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Topics:
1. Podcast updates. [3:28]
2. Liz’s book news [10:10]
3. Can we get a rant-rant? [19:48]
4. Understanding carb recommendation. [33:01]
5. Bone broth and MSG. [38:12]
6. Bras. Friend or foe? [43:01]
7. Losing ground to gain more complete health. [47:55]
Links
Upcoming events!
Splits 59
Tessemae’s
New York Times Best Seller List
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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Welcome to episode 117 of the Balanced Bites podcast. I feel like I’ve said that before.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I’m Liz. That’s Diane. {laughs} Episode 117, take 3. So, before we get started, I’m going to give a little shout out to our sponsors. Paleo Treats; get 15% off when you enter the code BALANCEDBITES at checkout. Try the new Bandito bar; it’s amazing. Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. Pete’s Paleo is now offering our listeners a free pound of bacon with the purchase of any meal plan. And that offer is valid through December 31st of this year. This is 2013, since we will be in the online podcast universe for time immemorial.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Valid through 2013. And finally, Chameleon Cold-Brew, who everybody knows we’re obsessed with at this point.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I got my shipment yesterday, and it’s already half gone.
Diane Sanfilippo: No it’s not!
Liz Wolfe: No, it’s not.
Diane Sanfilippo: No it’s not, you’re lying.
Liz Wolfe: I know.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve started, like a mini _____ art project in my kitchen with all of the Chameleon Cold-Brew bottles that I’ve collected over the last several months. So, when this installation of mine is finished, I’ll take a picture of it {laughs} and then I suppose I’ll recycle all of those bottles.
Liz Wolfe: I’ve been saving the bottles, too. I wish that I was more, you know, crafty. I’m sure there’s something cool.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s really not that earth shattering, but I’m thinking of those old episodes of Sex in the City where Carrie is dating Baryshnikov.
Liz Wolfe: Petrovsky?
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, why a ballet dancer was on that show, I have no idea.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: But he was like this artist who made these light installations, and that was his art. And so I’m like, oh, these are Chameleon Cold-Brew bottle installations in my kitchen. It’s really not that crazy, but.
Liz Wolfe: What’s funny; that’s exactly where my mind went when you said installation.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I thought of Alexander Petrovsky. “You’re moving to France with a Ruskie?”
Diane Sanfilippo: So weird. Anyway.
Liz Wolfe: Anywhoo.
Diane Sanfilippo: That was like the most, like, jumping the shark plotline. Right?
Liz Wolfe: That whole show, I go back and watch it now. That whole show is literally the worst. It’s like, sets feminism back.
Diane Sanfilippo: But it was the best!
Liz Wolfe: By 100 years, man. Gloria Steinem hid under her bed the whole time that fricking show was on.
Diane Sanfilippo: But it was fun to watch.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, at the time it was.
Diane Sanfilippo: It was fun. Anyway.
Liz Wolfe: “Men are so confusing! Why doesn’t the mean guy like me? Why is the mean guy mean to me?”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Stupid.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: Ok. So, what’s up.
1. Podcast updates. [3:28]
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so, what’s up with me. It’s actually what’s up with us and the radio show, podcast. Some people who are checking out the blog post and the show notes may notice that we have an icon of a place to listen to the show, it’s called IOradio, or RadioIO.com is their website. It’s part of a new series called Be Well Radio, so folks can go over there and check out the lineup of other podcasts that are on there as well. Other leading health and fitness talent, I guess we’re being called.
Liz Wolfe: Ha! {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It includes our show, which obviously {laughs} I don’t know. I don’t know why they wanted us, I don’t know what they find valuable here. Just kidding.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Great. Robb Wolf, Abel James, Jonathan Bailor, other names that are going to be included, just syndicating the show so that lots of other folks can check it out, so you can head over to RadioIO.com, and it’s called Be Well Radio.
Liz Wolfe: Coolness.
