a little too much Biblical shame you know his his his helmet filled up with L.C.L. beginning of the movie for no reason I mean nice Shinji she’s Raya told nothing made sense of Pacific Rim What did that one thing I don’t like and they fell out a little drifting they have three drift compatible you’re explaining it right now are like I don’t understand how exactly what I’m saying is happening. It’s like a little plot to the reason we brought up that movie is because at Comic Con they did have your experience where you got in and you actually fought a Jew It came right at you and stuff like that. Now it’s not quite there. But imagine if they did that at movie theaters the same way they do Transformers they actually take the robe. What’s the different movie theaters. They’ll do the same thing with the AR and that’s the kind of thing fashion around we would be we would take it to different events and let people come in I think in NASCAR actually driving a real NASCAR down the track just outside the the track or same thing with the N.B.A. like that that would be difficult so I mean just like looking at what Gran Turismo five requires of the player and then if you were to like you know upgrade that so to speak come on we make it like Mario Kart but it looks like your interest Mo beautiful Mario Karts also N.P.R. What Nintendo is Nintendo like knowing all the no no no this is this is no actually this is the only one not in the game because I still burn from Virtual Boy probably I’m going to use a power glove and V. are for real I needed a glove so I made a glove out of a power glove it’s totally what we have in mind my parents as we have an existing power glove and I remember I remember like at the time at my brother’s about your age and so I got I got all that cool stuff and or he was playing Mike Tyson’s Punchout with the power glove and he made it like like like a significant you know to like like the vodka drunken ski or like it was like on in there and I realized he was in like this like euphoric zone like he’d never like played any video game that well but he was not the frickin power glove which is likely going to have more stations four forward was a and that game so actually I did the same thing Power Glove actually did work with Mike Tyson punch up. But I built a keyboard onto it cause there’s no gauntlet for a keyboard kid you don’t know like last year I mean you know I don’t have a I don’t have any vision to look at the scene in my head I need to reach the keyboard for certain command so I just reach over my left arm and I pushed the appropriate ones who are like the most engineering engineer if it can be made better. It must be made better. Did you go back I want to full sail there is no love for full sail in the value of your time and those recruiters should just like grab you yours. No they’ve ruined your health and that’s why you didn’t go I grew up in a small and. I was not I’m not. None Lennon and I grew up in a swamp so that’s really what it seems to be like a really consistent theme a sort of like Taylor making your experience to your subjective desires me and I have a question like as a creative director like how does this clash with the idea of an auto or in that we are trying to present basically our vision in a platform that’s designed all around your preference scrum. That’s that’s my idea. Well you know so you’re asking like the person that is creating the experience how does that conflict with somebody that’s expecting their own experience with the headset. Yeah I mean it’s a great question because when you’re creating an experience or First off you know it is the unit itself is just a peripheral some way to experience something and. A lot of times you know you have to base the like whatever expression on it was a virtual run like for instance you know you kind of have to show it to me or to say here’s what you’re going to experience here’s what you’re going to do and it’s just like any other game you have to have you know here’s the vision here’s what it’s going to look like and in a soundbite like here’s how you’re going to experience it. So this is what you’re going to see. But in regard to something like OK we’re going to custom make this some good experiences in my own way. I feel like there’s a different there’s a different route for that because any sort of virtue that a unit you can’t say you can’t drop them in the middle of any world or any program software experience whatever with a headset on and say this is going to solve all your problems you’re going to be able to do whatever you want in this. It doesn’t solve all the problems regarding interactive experiences or how you’re going to see it or whatever it just says it’s it’s another way to experience what the person wants you to experience or you know it sounds like you’re describing Total Recall you know the guy says I Do you want to do this by admission or do you want to go be a house all right and the like. Always it’s like that but you know something something is kind of like you know gaining now you have OK that you’re restricted to the sprite you’re going to you’re going to run and jump in guy and this is all you can do and then you’re going to have games like sky around where you can say oh you’re going to be able to pickpocket you’re going be able to do this or be a physics based engine for something that any sort of virtually Oculus Rift or anything like that you’re kind of restricted like based on what you want what they want you to experience and some