omgcherrydoll:
cheshireinthemiddle:
omgcherrydoll:
cheshireinthemiddle:
This is what I see on this website, other social media
sites and even television on a daily basis. This is the poorest excuse for “empowerment”
that I’ve seen in some time.
“Men are weak.” I can see where you get that. Men are much
more likely than women to commit suicide in basically every country in the
world. Men are much more likely to hide their abuse, rape, or assault. Men are
much more likely to hold in their feelings and just put up with their struggles
in silence. And with all of this, we still find it appropriate to make fun of
them.
Let me ask you this: If you were abused and your entire
gender was just as abused as the other gender, and you didn’t receive even half
of the services that they did for it, how would you feel? If there were no
shelters for you, hotlines don’t support you, and police adhered to a method
that assumes you the aggressor if you do seek help, if you knew you would be
made fun of and ignored all at the same time for voicing your concerns, If
society didn’t treat your problems even half as seriously as the problems of
the other gender, If talk shows and the media frequently excuses or downplays
the same horrible actions that men do, but only for women, would you want to
talk about your abuse?
How about encouragement? If you were told not to voice
concerns about your feelings or your appearance (“suck it up”, “man up”), if
you only see encouragement for self esteem and body image for the other gender,
if campaigns and celebrities only focus on the other gender exclusively, if it isn’t
considered appropriate for your gender to voice their concerns, how would you
feel? And to see a “men are weak” post to boot?
How about comparisons to experience? Men get told that they
are weak because they cant physically have babies. Like that’s some kind of
measurable variable in a debate. Many women choose not to have babies because
of the potential pain. Are they just as weak as men then? Men have external genitals
that are so sensitive, that blunt force could create extreme pain, vomiting,
and even fainting. Even after, the pain can continue. Men make up 93% of U.S.
Injury and Death in the workplace, and the number is similar in other countries.
This is because men are often forced to take the dangerous physical jobs. That
means that a majority of the people coming in with fingers, limbs, ect cut off
are men. Men who get treated for crushed body parts from working in a had
tiring job are men. This means those attacked by sharks, venomous, or overall
dangerous sea creatures while fishing are more than likely going to be male. Is
that not comparable to child birth? Is losing a limb or fainting from intense
pain not a factor here? And let’s not forget “Im scared to walk home at night
as a woman because I might get murdered.” It’s fine to be cautious, but
remember that men in all first world countries make up a majority (often vast
majority) of murder and homicide victims are male. Blame it on criminals
finding males more important to take out first, or not wanting to harm a woman
(and having no problem harming a male), but men are much more likely to be
killed at night than women, so making it a womens issue is insulting.
For you to pass along the “men are weak” message in an
attempt at empowerment or to make yourself feel better is pathetic. Men suffer
just as much as you do. Men fear harm, are harmed, abused, limited by society
and law, but unlike you, they don’t get help for it. People choose not to
recognize their pain like they do yours. You complain about an expectation from
society and get immediate support, but if men, who cant even complain about
these things, show discomfort with something, you all make fun of them. You are
not special. Your words are not empowering.
You are literally trying to tear someone down to make you
and your gender seem and feel better. That doesn’t sound like something that a
strong person or group would do. Making fun of people for being born a certain
way and ridiculing or ignoring the same problems that you have when it happens
to them does not make you powerful, it makes you a child.
P.S. If you reblog or create posts ridiculing
issues that men face instead of helping them, don’t you DARE claim to support
equality.
This post does have some valid points; there are aspects of our society that pressure those who identify as male to enter situations and occupations that put people at serious risk, and yes, sadly statically men are more likely to commit suicide globally. No one should be joking out serious shit that is plaguing society or bringing down another group of people in order to build yourself up.
I can’t comment on the post linked to above since it seemed to have been deleted, however after rereading and rereading this post, I can’t bring myself to ignore some of the very problematic ideas that are present. I have seen too many of these recently with a similar, defensive sentiment.
Just because women are praising their own strength doesn’t imply men are weak.
The above post stated that:
“Men are much more likely to hold in their feelings and just put up with their struggles in silence. And with all of this, we still find it appropriate to make fun of them.”
The very same thing could be said about women. For god knows how long, woman have been dehumanized in nearly every media known to man. A woman’s feelings, and more importantly her humanity are still being disregarded, then:
and now:
Men say some offensive stuff on more than just social media, but mediums that have real influence in public thought; advertising, political comics, films etc etc.
Suddenly, this treatment is not okay when men become the victim? Why wasn’t this sentiment voiced when it was happening with woman’s issues? This should be happening to NO ONE.
The fact men that are more likely to be attacked and potentially killed at night is true. However what this post has failed to mention is that most of the crimes against men reported or investigated can range from robberies, gang violence, brawls gone wrong, and random attacks of violence, AS WELL AS sexual violence. However, out of the crimes involving women, a shocking 83% of crimes reported are sexually motivated, and globally 1 in 3 women have been sexually assaulted by either a partner or someone they had no connection to. Woman have been attacked on the streets because the perps in question conceived their victims to be objects of sexual objectification.
