2016-08-11

undergirlsden:

cheshireinthemiddle:

undergirlsden:

cheshireinthemiddle:

undergirlsden:

cheshireinthemiddle:

Feminist: "Violence is a serious crime. We need to protect women.“

Egalitarian: “Violence is a serious crime. We need to protect everyone.”



Feminist: “Men don’t need abuse shelters. Close them down!”

Egalitarian: “Abuse shelters should be open to whoever needs them.”



Feminist: “Men are dangerous.”

Egalitarian: “Women are just as capable of being dangerous as men.”



Feminist: “Women are scared to walk home at night. Men aren’t!”

Egalitarian: "Men are more likely to be attacked, but everyone deserves equal protection. Fear is not gendered.“



Feminist: Men who say ‘not all men’ are the problem.

Egalitarian: “People who grossly generalize an entire group of people’s behavior based on how they were born are the problem.”



Feminist:“Kill all men!”

Egalitarian: “Wishing the genocide of an entire group of people is not okay.”



Feminist: "This is a women’s issue!“

Egalitarian: ”It is a human issue.“



Feminist: “Shut up. You’re probably a cis white male!”

Egalitarian: “It shouldn’t matter what gender, race or sexual orientation they are. Their opinion matters just as much as yours.”



Feminist: “You can’t be in favor of equality without calling yourself a feminist.”

Egalitarian: “Well…”

Yo, I’m pretty sure some of these sentences only belong to feminists that are extremists and are just as bad as the fedoras we see out there, but also, men are more likely to be attacked at night? I need this one explained to me and a shitton of other women victims of assault, usually of sexual nature or more. Feminism comes from the fact that there is an imbalance in the world that puts men in a position of power and bigger independence. That is why it is not named ‘equalism ’ or some other crap. The point of feminism is to correct this imbalance to achieve true equality. This post basically ignores the fact that this imbalance exists, so no, you’re not really preaching for equality there.

See, you tried to claim that not all feminists are like that, while you have displayed that you are like that.

First off, you reffered to men or mens rights activists as fedoras. You made an attempt to insult them out of nowhere when such a nickname was not made on this posts for feminists. Second, you got mad that a truth that didnt put women as the victim came up. Yes, men are much more likely to be murdered than women. Men are much more likey to be assaulted. So when feminists such as yourself gender being scared at night, or at all, you ignore key statistics that dont make women out as the sole or main victim. This includes stats on rape, sexual, domestic violence, which arent as one sided as feminists (again, such as yourself) like to preach.

Modern feminism focuses on minor issues or fabricated issues, false and poorly made studies, and dear tactics. Modern feminism often suppirts inequalities as long as it favors women such as gendered rape definitions, exclusive funding to female only rape and abuse shlters, gendering body image, descrimination, and sexism itself.

You cant call them extremists if they arent in the extreme. Feminists like this are quite common within he movement, and are simply gaining more power and influence as their fellow members ignore them.

First of all I am calling them extremists because they are, there’s extremists in every movement. Second of all fedoras is a slang term and I did not mean to refer to men’s rights activists, but the ones In The movement who are also extremists and thus ridiculous. Third of all I am slightly preoccupied with your post but not mad, and I’d like to see at what point of my writing you assumed I was, considering I just basically laid down a counter argument, and it seems to me you’re the one getting mad for even trying to differ in opinion from you. I don’t disagree that certain self proclaimed feminists, especially on this website are a mess. But I also disagree with you because I believe there is still an imbalance, and I would really like to see the statistics that say men are more likely to be attacked at night, or others of the sort. I am not about to say men aren’t victims of sexual assault too and bullying and tons of other shit and it’s not a competition to who suffers more, but the statistics are not fabricated facts. These are things me and thousands of other women like me live through. That we are trying to fight.

I really wish I could see what kind of world you live in.

No one said that there arent extremists in most movements. The difference is that misandrists in feminism are not extremists. They are pretty common, accepted, and get away with alot. It means that these people can say things about men and do hings to them that would never fly when said about or done to women. Like idk…Amy Schumer admitting to raping a guy with confidence in front of a crowd of feminists, and a wall of feminists not screaming rape culture like they would if it were a male celebrity. Or maybe Valerie Solonas wishing for the genocide of men being condemned as sexism instead of her books being used in womens and feminist studies classes (#killallmen anyone?). While the person’s actions maybe extreme (like solonas'murder attempt), there is too much acceptance of inequality and misandry in the feminist movement.

As someone who tried to use a derogatory term towards males when none were used against feminists, it seems that you were clearly the mad one here. If it isnt acceptable to do the same to feminists, referencing colored hair, glasses, and/or jokes about weight, it shouldnt be acceptable to refer to people who care about men as fedoras, neckbeards, or mouthbreathers.

