This is our conversation with renowned ufologist Stanton Friedman. Stanton is a nuclear physicist and veteran investigator of flying saucers. He was the first civilian to document the site of the Roswell UFO incident and maintains that it was a genuine crash of an extraterrestrial spacecraft. In this conversation, Stanton shares with us his experience in gathering first-hand accounts of UFO sightings and his exhaustive research into top secret documents. He has published several books on the matter including Top Secret/Majic: Operation Majestic-12 and the United States Government’s UFO Cover-up and Flying Saucers and Science: A Scientist Investigates the Mysteries of UFOs: Interstellar Travel, Crashes, and Government Cover-Ups. You can stay current with his work at www.stantonfriedman.com. Joining us in this episode is Comcastro co-founder Matthew Queen. Let’s get weird.
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How are you doing today Stan. Pretty good keeping busy. The rest in the life of the. You have all just well it probably isn’t but I’ve got a column to finish an article to write and you know. So we’re keeping busy trips to plan you know here once a point to be an old if you can’t do anything interesting. Absolutely I think that’s kind of the best the best kind of old is the active old I guess. I oftentimes imagine myself you know not retiring. Specifically because I think you know if you like what you do. I mean I mean like we should all want to do it now. All right so let’s listen. I got I go I saw no reverse second. I remember seeing you on the History Channel when I was a kid you know like every rainy Saturday afternoon you know the history channel it’s that they’re like I don’t like one thirty in the afternoon. You know they’re not you know they can only show so many documentaries on Hitler so of course you got that. They bring out the U.F.O. crowd and who’s leading the pack every single time. But you I mean you were like the face of non crazy U.F.O. stories. And the big mouth on the street. Well OK Well here’s a starting question how much how much is the public just not aware of them. There’s a great deal. The public is not aware of on several different levels. The two primary ones I guess are the secrecy side and the other is the technology side. You can’t get here from there and governments can’t keep secret with that why bother with flying saucers you know. But most people seem to be blissfully unaware despite all of that. New to you know it on the Internet and stuff. The factual content is minimal and just a couple of things at random. I surprise people by pointing out that the N.S.A. and everybody’s heard of the N.S.A. Now thanks to Mr Snowden. Let’s say you know they released one hundred fifty six pages of top secret U.F.O. material way back in the eighty’s. The only trouble is that you can only read one sentence per page everything else is Why do that and the CIA which had released seven eight hundred pages of stuff through secret many years ago finally got around to releasing a few dozen documents that were top secret again. But they’re all blacked out except for six or eight words. PAGE That’s pretty insecure because you are is part of a government body. What now is a code word. If they go through the secrecy sink sequence say you go through restricted and confidential and then secret and then top secret and then top secret code word that code word could be magic it could be ultra usually five letters. But that means there’s a popular misconception if you’ve got a top secret security clearance you can see everything it’s top secret Well it’s not so you get cleared for a certain small compartment. There are some compartments that I understand of fewer than ten people that are cleared for access to them. So armor is just one of those code words and it was crossed out but you can read it on service. And I don’t know they didn’t do it really thorough job because they didn’t care they’re not telling. Anything and I get some people telling me Well you know it’s not important. That’s just as sources and methods information that’s why that’s why all that stuff is restraint redacted as they call it and that’s nonsense you can’t have a document that’s ninety eight percent sources and methods information and two percent useful and that makes no sense. I worked for Wrote classified documents I had access to materials and this compartmentalization is a big part of the problem because for example when I was working on nuclear plans for General Electric way back late fifty’s farmwork was secret restricted data and there was a document put out every month of the classified abstracts documents being produced under government contracts during Yun and I was interested in radiation shielding that’s what I was working on and I would see reports from the Navy and I had the right clearance. But when I went through our document control people to try to get it didn’t have access you have to have a need to know and an appropriate clearance and if you don’t have the need to know which is what gives you access but you agree then you don’t get access. So it was very frustrating and it was work out there that would probably be useful to me but I didn’t have access to it. So something at that level that at that level secrecy with that level of redaction what So in your mind if used to be extraterrestrial encounters or someplace. Well I mean you know I’m not going to read their minds. But look once you recovered bodies and wreckage of a strange craft what also is a hole in the ground I mean you know they’re coming from under the ocean. The most secret so I will. Well I mean why why would you build mother ships and fly. Vehicles if your existence is underground you know. And where do you get the ability to do that it takes a lot of activity to build say an airplane there it’s a saucer rager airplane in a refined metals you know you got to assemble them you know so there’s no question in my mind that we’re dealing with the cosmic Watergate an extraterrestrial spacecraft. Now we got to ask the question properly the question isn’t are all you have those alien spacecraft Of course not. OK Are all isotopes fissionable of course not but if I want to build a nuclear reactor I use one that is you know the basketball coach knows most people aren’t seven feet tall. Give me one actually wants one for a game. OK so I have a question. Yeah a lot of these government documents and stuff and to be frank were extremely fascinating in the ninety’s but less fascinating now with the age of the Internet and that Freedom of Information Act My question to you is how how is the mystery behind us I was still around in the age of the cell phone when everyone in the Western society has a pretty solidly powerful camera sitting in their pocket. Shouldn’t we have well now we have lots of home camera photos and so on pictures but a cell phone by and large is not a good camera. The thirty five millimeters lived forty years ago had better resolution than today’s cell phone amid ten megapixel camera. Now you can get a good one for forty megapixels but your fears are if you are very kind of show the U.F.O. it’s a myth. Another words besides which people they’re afraid to get hit by the guy driving next to him or. People don’t look at the sky. We do have the Russian dash cam footage now though that was pretty