Good evening internet! Please welcome James Andrews, Key Influencer. James is the host of the Key Influencer Podcast, a public relations expert who has ridden the wave of change with the advent of social media. In 2013, James sold his boutique agency Social People where we had created the 1st Social Media Guinness World Record #BeatCancer which raised $70,000 for cancer in 24 hours using social media and had built social media & data analytics initiatives for clients like Nike, Equinox, The Grammy’s & Beats By Dre. In 2014, he got the “band back together” & launched True Story Agency, a company centered around the belief that every brand has a storyline.
James tells his stories of seeing the greatest industries rise and fall, from the record industry to the dotcom bubble into today. He shares with us that he is a self-professed freakazoid, risk junkie, and traveler, and we get some insight into the soon-to-come mayoral race in Atlanta.
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I try to max Are you good to hear from me again man. No problem are we on are we lie. Yes we are recording. How am I not of. All right. Yeah like I was an early I’ve got slightly convoluted system where the phone calls except in one computer and then recorded by the other one but it all mixed together quite well. No worries my man I do a particular show as well I can be in aware of the challenge. Yeah that was called the key influencer podcast. Yes it is. You know could you. So basically just looking for you know dollars in different parts the community or would you like to explain it. We are recording life. Well this is broadcast live I’m going to there’s a tram bad conversation from a writer. OK cool. And so I return to talk to you know folks are disrupting you know industry you know different industries. So give me a chance to connect with people and it really beautiful space and getting opportunity to talk to people who are really making things happen. Various world. Now that it’s a double double excuse. I was a listen to a lesson with the homu do you record it out of Atlanta. They do are very cool. Yeah we were stationed in right by Georgia Tech at out of my condo. Oh you’re around the corner from me. Yeah I’m on about one thousand Marietta now an hour you know I’m driving from North Carolina about back to one thousand core course. Yeah so. So you seemed like I was looking up your bio you seem to have like a lot of things happening at the same time. Yeah I guess my bio said Man man many thing that one time when it’s always like go between the as it says you know D.J. ing my clubs interviewing thought leaders are putting together the giant marketing promotions thing for whoever the big client is. Yeah I come down with energy. You know it’s sort of blessed with having nine lives and I also feel like I don’t want to be pigeonholed by just being seen as an entrepreneur. Like living in the culture you know I like really you know. So when I get keynote speech is in Dubai. I actually bring my D.J. equipment and for the people who are e-mail were actually let me T.J.. Well that’s not a good writer for the contractors to be like you can only you can only give my opinion if you also listen to my me at the same time. That’s exactly the only way to be like exact opposite of rock stars though because it’s like you can only hear my music if you get my political opinions with it because I think that’s right. Yeah so I guess I’m a man of many talents I’m not afraid you know I wish I could be more. But yeah it adds to my repertoire. Yes Well that’s one question that’s kind of on topic. Well what is the importance. How important is it to curing your public image online. It’s critical and I think what all the hero’s journey you know we’re all telling a story and I think curation is about letting your audience and on that journey you know being as transparent as you want to you know well you know and connecting with someone who may connect with you know the point of that story that are emotional. You know an inspiring or two if you are so I think curation it is critical and it’s kind of a part because it gives performance and function and structure to the social media Bush is talking about anything. You know he I think I think you issues put it all right now I’m getting a little bit of feedback and like a big echo thing and I’m sorry yeah sorry I was moving around that are not OK that’s fine. Well I think that’s an issue in comparison which station here was turning which is going to yourself as having already broken through the other side and brought back the wisdom style or still play with Agent Smith for something. Yeah I think I’ve had many many failures and now but the point you know I’m forty five I’m looking at five years and I have a real clear mission for twenty twenty years and you know I’m a father of two married twenty one years. So you know I think I’ve had you know lots of personal and professional journeys and now I’m kind of you know looking to you know figure out mark of the world. You know finally I feel like I finally I’m ready to like figure out what I want to do when I grow up you know and I think it has a lot to do with the impact it has a lot to do with some you know impacting the world. Now you know spend lots of time around the world though I feel like I’m on the other side you know like I’m ready to really get that I needed to travel and live and fail and screw up and win and lose in order to figure out my mission. OK so what what is your message to the world I want to be the changing impact it’s nice to have the imprint upon it. You know I’m still figuring that out in full transparency you know that would only be right in the hero’s journey let you know that the discovery of what that looks like but it’s an intersection of my my personal my life my family my immediate community along with you know what I see in the world and what I’ve been given an opportunity to to see from truffles and what I felt from people that I connect with around the world and then And then of course professional I like what I’ve been doing for a living what my vocation looks like. So my my case it’s been a communicator it’s been someone who picks fountain and it helps you know it’s the world but you know instead of selling headphones or selling Nike shoes I want to hear out how they kind of combine those things and something that’s a little bit more on mission because I really firmly believe in you know if you read anything about you know my background look big believer in this you know this is a culture that I want to figure out how to get these two or more people put in more hands and create more makers and more consumers of digital platforms. But for good reason not just to sell something. Right right. Looking for actual you know vision as opposed to just stuff to put on people. Yeah exactly and really inspire people with with this you know the promise of building something in the in the Internet and I think that the promise that shelves unlocked things like you know A or B. and B. it unlocks things like a promise of what the Internet can do unlocks entirely new business. So that’s a mom excited and I want to you know spread out around the world. I have this awesome kind of positioning you know with all of my friends who have killed some of these platforms. Now what are they going to run the world and you know a lot of that for my own family. You know being able to show them that there’s another way is other ways to build a business. Look at academia and all that that makes me well. Is there like a weird conflict between what would be let’s say a private identity versus a professional a public branding that whenever you’re trying to be that much out there do you do you get to get to you know cut out of that system every now and then I think you know we all live in public