Diane Sanfilippo: So that’s that. Uh, what else? Updates. I guess as of the time this show goes live on Thursday, starting tomorrow on Balancedbites.com, we are having 12 Days of Giveaways. My team assembled this, so I say we, and I’m like, I don’t even know what this is about, but my team is awesome. Every day for the next 12 days, you’ll have a chance to win lots of amazing goodies, books, gift certificates, different services, all of that. So, let’s see, I guess the total of all the giveaways we have is like $1600 bucks. That sounds pretty good.
Liz Wolfe: Oooh.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it’s different winners every day, so check out the Balanced Bites website and Facebook beginning tomorrow for a chance to win. I think some of the cool stuff we’re going to have is like free, maybe 3 pounds of Pete’s Paleo bacon, an awesome gift certificate from Splits 59. It’s an athletic apparel company I’ve been getting some cool stuff from. It’s super comfy, I pretty much wear it 24/7, even in the shower. No, I’m kidding. Some Tessemae’s, some epic bars, all kinds of goodies that everyone loves. When do you want to tell people that it’s your team. You want to tell them about your team?
Liz Wolfe: My team is composed of {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Two goats, and a very large sleepy dog. What’s this Splits 59 situation?
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a small company based in LA. It actually; I’m probably going to meet one of the women who is sort of in charge, I think she’s one of the founders. I’m not sure how to pronounce her name. Forgive me, _____ maybe, or something like that? She is just, like, super cool, into what we’re doing with real food nutrition and paleo stuff and basically just contacted, and said hey, do you want to try some of our products, and I’m like yes! Um, I mean.
Liz Wolfe: Surprise! New clothes!
Diane Sanfilippo: Do I want athletic apparel? I mean, come on. So, she sent me a whole bunch of cool stuff, and she sent some stuff for the coaches at my gym which was so, so nice of her. A couple of the colors in their line recently were purple and orange, which, Brazen Athletics, purple and orange. So we’ve been rocking some of their stuff. It’s just super comfy and, I don’t know I just really love it, so I don’t know. That’s it.
Liz Wolfe: Maybe try that instead of … maybe ask for a little of that for Christmas instead of the Lululemon?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Pretty good.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, I like supporting small companies too, and they are really into supporting what we’re doing, as well, so.
Liz Wolfe: Nice.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool stuff. I think I have to give some folks a couple of other updates. Let’s see. Events; don’t forget to check out the sidebar on Balancedbites.com. I’ve actually got a book signing, it will be tonight if you’re listening to this on Thursday, here in New Jersey, at Montclair at the public library. I almost forgot about that myself.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m going to have to shower again tomorrow? What? Um, and then starting, well I think I’m going to have an event in Naples, Florida. Probably on Friday, December 27th, after the holidays. A perfect time to come, grab a copy of The 21-Day Sugar Detox or the cookbook, or just bring copies that you already have and get them signed. So, I’ll post more details about that, and then starting January 4th, we’ve got a seminar here in Fairfield, New Jersey. Myself and Dr. Scott are teaching that one. You and I are teaching in Philly on January 25th, and then from January 9th through the 15th, I’ll be touring the West Coast. Three dates in California, one in Portland, and one in Seattle with the Food Lover’s, Bill and Haley, so they’re going to come with. My whole little crew. It’s going to be really fun. There’s like, maybe 8 of us, touring around. I’m pretty sure we’re renting a giant van and Bill Staley will be driving us down the pacific coast highway {laughs}. If you want to come join us, Liz.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: But if anybody is driving down the highway, wave to us, honk your horn. We’ll be driving.
Liz Wolfe: Um, I’ll pass.
Diane Sanfilippo: We’ll be driving from San Francisco to LA on the 10th, so that will be fun. So, yeah, just check out all the dates, and come visit us. In Portland, we’re also signing with Michelle Tam of Nom Nom Paleo. That event has close to 200 people already RSVP’d, so it’s going to be ginormous. The rest of the events all are also, most of them are close to 100 if not more than 100 people already, so they’re going to be really, really awesome events. Also a chance to kind of meet some other paleo folks that you just, you know, want to get out and see who is in this little world with you in your local area. Those are the big updates. Oh yeah, one more big update! Sorry.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Super excited and super thankful for everyone’s support of The 21-Day Sugar Detox thus far, because I found out last week that it made the New York Time’s list. So, that was like.