interesting to you. Well was it the asteroid strike that happened that is the only footage of it because everyone has insurance fraud cameras on the car. I’ve heard about that I haven’t seen it. I think that’s intriguing that it’s in the Soviet Union. Well apparently really we’ll trust a reliable insurance companies here in America or relationship to the insurance from people compared to their who now that’s funny. Yeah. What the problem is of course that people will say well that’s Hollywood that’s Photoshop and there is plenty of photoshop stuff out there and what we want is something more distinctive than that. Well let me illustrate the problem in a different way. Everybody has been brought up to the notion in the United States anyway that it was the Air Force Project Blue Book was the group that investigated U.F.O.’s they really didn’t find anything so there’s nothing to it. And that that was the mythology that went from about fifty two to sixty nine. Now that project was closed at the end of one nine hundred sixty nine because of a memo written by General Carroll Bo Linder is an Air Force general who’s an engineer on the lunar excursion module program. When we landed on the moon in mid one nine hundred sixty nine and the University of Colorado study at the beginning of sixty nine had recommended that project be closed because it wasn’t contributing anything to intelligence or science or whatever. Why waste the time and manpower. But that was what condensate. So here they get an Air Force general who had nothing to do with Project Blue to evaluate the situation. What should we do. And so he wrote a memo which resulted it was in October of sixteen I read resulted in the closure at the end of the year and in this memo he said reports the Web phones were. Could affect national security are made in accordance with Jane joint Army Navy Air Force publication one forty six or Air Force manual fifty five dash eleven and are not part of the Blue Book system. Now that’s an extraordinary statement then two paragraphs later he says if we close Project Blue Book The public won’t have a place to report U.F.O. sightings However as previously noted reports which could affect national security will continue to be investigated using the procedures designed for that purpose. So this is out kind of internal censorship method by mail to the public into these kinds of situations. Well certainly the intention not to release data is the military and other thing but there is more to the story. I looked at this and thought well the Air Force has been saying for umpteen years and since that time we didn’t get a copy of this memo until one nine hundred seventy nine it was written in sixty nine and I think it was inadvertently released with a bunch of other documents a guy made lots of requests under Freedom of Information Act So I thought maybe I can find this general Boland or I don’t like looking for John Smith. But CAROL BOLAND or other be fairly distinctive when he was a general who should be easy to find so I found I called him and I said I gave him some background you know I worked under security for hurting your illuminator sinew of Saturday and then I said I really was intrigued by your memo because it seems to me that you are saying that there are two independent channels for the reporting of U.F.O. sightings. One involves cases that could affect national security and I gave you an example because I just heard about it at that time. I’m a saucer going down the runway at a strategic air command base where nuclear weapons were stored. By definition that’s a national security problem not supposed to be a need. It’s a secret. Existing people. Well look there are plenty of people with clearances around that they exist but they are under constrained as to what they can say and and I said in the second group would of course be if my wife and I are at the end of the runway in a saucer goes by big deal it happens all the time. Two separate channels right. He said yes. Now the if you look well in my book Top Secret majic I have the correspondence between a senator from Washington state wrote the air force on behalf of one of her constituents for clarification about some U.F.O. stuff and the Air Force officer wrote back with a bunch of lies. But one of them was particularly heinous if you will. We are not aware of any other government agency besides the National Archives that has any material on you of us with absolute law and it took me six pages in my book to respond to this one page letter. So they don’t seem to mind lying and I also have included in recent years they wrote a letter Air Force officer Special Investigations US intelligence agency had sent I have made a request under Freedom of Information for stuff about U F O’s and a colleague managed to get a letter from them to headquarters from the particular group that I had talked to written saying we have reason to believe that in the near future some or all of our groups they have the small military groups all over the place part of O.S.I. will be receiving a request for information about U.F.O.’s from Stanton Friedman and I why did out where my address was very kind. If such a request is reached. Do not repeat do not respond as required by Air Force regulation twelve days thirty. Instead send the forwarded to us and we’ll take care of it so everyone is spending themselves against your inquiry. Well yeah and there’s been a lot of that going on not just me. John Greenwald has the blackball website which has thousands of documents on the Senate from and it’s from a collection of data and. But you can’t get the good stuff. And that’s what’s so frustrating and also when it’s funny people in New York focus unity when the N.S.A. released these hundred fifty six heavily redacted all but once this article pages I had people call me sense Dan they’re not covering up any more they released those documents and I said Can you read underneath the white out that’s on there. Well no they aren’t releasing it of you know the doctored thing is a huge problem. But I’m very interested in the primary sources you collected just on the general question of what kind of profession do you see the most maybe zeal for the belief maybe pilots or astronomers are really astronomers are the least likely to believe and I think the general public and especially ex-military guys most people believe in flying saucers but mostly will unfortunately believe that most people don’t believe in flying saucers. So they’re reluctant to report their sightings. And the press does a lousy job one of a dozen Ph D. thesis that’s been done and there should be many more press coverage of you oppose from over about a thirty year period and had scathing remarks to make about the inadequacy of the coverage the failure to deal with the witnesses that they’re going to go to the right sources etcetera etcetera. Back I had a reply thousand clippings. Feel sorry. So this is basically just from self-censorship it’s not possible this is true so people just choose to omit all evidence possible. Well look I find I’ve given over seven hundred lectures. I’m not a masochist I don’t do this because I expect the slings and arrows of our greatest bankers. I’ve had eleven hecklers and over seven hundred lectures and two of them were drunk and you get that many talking about religion sports politics with more