things are going to be oh this is going to be an empty room there are going to be Easter eggs you can wander around we want this to be some sort of something that you’re going to become a part of if you’re not you’re going to forget you’re in a virtual world itself or it’s going to be OK while you’re flying through space or you’re ducking to dodge a boxer coming actually through space or flying into the sun you have to avoid it. Certain things are going to be like that pre-built experience is kind of like a Nintendo wee problem like you have sort of almost infinite import but we have to consolidate it to like the most quickly understood one it’s like a holiday. I can give a really good example of jhana that is being created right now. One of my favorite games you just played a technologist. Yeah OK Now tell me a lot. Yes it is a cyberpunk future dystopia. It’s amazing but there’s a room very much like the one we’re in now that’s where you start normally in a video game he would go OK I’ve got my three things I need from this room you go down the hall they’d be an explosion in five hundred inches right. I guarantee you if I had it right now and you played it you would spend two hours in that room because you would go and you would check every drawer and then you would all look toward the faucet where if you turn it on and off it’s like that because with the AR It’s all about the experience you’re going to be spending so much time crafting like three rooms and the player is going to be happy about it but I think you that’s all it’s all there was to do. Now in real life in my actually walking around my house to pens yesterday I would have said no you’re going to use an omni directional treadmill which I’ll come back to in a second because that exists as well I can’t wait to get it. Do you now I’m going to get it but yesterday valve just announced a new system that allows you to walk into a room that’s fifteen feet across valve there in this whole mess. I’m not surprised they just released some playground of development right just really sourced to and they just released portal three is going to be in the are all and all the free mail like I mean it’s just it’s for influence he’s leading source Yeah. Unreal unity and source are all free for anyone to develop on China way total aside and House of Cards. President Underwood is a huge gamer and I had this one throwaway line in when one of the episodes where they were they were like oh that video game and he’s like it’s not to be a game it’s a no no they were there like I was on the X. Box is like no it’s not a console game and they let me throw it out as the president of states likes it now like looking down on its own P.C. He said you know how those who watch us or yeah we have a club. I missed it I was. He’s on the podcast instead of watching. Actually if you guys can keep a secret I have raced ahead and watched almost all the house of cards so I’m watching off for the second time but don’t tell anyone there I do that too if I waited for my wife to watch shows it never happened so I watch them whenever I can she watches them whenever she can and that’s that’s all there is to it I would imagine that you guys would bond over this show experience you know that we do when we’re when retrieve it you know there’s there’s always something going on right now she’s at home I’m doing this podcast so she better catch up on those last couple of episodes. Cora Oh you know the car actually I’ve heard that’s where that Airbender. Yeah that’s what everyone says is really good. We lost track of it for a while because it wasn’t good in the middle but we’re starting to watch the final season now so here’s a question who is you guys rivals what comes of the R. is a still everyone’s like a team together is Kenya. Yeah everyone on the team like everyone from what I’ve experienced wants to support each other because the bigger it build. At first but now your business are you guys I mean it sounds I can’t even tell what you guys do or use software or hardware you don’t. Well it is so new that we have to do all of it. What our primary job is going to be consulting. This is going to be huge like the i Phone is huge. Imagine in two thousand and seven people like we need an app who knows apps we know apps. Some people want to pay the money to hear what it is they need and then do it in-house. Some people are going to be like can you create a force yes we can. So we do develop software but right now we have a knowledge that hardly anybody has. That’s that’s why we’re talking first and second I think. Yeah you know I mean it’s amazing I mean like again speaking as someone who does not work in a land attack you know as you describe these things the applications for it are I mean just as far as you can think I mean I think I feel like gaming and military applications are just low hanging fruit you know you can really start to explore you know like showing people like different ways of experiencing the universe what not a lot of talk about that I mean that I think of like what is it to be a mountain like this is really as it sounds you can play with time and show that you know is an experience that you do know that there is a game about that you now are you accidentally referencing us about being a mum. Yes So the guy there was a guy who designed a game in the movie Her. Yeah yeah and like he didn’t release recently which is just contemplate the state of being a man I’m like seriously the D.R.S. I will admit I rip up X K C D E on