you know it’s all my favorite documentaries we’ve seen that we all live in a public world. And so I don’t think anybody is sort of free from you know being killed or different from reply was especially those of us who have chosen the path of you know media and brand building a personal brand building. Obviously I spent the beginning part of my career making people payments you know and I was quite happy with no one knowing who the hell I wanted and you know I had to sort of embrace this idea of people knowing who I was in an odd way you know and I didn’t come into it. Liking what I saw. But we want some of those. I just saw some you know key influencer at the airport you know Mike. So yeah I was on time so now. Yeah exactly it’s. But we all kind of live in these in these new you know public environment. And I come to grips with it. But you know it challenges things you it challenges like the words you use in platforms how you say it what you’re trying to convey you know. You’re trying to stand for a fight for what drives you emotionally and then what you decide to do with that emotion. Online right like you know what you’re talking about where you’re telling that story about what you’re not about to totally ignore and you know all of the hard way or the easy way about this idea of public persona and try to life and you know I like out of town and I don’t feel like I’m you know I definitely have technology Shabat right so big you know big believer and clocks you know put your you know technology way and engage your family you know and having those you know technology I mean really really connect with the people I’m seeing in front of. Well we’re kind of like an aspirant for that process to try to bring this show like to the public right as a product and the more that like I learn from it it seems like it seems like celebrities a thing almost doesn’t make sense. You know like you know like this obsession with a life that either is live the right way or is like this proof of how wrong we are as smaller people. That’s right. I’m trying to figure out when where it actually starts to happen because it just I would propose a thought like is it just self-hatred that enables this war supposed to lovely to exist not self-hatred it’s some of it is in like wonderlust. Well I did actually revamped who we call to levity. So you know they’re Cather’s who arguably you know people don’t watch with a statement and with the same caution of the celebrity there are You Tubers I think it’s this idea of I got self-hatred but it’s it’s it’s you know it’s it’s it’s it’s a connectedness I guess into that person’s life by by filing into there. Curated experience they’re giving you and you feeling like I have something in common with them which I guess is what intimacy is kind of seeing myself in you. And I think that was I think that’s when I see those extreme examples of this on all the bullshit right. Yeah livestream seen examples on both ends but up but yeah I think I don’t think it’s I think it’s admiration and wanting to see it in life. I firmly believe that this trend of like periscope is a direct result of reality T.V. like if he was like the first gateway drug and now people want a stronger drug. I think they couldn’t bear to scope and they watch people you know how did are you know watching you know that happened by the way I actually other times that people watched on their cat and so I think people think you know like people and straight people casually describe like nice photography is porn right like Earth porn you know it. What do you know what is this like mundanity porn mundanity point of it so good. Yeah that that’s a really you know it is shocking where people will invest their time you know where that that’s a time where they had best their energy choose to engage with it although shocking I think people do find community though in in other people who they themselves are also involved at this point but then they say you know you’re watching to be a cat you’re in a chat with them without you feel like I don’t gotta check their profile. Took I didn’t I you know I jumped in to be a tad early. I came I got one hundred not because I necessarily want to become a famous bridge but because I’m just that and it by this notion of personal brand a person. Actually we’re not buying it. I’m actually you know in the culture at the ball just right. Shocking it’s been a little bit. I still love that example you were given earlier of let’s say the cam billion approach to your career right. Yeah so like you have alternately to come to like our greatest strengths is essentially get past persona and find who we are inside. Yet somehow what everyone else connects with is like whatever perception of that they’ve created. It seems weirdly ironic right now that was like another mass created by the merit of trying to eliminate it. But there are kind of journey that you’re going through to write so if you go to law school and you played the role of the persona of a lawyer and he said you know law firm in a cubicle or the office you realize you hate your job you played up the persona of your community for your family for your wife whatever has told you that going to law school is the right thing to do. But you yourself are not really happy with that persona of that destruction. Eric it’s I think for me what I’ve learned is like I’ve had a very traditional career path and I’m quite happy like I make no qualms about it. What I’m doing today is a direct result of every career journey have taken and you know I think that’s that’s the conflict in the world and I see both people working at Coke right now. Absolutely hate their job and really want to be playing violin in a band right. They’re struggling with this notion of what I have to do this and you know I think for me it’s you know it’s the freedom at forty five I have to make decisions and make choices based on my career you know I’m really good at the cricket. You have mastered the career. It’s because I’ve embraced inadequacies of my career like places where I was really not strong you know I wasn’t an agency person but I first moved to a writer never working as Agency role before and I had to like you know figure out why. Agency like look like the guy with the nomenclature was figure out the process even though I had a bottle that was the music industry and I managed to you know you know how to marketing career but I had to reinvent myself and I think that reinvention propter requires radical transparency and honesty about you know who you are. So that’s the struggle I got at the idea where plays out social like what side of story to tell the world but I think that the war that I see people going through it’s just I hate this job you know the men take this career path and I think that that example of a law firm was exactly. Butler start with. Oh yeah basically great lawyer a big law firm. What’s it all to do a play and then he’s like fuckin Lee and I listen three hundred one hour. Yeah you know and those that actually did skip a big step they didn’t go instantaneously from play only OK OK that is millions of notes I have someone who does your journeys like an idealist that the between. But those are the people who actually gravitate toward you know my front desk Owen who runs the Houston foundation in Atlanta which is why I work in the Jewish Philanthropies world he was a big warrior king and balding and all that they talk to land a firm and just look like tired of burning hours and now you can see him living is passion. You know the Christians call it a purpose driven life going on right. So what’s the first you know when you’re looking at yourself you don’t like your position. How do you first get that clue of what needs to be the first change. Well it’s like this for how much it’s financial support to you how much notoriety