than two drunk hecklers talk about religion sports or politics or any of that. Well you know what I’m saying is that I come on very very strong and people are quite well. Good example University of Manitoba in the auditorium and a full house people sit in the aisles and at the end of my lecture the first question years and under how about pulling this audience given some Gallup poll data which showed Incidentally the greater the education a more likely to believe in flying saucers etc And I said well I don’t usually ask the audience to put their neck out you know go out on the limb that’s my job so I don’t think anybody mind and it really collapsed so I said OK I’ll ask two questions first is how many think some photos are intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft and the second question will be how many think no phones are intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft so then I ask the questions. It was about I’m better than ninety percent who said they think some U.F.O.’s are really in space craft but along with this we have this strange situation I had a professor I frequently visit classes on campus and you never know what’s going to happen if you know what the attitude or how we’ve been prepared for whatever. And in one class the professor asked the students in Poland before. Already showed up eighty percent thought that most people didn’t believe in flying saucers but when he checked and how they felt themselves eighty percent didn’t believe in the search. Well speaking of didn’t believe you mentioned something earlier that I just can’t let go. Astronomers don’t believe in us close by and large but they’re the people who sit around day and night studying the stars now studying the stars is not studying you oppose a small rise very small solid angle thing in the sky. They’re not wanting around looking at the sky and saying gee a wonderful flying saucer would fly by. They use major instruments which they program you know with good computer programming stuff to look at and it tiny tiny chunk of the sky. They’re not the car you are looking for. Well they refused to study the U.F.O. evidence look at their books and see how few talk about flying so I’ve dealt with these primaries and the the SETI cultists as I call them said he’s so we have to investigate you know. Well that’s an ignorant they are ignorant they don’t want to look at the data for two reasons because they think that’s kookie stuff and what the SETI people if aliens are coming here only needs radio telescopes you know learn sign language. And I’m the beta doctor says trust a nice guy. Head of the SETI Institute really the chief scientist for them and we debated for three hours on Coast to Coast radio and I won fifty seven thirty three ten percent who said I don’t know or. But when I asked we each gave three lectures on a free trip we each got from the British magazine on the Queen Elizabeth two from England to the New York. Our three lectures and so of course we sat in on each other’s lectures and in the course of mine I talked about five large scale scientific studies and after each one I describe what was in it showed a slide etc To me it would be Powerpoint and I ask after each one how many I have read this and Dr Shostak haven’t read any of it. So it’s not surprising it lost the debate because he didn’t know the facts about the subject. They also astronomers have nothing to do with the development of advanced propulsion systems and or with government secrecy you know if you publish in a scientific journal that’s the only way to learn anything of course that was great. Well there’s a great deal of information the research and development that goes on that isn’t published in scientific journals I know I spent fourteen years of my life doing that sort of stuff. And let me illustrate two statements by Dr the guy who took over from Carl Sagan on the Cosmos you know. TYSON Yeah yeah. It’s very personable he’s good on stage and so forth. I don’t lecture at Penn State University he said but the proof that the government can’t keep secrets is how much we know about President Clinton’s genitalia. That’s a very funny remark but what’s it got to do with the N.S.A. CIA you know all of the habits of agencies. Nothing. He also on a Peter Jennings mockumentary as I call it way back it’s almost ten years ago now I guess he said look our fastest craft would take seventy thousand years to get to the nearest star if it were headed in the right direction which it isn’t. Well that’s true but irrelevant. It has no propulsion system on it it’s coasting down a bottle in the ocean and saying that’s the fastest way to communicate across the ocean. So you’re saying that others. It’s ignorance at this level there again. It’s just they’re imagining that new physics can’t be accomplished to make these distances while they certainly look let me give you an example a great astronomer Simon Newcombe in the early part of the twentieth century wrote a long piece in which he concluded that there’s one thing is certain about the man will never fly any distance in a vehicle that was two months before the Wright brothers’ first flight. The British astronomer while in one nine hundred fifty six you can’t be more exalted than and for goodness sakes said that space travel is utter builds. I was in Time magazine that wasn’t just a casual comment that was a year before Sputnik what technology would it take to go from planet to planet in a way that you could create. I want to go from start of star Don’t you know we’re from a planet in the solar system to a planet another system just within our own. Well there are several kinds I worked on some of the most likely the easiest to conceive of is a fusion propulsion system fusion is what powers the universe our star the Sun and all other stars produce their energy not by burning gas which is what we thought it was and took nine hundred thirty eight when I learned a little bit about fusion. But by process called nuclear fusion and it is you can give particles in a rocket ten million times as much energy by fusion than by chemical combustion. So you can see you know this already although you don’t realize you know that we you know we’ve joined the fusion age if you want to call it that. Look at the progression in one nine hundred forty four a big bomb. You know that’s what we’re good at making bombs was a ten ton blockbuster that was releasing the energy of ten tons of dynamite and it took. Big B. twenty nine we carry that. OK the next year we exploded or first fission nuclear device atomic bomb if you will. You don’t release the energy of fifteen thousand tons of T.N.T. But we’re just getting started. The first fusion device was one hundred fifty to release the energy of can million tons of T.N.T. and a Russian so I don’t want to few years later fifty seven million tons of T.N.T. in one stinking weapon. Now I worked on a study of fusion propulsion for deep space travel Air Force contracting or just general monthly Onyx one hundred sixty two. And we concluded that indeed you could use fusion to go to the stars nearby stars anyway. And let’s put another fact on the table. Contrary to what you may have heard from a noisy negative is it only takes one near one gee acceleration we can certainly all stand that since we do all the time one year and one G. to get close the speed away