here I did not. Well because I actually read a book recently called light of a hand is the idea of a mountain is like the Peruvian shamans concept of God permanence you know like be like the mountain is like so he didn’t even moms are permanent on that kind of time scale. One one of the things I going back and you know speaking of mountains everything one of the biggest my biggest takeaways of and I feel like I’m relatively new to the V.O.R. world like within the last year is the sense of scale and it really gives you an amazing sense of scale have that stereoscopic like view because that’s I mean that’s the difference between you have something on like let’s say you know your phone screen or a forty inch T.V. it’s. Two D. image and they might show you show Jupiter flying by on Cosmos or something like that. But to experience the scale of it like this I mean by you if you’re doing like a space simulation or if you’re inside of like a cockpit of an aircraft or something like that the sense of scale in that sense of being there the sense of presence is incredible I mean really really could do here. You’re a mountain now and then just the being there like experiencing that is was one of my biggest takeaways and in fact what really clicked in my head about what like V.R. could do is it sounds so simple is there is a program that you’re sitting in a movie theater by yourself literally and you can you know you can load in a movie file and watch it in the movie theater and you can look around with the unit you see all these empty chairs around you. And then the curtains open up and you can see you know movie trailers or watch a movie or whatever in there. And your first thought is why would I do that when I could watch it on my T.V. exit on my couch watch my T.V. because the unit itself takes up your entire field of view. You literally have the exact same experience seeing a giant movie screen open up in the movie blasting him playing in front of your face than you would if you were actually there because what you’re seeing when you’re in a real movie theater is that field of view that your vision see is and I think we better because you you get perfect three D. and everyone’s an asshole when I go to a remote are they bring their babies. Yes I had that happen to me recently and I got a rash it was awesome. So it was so that he walked out of them from the beginning. So there’s this phenomenon that a lot of astronauts have experienced where you have this sense of your place in the universe once realizing that you know you’re just a speck of dust and one with the earth and this this occurs because you know I mean it’s an it’s an almost completely indescribable feeling and like it’s so common among astronauts in both Russia and the U.S. and whoever else that they they’ve started to dissipate. I don’t know that they’ve started to study it like you know the word like people have like this Buddha moment of like oh my god you could bring that to your living room and start to happen like profoundly changing experience it is already happening. Goddammit Yes it was pale blue dot and there are two different men after saying I’m sick and does the voice over for you so you actually start with the weather if you can see and by the end of it Jupiter’s past you know I think I was going to actually have that feeling when doing one called titans of faith one of the first one to ever come out to one of the best known of that. Like seriously but they just show you the scale they show you other stars compared to the sun and you’re just like Sure and it’s incredible but the total perspective for tax. Yes exactly yes. Kind I’m just I’m just a sinner thing like I enjoy going to a planetarium I think that’s a neat experience. Actually funny enough I love these sort of cross cultural sort of injections right the idea of fashion finding expression in a high tech realm. Their last album release MacIt on the progressive metal band is from Atlanta. Yeah they put on a show for their fans. What was he going to show just listen to the album for us out at the Fernbank planetarium. So nice so everyone’s kind of like zoned in and they flashed pictures of space and like the whole star parent thing and listen to prog metal that gets kind of high at the end of it and the thing is I actually didn’t sleep the night before so I’m like halfway hallucinating going through that kind of thing. There’s a kind of like free acid or something was I recommend the best way to look at what happened but this opens up that exact kind of thing like the new sort of novel right a new way to view only immerse yourself a tyranny or sort of perspective of what can make things great you know not just making it selfish but making it like enabled to be fully understood you know that’s happening it’s going to be amazing when that’s mainstream you know kind of Ron Paul guess right now it’s happening. Yeah I think there’s a V.R. version. Or that the guy that created all of you know his name is Palmer Lucky and he’s doing an interview like this one in the for no reason he just does that he is following his arms right now. You’re right on target. We’re going to we’re going to have to start videotaping this because there’s just too many fun things that I guess I mean all right so the R. is here what I mean like is there some sort of like a breakthrough behind the scenes that brought all this like well like how is it now or that like it’s suddenly here smartphones for the longest time in order to get the hour to work you