The main point of difference is that gender does not necessarily have to play a role in the attacks men are involved in, although it can do. It’s shitty it happens, yeah, but woman are more likely to be attacked at night because they are women, which is why being safe at night has become a woman’s issue. To say that claiming it as a woman’s issue is insulting to the male gender actually discredits the real, genuine threat of sexual violence woman face.
Gender politics plays a massive role in the response to rape. It’s a tool for dominance and sexual gratification. It is perceived to be a crime only committed against the weak, and also stems from the idea that men are entitled to sex, plain and simple.
This philosophy is documented in various laws passed that were still being enforced until recently from a historical perspective.
The traditional idea that a man is stronger both mentally and physically than women, and that men are inherently sexual enforces the idea that sexual violence only happens to the weak, and has feminised the crime of rape. (here is a link to a book that discusses gendering crime in more depth) I’m not saying it doesn’t happen to men, because it does. What I am trying to get across is that the hegemony that results in men being discouraged to express emotional distress and prevents them from reporting sexual assault also results in the silencing of women.
It also prevents male victims of rape to be taken seriously, especially when the victim in question is openly gay if the attacker is female. Because in addition to the psychological damage that would have been done their gender identity is also being criticised.
It has become harder for BOTH WOMEN AND MEN to talk about rape, especially when the term is being thrown around as a joke. You’ve got kids yelling “Oh man, YOU JUST GOT RAPED” When they beat someone in a video game and the term being used as a treat in schoolyard scraps. That’s got to influence any kid’s understanding of it, right?
To claim that women have an easier time in speaking out is just wrong. There is no other way to put that. There is just as much resistance to female victims of rape speaking as there is for men. Look at the response on social media to any woman who had publically called out her abuser; she is incriminated for putting herself in the situation that supposedly caused the attack. An example of this can be seen in both the public and police response to the roast busters case, were underage girls were sexual assaulted, filmed, and the footage was posted online. You can also see it in the social media and Sony Music’s treatment of Ke$ha calling out her abuser.
When a man is a victim, he is a joke. Therefore, he is silenced. When a woman is a victim, she is held responsible for the crime. Therefore, she is silenced.
SOCIETY’S COLLECTIVE RESPONSE TO SEXUAL VIOLENCE SILENCES ALL VICTIMS OF IT, MALE OR FEMALE.
The above post also states that:
“Men fear harm, are harmed, abused, limited by society and law, but unlike you, they don’t get help for it.”
Of course, Men are at risk of violence; but to claim that men’s rights are limited by the law is baseless. There are other factors that need to be considered, such as race, sexual identity, socioeconomic group, and religion.
The law reflects the priorities and attitudes of the society in which the legislation was passed in. The western concept of law is one based on male values, and fundamentally male in its design. I genuinely can not think of any recent legislation that deliberately limits your rights solely and only because you’re a man.
Although, there are recent bills being proposed and passed around the world that affect women’s human rights such as the Mississipi House Bill 1523 (presented 2016) and Kenya’s Marriage Reform Act (reformed 2014; yay for polygamy, boo to the fact the first wife doesn’t have to consent for her husband to legally marry someone else; as far as I know women can not introduce another husband to the family)
Even though there have been laws placed to try and prevent gender-based discrimination from happening, the subjective nature of law allows for loopholes to pass sexist laws against women.
As for networks of support for sexual assault, there are a few that deal with both genders (I will post a list below), but out of the organisations that have been set to assist women were established by other women for other women who have been attacked by men. There is little to no government to assistance, and they tend to be purely community ran centres.
I think that the perceived lack of male orientated support networks is a reflection on the response to rape within the male populous, and not because women are seen as more relevant to society.
If you think there isn’t enough being done about it, work to fix it. Use your voice. Use social media. Bring the issue you are concerned with to men who may not be aware of the negative repercussions society’s current attitude to rape has.
Sexual assault is still considered too taboo in most countries, and I doubt any government will sit down and talk seriously about cracking down on how sexual assault can be addressed because it’s going to bring up some gender issues people aren’t going to want to talk about for whatever reason.
If anything, how the hell are women meant to help men when their own gender is still under attack?
Now, on to the one comment in this post that really gets to me:
“People choose not to recognize their pain like they do yours. You complain about an expectation from society and get immediate support…”
If this comment was even remotely close to being true, I wouldn’t be bothered writing this. I wouldn’t have to petition to stop child brides being legal in various countries. Muslim woman would be able to wear their traditional dress in France without being fined. I wouldn’t be told in my first week of law school that even though half of the class was female that only 20% percent of the top law firms in my country have women in high positions. I wouldn’t have to protest for my right to birth control and a safe abortion procedure.
If I “received immediate support” from my gender as well as those outside of it, it would be 2016 and there would have already been a woman living in the Whitehouse who wasn’t just the first lady and I wouldn’t have to prove the validity of my gender’s struggle over the internet.