Liz Wolfe: Woot, woot!
Diane Sanfilippo: Huge. Yeah. That was huge. It’s just one of those things where you work super hard on a book, and want it to be everything that people want it to be, as you know Liz.
Liz Wolfe: Uh-huh.
Diane Sanfilippo: While working on your book, for which I’ve written a forward. Which means I got to read it before other people. I love that. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Lucky.
Diane Sanfilippo: But, yeah, I just want to say thanks to everyone for supporting it, and hopefully you can come out to an event, and yeah. That’s kind of it. And maybe you can tell folks a little bit more about your book that I wrote this forward for?
2. Liz’s book news [10:10]
Liz Wolfe: I’m dying because Amazon has not… it’s been weeks, and Amazon has not uploaded the cover and updated descriptions. And I like, I want to talk about it so badly.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m sure there’s a bunch of sneaky folks who found it.
Liz Wolfe: There have been.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I’m just going to tell people, before you find it, or before you get a chance to read it, it’s one of those things where, like, I’m so excited for you, because when I wrote Practical Paleo, it was like, ok good I can get all this stuff that I know that I’m constantly answering questions about, and telling people at the seminar, and all over the place, you know, into one book as best I can.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, it is really; you can’t get everything you know into one book. But, in terms of at least your point of view and based on your education and your experience and all of that, I just… it is so you, this book. Like, if people love reading your blog, which obviously they do because it’s hilarious.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: But they learn so much, and I think so many times we’re just bored. Like, I’m not funny. I say it all the time. My book, it was like I wanted to be funny in my book, but this just isn’t me. And here and there I can throw in something because I’ll get silly about things now and then, but it’s just such your way that reading it is “edutainment” at its best.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, you’re learning and you’re laughing the whole time, and you know, it’s like you’re serious when you need to be, you’re like, ok, hold on, let me explain this to you, and then you’re bringing in tons of just great analogies and ways to keep it kind of fun and lively that people will be entertained the whole time and read through it probably pretty quickly. It won’t be one of those nutrition books where you’re like, oh I’m so bored I’m putting this down. Or it weighs like, 20 pounds so I can’t possibly keep reading it. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: So, anyway. I just thought it was really great, and I loved that, you know I could get a real sense from the fact that over the past, you know, couple of years or past year I guess of teaching seminars together, like a lot of what you and I have seen are the questions that people have. You’ve been able to put it into a format that you can answer a lot of that in a book, and that was something similar to what I did, but the books are like, COMPLETELY different.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm. They are.
Diane Sanfilippo: So it’s not like… it’s almost like if you were to read both of those, it’s like, you have it all. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, our work here is done, folks. But anyway, I think it’s great. I’m really excited for you. Yeah, I don’t know.
Liz Wolfe: Thank you, friend. That endorsement means a ton.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’ll let you talk now.
Liz Wolfe: Well, I mean, you pretty much said what I was hoping…you’re the first person, I mean, obviously besides my editor, but you’re the first person to really read it as a whole, and that… I could not have hoped for better words from anybody. That is exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to keep it fun, but I wanted to tell people about what that needed to know about how the heck we got to where we are, and it’s a lot of kind of funny, kind of sad, kind of awesome information all together in the same place. And it’s a lot of the stuff that really changed my life personally, so. I’m just, like… I just want it to get out there.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: And I want to get it out there the most effective way I can, and I think for the most part just people expressing their excitement about it, and wondering why I’m not talking about it? It’s because the fricking cover is not up on Amazon yet.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: But I’m dying. And I’m going to do a little special thing, I think, for the holidays, and this may be. I may give myself carpel tunnel, I don’t know. But for folks that are planning on purchasing it, I might do a limited number of little gift postcards, folks that, I’ll make an announcement.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ooohhh!