and something we want to use happen once the limit is the speed of light. Well that’s true perhaps but it is also true to get close to the speed of light time slows down for things moving that fast. How much depends on how close you get. And we work in that realm of the particles the L.H. C. Large Hadron Collider. I accelerate into ninety nine point nine nine nine nine percent of the speed of light. And so there’s a real world out there. I’m not saying it would be cheap or easy. And look if I had told you about H. bombs in one nine hundred forty four you know left your head off. All right OK so let’s assume. All the perks is real it’s all real aliens are real U.F.O.’s are driven by aliens want to start what’s going on like you know like where are they coming from. What do they want and why have they not. I’m not in Sam White House lawn landing and saying We come in peace I mean it’s a no fly zone. The White House. Bunch true but OK you’re asking me questions if you thought I had been talking to Ilene’s for the last forty years. Thing about it. Oh yes and in my book Flying Saucers and science you have a whole chapter about the why questions I think there’s a list of twenty reasons for coming here and another bunch of reasons for the government not to tell us what it knows. Some obvious reasons for coming here. If you presume that any government has as its primary purpose or should have the protection and the security of its people then one reason for coming here is because we’re nasty to make sure that we you know the quarantine of those. I mean look at our track record what record it is in World War two we killed fifty million people we destroyed seventeen hundred cities since World War two we have exploded two thousand nuclear weapons and he was what he maimed Rochelle and I got sacked. Well and there were a few tests by all the countries that have them. That’s where the rest of the two thousand is. I’m glad we’ve only exploded two and people only two. But another words from an alien viewpoint. What would you say about our society. It’s a primitive society whose major activity is tribal warfare. Look around that the military budget this year is a trillion dollars It is like a very human critique on humans I mean worse. I mean isn’t it possible that conflict and violence are just inherent. The universe and the aliens look at and say well they haven’t destroyed us have they. We would destroy them should first ask questions later that’s the earthling way. Well I mean I’m not saying there are bad guys out there that isn’t the point. You ask why would they come here. Let me give you some reasons first would be to quarantine us to keep us from taking our brand of friendship out there. We know about surprise attacks remember Pearl Harbor Well when we were going to do such opportunist that we want to strike our enemies locally so we make best friends with the people with the power to do it. Say that again. I mean as the opportunist that we are what we want to destroy our best our biggest enemies on earth so we’d make best friends with whoever can give us the guns to do that. Well I suppose we would I don’t know I’m not a politician. Well what I want to contact right. What we’re going to be some to speak for us when we make contact right. Well there isn’t anybody does Chris Pratt Sonata nominate him right now. Well what do you think Triplanetary Chris Prouty does he is he is my nomination everything about Guardians of the galaxy. Well you know I don’t think we’re going to hold an election because there are one point four billion Chinese on the planet and one point two people from India on a planet in a measly three hundred twenty million Americans hear what our government you know you’ve just heard one of the key problems not only who speaks for planet Earth but who negotiates how do we go from a world that is as nasty as ours is to a world that where we think of ourselves as earthlings. I don’t know of any government that wants its people to show their allegiance if you will to the planet instead of that government nationalism is the big game in town. When isn’t it in military budget this year on planet Earth is a mere trillion dollars trillion dollars. Well I mean dogs conflicts locally come down to basically have a war a battle of resources who can have access to things or energy and what not and what have you forgotten that the earth is the densest planet in the solar system. I don’t mean the people but acutely meter of Earth weighs more than a meter of any of the other planets in the solar system you say who cares. Stan although I get some people saying You mean all the planets aren’t the same. No they’re not as a matter of fact. But that means more heavy metals here and heavy metals are rare in the universe we know from studying the spectrum we can measure from stars you know things like rhenium platinum things you never heard of but are very valuable in a very special properties and you know you hear people say heavy is awesome is twice as dense as live. So what does that mean does it make a earth what special Firth’s means to be exploited for resources. Yes Yes You know the hydrogen that’s used for propulsion for a fusion propulsion that’s everywhere is right that’s everywhere and the most common element by far these heavy metals are not everywhere and so we know that is the same from studying the stars so they may be going for that they may be going from things you know we forget. We don’t like to but we’re not the most advanced civilization around how long have we had high technology you know less than two hundred years for sure. So the idea and so we need to get here for resources but should make contact as we all look like animals so that we act like animals I mean look like animals. We’ve got radar systems all over the planet to keep track of intruders. And they guys operating them speak different languages too. Everybody is out to take out anybody strange it comes along I’m had seven stories told me after my lectures of people being at military bases where planes are scrambled to chase you up close and never came back and there were regulations military pilots were told in one nine hundred fifty two I understand it was rescinded afterward but they were told shoot them down if they don’t land when instructed to do so. Now there’s a lot of cartoons in that you know how do you tell an alien to get his tail on the ground. But that was where the rules. So everybody was trying to shoot him down fifty two was the biggest year in history right. The second half of the year was particularly bad. Biggest press conference since the war when sightings over Washington D.C. mind you radar visual airplanes scrambled after them. Maybe they were trying to talk to the president I don’t like it. But what I’m saying is we’re not friendly on this planet and we may be somebodies colony and you know I’d like to suggest maybe we’re a penal colony we dumped a they dumped all the bad boys and girls here and that’s why we’re so nasty to each other and they’re going to a synthetic seeding of something. Well who knows with how mentoring bad behavior and you know I get a kick out of being in Australia where they’re proud of their convict and say that if yours is just comparative behavior say that again because of bad behavior or is it just competitive behaviour because I mean some places are a