I could continue to say that the big, scary statistic that 93% percent of serious workplace injuries is pretty irrelevant considering the likelihood of a workplace accident ever occurring in the United States is relatively low compared to the likelihood of a woman being killed by a man she knows. I could also add that internalized misogyny is what encourages men to take physical jobs what leads to women being discouraged from them in the first place…
…But I haven’t gone through the trouble of writing all this down because gender inequality is a competition. Because it’s not. I’m just trying to shed some light on some stuff that has failed to be mentioned.
TO SUMMARISE: The above post paints an incredibly distorted image of gender politics and fails to contemplate where the anti-male sentiment of women on tumblr has come from.
I am going to be nice here and because at least for part of you response, you were being polite. PLease forgive the concise response here. The only way to include links and images is to get off tublr mobile and use a Library Computer.
1. Men get made fun of all the time, even through history. While it is true that men have been n more positions of power to publicize their sexism, it isnt like women in publishing dont get away with much worse in our modern time. THe only way people try to justify this sexism is by claiming that it is revenge. But even within our history, evven without the same power that they have today, women still could do damage in the same way.
Like the whole white feather thing, were women would publicly shame men into joining a war, even if said men had just gotten back from it or suffered from mental illness
The only real difference is that it is immediately defended when it happens to women. It is often seen as empowering when done to men.
You act as if it is only men doing these things but women are just as guilty. Women judge men on their looks, women touch men innappropriately, women assault men, women catcall men, women joke about killing men, women make studies and laws based on their own personal sexism, ect. This is not a scenario where men did it exclusively and women are just getting revenge, Women have done it too and just dont get called out on it as much,
2. You have your crimes mixed up. Men being murdered and male victims of manslaughter are different things. Men who are killed while being robbed or attacked do count as being murdered. It doesnt lessen the crime.
You are gonna need some links on your accusation of what women report, because that seems like a reach. In addition, the “1 in single digit” stats have all been proven false. Whether you got it from admitted misandrist feminist Mary Koss, the Australian phone studies, or just from a friend, I am sure that they did not get enough countries to agree to said study to make that result.
3. Women are not attacked for “Being women”. They are attacked for the same reason as anyone else. They are being robbed. They got into a fight. They met a serial killer. The only people who kill women for being women would be serial killers like Jack the Ripper. Not too many of those around.
But using your logic, men are absolutely being killed for being men. Men are taught from birth to not harm women. Whether it is self defense or otherwise, men get shamed for harming women physcally by both men and women. So if a robber (male at least) sees a man and a woman together and wants to harm one, he will most likely try and kill the male. Not to mention drafts and Boko Haram attacks where the would literally raid a place and kill all the boys, leaving the girls alone (which btw was not turned into a gender issue or even a real issue at all).
Feeling safe at night is not a womens issue. The frequented reasons would be “Men dont have to carry weapons”, “men dont avoid dark alleys”, “men dont get scared at weird noises” which is insulting because yes men do fear unsafe situation.
It is really selfish to think otherwise.
4. What has “feminised” the crime of rape is literal laws. For a majority of the worlds population, the crime of rape, by definition, can only be committed by a person with a penis. 99.99% of the time, that is a man. This means that female rapists will not be recognized as such. She will often get away with the crime or get a severeky reduced sentence. The U.K., Northern Ireland, India, Malaysia, Isreal, China until 2015, The US until recently, ect. These countries, many of which are first world, do not recognise female rapists. In fact, in Isreal, the governments tried to change rape to be gender neutral, however once they did, they got strong opposition from feminist groups, womens rights groups, and female politicians. So much pressure and opposition that the decision was reversed once again.
In India, among other horrible crimes, Domestic Violence technically isnt domestic violence unless a man is the perpetrator. Literal inequality.
BUt that isnt all. By gendering solutions, we gender the problem. Governments typically save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars for gendered relief. Women’s abuse shelters, Womens rape shelters, however this leaves out roughly half of the victims. Almost no government has a men’s relief fund for abuse and rape victims. Another aid is public concern. Media typically caters to what the consumer wants. People typically do not react well to women being called rapists. So while a man forcing sex on a woman will be called rape (and rightfully so), women forcing sex on others is given a lighter spin.
https://www.facebook.com/messages/jalen.hutchinson#
In fact, even murder and genital mutilation, at least when done by women, gets a lighter response and even encouragement. Like The all female cast of daytime show The Talk and almost all female audience laughing at literal genital mutilation
When people gender issues so much and even laugh and ridicule you when they find out you are a victim of a horrible crime, you will be less likely to report it. Now this post does point out that this treatment is much much less common with female victims. countries have no laws or serious crime definitions that exclude women just because. And horrible crimes are taken more seriously.