Liz Wolfe: Go to my website… I know. Go to Cavegirleats.com and sign up for email Mondays, because in addition to the posts that I write for subscribers every week, I also do announcements like this, so I’ll announce this in email Monday. But if you do order the book for a loved one for the holidays, I’ll send you a little postcard that basically has the cover on it that says a loved one bought you this gift for the holidays, it will be out February 2014 with a little handwritten note from me. Just, to, you know, maybe as a stocking stuffer or something like that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. I love that.
Liz Wolfe: So, sign up for email Monday and you’ll get that announcement when it’s out.
Diane Sanfilippo: And now you’ve promised it, so it’s going to have to happen.
Liz Wolfe: And now I have to do it. Yup. So, yeah, we’ll do that. I can’t guarantee that the postcard will get there in perfect timing because obviously this is kind of off the cuff here, but you’ll get a postcard.
Diane Sanfilippo: Maybe you could like email them something to print or something.
Liz Wolfe: That actually is a good idea, but I really did want to like…
Diane Sanfilippo: I know.
Liz Wolfe: Sign each one individually. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, yeah, you could do that too. Well, watch out {laughs} you’re going to have a lot of preorders, and be like, “oh shoot!”
Liz Wolfe: I hope so. That’s what I need.
Diane Sanfilippo: I know.
Liz Wolfe: If anybody can support me in this mission, please now is the time. Don’t wait!
Diane Sanfilippo: So, let me say one other thing about this book, because it’s kind of like one of the reason why I really love John Durant’s book, is that he gives a really different context to paleo than like, Robb Wolf, Mark Sisson, even like what Chris Kresser’s book is that is coming out soon, which I also love but also totally, totally different. It’s that for everyone of us who finds our way to paleo, the light turns on for a different reason. Not everybody has the “I want to lose weight” mindset. Not everybody has that “I have an autoimmune condition” mindset. Not everybody…we all come to it from a different way, and people are always like, how _____ I express this to somebody else, so I think it’s really great to have totally different means. And like, if you want to give somebody a book that is entertaining, but actually educates them, like, your book is so that book. And it’s also what I love, which I’ve loved the whole time we’ve been teaching together, is like the history component of it.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because I think that’s …. And not paleo history, more recent history. Some of the Weston Price, industrialization of food, and seed oils, and all of that stuff. That’s the stuff that I think is most important. Even more important than some of the, when we talk about our ancestors and what they ate, you know, for millions of years. I find that less relevant than
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well wait a minute, who told us this was bad? Who told us this was good? What happened? Why did it happen? And what is really the truth? I think it just gives it so much better current day modern context that just clicks. For me, that’s what clicks the most, and I know when you and I talk about it in the seminars, we’re like, look this isn’t just about paleo. This is about the 1930s or the early 1900s and how food changed, you know, over the last, even just century.
Liz Wolfe: 50 years, even.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I’m fascinated by the history. And that’s what, that’s kind of what my buy in was.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Like I talk about in the introduction, and obviously you’ve read it, but I was in because I felt better. I did, I started in on paleo as a list of diet rules. Really going into it, convinced that I would do it because I was going to try another diet, but then I felt so much better. However, in the back of my mind, I was still thinking, wait, isn’t meat going to give me cancer, and aren’t I supposed to eat whole grains, and don’t I need dairy, and….you know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Is all this cholesterol from the egg yolks going to…
Diane Sanfilippo: All the myth busting.
Liz Wolfe: All of that. And so that is where I started digging in. Because when you hear {laughs} When you hear about, for example, the origins of like the fiber myths, and even just the story of John Harvey Kellogg, which who I make fun of a little bit in the book.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Like, it’s almost comical how we got from eating real food, the types of foods that our grandparents and their grandparents ate and that cultures across the world ate for thousands of years; we got up to 1900, 1950s, it’s freaking laughable. And it’s hilarious, it’s probably part of the reason my book is so funny, but yeah, I mean.