you know in your job how important is that to you. For me I had to come to it you know sort of the hard way. I let them carry big job in New York City you know a ninety eight at a big reputable name. Where people were returning my phone calls and you know I could make things happen and how expensive gel I could travel the world into becoming a civilian. You know what I was doing and didn’t have the fancy job title. I had to learn how to be happy you know and and kind of value I would bring to a cocktail party make myself interesting and the job at Columbia Records and you know I began my experience nothing in the broaden you know what it is you know we talk about you know so I think it’s like what’s critical and what’s important to you if you’re a person and you’re allowing it to come in the returns that’s going to be it’s going to be an ugly day for you or a day of reckoning when the layoffs up and when you get demoted when you put a little too much stock in that career. And so I think it’s a it’s a self-analysis of where your values are. Well I saw some of the criticism or the at least the vice if I started in music or sports or anything you know it’s like the rewards aren’t the point right. It’s That’s right. It’s like it’s a journey. Person X. launches the point and then it’s not. Not that the rewards aren’t important but like especially if you want to do the job right. You know if that’s your focus then you’re not going to have even a good product in the first place right exactly and it’s like you know I was like What. One of my becoming at this position like what am I taking away. What what educational they point in to be there you know on the company you work for. So like I always look at that. OK What education of I walking out from this job. How by leveraging from this you know what am I in one of my growing what is an odd thing that I’m doing in my career that that I’m cultivating and learning getting better for me. It was managing a big large development projects for one agency you know I’ve never really managed to get all the parts and I knew it was my sweet spot but I knew I wanted that boy scout badge. You know I knew I wanted to be able. Talk about wireframe you know I do I want to be able to talk about development and manage developers which is a whole different concept and I think each career pivot I’ve made has come with like a Boy Scout badge and but it happened at a point where I went you know what I don’t need the titles anymore I was kind of lucky to get this big fat job like twenty five years old and I was kind of like you know what really sustainable you know and I worked in the music industry and I thought I was absolutely right. But getting around to their work. You’re working at Sony Music you know working at the highest echelons of the record business. You know here I am using the tools and the tools that they need like file sharing. Right that’s going to really affect. And I was like wait a minute. You gotta really take you’ve been here since I live in these communities and you know after work this is well now you know if you like. It’s like watching a week spring up in your boat just laughing and giggling sayings Pingo And so yeah I feel for me. Oh my gosh. At the place I work at is not growing at the same pace I am I got it done. Yes I think it’s it’s that you know it’s really checking yourself around what you’re doing this for a typical bunny ears you know seeing your name in the Atlanta Business Chronicle. What’s the greater purpose of what you’re doing. Well that gets more complex sometimes like oh are you single and you’re able to make contact. I was married I got married very early twenty one years. That’s was how was that. Well I think this makes my Stardock other sting is when he set out to begin the family so we set of the beginning you know the type of life we want to create in the type of family want to raise going to rubble and go toes kind of all of the you know what I do I do not need to do and so I’ve had to make a huge risk elite. You know with someone I know that supports me and my back you know and now that someone has become three now that I know so you know and I couldn’t do anything without my family there’s zero way to do any of this. You know both of us cared fragile twelve year old son of that big jump you know and if it wasn’t for my support system being my family my community there’s the rules I’ve made are always like like no one would ever say you’re going to a dot com When you’re thought by the record industry right when you’re a huge record executive making thirty thousand dollars a year. I was like no I won’t actually go work to dot com And this thing called the web on the Internet you know. And every penny of it has has been really to the outside world like what do you tell me and you know I think you know thing is it becomes an opiate because the drug risk you take becomes like the drug that you want to get higher and higher off just to go into free fall of doubt and again be able to build for comparison in the way back down. Yeah I have a risk to which you want and you have been married to the right person at least has allowed me to make as well. How important is your immediate like social support in this process. Like can if you don’t loan does anyone get it don’t know the first thing I invested in such a great wife was what I call my kitchen cabinet. You know that’s really not my board. What would I change my board a lot you know and my board generally does not look like. Probably doesn’t resemble the industry that I work in. You know so my board are made up of people who don’t actually live in my space but have achieved something have something in the person a professional life and so I’m always shifting and moving that board around. And when I was twenty five I had a mentor by the name of the Baron Taylor he was an amazing man or to work at Sony Music. Incredible career and I learned a lot from him about family and how to you know manage family young family and manage a career. You know it is from there. I just had it on this very intentional path. But I don’t think mentors and I moved to Atlanta. I grabbed yum Arnold she’s an incredible woman to start a company called the dog I see it on the head of the Rotary Club downtown Atlanta you confide to people who are more obvious or people I go watch people like what are they. But I knew who she was I researched her and I saw her out you know and I’ve been dead intentional in my career about you know going after mentors and you know maybe not calling the mentors but telling them to be on your calendar least once a quarter. So I couldn’t make any moves out there but they’re not banned. George Burley actually bring money into my life for playing clients and for my life but really bring wisdom which is a currency that I got along the way you know I kind of rely on the wisdom of my elders and sometimes I do think and I have mentors who are younger than me now. They think I’m mentoring them but they don’t realize is in many ways you know they’re mentoring me. Many of them are made up of the Silicon Valley folks. So a lot of the folks who I run with it. Silicon Valley or such I like a spring on disruptors right that’s right. My show people that like them but by they think like I’m like you know their Ventura Big Brother your my you know your mind is your you’re doing the boot you have the coding and the battle to do the thing. Sometimes I’m scared to do all the job back when I don’t. Where exactly do you have that support unit starts with. I’m also part of something called summit theory. So mysteries you can solve it. Series Yeah it is crazy. A group of guys that had the balls. And the vision of the wisdom and the passion to pay for pokies and but all the conferences and raise about fifty million dollars And by about Utah. So they