5. Rape jokes are not any worse than murder jokes, kidnapping jokes, jokes about violence, jokes about mutilation, ect. You cannot pick and choose which dark humor topics are taboo. If Jokes about women “looking so good that they could kill a ma with a single glance” isnt promoting murder, then kids saying “I raped you” isnt going to encourage rape. Kids know these things are wrong.
6. Women have an easier time speaking out for the reasons given above. For half of the world, rape isnt something a man can be a victim of to a woman. They cannot come forth. Even in the US, this is just a recent change. Unlike with women, there are still people who honestly use “Women cannot rape men” as a way to excuse the crime.
“
Look at the response on social media to any woman who had publically called out her abuser; she is incriminated for putting herself in the situation that supposedly caused the attack
”
You mean like Mattress Girl? Who made a baseless acusation and was immediately believed? Where she made magazine covers, television interviews, won feminist awards, and even made a porno of her supposed rape? And even after basically all evidence disproved her claim, people still consider her a victim based purely on her word?
While women are treated innocent until proven guilty, men are typically guilty until proven innocent. and even then, people still consider them guilty.THe same thing can be said about the K$sha case. She made an accusation and without proof, people automatically believed her and took her side. Do you think men could get that kind of blind support in the same situation? There is a wonderful Tedtalk with a similar subject found here:
She explains how much more proof is needed when defending men. How women often take advantage of a system designed to help them, and when rape accusations are proven false, people dont give them even a fraction f the attention of the accusation themselves, perpetuating that an accusation is the same as a conviction.
7. “
genuinely can not think of any recent legislation that deliberately limits your rights solely and only because you’re a man.
”
Then you clearly haven’t tried looking. recent or not, injustices against men are ignored and often laughed at. I have a great list here of some. Not to mention the above soured issue with gendered rape definitions, which were stongly opposed, not by men (who are typically blamed for decisions of inequality), but by women and feminists.
Let us not forget the Deluth method, made by Mary Koss, which makes men who are victims of abuse to women more likely to be arrested than her if the man dares to call the police. Who is MAry Koss you ask? This woman
This clearly biased woman gets to make a study on sexual violence. Her studies are taken seriously. I can tell yo uright now that women definitely have the power to negatively influence “equality” and harm men.
“As for networks of support for sexual assault, there are a few that deal with both genders, but out of the organisations that have been set to assist women were established by other women for other women who have been attacked by men. “
See that is funny, because one of the first abuse shelters was made by a woman who also made a mens abuse shelter. Erin Pizzey was her name. She opened one for women, then after seeing that men were just as likely to be victims, opened a shelter for men. Like with Isreal, this received STRONG opposition from feminists. She received death threats, her property was vandalized, she was boycotted, and eventually ran to Canada to escape feminist attacks.
In many places, services are strongly exclusive.
“
There is little to no government to assistance, and they tend to be purely community ran centres
”
You seem to have your genders confused. While you can run an womens abuse shelter without gov’t assistance, first world (and even many 3rd world) countries have government funded abuse shelters. But only for women. If men want them, they have to fund them themselves. A man in Canada tried that as well It is sad really. He asked his government for money like they give for female victims of abuse, but he was turned down. He made an abuse shelter from his home, but he went bankrupt and committed suicide. He also received strong opposition from feminists btw.
“
If anything, how the hell are women meant to help men when their own gender is still under attack?
”
Answer: The same way men help women their own gender is under attack.Not to mention that so man women get away with inequality while still winning feminist awards and being allowed to claim to support equality.
Go ahead and look up who she is and the influence that she possesses.
“
f I “received immediate support” from my gender as well as those outside of it, it would be 2016 and there would have already been a woman living in the Whitehouse who wasn’t just the first lady and I wouldn’t have to prove the validity of my gender’s struggle over the internet.
”
that argument is terrible. To deny the gendered assistance fromthe government along with other large organizations **cough cough heforshe cough cough* is rediculous. TO think that the gender of the president changes that is idiodic. If that were the case, men would not be drafted exclusively for years, men would not have overwhelmingly high workplace injury and death rates, gendered homelessness rates, and suicide rates.
8. Women dont take dangerous jobs because they do not want them, especially laborous jobs. Laborous obs require that you be able to lift a certain amount of weight. Even MCdonalds demands you be able to carry a small amount of weight. Biologically, on average, men are physically stronger than women, so men are more likely to get those jobs. Said jobs are also more dangerous, so men are more likely to be hurt.
To summarize, it seems that the one with distorted views on gender politics is you. You are so quick to give priority to the victims that already get most of the support. As a US citizen (apparently), it shouldnt be that hard to see. It seems that you half support equality and half prioritize women any way you can, even on subjects where they arent the majority victims. Men get called weak and fragile when they struggle with gender roles while women get support. Men are at greater risk reporting abuse not only because they dont have shelters to go to, but because they could very well be arrested themselves.
So I will repeat. Men do have a harder time coming forth. Literal laws from countries that pride themselves on equality are in the way. Clear inequalities are often pushed b the same people who claim to support equality, and it is ignored as long as the benefitting group is women (shown from above links). Please reevaluate your concept of equality.