Diane Sanfilippo: It is hilarious that we’re like, how did we decide to trust these people.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: To tell us what to eat, when those people were never qualified in the first place to be telling us what to eat.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Anyway. Awesome.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. And I think also, we’re going to have Denise Minger on the show in the future, who just released her book, Death by Food Pyramid, and I think our books are going to complement each other really well, also. So, I’m excited to talk to her. So thanks for all your kind words, friend!
Diane Sanfilippo: Sweet. Yeah. Troops. They’re all troops!
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Troops.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, 15 minutes. Sorry to those of you who don’t appreciate our introductory information, but I consider the topic of your book a topic. A legit topic. So.
Liz Wolfe: And if we want to get it and keep it in bookstores, I need everybody’s support now and not later. So we’re going to be talking about a little bit going forward.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Awesome.
Liz Wolfe: Awesome.
Diane Sanfilippo: {Jersian} Awesome.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I should find ways to bring my Jersey accent out more.
Liz Wolfe: I agree.
Diane Sanfilippo: Chameleon Cold-Brew {Jersian} Coffee.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Discuss.
Diane Sanfilippo: Discuss. I’m getting … talk amongst yourselves.
Liz Wolfe: Oh man.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: Alright.
Diane Sanfilippo: Let’s go.
Liz Wolfe: So this first question is entitled; can we get a rant-rant?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
3. Can we get a rant-rant? [19:48]
Liz Wolfe: I’m sure you can. Alright. “So, hey ladies, I have a two part question that will hopefully inspire some good ranting. Number one; how do you deal with concern trolls.” I love that term, concern trolls. “and, two, how do you deal with people who are, for lack of a better term, weird about you being paleo. Number one. To use a silly term, concern trolls are people who like to nag you. You’re a runner? Oh, you’re ruining your knees. You’re a cross-fitter? Oh, you’re ruining your joints, and besides…”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: “Good Morning America said it was dangerous. You’re off dairy because you’re paleo? You’re going to get osteoarthritis, and besides, the government says milk and grains are good for you. Etc, etc.” P.S., you can just hand all of those people my book.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Because I tackle every single thing in there. “These people are almost never qualified to make these judgments, and they are almost always wrong. I usually just smile and say nothing and change the subject, but I’m honestly getting a little tired of this. Any other tips for dealing with this type of person?”
Diane Sanfilippo: Should we, uh…
Liz Wolfe: You want to do that one.
Diane Sanfilippo: Should we answer that and then do the second part?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, let’s do it. What are your tips?
Diane Sanfilippo: Aww, shoot. You’re going to ask me first?
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know, you usually have something to say.
Diane Sanfilippo: {Laughing}
Liz Wolfe: My tips are…
Diane Sanfilippo: Is that why we have a podcast?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, pretty much. My tips are, just smile. Just smile and look pretty. It’s just not worth… it’s just not worth it. What am I, like 5 years into this lifestyle? It’s not worth it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I don’t know who these people are. Who are these people? Are they supposed to be your friends? Like honestly, I have plenty of friends who don’t do CrossFit and don’t eat paleo; they would never talk to me that way.
Liz Wolfe: There’s like a subset of people in the online environment who, the second you say something… and I probably used to be one of them.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Like, today I posted something about white potatoes.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Oh. Wo-oo wo-oo! Paleo police!
Liz Wolfe: Oh, the other day I posted something about how I cook something, and it was like… yeah, it was the paleo police. It was like you shouldn’t boil it because steaming is healthier, winky face. And this person was joking, but I’ve gotten plenty of serious comments like that, like nitpicking over nothing, and it’s a subset of people that like to finger wag rather than triage what’s going on in their own life.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, I think there are two things here. One… three, actually. One, I would, as you said, smile and nod and just ignore them. It’s what I do when somebody obviously is talking about something they don’t know anything about. I can’t engage in a conversation with somebody who has that attitude. I just don’t do it. Literally do not even engage in a conversation. Two, I think if it’s somebody who says something that you have, like a fact to give them back in a non-argumentative way, like, well the government says grains are good for you, or you’re going to get osteoarthritis without milk, it’s like, well actually, the reason why people are losing bone density is for a lack of vitamin A and balance of vitamin D, proper amount of vitamin K2, and minerals that balance everything, besides calcium. It’s not just about calcium.