had to buy ten thousand dollar lenses that were perfectly aligned to get these screens to show up. You also had to do two screens and had to run each one of those screens on a high end computer. Well you know that P.C. gaming is made in that part easy. And then Palmer Luckey realize that if you take a regular smartphone it’s the same size as the human eye and if you just take that same screen you put one camera on one side one camera on the other side you’ll get perfect stereoscopic vision and then he was able to use fifteen dollar lenses because John Carmack the guy that invented doom from and software wrote software that screwed up the image and then the cheap lenses presumed it back together so it looks proper heard Carmex go to screw it up a lot of things. He says OK but like you said He’s a look at the source code for the ordinary you are entering engine that took like if something was supposed to be like I want to have the first inverse square that I don’t know. They like invented like there was a code either for Wolfenstein or what prevent predated it. That allowed for a fast inverse square and the comment next to it was just like voodoo hackery bullshit they didn’t surprise me you know and it was apparently just one crazy engineer from nowhere who knew of it and got in the game and to this day still no one understand why we should mention that you are that guy to me through a weird chain of events. He used to work where I work now. Yeah we don’t we still use his car. Today I’m for real Atlanta back next year as his skills as computational witchcraft. I’m not surprised you can’t follow. He makes my job he makes my life easier every single day and harder probably no I don’t talk about national thing but I do but I do love like the magic of technology and when I say witchcraft it was it was more a philosophical statement than just fun right in light of the idea that you are not physiologically touched at all but through strange manipulations of light and sound you are left to change a person that is you can go into a film and come out not as a new perspective but just like a new like vision of your whole life you know and like sure like old shamans would add maybe drugs I’m sure you know your pay only trip we can how we going to you know but like it almost falls on us to actually in my opinion like inject our personal values or life is what it’s for one can be with these magical powers we’ve been bequeath through our studies well embrace your techno lust. Sure you know if you go into going to that like one thing that can be understated is you know let’s say you’re an experience and there is such a profound difference in for example using a controller to have your character have the view you’re looking at look over your shoulder. If it’s a horror experience yeah then to physically have to look over your shoulder. Only way you can do it is that the unit is designed so that you have to physically look over your shoulder to see what’s coming up behind you. Oh I know I will quick I don’t care how hardcore you are nor I can make you scream for real there is a game so scary that the hardest core people will scream and the weakest people will wet themselves it is that frightening. It’s called Fatherhood but his hand you a digital baby I don’t I don’t I don’t have to give you like a sack of potatoes you know if you’re walking through a dungeon you have to do. And I thought about it he had to do what he’s talking about you walk over to a door and you have to unlock the door and when you’re doing that you turn your head to look for monsters and sometimes there is they’re going to have a faster and when you open the door there’s another monster there’s who is three feet from you and dripping blood in you you freak the hell out was to sidle It’s called dreidels threat hole there is that there’s others games but dread halls is the one where I actually ripped it off my head and ran from my machine. Old you know a good ten feet before I got control myself and came back and finished our views for like out brighter outlook or amnesia. Adjusting that kind of porting games over is kind of getting as they have done it for Slender Man and that’s pretty good. But anytime that you build a game from scratch you know it really has to be for the poor guy RAM is available in P.R. but. Those kind of games are not built for the AR yet so they have to be completely disassembled and reassembled and we see personally I feel like my experience as a hardcore singer should be put into a dragon shout itself so I can actually scare dragons better than other people that that is a thing. Yeah it’s already happening that perfect because you put the mike on and you say the words and because it’s a first person view you see the little wave go out and that’s all that’s all happening right now. I just can’t I mean I’m like I’m thinking of playing it like Ellen Ripley from Alien and just going around this spooky freak and shit. Are you setting this up for me doubting what it’s already happening they’ve all connected they you know they built rich support they built P.R. support into that game in isolation. Why did not only did they build it but they couldn’t afford it and I’ve heard it’s not heard of alienness yet and it’s I thought it was just some peace again. Well it’s exactly what you just said. Really yeah. You play as Ripley but it’s Ripley JR It’s your daughter and you have to hide from aliens it’s frightening on its own. But they added rich support to it so you can walk into that