basically are in Freetown for those of us who are also crazy and nuts and out of control of cocoa connected each other kinds of people take refuge in Utah. That’s right yeah they always out of the history of that stuff. Exactly I would school in Utah my freshman year ironically was about Obama because I was a junior college or whether the Mormon gods but I was well planned it was thought that I lived in Provo and actually my best friends at high school and so they actually again got a penalty. OK Would you knowing what your college here in California are like how do you think. Like all right now you might be happier with Utah. OK another beloved for the Mormon community but at the same time if your early twenty’s and look at the party of my not be the closest friends to make for that they are wrong you are wrong I’m wrong again me there and therein lies the secret you’re the Provo Park City community. It’s actually more wild than you think it is and I probably did most of my party in Utah. Only shocked and pleasantly the plethora of options. OK you know the whole big strip club scene in the hipster music spot an insta Lana How’s the measure up for the Utah. Well I thought the one hundred eighty eight there were no it through that land it wasn’t what broke appetite but yeah it is definitely I have a lot of fun in Utah these days I go for Serenity I go to beauty and I know some experience was pretty much changed my life I basically got thought about where I you know Tony Shea has land land there and Branson has land there and you know I watched the deal come to get a trouble spot over there. It’s really where are you a lot with other folks who are really big boobs crazy doing big things not just the distance but even so you know whether it’s Falling Whistles guys are quality guys or I’ve been able to connect with a lot of amazing Not at all sure I want all sizes and shapes. It sounds like a lot of people spiraling into view women out here something that I mean it’s been accused of. They don’t you know I honestly days it’s probably all between my family and my other communities it’s one of the most by look at the poll that we went to really what Israel for gays and trip we took forty some others on an incredible journey through Israel. You know that’s an incredible thing together and it’s really not about your title. It’s really about you know what you’re trying to do for for for people of all colors shapes sizes. So it’s been a great you know and the people to travel they have a credible background sometimes but what about that that’s really about what you think of it also but you have like me in my twenty’s now really is Atlanta. What I do is I get fired and places like cemeteries and I bring it back to Atlanta and I hope I host a breakfast at the table about fifteen people who don’t know each other the breakfast with me. And there’s three rules you can’t relate to be an authority on never actually can you can talk about what you do for a living for the first five minutes and then we would buy one nonprofit or one person and then we actually not on that person who had a need for the last fifteen minutes and then you talk about we differ a little about the guy one corners really got to your point of view about east Atlanta because of your passion for Tina pops and you know you don’t talk about career you talk about things you feel you up. So it really creates three a lot of interest to be in the room and that’s not just in Atlanta broadly Atlanta I want to live it. What is it that penetrates social media look superficial. But it requires you to make a step to make it you know the connection that you make in your life beyond that rant and you take your breakfast off. It’s paleo social media right it’s like it’s faith based on my social media. I can guess but I have not seen years of like I watch you know life and Facebook and that’s ridiculous. Like I want to know your whole story I don’t want fidgeted gather or make assumptions that I know you are that we know each other with that cortical friend you know confident friend has been marred by that your Facebook friends really want to know who you are in my podcast. If you can really get to know people I knew from around town. But I really did and that show gave me a chance to really know the huge bag around now because you know my friends are retreating thinking of art. When you have for each I think it’s one of the sea where the hot is that’s why you know either that’s really been taken a position that really well yeah dude it’s it is fascinating that like people aren’t ready for big talk conversations unless they know it’s going to be published right. Like you would point like normally normally it’s takes one one hundred steps to even get to like a level of depth or even having now for normal chit chat. But the second it’s like put on a machine like spread across the world suddenly it’s like this opportunity that wow great I feel like you because night to sort of do this and how look like a show I thought I might not see the people who like going to be pretty fast. Right I gathered from my product you ought to get lunch with a friend of suddenly like was trying harder than you ever have before that day. So I put it on me and you know I do believe it like you know social media is wonderful it’s great. It provides a very top line bio of who I am like you like a I read your bio So you did it. Well you actually have a bow. You kind of read what I tell you I want you to know right. Well right now right. Who I really am is the result of a forty five minute conversation or time but it’s one of the things that you know some friends and I have been throwing around what will just be at the buddy system. So you know I was really effective barricade as most people at the barrack and by the tragedy in Charleston. You know one of things that really struck me is that the guy said that you know for forty five minutes for an hour he contemplate not killing so fucking my storm right here being so fuckin nice and so my thing was wow if we actually just really simple things like actually went there with people to talk it out. Imagine a change of Bajor what we can actually date and start challenging Latin American friends and why not after that. But how many times have you now. How many white friendly out all I had done that work at how white friends that he brought to your home and brought to your Tribune and see what hop onto you you know I mean like a different game of the same thing I have to buy white bread. Yeah you’re Black Prince. How many have been to your home breaking bread with your family and I think we need to get to that level. We’re actually eating dinner and dining with coke and having Shabat. If you work with people and you know it’s a different game when you’re bringing people at your home until we could think of the body’s own were hoping it takes off and the idea is bring people from different communities from South with Atlanta and Sandy Springs to have dinner together and you really get to know each other and see they were all that we’re all interested and concerned with the same style use you know the South it’s a real battle rap for like history of civil rights struggle will not happen here but like when it comes when it comes to a real active experiment in figure out how to make it work. Like there’s gonna be fights along the way but honest to God I see it happening more land I would do and Iowa City I go to like we’ll change the happy I think like something like twenty members in Fresno. You know like I grew up I got to California like you know it’s played out differently but the reality is where the South goes I believe the rest of the country will go and I believe we have a real commitment and responsibility to this country to prove out this model of racial reconciliation I guess you will