Liz Wolfe: Which I talk about in my book.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So if you want to say something that’s like, you feel confident with the rebuttal that’s actually factual and not heated in an emotional, argumentative way, well actually, that’s not true. Did you know that this is the truth? Or not. Like, I honestly, unless somebody was asking me about it, in like a Q&A or something, if I’m doing a book signing, and somebody says “well I thought you needed to have milk” then they are asking me for information. If they are just saying it, and they just want to be like, well I’m right you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s probably not worth it. I think the biggest, most important thing to take from this scenario is to not be this person to other people.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I’m serious.
Liz Wolfe: No, it’s true.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, if you’re looking, you know, you’re trolling through Facebook, and somebody is posting about their vegan or vegetarian diet, and you don’t think it’s right, keep your mouth shut. There’s no reason to just hop on a thread, or comment to somebody who is talking about something, and they’re not asking you about it. There is no reason to butt in with your commentary. That’s kind of, that’s where I come from on it. I would never like, overhear people at a party talking about how healthy their new diet is, and then just butt myself in and tell them they are wrong. I would never do that. And that’s not because I don’t have plenty to say about it. It’s just because it’s not my place, and it’s not worth it. It’s not the right thing to do. Like, who do these people think they are? Ugh. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I agree. Well, let me read this second one because it’s kind of, part and parcel.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. {Laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} So this is two. “This is a little broader, but there are a lot of people who have just been weird about my being paleo. They include part-time paleo people, like my husband”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} oh shoot. What is part-time paleo? Because I might be part-time paleo.
Diane Sanfilippo: {singing} Part-time Paleo! {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like, I don’t even know.
Liz Wolfe: “Part-time paleo people like my husband…”
Diane Sanfilippo: They’re like, 50% paleo? I don’t know.
Liz Wolfe: What does that mean? They eat a lot of white potatoes and oatmeal because if that’s the case…uh.
Diane Sanfilippo: You’re fired from paleo?
Liz Wolfe: Fired. I don’t need.. ugh. We can talk about that. We got a question about oatmeal that came through that we’ll answer in the next couple of shows, I liked that question.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Alright.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: “So, part-time paleo people like my husband, who gives me grief for sticking to the paleo way when we go on vacation, to my mother-in-law who is really offended when I simply said ‘no thank you’ to the Easter candy she offered me, to people who get weird when I go to bars and don’t drink. Let me point out that I’m happy to hang out in bars and drink sparkling water and really don’t care if other people drink or not. I could care less if other people chose to eat candy or grains or whatever. When someone asks me why I eat the way I do, I just say, ‘it cleared up my digestive issues’ and leave it at that. I’ve had people tell me I’m taking it too far when all I’m doing is eating a healthy diet of meat and veggies and fruit and nuts. I easily clear 2000 calories per day.” So, actually everything she said is pretty much how I handle things. I don’t say, ‘oh I don’t eat that because I’m paleo.’ I say, ‘I don’t like bread’. You know? ‘Why aren’t you eating bread?’ ‘ I’m just not into it.’ You know. ‘Why not?’ ‘Well, when I gave it up, my skin cleared up. My digestive issues cleared up.’ Whatever. Or even, if they are really pissing me off, that I consider bread a processed food because that’s what it is, look at the label. But, I feel like over time, these things become less loud. They are probably still going on in the background, but they become easier to just gloss over. You know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: And really, if you’re happy with what you are doing and the way you are, like, keep at it man! What better way to kind of show people that it works than to live it?