room for real and get impaled on alien for real. They built it in and they decided not to release it because it wasn’t quite ready. But it’s like eighty five percent ready so. What I love about this is that the coders just made it they just made it super easy like like there’s practically an arrow saying Change this to a three and you change it from camera zero to camera three boom wrist support you’ve done. Wow you look that up on You Tube there are people that have that already play that I did I mean that’s that’s incredible I mean I don’t know if I can handle it because I mean when I got it I mean I’ll get scared on occasion in a really well done movie. Like the dissent denies this movie where they all just go down into a cave and as monsters later on that’s not the scary part. The scary part is being lost in a cave. Now if I really felt lost and I had panic setting in mind like that that’s a different level of fear. Imagine if you turned around right now and there was a monster right there that you would scream you would knock the mike over you would at least clear from the danger because you’re a reptile brain is lacking here and he’s already got a monster in his front view so it’s OK. Imagine if there was another him. But I thank you for my nightmares having more than one MATTHEW QUINN in my life because his name is Dalton. Oh God I did another interview and it was you know what a lame goes to the other coffee shop you know and there’s a new version of our old friends you can use already. Exactly and she’s explaining anyone George wants to meet these people she’s like No we already have a George. Yeah it’s like when we met him on their T.V. show goes I have tempted to be like man I can write for these guys and like they already have a max they were just super for we were talk about avatars I kind of feel like Jake is the better looking version of me if I like if I shave my head. Oh yeah me too but yeah it’s very stylish. More about your thoughts when you get some training and I would F.D.R. and probably why Jake is the model in our program actually and I’ve been looking at Jake a lot lately and I was happening but I think you were model like three times. Then you’re also the tell us how to stand in. But you’re the test model in before it’s ready you’re the test model so all I see all day if you can let me know and we are getting into a whole new issue of the Fed is this fetishization idea you know it’s like we are after dark. Oh my goodness. That’s the thing too. Oh I have a question that sounds like the very best not as advanced as you would think but there are a couple of programs that are extremely advanced. You would think that that would be the first thing release but it’s just not just as porn is to the Internet so will it be to the kind of the other way around at this point. That’s how far behind they are on. Well it’s early like you said first Internet site like it took a while before pouring back to the Internet. Well then they were like the pioneers of let me in on the intellectual referencing like That seventy’s whenever they invented it it might like from their own little movie about it like the guys who like what was it I don’t know the name of that I was thinking about that the other day. Like they just basically took photos of some of the scam magazines or photos of some club and they invented like credit card payments to buy I was I was an excellent movie and I actually talk to an adult entertainment lawyer in Los Angeles who knew the guy who was based off mike. It’s just like a total glorification of his own life the way I like it goes up like a Coke engine like comes back down it was like much less impressive and really really really want to what actually happened. It was more exciting reality there’s a whole bunch of money in producing adult films in L.A. I got really into drugs and screwed up his life was going to work and I tell him what I pitch the other day fine you can tell them my reaction Oh no she was a really ugly the video as it is now then just she was like thanks but no thanks but I was like just so you know I actually deal with turn key way to turn this into something where we could make a couple of million dollars overnight but we don’t want to do porn but we could because the technology is there but people aren’t jumping on it yet and in the reason I brought it up to use because the. A version that I was going to pitch was that we could make it completely like man woman in L. G.B.T. friendly that’s true we could release the first the are born gay and it’s for everyone and that’s why I was like you at least need to know what you’re turning down first which you. Yeah turn it down. Do well when there’s a question what do you guys do you imagine we already live in a fully saturated like porno consumption like sort of world. How does like interaction of all change human to human. When that happens when this product is like so it doesn’t it doesn’t know it doesn’t masturbation is just better. It is actually. It’ll it’ll actually improve that but it won’t change anything outside of the sick the stupid thing often just like to point out your clothes it and that’ll be the end of it you’ll just go about your regular day and I’m sure they’ll be somehow liars just as you have people who are addicted to porn right now. Sure yeah I mean it’s like basically back up I’m actually saying there’s going to be some segment who just lose themselves and just like are gone I don’t see you know if you think there’s a danger with