The assumption that you were lumped in withother feminists came from your response. Upon hearing that issues men face getting ignored and feminists needlessly gendering issues, you seemed particularly irritated upon hearing that men were more likely to be attacked or killed (at night or whenever). You also went to try and divert the topic to one that you thought had an overwhelmingly female victim rate (which was closer to gender neutral). This too is a result of feminism and misandry overlapping. On the topic of issues on gender, it is no secret that feminism typically points out the female and makes it all about them, even on subjects where they are not the majority victim. This results in gendered solutions which only help female victims. It also makes male victims have a tougher time being taken seriously.

Men have been the overwhelming majority of murder, attempted murder, and assault from at least when my dad was born http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092 to now https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expandhomicidemain . Men consistanly make up roughly 3/4th of all homicides consistantly over the last 40 years. Whether it is at night is irrelavebt, and i doubt you will find too many studies based on time of day, however crimes do tend to increase at night, so in the case of who should be more scared for their life: men should be. This isnt to say that everyone doesnt deserve to be cautious, but a huge feminist point that gets repeated is how a woman is scared of going out at night in fear of being murdered and how men dont walk around with that fear. Well if you want to make it gendered (which people shouldnt but will), it is men whose life is in more danger.

It isnt just that, but many crimes that are gender neutral or have more male victims. They are needlessly gendered, typically by feminists. Feminism is also responsible for many problems at the root as well. Due to the feminist deluth method, male victims of assault or domestic violence are drastically less likely call the police or seek help since they are more likely to be arrested than the assaulter is. Male victims of rape barely get taken seriously since the very recent change in definition of rape to include women, which had much opposition from feminists. In fact, as stated above, other countries succumb to their will and kept crimes like rape gendered.

Many of the statistics are false. A great example is Mary Koss, a feminist professor who has made some very popular gender studies. This woman does not believe women can rape or assault, and has a very loose definition of rape. If both people are drunk, she claims the man is the rapist. If the guy re a promise about a long term relationship or marriage, she counts it as rape. If the woman admits to consenting, she will still count it as rape. With her biases, she has no business making a study in gender and it should not be repeated by the president or used on other studies. Yet because the focus is women, people are eager to believe it. A popular and widely used study can most certainly be wrong and your personal experiences do not change that.

You keep talking about power imbalances, but it seems that women have had a lot of weight on their side too. With the law often overwhelmingly on their side in first world countries, and let us not forget the draft (the whole stupid thing with women and the white feather), circumcision, parental rights, and things of the like.

I live in the world where everyone has their own problems, but the same problem is apparently more important when it happens to women. I live in the world where a movement that claims gender equality can overwhelmingly oppose said equality when it benefits someone else. I live in a world where issues that are deemed solved or closed to handled for women havent even been touched for men. I live in a world where honestly caring about and researching what women and men go through, instead of just the former, gets me labeled ignorant or a misogynist. I live in a world where being critical of the bad in feminism is a rarity within the movement and that is sad.

and yet it seems to me like you are not really researching what women go through, or at least not enough. So what if there are a few women who exploit the movement. Women exploit feminism to justify themselves, men exploit feminism to control women, men’s right activists exploit feminism to rant on tumblr like you’re doing now. It doesn’t mean that is what feminism stands for. People like the ones you quoted are not what feminism stands for, and because there are a few people who follow them and believe feminism means misandry does not mean that they are the main core of feminism.

The papers you provided don’t really hold man. The first is just an instance of a decade in the US only, and i’d like to point out this part of it.

Although the overall risk of homicide for women was substantially lower
than that of men (rate ratio [RR] = 0.27), their risk of being killed by
a spouse or intimate acquaintance was higher (RR = 1.23). In contrast
to men, the killing of a woman by a stranger was rare (RR = 0.18). More
than twice as many women were shot and killed by their husband or
intimate acquaintance

the data goes overwhelmingly in favour of men, but women seem to have to deal with the more ‘personal’ cases of murder. Not to mention, women are not afraid to go out at night because of murder. our main fear is sexual assault, and yes, we do go out less exactly because we know how society works towards us. Women adapt: we have adapted for centuries to being the underdogs, so we know the risks and we prevent them, but that doesn’t mean that this handicap of ours is right. Also let me point this part here

Although women comprise more than half the U.S. population, they
committed only 14.7% of the homicides noted during the study interval.

Now at night time we have the most criminal activity, especially in a time of gangs. Women would not be part of that shit for the most. So if you happened to be a random stranger walking down a road, gender aside, you might get murdered for bumping into a gang/criminal. But men are more likely to be out, and more likely to actually have ties with the gang/criminals. Most of these homicides seem to be orchestrated by men for men.