Diane Sanfilippo: I think this stuff really only happens sort of in the beginning, or with people who are like total strangers. Because, if you live your lifestyle, and you’re sort of steadfast in your ways, and you’re, you know, I mean if you’re not a part-time paleo person. Like, I can understand if you eat paleo kind of part time, and sometimes you eat bread and sometimes you eat this or that, it’s harder for people to believe that that’s your chosen way of living or eating. And it doesn’t matter; I don’t care if you don’t eat this way 100% of the time, I don’t think I even eat this way, whatever ‘this way’ means.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Finger quotes.
Liz Wolfe: This is just a diet culture.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: People want to fit you into a box.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and they want to think that like paleo diet or whatever means you’re on it 24/7 and there’s a … I don’t even know. I don’t know. It’s other people’s stuff. It’s their issues of why they want to confront you about your choices. I don’t confront people about their choices. That’s, it’s immature.
Liz Wolfe: Unless they ask you about beans.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s immature for people to do those things and to say those things to you, and like, yeah, if that’s your mom saying it, I’m saying your mom is being immature about it. {laughs} I mean, I think people need to learn it’s not their business, it’s not their body. I think it’s different if someone is concerned. Like, honestly there are people who will be like, wow, you are eating a lot of egg yolks. And you have to understand that that person has a dietary dogma that they feel in their heart what you are doing is unhealthy and they are just genuinely concerned for you. Like, those things exist, right. Like, you know that that is happening in some people’s minds. They are worried, and they don’t understand. They aren’t educated, they haven’t read our books yet, they haven’t learned any of this stuff. They don’t know, and so, you know, I think that’s a different situation than somebody who just like can’t get over the fact that they want to eat cake and you don’t want to eat cake. It’s just their own insecurity that you have made this decision and commitment to yourself in feeling better that they haven’t made. So, I think there are a couple of different possible scenarios there. Taking it too far, again, like, unless they are really concerned that you are not healthy, if you’ve lost a ton of weight that you didn’t need to lose, you know, I don’t know what the other possibilities are, but I think those are two situations where your friends and loved ones might just gen. gen… I can’t even talk. Genuinely be concerned, right, like if you lost more weight than it seems might be healthy, which that would never happen to me {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I know that happens to some people who have trouble keeping some weight on when they go paleo, and that could be a reason why someone’s like, ‘I think you’re taking this a little too far.’ Right? You could see that happening, Liz, like somebody just drops a whole bunch of weight and their loved ones are kind of freaking out.
Liz Wolfe: Sure.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I think. Hmm?
Liz Wolfe: I said ‘sure’.
Diane Sanfilippo: yeah. But I think also, you know, the other issue could be if they just don’t get it. They just don’t get it. They think it’s crazy to never eat bread. But you know what? Several years into this lifestyle, nobody around me questions what I’m doing. I mean, then again, I guess if you write a book that a lot of people end up owning, it might validate your position {laughs} of what you chose, so, I don’t know the effect that that has on what my friends and family think, but I imagine it’s somewhat of a validation in their eyes that, like, ok I must not be that crazy. There must be really sometimes to this thing if this book that I wrote actually, or these books that I’ve written actually are out there and helping lots of people. So, I can’t speak, you know, from the other side of it without that.
Liz Wolfe: People leave you alone because they think you’ve got your book in your pocket and you’re going to hit them over the head with it.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Well, no, it’s like even friends of friends will be like, I was telling someone about XYZ, or my friend just told me they started eating paleo. It’s always like this second or third level connection, where they are like, oh my friend told me they started eating paleo and they have your book. And like, my friend, who isn’t the one eating paleo but their friend is, my friend is always, whoever the friend is, always is surprised. And I’m like, well, I’m not that surprised, but I know how many of these books are getting out there, and I know how much people love it and how much they feel like it’s really helpful. So people are telling all their friends, like, hey this book will really help you. So they are like, oh. I guess there’s something to it. You know what I mean? So, I guess for me on a personal level, I don’t need to defend myself as much is the answer to that. But. I think in time that comes.