BACK AGAIN. First of all, I appreciate your effort in using some sources, it helps to really see what you’re getting at (don’t take as sarcasm I’m being genuine it does help)
HOWEVER, Two of your sources image sources are satirical. That famous image of the suffragettes was drawn up by cartoon artist who was against the idea elective equality; THAT is propaganda trying to make out the early feminists are hateful and violent. That piece of propaganda is actually what I was getting at when I said men have had control of mediums of political influence much longer than women have, and the fact you’ve used it shows that people still believe that feminists are out to get men.
So if anything, that is a piece of media slander against women, not men.The slims smokes add is also satirical to a certain extent; It was published in the 1970′s and takes the mickey out of the second wave feminist idea that a woman had a special strength of their own.
On the topic of sources, I actually got the 1 of 3 stat from the United Nations website, and it can also be found on the World Health Organisation’s page on sexual violence. If it was common knowledge that the statistic was no longer relevant, I doubt it would still be displayed on these high profile sites that are held very accountable for their globally applicable policies.
‘Mattress girl’ got the overwhelmingly positive media response because she, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, went beyond just trying to report her abuser. In regards to this, you’ve stated:
“men are typically guilty until proven innocent. and even then, people still consider them guilty.”
No. Not men. I’d like to think with a crime so serious the accused in question is treated as such, in the case of her accused was a man. In the very public cases involving male rape victims you’ve posted, the female accused was attack mercilessly by the public, and for good reason.
However, even when proven guilty in court, rapists can get a lighter sentence. AS I HAD ADDRESSED BEFORE, The law is AMORAL. A judge has a bias, like everyone else. If you want a recent example, look at the recent Brock Turner sentencing.
And as for it being baseless; AN ACCUSATION OF SEXUAL ASSAULT SHOULD NOT BE MADE OR TAKEN LIGHTLY. That applies to both WOMEN AND MEN. I’m hoping that most decent people hear ANYONE say ‘I’ve been raped’ doesn’t respond with ‘PROVE IT’ which is kind of what the above response above is implying through the wording; intended or not. When someone goes that fair to prove a point, I don’t think it would be baseless.
And yeah, I have heard of Erin; she’s a bad-ass. Though you should note I didn’t say there were NO gender neutral shelters, but due to the nature of rape and it’s effect on the individuals, having them separated based on gender due to the different response a victim might have as a result of their gender’s position in society.
(P.S. I’m not an American Citizen. gender equality doesn’t begin and end with the American, white feminist discourse. I have used American examples presuming you were from there since tumblr is mainly an American used site, and since American gender politics are usually displayed on a worldwide scale. In my country, and many others, these support networks receive little to no funding.)
Oh, and about governmental funding for those shelters, do you think governments just DECIDED to hand over cash from their already strained budgets to these places? God no. It’s the result of PUBLIC DEMAND. It works, you know, when there is enough people involved.
Also, even though the report on male victims of domestic violence is informative, and that domestic violence is a problem that needs to be solved, I don’t see why you needed to show me this when the discussion has stemmed from the safety of individuals outside the home in regards to gender; further proving you may have misunderstood why women perceive safety at night as a BIG ISSUE WOMEN FACE.
Furthermore, the above reply seems to think that I am showing my support for an identity group that doesn’t need, and ignoring the one that does:
“You are so quick to give priority to the victims that already get most of the support.”
I’m sorry if that if what you believe I’ve been getting at. I tried to avoid that by bolding my opinion that when it comes to sexual assault and misogyny. I mentioned various times:
- “SOCIETY’S COLLECTIVE RESPONSE TO SEXUAL VIOLENCE SILENCES ALL VICTIMS OF IT, MALE OR FEMALE.”
- “What I am trying to get across is that the hegemony that results in men being discouraged to express emotional distress and prevents them from reporting sexual assault also results in the silencing of women.”
- “When a man is a victim, he is a joke. Therefore, he is silenced. When a woman is a victim, she is held responsible for the crime. Therefore, she is silenced.”
- “It has become harder for BOTH WOMEN AND MEN to talk about rape, especially when the term is being thrown around as a joke.”
- “The fact men that are more likely to be attacked and potentially killed at night is true.”
I have acknowledged the severity of sexual assault. I have acknowledged the frightening high suicide rates men have globally. I have even touched on how internalized misogyny and a society built on perceived male strength and women’s weakness can contribute to nearly all the problems men face. Why I began to respond to the original post in the first place is you seemed to reluctant to do the same.
I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but I think it is you who is prioritizing a gender here.
“She explains how much more proof is needed when defending men. How women often take advantage of a system designed to help them…not to mention the above soured issue with gendered rape definitions, which were stongly opposed, not by men (who are typically blamed for decisions of inequality), but by women and feminists.”