As for the second paper. Same shit, except the murders seem to be more personal now that it’s not gang wars anymore. Only 44% of the offenders are unknown, 12% are strangers, the rest is either family or relations, so 50% of the murders are less tied to criminal activity and more tied to personal motive. Now look at these stats.

also

so even if 77% of the murders were of men, they seemed to still be carried out by men. Not only that but women, in 2010, in a relationship as close as your wife or boyfriend, are still getting the short end of the stick.

And that is not even considering the fact that all these studies are carried exclusively in the US, and do not include other first world countries, such as Canada, Europe, Italy (where I’m originary from and where women get raped and murdered daily for sexual or intimate, more than criminal reasons) , and that is not considering the fact that things in third world countries are even worse, and that feminism is meant for them too.

So yeah men risk getting murdered more. But men cause murder more. We are taking 90% in the US here. It seems like crime, in the US, is definitely not gender neutral

Male victim of rapes are sad, i will give you that. They are unable to be acknowledged, but is that really the fault of feminism? This Amy Schumer and Valerie Solonas seem like terrible people. Mary Koss seems misguided in some issues. So these three women stand out for you as a banner of feminism? A lot of feminist ideology instead takes count of the issue with men and male rape. A whole branch of feminism explores the culture of toxic masculinity and how this makes men who are victims of rape unable to reach out or get help, men who are effeminate yet not gay unable to be themselves, men having emotional repression because of their culture, so long and so forth. There are many feminist men who embrace feminism because of this reason. Men are not excluded in feminism, but the truth is that rape victims, because of our culture, tend being majorly female. Which does not mean that men arent worthy of help or compassion. It just means women need it a lot more.

I’m just interested in how you claim laws are pro women when here in italy its hard to even get an abortion, and im pretty sure pro lifers are swarming clinics in the US with protest signs. Not to mention how recently there have been so many cases of rapes by men where the rapist got away with barely a sentence (check us news).

So let me give you an example of what women go through. We cannot be sexually free because of religions/society/fear of being murdered by the significant other/getting pregnant and being unable to stop the pregnancy. We cannot go outside without being catcalled or worse if we are wearing anything revealing. In most cases everyone has an opinion on how we look like and how ‘fuckable we are’, even other women, because aside from rare cases being treated like simply like another human being seems like a waste of time. We see many of us get raped daily and then get blamed for it, because we were asking for it. We often find ridiculous obstacles in pursuing careers because people don’t take us seriously as women. When we have a baby, we’re done for, in terms of pursuing a career/finding a love partner again, but society still expects us to, because, no big deal, no huge task but we are supposed to carry on the future of our species. We get made ridiculously fun of and have to pay expensive amounts to maintain perfectly normal bodily functions that happen to us in a cycle, and we get called unreliable on them, even though men’s testosterone cycles are a thing too, affecting their mood. The health system still has a bias towards us coming from centuries of putting women aside, and many clinics are often unprepared to treat women as well as men. We are told since we are born to keep our head down and let men do things that matter, let men do things for us, while we just need to be pretty for them and do woman things, and we would be bad at doing those men things anyways (and that hurts both genders), even if often its not true and the reason we are bad at them is because we are crushed by everyone thinking we’re bad. I can go on man.

Men have obstacles too, exceptions, problems, but not to this rate. Not systemically. They are worthy of compassion, as everyone is, but as things stand now, in the world, women need it more, until this imbalance ends.

Also, I already got anon hate since I wrote to you, in a pretty polite manner, (yeah you can call me out on using fedora but if you had even bothered reading the context of what i wrote you’d have understood that it was not directed to you nor to anyone that wasn’t an abstract caricature).

So I think I’m pretty done here. I’m not about to dismantle another essay of pretty vague things and then get hated on by someone that didn’t even bother reading what i wrote. Just get out of the house, get some air, make female friends maybe and learn about their life? Generally, just educate yourself dude, logic doesn’t work if it’s backed up by ignorance.

Ciao

Sigh…

And what proof do you have that either one of us didnt research gender issues of women?

Through working in homeless shelters, soup kitchens, drug abuse centers, and mental health centers, both people on this blog have personal experience with people in need. To top it off, Jackson’s college forced him to write a scientific paper every week, requiring hin to critically assess various studies. It is surprising how many accepted studies are flawed. However both of us know better than to gender something based purely on popular opinion.