constant struggle to survive like well sure. Yeah but we also got nasty guys in the arms industry is very big. How many people got killed the other day in Nigeria by evil men if you will never seem so we women do and they kill and they get better sense I guess what I’m saying is I can imagine that one of the rules of the I’ll call it the Galactic Federation and religions agency is to make sure we don’t get surprised by idiots like those characters over on earth so it works OK to interact with a political intergalactic setting. Well yeah in crowd go I think I don’t talk about calling other galaxies Why would I do that. Intergalactic but just a local collector. Well it’s OK within the galaxy. Yeah I mean after all we do have a neighborhood there are two thousand surge within fifty four light years of here and judging by the Kepler data. Most of them have a planet or two or three or four or something like that you know you go out ten times as far that’s a thousand times as many stars so the galaxy is a couple hundred billion stars and it may be and will be generous and say there are only a billion planets. You’ll remember though that some of them are a lot closer to others than we are the nearest started the sun is four point three light years away but they don’t want and sated to return which I think is the base for those who came and abducted Betty and learning hell they’re only thirty nine point three light years away which is just down the street but from each other those two sun like stars are only an eighth of a light year apart they’re thirty times closer to each other than the Sun is to the nearest star in other words we’re out in the boonies. These guys got next door neighbors and the implications of that are several one of them is the other stars visible all day long. It would be rather interesting. We’re so close they those are so close to each other that they could directly infer the existence of biological life. Just play studying the planets that they can see. And wouldn’t it be a greater incentive to have interstellar travel when you’ve got a next door neighbor. I would think so. Is there any piece of evidence that you can send our viewers to you know as soon as they get off of this pod cast a thing on You Tube any Web site out there that you just hold up as you know beyond criticism. Well I talk about five large scale scientific studies. You go to my book can’t see without buying or getting the version or whatever it’s called the book version of flying saucers and science. But go to my website trippled Stanton Friedman dot com It lists all kinds of sources of information and you know if you want to make it easy tell me all about Venus. Ten words or less. That’s not how the world operates. You know you don’t learn brain surgery in two weeks. Well it takes a while. OK well if let’s say from your history and this kind of research that there’s an opportunity to try to develop a fusion driven propulsion device let’s say for Space X. but it required going silent all this stuff would you take it. Probably although we’re talking huge bucks here to give me an example people think about colleges doing research you know publish or perish or you know for professors and eight grad students that’s a big program way back in one nine hundred fifty eight when I was that we were also a lad I worked for General Electric aircraft nuclear propulsion department and we employed thirty five hundred people have been hundred of whom were engineers and scientists. It’s that year in one hundred fifty eight we spent one hundred million dollars which was a lot of money in one nine hundred fifty eight I mean I would think it was a lot of money now but many people in other words if you want to go you got to spend the day out and there are huge. The stealth aircraft cost ten billion dollars to develop so well that’s kind of cheap. Yeah that’s right. Well I was just saying that’s like get from zero to one right. Well these programs cost lots of money because you involve lots of people lots of new technologies and that that’s the way the world works. You know it they don’t come cheap. And what the program by today’s dollars they say cost the Apollo program twenty billion or something like that and that was just to get it over to the moon. So you need a commitment. In other words the nuclear navy is a good illustration of that as opposed to NASA which doesn’t seem to have any leadership telling where we should go or why we should go there. Admiral Rickover Hyman Rickover an American hero for it out we should use nuclear energy for submarines. Now a lot of people don’t realize despite all the talk about the danger of German submarines U. boats you know how many movies and on sort of the submarines the German submarines and the American ones who could only stay underwater for about a day. Why because you need here for the diesels. People as you can see but the diesels OK A nuclear submarine on the other hand can go around the world underwater they take periscope leave when they go by why periscope look at the island in that set. But not only have we. Develop nuclear submarines in many countries have them. We also have nuclear powered aircraft carriers and the advantage of nuclear power is they can operate for only eight to eighteen years without refueling. Eighteen years and that changes everything in an ocean battle if you don’t worry about where the gas station is and you know it took clever work and a lot of time and money. You know I really appreciate what they did. So I work a little just think practically for a minute so we we have the initial wants a conventional way to escape the atmosphere and then we have our either sampled or docked at the International Space Station. The fusion and general decision or the nuclear drive that will go for deep space in the stars. Is that OK that we could do that or well we could put up a base on the moon and take off from there take off from there. OK so if you what was the scale in your mind of the cost if it’s twenty billion to go to the moon to develop the process would it be just that over again. Oh no I think several many times that it’s a much bigger project. You know it’s like it used to be a big computer assists something stick in your pocket. The costs aren’t the same. So it was still here. Well if we build this where do we go. Well we might try going to any one of several stars that are close relatively close less than ten light years away. But I think we might want to do some more reconnoitering space find out a lot of studies yet to do about what happens on these planets that we’ve discovered. You know we’re just at the beginning stage. We can tell you there’s three planets around that star and one is bigger than Jupiter one smaller than Jupiter and it’s got an interesting a sphere. But why not instead use our smarts to find out where the aliens are by trying to find out more about them. Well isn’t that the job of the astronomers. No they don’t really know about any of the ones like the ones discovering the space signals and when. Well they’re listening for signals from deep space based on the assumption that aliens are using radio technology the way ours was. That’s pretty silly you know. You know how long will the first radio want distant radio signal was received. One nine hundred one and you tell me nobody’s got a better system than that I mean