This is sadly very true, but if you refer back to the book I linked above you’ll see how society approaches supposed crimes. I think you’ve misunderstood the nature gendering of crimes. It isn’t something people actively decide. It is a result of western attitudes towards certain crimes and how western ideas of gender play a role in that. Gendering crimes is not something I SUPPORT, or the international relations theorist who wrote the sources text. I believe that there will be no true gender equality until all gender binaries such as the concept of masculine vs feminine crime have been deconstructed. It’s not ‘this happens to women so it’s only women’s crime’ but a ‘how does gender politics influence society’s reaction to criminal activity and how is it a bad thing’.
(SIDENOTE: Why do you think men are typically blamed? I’m not trying to be aggressive, really, but think about it; it’s common knowledge men have been allowed decision-making power for centuries; it was an all male parliament that first passed the law that allowed women to vote. For a very, very long time female freedom has depended on male approval.)
I am also happy to say that many countries are working to redefine legal rape beyond penal penetration. This a good thing that everyone should to celebrating; especially since gender is purely conceptual anyhow, and that having a penis doesn’t make you a man.
“…then kids saying “I raped you” isnt going to encourage rape.”
No, it’s not. But rape isn’t on par with murder, is it? Kids will have experience with death, and would have learned about it through dealing with loss in their own families. Not every kid is going to be aware if a family member has been raped though, do they? No one wants to kids TO KNOW about sex when they are little, or sits down with them and explains what the concept of gender is and how that can influence conflict within a community. What joking about it does, when there IS NO CLEAR FOUNDATION OF UNDERSTANDING OF IT, means that rape can come off as something humiliating and something that IS MADE FUN OF. That is why joking about it makes it harder for men and women to come out about it; they’ve been taught it is somehow shameful.
Moving on, I see you’ve mentioned Mary Koss, and by the sounds of it, you understand feminism to only include thinkers like her. Although her theories have been accepted in some field of feminist thought, there isn’t just one type of feminist, and Koss certainly wouldn’t define it.
A few examples of different kinds of feminism are:
- postcolonial feminism
- critical and postmodern feminism
- liberal feminism
Koss is considered to be a misandrist, by other feminists and other schools of thought. HOWEVER, One thing you’ve got to recognise is their theories are not being celebrated ad accepted enough for them to be incorporated into society completely. To use her as a representative of feminism as a whole doesn’t represent a woman, feminist or not, train of thought.
Here are two random examples of prejudice theory or concepts explaining prejudice in our modern world that have been implemented and are still causing real problems around the world, UNLIKE Koss’ work.
- Social Darwinism
- Neocolonialism
You’ve also mentioned that how you understand it, if men had true power, men wouldn’t be conscripted into wars they don’t want to fight in:
“…men would not be drafted exclusively for years, men would not have overwhelmingly high workplace injury and death rates, gendered homelessness rates, and suicide rates.”
All I have to say is this: It’s the same concept of male supremacy that sends men to fight in war and tells women they can not.
“To think that the gender of the president changes that is idiodic. If that were the case, men would not be drafted exclusively for years, men would not have overwhelmingly high workplace injury and death rates, gendered homelessness rates, and suicide rates.”
If you think that women wanting a woman in power is because then we can have what we want? That suddenly women would be in political favor and all our problems would disappear?
None of that can be fixed with the wave of a politician’s magical wand, sexism against women is too entrenched in our society for that. It takes time, patience, and a majority of the public’s support. Just as it would to get the horrific homeless and suicide rates down.
It would mean that women would be recognized as being everything society has been telling them they’re not capable of for years.
why hello, Tumblr User. I guess we are continuing. I have gone back to the library just for responding to you.
1. Feminism is often thought to be anti-man, not from propaganda, but from the actions of feminists. You were actually shown proof of literal inequality pushed by feminism when it could benefit men, and even popular and influential feminists and their biased and sexist views towards men. Second, you equated being critical of feminism to hating women, which is also a big problem because feminism =//= women. Feminism is one of many groups claiming to support gender equality. As such it does not have monopoly over equality and is open to criticism like any other group. You dont want to get us started on this, because we are using Tumblr, one of the many social media sites with high feminist influence and very large anti-male group that gets more support than opposition from fellow feminists. We have screenshots of tons of popular anti-male quotes from feminists.
2 Both the UN and President Obama have used and repeated Feminist Mary Koss’s biased studies. The UN even endorsed Heforshe as gender equality despite the group’s mission statement only supporting women and girls (the group that already gets most of the attention and help). So a study being recognized by the US government or the UN doesnt necessarily make it valid.
3. “
‘Mattress girl’ got the overwhelmingly positive media response because she, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, went beyond just trying to report her abuser.