Now between men and women, women get an overwhelming majority of help. Most homeless people are men, yet homeless shelters take in more women by choice (by excluding men). Soup kitchens and food banks often give women food first. The US, Canada, the UK, India, ect only funds rape and abuse shelters for women. Many first world governments only provide funds for studies on womens health. No one is saying that women dnt go through things. The fact is that everyone knows. Unfortunately, despite almost all if these being gender neutral, or even having men as the majority victim, we treat them like womens issues. We as a society favor the health and well being of women. This also means tgat while statistics on men get questioned automatically and need mountians of proof just for credibility, any and all statistics on women get believed. As Jackson stated before, a huge example is freaking Mary Koss. She is biased agant men and shouldnt be making gender studies. But she does and peopl believe her. Studies with tiny sample sizes, unclear standards of the subject in question, poor standard deviations, ect. are all common in feminist studies. They get believed immedietly. People dont really care to critically assess them. This is why people are so against feminist statistics. Now you said that the links above arent good, however they are FBI statistics. They are more credible than what you offered.

Now before i continue. I am sure he said it before, but feminism is judged by its actions, not the definition that it gave itself. If modern feminism has made misandry popular, that is part of feminism. Republicans used to be synonymous with liberals. Republicans were anti slavery and the political group most likely to work n racism, while demovrats worked to keep things the same. Modern republicans are now synonymous with conservatives while democrats are seen as liberal. They did a big change over time. You will notice that democrats arent saying that other democrats dont represent their political party because they are anti racism. Groups change with the actions of their members, and feminism is no exception. #killallmen has literally millions of social nedia hits. If you look it up even in the tumblr search bar, it will offer a related search in feminism. Toxic masculinity, rape culture, #endfathersday, ect. These are common in the movement and it is sad. Double standards on gender roles, attavks on gender completely, these are seen all the time in your movement. It isnt a rarity.

Now you are making HUGE generalizations about women, specifically speaking for them. Guess what? Woman here. I do not get catcalled every time i go outside like you claim i do. I do not fear getting sexually assaulted at night (it is called being cautious), and i most certainly do not think the government is against me. Most first world governments actually cater to women. What you spouted were fear tactics, which are common in feminism. You claimed that italy makes it hard to get an abortion like some sort of oppression olympics. You dont want to start. In 2015, roughly half of the worlds population lived in countries with gendered rape laws. Laws that specifically excluded female rapists and male rape victims. The US was like that until recently. Northern Ireland, th UK, India, Isreal,
Malaysia, Scotland, ect. Women who sexually assault men or force them into sex arent considered rapists and actually receive significantly less sentencing, if any at all for tge crime of rape. It is because of this and feminist action that men have such trouble getting taken seriously. It also vastly skews statistics on the subject, as women tend not to get counted as assaulters. In fact, the US government until recenty only counted females who forced sex on men as “made to penetrate”, not rape. If this were the case for women, i would totally fight against it.

Now you tried to downplay murders of men by saying most murderers are men. Let me ask you, since most black people are killed by other black people(at a higher rate than men) , does that lessen the problem? Does that make the deaths of black people less important than the deaths of other races? You cant pull that card. The subject was who is scared of being murdered at night. Or at least who deserves to be. Men are much mire likely to be murdered, roughly 3 times as much as women. No crime takes away as much or is as bad as straight out murdering someone. You can recover from rape, a torn limb, even war, but you cannot recover from being murdered. It is game over. And men are significantly more likely to be murdered. So making it gendered towards women is silly and insulting. Everyone is allowed to be cautious at night, but making it all about women is stupid and greedy.

You still dont get the whole problem with feminism. It isnt that people like Valerie Solonas and Mary Koss exist abd have their opinions, it is tht they are so readily accepted in the movemet. Mary Koss’ biased study has been repeated by the UN and the president. This clearly sexist woman gets to be a pillar in feminism. This woman gets to influence millions of people through her biased studies and not to mention the deluth method which is readily used in many states. THAT would be feminism. She is a feminist who made feminist studies, that were blindly accepted by feminists, made popular, and used by politicians. One bad feminist is nothing. Millions of feminists supporting the idea of bad feminists is the problem. They have the power to harm men on a wide scale. Gendered Abuse shelters, rape laws, primary aggressor clauses, all spearheaded by feminism and all are inequality. These are serious issues. These are not some small part of feminism. It is huge and isnt being fought against by supposed good feminists. If it were and good feminists were supposedly outnumbering the bad, thse would have been fixed by the movement fast.

You fail to see that most of what you consider womens issues are frequently experienced by men. Feminists such as yourself are so quick to try and claim that the same problems men go through isnt systemic, yet you are shown examoles contantly. You want so bad to be the victim that you ignore what other people go through.

I really hope your concept of equality changes someday and you actually make a real attenpt to see both sides insread of just the one you belong to.

Sorry for the long post. If i wasbt on mobile, i could have just given links and sources like usual to prove you worng. Had to write it out this time.

-yuki

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