I don’t use a slide rule anymore. Maybe some people too but I can subscribe to you know it’s pod casts or work out just fine. Well what I’m saying is we’re not ready to be earthlings yet and I don’t think any real goal should go for it that doesn’t represent the planet I mean even the United Nations and no individual cities to join is going to be a country. So if you’ve got a local galactic neighbourhood before you can join you got to be a prominent and we don’t have a unified planet hasa for a nice way of saying. Earlier you mentioned two people who have been abducted what were their names again Betty and Barney Hill it’s like in one nine hundred sixty one in New Hampshire. Well places and they were driving along and a saucer came along and they stopped when there was beans in the road late at night. There are several books about this the most recent is captured that experience but I’m Kathleen Martin who’s Bettys me. And I’m the second officer. He did most of the work that way. Catalina actually spoke to a friend of mine when I was in college. She’s a bunch of relatives up in New Hampshire and yet they know her and they’ve chit chatted and yeah I mean I think Kathleen’s big raise on the terror these days and I write what who cares. Her reason for B.N. these days is that she actually goes around kind of debunking the debunkers people that they’re mischaracterized Betty and Barney Hill story and say oh it was a foggy night they couldn’t possibly see an X. Y. and Z. still say no there is actually some serious clouds and it was like the moon was in this position and that would not have obscured your vision of you know all the things I are claiming she just gave a talk about the whole case of the Roswell the annual Roswell U.F.O. Festival on this just last week and we’ve written a couple of books together captured is one when you get a kick out of his science was wrong. That’s hard to believe as a title and it wasn’t ours. It happens now and then is equipment. Yeah we recently wanted it to be. It’s impossible isn’t it. But the publisher changed the title maybe was right maybe not. Kathleen and I each did seven chapters and it’s a question of evidence. She’s very evidence oriented and not just because Betty and Veronica are aunt and uncle but she’s active in fun mutual your phone network and the experiencer groups in the past it was very difficult for people to talk about abductions because of her ridicule which is and I make in the subject because the noisy negativism been very successful at creating this aura of idiocy instead of not enough. When I check my audiences my lecture audiences after my lecture and I come on very strong ask in the question and answer period and I have never had guts enough to do it at the beginning to say the truth. How many people here believe they’ve seen what I would consider to be a flying saucer and I prefer the term flying saucer because all flying saucer U F O’s and very few U.F.O.’s are flying saucers. You know all great grandfathers are men but not all men are great grandfather. Sure. And so when I ask that question the hands go up. But I’ll make a joke we didn’t let the CIA and it’s OK and I’m not asking your name to just kind of point and count things. Well you know we don’t talk when we show the N.S.A. documents we’re listening. They’re probably recording all of us now but you know snaking through a subscription i Tunes as much as they want. Yeah. The kicker here is that when I asked that question the hands go up reluctantly and I point out one two three four five or move around when I get to the far end of the hall the hands go up rapidly. Everybody surprise each thought we was the only one there. Typically it’s ten percent of the audience believe they’ve seen one that’s a lot of people but then I ask how many of you reported were true so ninety percent of the hands go down. When I ask a further question I’ll say how many of you who are left were in the military at the time and then I ask you want to tell us about it. Got some great responses to that question in front of Thirteen hundred people in Texas one guys as I can. They told me not to say anything so that another guy says they took my pictures. Long pause and I say well I’m not going to ask your name you don’t need to stand up but I’m sure the audience would like to hear the rest of that story. I mean the guy’s admitted he had a sighting he was in the military at the time and there were pictures and people clapped and so he remained seated. I didn’t ask his name. Something in my microphone and he told us he was piloting an airplane for the Air Force in the over the Pacific and they get a call from plane twenty miles ahead of them. Radio saucer heading your way. They had gun cameras they are pictures they call the base to which they were flying because the crew doesn’t handle the film or anything that’s intelligence stuff. When they landed the film got taken and they got debriefed and told never to say anything and I’ll guarantee you at least ninety eight percent of the audience to believe that guy because he came across so well he hadn’t asked for the attention and all I asked him to stick his neck out if you will do the what does the funny thing is that like so much of so much of the evidence relies on like the secrecy in the system. Right. But we know that’s not true. Talk about five large scale scientific studies at anybody. All right well I’m just saying how much how much of your job do you find yourself collecting primary sources versus let’s just say deep ongoing naysayers. Mostly present data from primary sources. OK. Whenever I have to take on like I said I only had eleven hecklers at my lectures but I do radio stuff and radio and television. Kasia Lee There’s an encounter a close encounter if you will. I’ve done formal debates not only with says trash talk with James one guy former Air Force pilot a strong armor down in Arizona and we didn’t take a vote after that. I debated at the Oxford University debating society and my side got sixty percent of the vote. Well you know that’s the way life is. I understand this is the arguments we so much of let’s say develop person saying well if God didn’t create this Who did you know like if they’re keeping this secret what are they hiding from us. Right. Well there’s no question that in the case of the documents that I mentioned they’re hiding from us that they have all this information and haven’t told us what’s underneath the blackout or the white out there or there are other lives that really offended me is what really drew my interest in this subject. Read a bunch of books. That’s that’s kind of nice but intriguing. Then at the University of California Berkeley library I found a copy of a large a study done for the Air Force Project Blue Book Special Report Number fourteen. And I was curious because none of the books that I had read and read at least ten even mentioned it. And secondly it was chock full of data more than two hundred charts tables graphs and maps I was and data Hammon but the guy who was a government documents you can’t copyright it so God put it out. And it included the press release this in one hundred fifty five lines you forgot secretary number or was again fourteen Project Blue Book special report number four. OK. There were eight. Well there were thirteen other reports and they never talk about thirteen