say a racial harmony and inland as always let that right now the Atlanta I live in live on Grant right a little the grid of black white little the grid of it is on the grid you know lots of different grid which is a problem. Right but when it comes together the most beautiful thing I’ve dated the spot. I completely can say that and I begun to six years ago. And I can say this now that when it when it comes together when I when I bring it together it doesn’t come together. Normally when I over dinner it is beautiful but we have to play an active role. Everybody have to get some practice and get a little uncomfortable. You know I had to get uncomfortable with you know giving speeches in part to talk to me that I felt a little weird about right and we all have to get a little uncomfortable for this change to happen and I believe going to happen in Atlanta. Well I got I had a false step and also at an earlier one. So what what what what I really love from what you’re saying is just the way the active engagement like it’s not enough to just be a part but to Lex if you have a vision of what you want you need to be making a step to shape it in the world around you in that way. Have you ever had to like cut people out of your your life out of that system. We’re just not going to mess with our vision. Yes great question by the way. This is by far the best interview. Appreciate your I appreciate your depth and your research by the way because I absolutely believe if you know that my journey and it is a charity has had passengers and people jump on the train or jump on the train you know the people I grew up with high school you know some of them made the trains a little bit. Very few you know as with you I think in my career you know you know especially the music industry to be honest with you when I decide to leave the music industry. I don’t think you know people I was working around that is initially like what is that like you know their world was very you know Senator around celebrities and I just was like I wanted something different and I want to play differently. When I moved to Atlanta most you know people in New York are like you know what your country down there. What do you know do you think you know and so I lost a lot of people that transition. You know I was with you know when I you know decided to start doing work in the Middle East you know a lot of people that didn’t really understand my passion over the believe my journey and quite prepared my train is used to having to just jump on it all and you know luckily you’re constant for your family. But yeah I believe people in your life perceived as a reason and sometimes the people who are here seasonally. It was a great ride with a great opportunity for most people who are seasonal. You know I can always turn to just be connected at a level that so deeply went deep very fast. But yeah I think this you know it’s really hard to build and maintain relationships and friendships I mean social media allows you to check on people who are getting married and his parents died and you know his baby just took their first steps but you know for me to be intentional really requires an adult going to Austin I got to go see body because seeing her updates on Facebook is not enough. And it’s when I make those. Are they closed or really are the people that are really committed to and I really believe in community everywhere it’s as much as I live in Atlanta. I feel super connected to challenge the L.A. ideal supertanker to Brazil and Rio because of social helps me check in with these people but I also feel connected because when I go on business trips I build in time to eat dinner in these people’s homes to to live as a Brazilian to live as an Israeli to live as a local as you buy it you know which I did recently. What is a living in Dubai. Let us have two Lamborghinis in the garage. Part of it honestly. I mean you know that’s the side we see is you know wealthy king at the Dubai you know living in Dubai is living by is a kid who’s twenty three he went to school in America that is asked for being Billy Stern by myopically people American dollars to Middle Easterners you know that’s the Middle East and I had an opportunity three Muslims who were you know mystery in this country in this country and around the world and being you know procedures terrorist people who want to come back to the to the to the U.A.E. and dream big and you know the entrepreneurs and we see the rich kid the Beverly Hills sort of comment on the Graham of Dubai kid but you know I’m next generation of folks believe you know we had Arab Spring that we have we have a new plot about the generation that the number of the demographics is a huge percentage of the population under thirty. So yeah again like you I was that same person my God by you know I’m just a joke. I felt I was that was like year and I got you know not many people got to get in touch. For local there and I’m real. I actually forced myself to be the only American in the room of my last trip to have a friend there in the local US like I want to be all your friends. I don’t want to be with a bunch of extra bunch of bread and a bunch of Russian much African they want to be with all the least you know Arabs and that was a bad ass trip that changed my whole perspective on the game. Wow that is actually really interesting how close do you think the culture is from that point of what you describe as a bottom up value set. I think that how close is it. I think we’re living in it and I think we’re living in you know sort of you know millenia old do it yourself self. May I think we’re staring at the dairy but I think that that you know the powers that be realize that their rain is coming close to to an end and to new powers that be and they are looking at life very differently and they are looking at their connectedness to people around the world differently. I think that even in corporations if you know stuff like you know I’m dealing with you know a twenty four year old that had a huge response of twenty five twenty six year old and have huge titles like you know like big responsibilities because they understand where things are going in their midst and bought about that they put themselves in the player advantageous position in corporation. So they’re you know they’re the ones you know helping the baby boomers you know understand the landscape and so I think it’s happening over there are going to feel attached to it and I think overall the world in terms of power you know changing culture and society you know whether you’re in America. You know where the rich in the Arab Spring you know it I was at a place saw with you know with people you know taking a stand against things that they disagree on and using maker culture and hacker culture. Do it yourself culture to take a stand and to do things and have a point. Do you see more violence on the horizon in making that expression of course. Fortunately this will come without violence. You know it’s part of it’s part of part of change unfortunately if you will treat blood you know the blood will see more blood in the least as we know a blood you know. You know Palestine Well you know where you see more black in America you know I mean people talk about their you know where we’re you know I think we’re living in a very challenging time. It’s part of change you know and yeah unfortunately I wish that were the case. I will say as the Arab Spring began it was the most the use of Reddit and Twitter were so illuminating too just like the inside of cultures that you only get like a media perspective on you know crazy. Like I remember there were so many OP it’s written about the entire underground culture of Iran’s youth in there yeah. Following the Rev following the Islamic Revolution that they had a baby boom now to the point where the majority