pointed with pornography today where you can get all three monitors loaded up with anything you can imagine if you think it’s a problem then the ads can be a problem but I don’t think it’s going to be. I’m never coming out of your porn. I’m going to be that way you’re going to do and then you can be done with it I think that’ll be ninety nine point nine percent sure and I think that like whatever you think of people who are addicted to whatever whether it be alcohol or porn or drugs or whatever like they say it’s the same people you just you just cycle out addictions Again House of Cards Doug Stamper he just cycles out one addiction after another because he has that that you know that he has a disease like yours and dictates on how do you think it will impact social say not at all. OK Well there is also the opportunity for the exact opposite you know. Imagine people coming together just to meditate in a room and like their avatars are only there to be stillness but then they try them with the blackness went on a lot of talk about that Roger. OK you talk a little bit about that no we can’t. That’s got to be with him though this is not I don’t know I’m really trying now. Now he made a video game for the Atari called meditation guru or good reputation or the two thousand edition P.R. now that something else could be something that there is actually there are going to there’s a giant Buddha and it turns them iconic gives you an echo so when you go home gives you a cool echo but when a lot of talk any further about any of that. But essentially the idea that you could use immersion just as credible as a platform of silence instead of like overwhelming stimulation before we started the podcast you said I’m looking forward to you defending it. So go ahead and ask the question now is why why is the argot thing because I feel now is the time that it is that you should act like it’s not a good thing. Well OK My how I’m going to how is how the virtual reality a good thing for the world. How was it not that’s the question I was going to bounce back to you. You give me one example of something that wouldn’t be better if you had complete mastery over that reality I mean like I mean like well I mean how does he get it. As I was awful question. I’m sorry to interrupt you but like I so frequently the entire like theme of mastery and self discovery is just out of failure you know out of like complex out of situations that you can’t handle that kind of jump out of it. Are we. Amounts while arguing the virtue of suffering. You know like are we confronting this kind of nature of development when putting so many tools to kind of avoid it. No way. Actually in a weird way it actually resonates with what the Buddhists say you know reality is fundamentally illusory. You know if you can develop total control over this fake environment and you rejoin the real world you have the same problems you did before that actually could be a very good teaching tool to kind of reminding you like you know I have no control over this world just be and enjoy the things as they come through. You’re talking about one hundred years from now anyway but in that in a hundred years from now we have full mastery over this virtual reality is just like the real one. Think about how much innovation is going to be. Hey I’m going to. A water powered car. Because I just went and built it in the artworks. So let’s three D. printer babble and see what happens. Like now they’re not going to be we’re not going to like what we’re done we’re just going to see how we can make things in the R. happen in real life and people will continue to build and innovate and change and if the R. is better than good it’ll be better. You’re talking about better and there will continue to make it improved. Like I would love not to commit any more I’d love to put that thing on and my boss can walk in my virtual office and see me working that that would be an amazing resource. So what about like artificial intelligence. Do you guys C.V.R. and AI coming together in the near future. No it’s it’s the same level as that video games are the same kind of engine even though I wouldn’t call these video games for real. They’re built on the exact same technology and it’s going to be the same level of AI that you’re seeing and in the best of video games is going to that exact same level I don’t see it improving because of the arm. Personally I mean could it be needed for I don’t know. So let’s say you shot things flat and you’re trying to go into perhaps more like World generated perspective out of it that might need maybe he wouldn’t need it but this is a really specific course I’m just not seeing the AI being improved because now they’re in three D. You can watch Age of Ultron in an A.V.R. theater and I could be one way. I meant to mention that So with that feature the first thing that I when I watch the fiftieth anniversary Dr Who in three D. and then the next day I downloaded the three D. file and I watched it in an identical theater and it was very very similar by the way I watch movies in three D. and N.P.R. from time to time. It’s really really good. I Just another thought and I guess I know I’m like fifty years behind you guys but if you could put someone through the civil war or if you could murder slavery. Yeah I mean that’s another good one. I mean like you would like that’s a that’s a profoundly changing effect I mean in I mean could you imagine like they would probably start to regulate. The N.B.A. interactions like I coul