so it would. I’m not joking it’s true. Anyway here’s a second to the Air Force in the press release which got worldwide distribution saying that on the basis of this study we believe that no objects such as those properly described as flying saucers have over flown the United States. Even the unknown three percent could have been explained as conventional phenomena or illusions of more complete. They had been available. Well it takes care of that. Now the trouble is I have the report and I’m a data hound. What’s he saying the facts are that in that study thirty two hundred in one cases that’s a lot of sightings and then the final report evaluation was done only by four scientists at the Patel Memorial Institute a major research outfit whose connection with the program was classified Incidentally I found out other ways. Anyway other ways of the thirty two hundred and one sightings twenty one and a half percent couldn’t be explained not three percent that’s not around often after all and there was a separate category. Insufficient information. So a lot again with more complete observational data had been available. There wasn’t enough observational data. It was not listed as an unknown The only ones who are interested it isn’t a government kept a lid on this for so long I mean in all these years since Ross will there’s never been a single guy with no family and nothing to lose who just says screw it here it is the truth they’re here they’re green there been loads and loads of such people who have spoken out. A guy named Chase Brandon worked for the CIA He was in the the archives call it the CIA lie for saying it I guess. And he found a box in which there’s all kinds of stuff about U.F.O.’s including about Roswell and aliens and he got some press coverage about that. He didn’t take any copies with them you know. That’s an indictment of facts to say the least. Been a bunch of other guys. Many of the witnesses on were as well as the man that got me started. Major Jesse Marcel was the intelligence officer for the most elite military group in the world the five o nine there the group at Roswell and I say mostly because they are the only ones in the world who have atomic bombs they drop. The bombs in Japan. And two more in Operation Cross Roads and so forth so nobody else was in their situation of having nuclear weapons so they had handpicked officers handpicked man and so forth. Jesse Marcel told me he and I find this later on he was the first one on the site of the Roswell crash really near Corona but that’s a separate from Roswell was the big city Coroneos tiny little burg and Razzo was where the military base was where he was based. Now that’s pretty special guy to be the intelligence officer for the only atomic bombing group in the world and it been loads of other people who have Barry Goldwater general Goldwater he said he was convinced that these things are real. He tried to get access to the data and Courtenay said don’t ever ask again. Goldwater was a flying general I mean he was in the reserve but he flew airplanes and besides being a senator for most of us that you’re sharing it sounds like this is the kind of thing that can be sort of open source for an investigation right. It has a sort of like community as they just dump any collections of information data personal anecdotes they have for just the online community to like really takes through it seems like an opportunity to well but the online community doesn’t have any of these right. Well look they don’t have access. That’s the first thing of course. But secondly people keep telling me they saw it on You Tube where they saw it on Reddit on the Internet that makes it true doesn’t know it doesn’t look like critical as anybody about the crap that gets published. Frankly written an article about phony stories from the believers as well such than unbelievers. I mean I’m very critical of the. Bonkers I do bunk the bunkers as you pointed out but there are plenty of them. If you’re not a deep bunker bunker. A person I have just a couple questions left. First are you a fan of The X. Files. I watched it Cajun way it wasn’t a big fan of expand but it’s going to be on again isn’t it shortly. There is and there are a few there’s a new season coming. We have we do have a friend who she is convinced that he is remaking the show because he knows something and wants to share. Not sure but that’s or take. Hey people make shows to make money you don’t play it I mean is there any other. Yes but the ones that really make money and the ones with an ounce of truth and a message behind it. Oh that sounds good. How should how should a earth society or even just American society prepare for siting or meeting or encounter as a collective or individually. Well I think as a collective I mean let’s face it we are not ready to put aside our differences. Who speaks for the planet. I would love to see the queen in the pope one of the oddest couples you can claim the Pope is an odd couple. Sounds like well restaurant. There was a television show The Odd Couple you know but of course if they were to announce that the evidence is overwhelming the planets being visited and there will be international congress conferences dealing with the psychological the economical the political ramifications of this new phase of our history. I think that would be the way to do it I don’t want the government to release all its technical data. There’s a national security problem here. Should the United States put out anything it’s learned from saucer wreckage and it’s not only wreckage but monitoring of the flight schools. Post something to show United States put out what it knows if the Russians and Chinese don’t put out what they know that would be pretty silly wouldn’t it. I mean making such an announcement doesn’t automatically make everybody buddy buddy you does raise an interesting point there. I’m sure you’ve got to have some idea what kind of government conspiracies have you identified in foreign countries. Well if you look at England they released a whole bunch of data but it turns out they didn’t release the top secret data and this Brazil was done more about with the military and the U.F.O. groups working together. Chile there was a cooperative effort several other countries are moving in that direction. But let’s face it who’s got the biggest weapons on the block the United States and the Soviet Union and China. You know we’re having a print little problem here with trying to keep other countries from getting nuclear weapons right now. We’re having a battle with Iran our way you know Secretary of State Kerry is negotiating some kind of an agreement will take off the limits on your trade if you give up on making enriched uranium all kinds of things like that are in the works but the world is a shaky state you know. From what I hear the economy or China’s in lousy shape right now. Yeah they just were just like three billion in the stock market. Well yeah. And they’re not the only ones. Look I live in Canada and we’ve taken quite a hit because the price of oil has come down and the rest of us not they’re not in good shape at all because also they were dependent on oil for a large part of their income so the world hasn’t learned how we feed our kids that isn’t important what’s important is to have more guns more planes were ships What is with this. This correlation