of their population is under thirty. Yeah and it’s just a day none of them tolerate personally like this this hard right theocracy like driving their lives one I’ve never thought of partying as an expression of your own civil rights. You know like I have I’ve always thought of as like an irresponsible thing I do because I’m you know sliding off or something. If you people do with the threat of their own fucking lives you know. Yeah yeah. Just blows me I know it’s really interesting it’s you know we’re seeing this sort of talk about disruption in so many different levels. You know we. Yes consumers are tired like I have to turn a station for you know you know I’m a guy that like wants to hear my i Pod Shuffle right. Like on the airwaves I think about it that’s out beats radio is doing right now. Mike your track record I’m a listen to a weird trippy you know trying to record all in one of the Apple be pretty low mileage but it is the is the radio we’ve all been wanting and it’s going to disrupt traditional radio four back in a way that you know we have and it’s going to open up. Do you think to scout for you know in a dream before and I’m just like really tough about this possible approach which is OK if your radio sounded like your i Pod shuffle you know and so I’m watching the music industry. The creators are excited about it. Right you know because with Khalifa wants to play with Alabama Shakes record on the show you know but like he’s not supposed to but he’s a rapper. Right. Or like we’re locked into these archaic forms of like what we think people who you know like oh you’re white you don’t but that’s normal like your top is pop culture at this point you know it’s not like it’s not a big deal. But like you know way from these archaic ways of looking at like content and now we’re moving into this open for open source to go play you know one thing about how to get my best and the best thing about having a D.J. as a phrase is you see trends through the eyes of a D.J. He probably has a two hundred thirty day to year from Abu Dhabi to Denver to you know just go and he tells me like the types of clubs that are hiring him and what they are wanting him to play and the ships have been amazing you know I mean so and so now. And Vegas what’s driving the dative clubs the if not you know thing your head think it’s like the detail can cut across genres. It’s a crush. You know all kinds of job. So anything that goes on right. That’s that’s really cool. How do you see growing up changing. Let me rephrase this so basically before the Internet there was at least not every fuckup you had as a kid was on record. Right so right. People grown up now have basically got complete documentation of everything they’ve done every random thought they’ve had in their entire lives forward. How do you see just how do you see this changing power structures business cultures like we’re already seeing the consequences of it getting fired for making something ignorant statement online or something. But is there no next step to this or is it just a different form of charity. I think I think we as a culture going to have a great story. Things that happen you know on the road you know you get it. It should matter think we lost it. You saw them. I am not there for him and as we’re almost an hour so I figured we could finish the question or maybe just have some fun answer. If there was any more to the conversation well you know I answer the question because you could such great if you’re anybody you know researched me you know the top of my search results on Google are going to see something that happened to me in two thousand and eight where I had a racist sensitive enough to start a C. and I used my Twitter platform to actually talk about the problem was I was working for Chechen P.R. and I was on this trip and that this and I used to respond to something that really affected me and I was there and not being on the spot. So I said to confess to a child I would die. And what I mean that was OK It’s a crazy idea that doesn’t sound like this is a genuine James. Yeah I don’t really want to. They all you have to get better because I’ve never told a story before and I really want you to get this because there are a small group about this thing that happened to be on the Internet and it really an honor to kind of give this to you in a way that I think the it’s been like those two thousand eight years you know that but I’d like to give this to you in a very transparent way. So we like to tackle this one answer when I’m in a better zone. Oh yes sir. This week with a release schedule will probably have a little time before it or if you want to call back when you hit me or something. Perfect. So I can actually call you tomorrow officials are to write letters and I would be better. So yeah I’m on the road for about an hour. Well what. What time are you up where you have to chill. I’m living two lives trying to you know trying to make the so public and I’m also who financed life existing So OK I think I hit I hit Georgia Tech area what to our real. But I’ll be up in the area about an hour and fifteen minutes to come over here. All combined. Absolutely. That was one Yeah I live in the giant lofts. It’s an across from the aquarium across an aquarium on here. It’s one block from lucky. That’s the corner of Ivan Allen in Marietta. Oh you’re on the pure my right home starting to my cars my car is at my office and there is tree and I live in the park so that to go that way go. OK perfect. You can you text me your address. But yeah no worse. OK Thank you. All right so this is the only first for our show where suddenly we start on the phone decide a receptions to belt us drive over and you know it’s one of those things where you are asking so many great questions and I felt you know the vibe I felt the energy I felt your passion and I was like and then of course serendipity as soon to be having your your house is literally down the street my office on my way to my house you know it’s like I need to come over. So we’re doing part two this interview that’s right. Give a name for this thing. The show is called Comcast Level What’s the lab called like this is a lab. I guess I don’t have names probably don’t want a million and they’re just going to contrast a studio that’s really what we got but yeah superset I’m joined by my composure a Cambo King. What’s up everybody. Campbell King Nero code doing amazing things in your code and we just got back from hacking on an idea. North Carolina all the way up north. Elected back in the same day we do this. I love rally man it’s not like the highest density of grad students and Ph D.’s of any city its peers and with my second time ever being mean I feel like everybody was Brainiac. Actually everybody with a ph feeling a bit of everybody in the room we were able to be we’re all pistes you’re right you’re probably right but yeah we go that it was like a mix was saying what was it like U.N.C. Chapel Hill next to do do it for something else. You know all that circles is right there. Yeah and different she she quit. Biology Masters to be a weirdo artist and I was in rally doing that at the same time and it was just funny that you can see that there’s an ecosystem. Yeah. All of your crazy ideas. Yeah. Which Atlanta still working on. Yes working on it. They’re working on. Well it all boils down to network. Right that’s true that’s let’s at least you has expertise right. That’s kind of where I was going with my part one of this part is the idea that your network is your net worth you know and I’ve invested a lot of time in building a network and I feel like where I was sort of going in the first part of our interview was that Lana is at the Kairos moment you know it’s the Greeks used to measure timing Kronos in Cairo says the other things were either chronology from