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No. No she didnt. She did not go to the police. She did not report him. She made a public accusation of rape with no evidence, then made an ostentatious show/art project, to gain attention. She went on magazine covers, talked in front of feminist groups, and even recreated her supposed rape in a porno, but did not do the bare minimum and contact the police. You can try and claim that she was too ashamed to go to the police like what is said about other accusers, however if she wasnt ashamed to go on television or get interviewed in magazines, she could have certainly gone to the police. The problem was that her story was full of holes and the police would have asked for evidence (surprise surprise). BUt perhaps we cannot explain it well enough. So we have some details found here by tenaflyviper:
“Paul Nungesser was cleared of the charge of rape against Emma Sulkowicz. This was after a seven-month-long investigation. Nungesser openly cooperated with the police after the university’s investigation, and prosecutors declined to pursue the case any further.
Nonetheless, Nungesser was not given a fair trial. He was not allowed to call any witnesses, and he was not allowed to present any evidence.
“He was not allowed to bring up communications between himself and Ms. Sulkowicz after the night in question.“
Sulkowicz had been sending him a barrage of text messages before, during, and evenafter she accused him of rape. Right in the transcription of the official lawsuit itself, you will find numerous text messages of Sulkowicz proclaiming her “love” to Nungesser, and repeatedly stating how much she “misses” him.
It was Sulkowicz that brought the texts to court. It was HER OWN EVIDENCE that discredited her.
Sulkowicz breached the university’s confidentiality agreement regarding the case. These agreements exist to protect falsely accused students of further defamation.
And yet, Nungesser’s lawsuit is against Columbia University, and not against Sulkowicz.
The two other women that brought accusations against Nungesser are personal friends of Sulkowicz, and made their claims after her story went viral. He was found innocent of these accusations as well.
Sulkowicz did not carry the mattress strictly to make a “statement”. She was receiving class credit for doing so, and has also expressed interest in selling the mattress to a museum. This means that the university gave the okay for a student to publicly humiliate another student after he was already found innocent by a court of law.
Sulkowicz then went on to make a pornographic video out of her alleged “rape” in order to further PROFIT OFF OF IT. Let me repeat that so the people in the back can hear it: SHE SEXUALLY EXPLOITED HERSELF FOR PROFIT.”
So she accused a guy of a horrible crime with no evidence, then milked the situation for public attention, grades, money, and temporary fame. The reason people began speaking out against her was her own actions. She was willing to go to news networks, but not police to file charges. She gave an inconsistant story that was proven wrong by the texts on her own phone (she could have at least deleted them if she planned on lying), she basically showed that false rape accusations can be a profitable experience. Despite the evodence clearly siding with the accused, there are still people who blindly believe her word over his + the clearly supportive evidence. It is one of the many cases that shows that in rape and sexual assault cases, a man and a womans word are not the same. A womans accusation needs no proof to be believed, but a man needs a pile of evidence to even receive equal weight in their argument.
4. “ In the very public cases involving male rape victims you’ve posted, the female accused was attack mercilessly by the public, and for good reason.
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Also incorrect. The media specifically avoided the word rape to make it seem like a lesser crime. The social media and even article responses were supportive of the accused.
Which isnt uncommon for female on male rape.
5. Yes, yes, and this woman got 48 weekends in jail for raping a 15 year old. (surprisingly, they called it rape, but the sentence was lower than usual.)
6. “
I’m hoping that most decent people hear ANYONE say ‘I’ve been raped’ doesn’t respond with ‘PROVE IT’
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No, asking for proof actually is essential. Rape is a serious crime. Like murder or assault, it has an aggressor who will most likely be heavily punished or (even if he or she is found innocent), will likely be shamed and have a rough life. If someone makes an accusation of a serious crime, it is best to be neutral about the situation until you have actual proof. The mattress girl case was a great example on how “believe the woman” (because again, blindly believing the supposed victim doesn’t work nearly as well for male victims) can actually be harmful to actual rape cases.
7. “
Oh, and about governmental funding for those shelters, do you think governments just DECIDED to hand over cash from their already strained budgets to these places? God no. It’s the result of PUBLIC DEMAND. It works, you know, when there is enough people involved.”
yes, I am saying that the government decides what to do with tax payer money, and when the money is going to something gendered, it often is exclusively for women. From a post by AFPE, found here:
Men want equal economic support and help from the government. When the recession hit, male-dominated fields like construction lost millions of jobs, while female-fields like education and healthcare gained jobs. So the government proposed an economic stimulus for those fields.
Feminists successfully fought against this, arguing that it was discrimination to support men, and caused the government to give money to women who didn’t deserve it.
This would be just one example.
8. “
Also, even though the report on male victims of domestic violence is informative, and that domestic violence is a problem that needs to be solved, I don’t see why you needed to show me this when the discussion has stemmed from the safety of individuals outside the home in regards to gender
”
The original post was about men having trouble coming forth at all, in most situation about being victims of abuse. So yes, mentioning countries that dont count male victims, or make it much harder for them to come forward is a valid point to bring up.