between weapons and and usajobs. Well I don’t know if there isn’t one except that all the good equipment for monitoring belongs to the government I don’t have my own radar set that I was spy satellite I don’t have instrumentation on board a high performance aircraft ready to chase them and make measurements of their girl like from magnetic signature their electronic signature all this kind of stuff that’s all on by the government. So you know everybody’s got an air defense commander. Now it’s Space Defense Command to monitor the skies to keep out the intruders to make sure there’s no Pearl Harbor on our territory you know. Well that’s you from ism but yeah I remember Pearl Harbor Day believe it or not it wasn’t a fun story. And you know part of the problem here is and that’s why the book science was wrong. But just to give you a strange example on November twenty ninth one nine hundred forty one was the Army Navy game football game that year in the program for the game. It had a picture of the U.S.S. Arizona this huge powerful battleship. And in the text it said nobody had sunk a battleship from the sky eight Days Later was Pearl Harbor Day and Arizona went to the bottom of eleven hundred people on board. We were kind of short sighted the Japanese know you could sink a ship from the sky. So it’s a crazy business of trying to sort out what should you spend them you know feeding kids educating younger people cetera versus defending those against the terrible things that might happen if we’re not defended. You know we haven’t done a good job of sorting out that question as far as I can tell what the first step the right way from education. OK Well you know there’s plenty of data that can be put out and frankly one of the problems is the darn press isn’t doing its job and you know a lot of people don’t realize that within two weeks of Pearl Harbor Day United States set up a central office things you couldn’t talk about in the press and one of them later on in place the word uranium couldn’t be mentioned. Another strange example was the japanese fuko balloons a few Geo these were launched off the west coast and I carried moms on board these bones that were supposed to land and cause fires and kill people and I wanted sort of stuff you couldn’t talk in the press about whether any of those landed or didn’t land or hurt anybody or didn’t hurt anybody. We don’t want to Japanese to know what’s going on. But there’s been a lot of other censorship and this information has always been an important part of warfare. You know weather was a Trojan horse as a silly example maybe but we fooled Hitler. The allies made a conscious effort to convince Hitler that when the raid on Europe came to free the embattled Europe that it was going to come not words that come at Normandy but I Kallis and Hitler got fooled. That mean they put funny papers in the uniform. Of a guy who had died and dropped him off Spain knowing that the Germans would get the body and place papers and stuff like that. You know weird stuff but the important thing is when the generals say and after we did land at Normandy the general said send in the reserves and it was said you know they’re going to land over there not over here. We don’t want to be fooled by them. And they waited so long that it was too late. You know but so does information has always been a part of things and depending on who you look good example at The Washington Post said little over two years ago that the military intelligence budget of the United States was that previous year fifty two point six billion dollars for a military intelligence that’s N.S.A. CIA and our own National Reconnaissance Office fifty two billion dollars is so wanted to so with you would you be arguing that basically keep an open mind secrets are out there and just don’t be afraid of what you might see in front of you. Well yeah that’s certainly part of the story but the other thing is to think of take a new view of the cosmos of the supply of electricity. Last week we used to think not many years ago that well let’s face it there’s only one solar system and we have the only planet in the solar system that’s got water on it and so we’re at work came to the Hill. She’s the ultimate in civilization. And as soon as she starts saying as we now do that probably in our galaxy a few billion planets that changes everything doesn’t it about how important we are. Because because the Earth is four billion years old Sol. It’s not unlikely that anybody got started before we did their technological kick a few will it’s certain that that’s the case. So we had fun like Edward Snowden come out there and blow the lid off a prism which is pretty big government program about spying. When are we going to get someone to do the same thing for all of the U.F.O. documents that have been redacted how to hack what I know I know you know that’s why I believe that if we had a Woodward and Bernstein pitch right in. They could do it in six months because they could get enough people to talk. But doesn’t because seem like I mean I mean I just I just I just have to point point this out for the for our audience if if there were someone working in the N.S.A. and he was born any time after Let’s just say nine hundred seventy five you know he’s lived in an age where aliens are cool but totally not totally not not accepted all the time and then he finds that he wouldn’t he immediately goes screaming out just like Edward Snowden to like the first person who would listen and say Dude I’ve got it I’ve got it this is worth going to jail for the aliens are real. I will be vindicated. Look there are a lot of people in that position. None of them have done that. So apparently the pressures are pretty strong and maybe the government feels maybe it knows a terrible secret that the aliens are going to destroy the planet in ten years and all the aliens are coming the aliens are coming to the right what was that thing about the Russians or British or time but that was true when we standing on which center you’re talking about. Well but you know I don’t know how people would or could or might be think of all kinds of examples. The point here is how they have to be. And like I say when I can. This is all five hundred fifty six top secret documents about U F O’s where you can read one sentence for page. There’s no question there’s a cover up. There’s something happening. We just we just want to know which. Yes. You know if the New York Times would offer. Don’t use somebodies name and listen to reports. Maybe that would change anything or The Washington Post but the press has shown no inclination. Well I’ll put the message out. Comcast dot com What we have I don’t think anybody is personal takes or visions of the sky or photographs of might have. We’re very excited to spread any new the word of possible. OK well we can always write me or write new fun or you know crippled Stanton Friedman that two absolutely. We’re all more a little past an hour. I mean of last words for the audience. And I keep your eye on the sky and don’t be fooled by the nasty noisy negative this don’t know about facts they know about fiction. Fantastic thank you so much Dan. My pleasure. We will be back again when we’re ready to publish and until next time. OK. OK Thank you ma’am. Who. The. Only here that the.
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