Cairo to the spirit of time with them as a very spiritual thing happening kind in the city and I feel part of that and I feel like you have to catch it in a bottle. Are you going to look back on two thousand and fifteen as a really important year. So you’re going to like the reinvestment into all the downtown areas the West the town area it’s even more macro and better than that it’s like it’s actually the people that are moving here that coming out of a down economy the changing of the Guard you know in the mayor’s office which is coming up the belt line which is opened up walkability crock Street which is opened up new vendors health and wellness which is starting to become really important the city if this is a lot of forces going on and I feel like we’re going to look back on this year this is like the first moment that public transit is not a dirty word. Yes emissary point. Point before that and what was it like just this week then out from a billion dollar like ten year plan to just completely change like the split through Marta Oh yeah well people are accessing the city over layers upon layers of plans as it relates to transit so the friends of the beltline has two or three other contractors that are doing trolley system in transistors connected to maters can get off the tram here can make beer. I mean is going to be an amazing feat like it’s a real God Himself. Welcome to the real city of oil pollution. Actually exactly the big the big town made good. Perfect Yeah. So it’s Man this is great it’s good to know that you have a show like this for weirdos and freakazoids like myself in. CAMPBELL Well I mean we doesn’t because oh it’s you know all need to band together lest they be left behind as our weirdo. YEAH SAME SAME THING I think it becomes part of like a song we can all see it. It’s a weirdness and harmony. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. So I were midway through a story. Yeah I was where you were talking about the consequences of perhaps unfiltered tweeting. Yeah yeah so you know I like so many of us working in tech and I got involved in social media pretty early I would have to say that I was one of the first in the first wave of Twitter had no problems jumping on. I also worked in a pretty senior role at Ketchum public relations where my job was to to help clients and consult them. So this is two thousand and eight and I I was also going to this period where I was frustrated with living in Atlanta I wasn’t sure this is the place for me I didn’t feel like this was home and home for me is the Bay Area so I grew up with high school crush Stanford Palo Alto and I happened to be home from Macworld and crazy like a little high school thing we took a field trip to Matt. Right right. During this time my field trips are pretty high school but I happen to go back to the valley during back room two thousand eight and so I’m back home from Macworld with a client I’m like man just feeling like of the good energy and feeling like this is this is home in the Bay Area. This is amazing and I don’t have a follow up trip to Memphis Tennessee to look after a client Fed Ex and so I literally flew from San Francisco feeling the sort of like you. This is home internet facility. I live in Memphis Tennessee. Afternoon and pick up my rental car on there forget I got upgraded to this like bright red Mercedes Benz and a pull into where Fed Ex is located which is call your Tennessee movement outside of Memphis and I pull in and it was just one of those moments where just like in this is an average day in the life of a black man can happen in Fresno could happen anywhere and I know it could happen. Yeah and I just was moments where I walked into a crepe shop and white women were grabbing their purses and you know as well as moments where it’s like OK here comes the other guy with dreads he’s walking in right and those things happen all the time so when you when you when you live in this skin it’s kind of a normal thing but I think it bothered me in a way that I was just like us that you know. Yeah and mind you in this particular day Obama had won and we were just about to inaugurate him on the weekend some kind of feeling like this Come on America hurry up catch up you know and so and so grabbing a purse is in the skillet frustrated I my next stop was the Marriott Courtyard in Collier Tennessee and I pull up to the the courtyard pull out my ID and credit card and I swear to you the process must’ve talked about thirty minutes to get checked in. So he wanted me to call people he had never been to an interrogation at the Courtyard Mariya to just get into my room and I just want to get to my remote so tired some frustrated after a day it’s been a blackmail and I get to my room and I tweet because I you know when you have this new found platform right so I just built itself to be a complete sort of extension of yourself why not let it flow a flow so I said you know it’s true confession I’m in a town that I would die if I had to live here you know which is code word for those of my friends of color which races cities in today and I honestly sent a tweet went and found Corky’s bbq which Memphis is famous for. Rushed the bridge redemption. Yes I crushed him I heard those and then I went quickly to sleep and totally forgot that that that I do like the idea that poor community you know if you know if I were cute if only because that will bring together the Israelis and Palestinians really well only they can just let go out right away that’s why they’re fighting. That’s exactly why we thought it was the Hamas is actually the fourth. So yes I ate my pork and went to sleep and totally forgot. I wake up the next morning in this wonderful woman from Fed Ex pick me up because I’m giving a speech in front of two hundred people about what subject social media so I am the sole expert will circle the circle. I’m the social media expert I started the social practice. I am the person that people ration is turn to when they have challenges around social media so they pick me up and it’s a clock in the morning and I give this big speech and the economy’s in the shitter and people are like Who is this guy. So somebody in the audience starts to do a little homework and the first thing I do is look at my Twitter profile how in the first week they see is true compassion in a town I’d die if I do live here and the assumption he makes is you’re bashing my town. So he begins to write me a scathing three page e-mail see seeing C.E.O. of Fred Davis on down right. And my chairman and my C.E.O. and my boss and he writes this letter and says I know it’s unsightly near the airport. I know we have our problems he assumes I’m from New York. You know I know you’re from New York in your big city slicker you know we’re you know we’re Southerners and we’re proud of our city and he didn’t you know he’s right there and doesn’t realize it from Atlanta and so forth. So I am giving a speech so I’m not checking my phone I don’t see the e-mail. Then after the speech I’m supposed to give two workshops. So I leave from the big stage into the workshop rooms. Now by this point his letter has. Her first all throughout the company. So I go in a smaller room and I’m giving a speech and it’s like I’m feeling really bad it is yours and there’s a stuff right so I said what’s you know what’s going on there like a you know we saw what you wrote on Twitter. And so I said What did I write what I wrote my wife I did a lot so I pulled up Twitter and see the tweet I wrote last night and had to let these fine folks who call you Tennessee know that you know it’s a day with a bad day is like Ice Cube you know I think today was a bad day I had some run ins with with you had to use your ticket. Yeah exactly and so I had to you know I had to do it had to do this after American woman thing that happen to you in