“ Further proving you may have misunderstood why women perceive safety at night as a BIG ISSUE WOMEN FACE. “
It seems that you may have skipped out on the while argument that we made disproving that. The common argument in favor of making it a womens issue is that men “don’t have to worry about” Being attacked, carrying a weapon, avoiding shady areas, ect. Men in the US are much much more likely to be harmed while walking home at night compared to a woman. These people, including you, are so focused on the female victims that you cannot even try and make your stance gender neutral. Now you can argue your sexual assault case, but I can tell you right now that murder is much worse than sexual assault, and is a much better reason to be scared. While you can get over a sexual assault and lead a great life (Oprah is a great example of this), you cannot do anything after being murdered. You cant get over that. This isnt even mentioning simple assault like being stabbed, which men are also much more likely to be victims of. While you can try and make it a gender neutral issue, it is entire selfish to claim that being scared walking home at night is a womens issue. It is the same as making homelessness a womens issue or the Women’s UN making suicide a womens issue. Insulting. If your group is not the majority, you should be shooting for making it gender neutral.
9. “
Why do you think men are typically blamed? I’m not trying to be aggressive, really, but think about it; it’s common knowledge men have been allowed decision-making power for centuries; it was an all male parliament that first passed the law that allowed women to vote. For a very, very long time female freedom has depended on male approval.)
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First of all, you seem to think that women would not do the same in the same situations. We have already shown that sexist magazine articles are also made by women when they are put in the same positions of power, along with CEOs of shelters, and those in charge of scientific studies. When women are in charge, especially all female groups, they are just as capable of making one sided decisions as men. We even see that in presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton and her bias against males. This means that you have to rely on the individual’s cocnept of equality instead. That someone does not have to be part of your group to support equality.
Additionally, you seem confused about how things worked in the US at least back then. In the US, basically anyone could vote provided they were a land owner. This meant that women could vote, black people could vote, ect. They just had to own land. The problem was that most people did not own land, including white men. SO many people couldnt vote. One president (I believe thomas jefferson) fought and succeeded to get at the very least, white males the right to vote without land ownership. THIS is what sparked the debate about equality. The immediate response from both men and women was that others should also be able to vote. Women, racial minorites, ect. Before suffrage or feminism even gained any political ground, half of the states already allowed women the right to vote, and they received scores less opposition than black males did.
10. To say that death is equivalent to murder is like saying that sex is equivalent to rape. Yes children will encounter death in their lives, but many will not encounter murder. Murder is much more serious than a simple death from old age or sickness. The same with rape. And even with these clearly being recognized as bad, only one is really seen as taboo to joke about. The same thing can be seen with the feminist controversy with the game of thrones scenes. This show shows constant gruesome deaths and murders, which are apparently fine, but a rape is apparently over the line and promoting rape. Joking about a crime does not make it okay in the minds of the listeners. That is absurd. In fact, coming from a therapy point of view, joking about things often make them easier to talk about. THe same jokes that are made about rape are also made about suicide and kidnapping, murder and assault. “If he is late again, I will kill him” does not make murder okay in the ears of the listeners. It is a joke. The only people who take that as permission to do the crime or ignore victims are people who would already do that pre joke.
11. “
Moving on, I see you’ve mentioned Mary Koss, and by the sounds of it, you understand feminism to only include thinkers like her.
”
Incorrect. We have stated before that it is an example of inequality being spread and people not seeing a problem with it. Whether you support her or not, Mary Koss is a popular and influential feminist whose works, in the name of feminism, have spread sexism through things like the deluth method and gendered assistance for rape and sexual assault with her 1 in 4 statistic. It is the fact that her clear negative influence is supported enough that they are not being opposed by “good” feminism. The problem is that “bad” feminism isnt being regularly fought against. It is often celebrated. #endfathersday, #killallmen, #masculinitysofragile, Karen Ingala Smith and her Influence, Anita Sarkeesian and her influence, Hillary Clinton and her influence, ect.
People are so scared to be critical of feminism and call it out when it is wrong that the bad in feminism often goes unchecked and grows. even the examples that you provided have their own side of unchecked double standards and hypocrisy.
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HOWEVER, One thing you’ve got to recognize is their theories are not being celebrated ad accepted enough for them to be incorporated into society completely.
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Again, People like this actually do have influence in our society. MAry Koss’s study has been quoted by the president. Her influence created a primary aggressor clause that paints clear male victims or domestic violence as the aggressor, again making it harder for them to get help than women, quite literally at an institutionalized level.
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All I have to say is this: It’s the same concept of male supremacy that sends men to fight in war and tells women they can not.”
Is it that same male supremacy that fueled the whole white feather movement that shamed men and boys into going to war (often perceived as for women)? Where women would give white feathers to shame men, even those who just got back from war, to join and supposedly not come back until the war was over, leading many to kill themselves in shame?
Women, even without political power, have power in our society. The power to create and perpetuate gender roles, the power to teach these to children (being the majority gender of teachers, caregivers, babysitters, ect.)
12. You seem to assume female solidarity. That women in power will band together and agree on topics so easily. Hopefully that isnt the case, because you would be incorrect. Even on perceived womens issues like abortion, roughly half of female politicians oppose it. This means that even with a female president adn even a full female government,