color you’re like come on now let’s say that this happens a lot. It’s not just Collier It’s everywhere in Tennessee were in Tennessee. So I pretty much got shoot out of there you know I got rather And so what happened was the letter leaked to a blog to Peter Shankman. It leaked to the Shakman report which is one of the biggest sort of blogs in the media world back then and is that the C.E.O. of The Drudge Report. Yes Kind of. Back then he was the he was the P.R. person’s you know blog or whatever it is follow the interesting train because as it’s leaking the Shankman I’m on the phone to my boss who screaming at me right now saying What the hell did you do what to have it you know what you know Screen Media Yes P.R. No Yeah exactly. So as he’s talking to me the letter and the blog post gets picked up by Gawker and I am on my way to two from Memphis to New York to give the same presentation to the number three executive at their next so I’m on the plane with a full on outbreak. I’ve gained a thousand followers on my Twitter account. Everybody’s paying me and we’ve a full on media outbreak the first of its kind in two thousand and you know represent like a full position politically and like racially just by having one little moment I feel like. I was for a stretch but that’s it. And at the time I was so honored to have this this this Wall Street Journal dot pixel photo from my dot com days in ninety eight and so there’s a picture where it looks like could be a white guy right James answers and no one really knows that this person who sent this for Mackie influencer is black. So these people are vilified they are crushing me like how dare you bash your client the lead lines are P.R. executive bashes his client in their hometown. Right so it’s full on by the time I land in New York City from Memphis it’s been read thirty thousand times full on outbreak meeting in chairman’s office A.T.M. So I called my lawyer I’m like the pair so I go in the lawyers I go into the kitchen chairman’s office and I sit down there’s all these P.R. people around me know like OK and I’m a social media person. Like they’re like they’re giving me social media bias to the guy was like right. They said we’re going to do a press release I said listen this is what we’re going to do I have a blog. I’m going to blog and give context and colour to the actual tweet because my problem was I was snarky. You either don’t say something or you say something in full you don’t be snarky right there is only what you want to hammer is never. That’s that’s right. Meijer It was crazy. Should’ve been snarky or should not have done it right and so I did it and I was in this gray area and so I want to blog about what I really felt with color in the context and I was I started blogging hey this racist incident prompted this tweet which you know I was apologetic when my I was a boy and I was asked kindly to to probably not use the word racism. It was if you remember inauguration weekend it was M.L.K. weekend which was it was actually the anniversary the assassination by McCain where that happened and then we also was the weekend of Obama’s inauguration. Right so everyone’s thinking don’t you guys have enough prose that is why we’re being angry now that what they were they were like no you know it’s going to go away but you know this inauguration is going. Go away. I said let me I am the person I’m seeing is the expert in this company if I don’t give context I look like a dumb ass. So I they wouldn’t allow me to write it in the way I want to write it and I wrote a very pattycake response which I still regret to this day but you know I ended up you know not thinking about it and then ironically something happened to me two weeks prior to that I became friends of Jane Fonda is really random occurrence in Atlanta Georgia what a way to reunite whatever despair you create between yourself and the south. Yeah. Yes So I became friends Jane Fonda before this incident happened I just I think she like pose would be a car like back in the day for about screwing up your image perfect transrational into my story. So she’s known as annoyed Jane in circles right. She’s proposed as profusely for doing this right. And so you can imagine a woman who’s done this you know has a huge a huge hatred out there. I mean Jane Fonda for breakfast at Highland bakery I convinced Jane Fonda become a blogger teller two weeks later that I’m going to have dinner with her in New York this day happens to be our first in New York dinner where I’m going to build the framework for her for Jane Fonda dot com So this is the week that the non-racial happens the James Andrews Ketcham big P.R. thing is happening and my first date pizza date with Jane Fonda at her apartment so I tell her after a very long day I catch him. She’s like Hey kid would you know your little way what happened what’s going on I was like it’s really hard to explain everything Twitter I’m trying to get you on the well I said this week and so forth she said please you know what my life is right. So she has this whole thing she really does a lot of comfort. We launch that was probably a Monday night. We launched in found on Wednesday. Ironically a blogger tweets about my thing that happens and it fires up again. I have you know cyber bullies people you know calling me out so forth. What help me during this process isn’t launching Fanta probably on that Wednesday or Thursday. If you received the type of hatred that she received in Facebook on her blog you wouldn’t walk outside the doors of that security problems you know and she would say back to my game to me. No problem getting in the Prius and roll around Atlanta and it was sort of this thing where wow this woman can handle all of this my little thing is really small because I’m talking about it was I will kill you bitch. Refuse the jhana out and go back to where they would go back to where you came from. Owners always like and fuck Obama. Each one ended with my life so I knew there was a thing going on in America at that point yeah you have to became a lightning rod for everyone else’s anxieties that’s what I heard it I heard it on Dr. So if I was Jane and dealing with her craziness during that two week period we first love was it can to help me put my little problems like so what. Like basically I got picked up by the Constitution. A.B.C. World News Tonight. Levis commercial appeal I pretty much was on any beat P.R. blog or any media and we bring all those things I was the scapegoat for the executive who actually said something out about this town look at the dangers are still valuable. Exactly but because I had Jane Fonda as a client and a friend my new friend. Yeah I actually was able to like really minimize this this goes perfectly back to earlier like hero’s journey. Garrison It’s like you’ve entered the fuckin cave of darkness and you have no means to get through and suddenly the one you find in the stores was where there’s a way of showing the way forward here Jane Fonda. The least likely of allies I felt sure and bring you out to emerge to find the actual beauty amidst amidst the abyss at the crisis moment Bowl experience for all that I never thought about like yeah you’ve actually framed it correctly that is. Well I think a very dramatic sense. I was I was describing trying to date a musician in town is literally Orpheus railing at the moment of entering the eighty’s it’s not important. Oh I have some more time over here. This guy’s got it. I was yeah I was a hero’s journey take me to all these are the books I did not read. So you don’t want to drop a bomb of that one OK. I have technically mentioned it probably every episode since we relaunched but still you open a door. I did I am so that’s my story and I really want to come to your house and actually I’ve never share that story. Really it was quite a media s