Liz Wolfe: This has to be related to, like, market share syndrome, where I feel like this paleo ‘thing’ is encroaching on the mainstream more and more, and you know, it’s just so weird to me, because. Ok, so one time I offered my mother-in-law a bite of asparagus, right, and she goes ‘I don’t like asparagus’. And so she didn’t have a bite. That’s cool, but when I tell somebody I don’t like bread, or I don’t want Easter candy, they’re like “{huff} well, uh”
Diane Sanfilippo: Again, as like the last point. It’s a reminder how not to be. You know?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Every time somebody approaches you in a way that makes you angry or uncomfortable, just kind of soak it in for a minute, and be like, I don’t want to do that to people.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: And just don’t do it to people.
Liz Wolfe: Totally.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: I’m trying to be nicer to my husband, Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh. You’re nice to a lot of people.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m mostly only nice to Scott, so. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Aww. My poor husband.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, you guys have been together for a while.
Liz Wolfe: He’s the best, though. Scott’s the best too.
Diane Sanfilippo: Scott’s really the best.
Liz Wolfe: They’re number 1. Number 1 in my book. Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
4. Understanding carb recommendation. [33:01]
Liz Wolfe: Love you sweetie! Ok. Understanding, this is the next question, we’re moving on. Understanding carb recommendation. “Hi Diane and Liz! This is just a general question referring back to what has been said on previous podcasts. When you mention recommendations for carb intake for different groups of people, are you talking in net carbs, as the low-carb community does, as in, are you counting or not counting fiber? I’m hypothyroid, and tend to do better on a lower carb diet, but have recently been bad about keeping track. I wanted to get back to it, so I wanted to make sure I understand your recommendations because I identified with a few of the people/groups that you were recommending a specific carb range for. Thanks.” Diane, I have, I’m going to jump in and ask you a question real quick.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: I tend to see hypothyroid people do better with a little bit higher carb.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I don’t know what…
Liz Wolfe: This is interesting.
Diane Sanfilippo: She could just be feeling like she does better low carb because it might be harder for her to keep the weight off, and that might just be in terms of like blood sugar regulation and all that. She might do better with it. I mean, if her hypothyroid is managed well, in terms of her medication, I’m going to assume she is taking some sort of thyroid hormone. She might find that she does better with it. It might also be that she just does better with less sugar.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I know a lot of people who are hypothyroid and really just feel better when they eat less sugar, and so that might feel like it’s low carb. I don’t think you have to avoid low carb just because you are hypothyroid. I think if you are hypothyroid and not feeling good and not doing well, then… I actually posted about this yesterday on Facebook. Don’t be an accidental low-carber. Like, some people do it accidentally.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And they don’t realize that it could actually make them more tired to not get more carbs in, especially if they are active, or if they’ve got a thyroid issue that is not well managed. So if her thyroid issue is well managed and she feels good on low carb, I wouldn’t tell her that that is a problem, necessarily.
Liz Wolfe: Right, right.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Totally, yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I speak in terms of total carbs. That’s …
Liz Wolfe: Me too.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s it. I don’t count fiber and subtract, and all of that. I think if you are tracking carb intake, and you’re trying to aim for like a certain, you know, very low carb range, and it’s 30 grams a day, I don’t think 35 a day is going to crush your goal. I don’t think going to 40 a day is going to crush your goal. I think, you know, it’s just a matter of keeping it in that range and watching what your body does if you’re measuring blood ketones, that might be a good way to go to see what’s happening if you’re trying to get into ketosis, but if you’re not trying to get into ketosis, then I don’t think worrying about the net carbs, any of that, is really that critical. But, I mean, I could be wrong. You’re just going to have to see what happens if you count one way or the other what the results are for you probably in those blood markers. I think, I don’t think, I know you can get a blood ketone monitor the same way you can get a blood glucose monitor, just a little finger prick kind of deal, and that’s that.
Liz Wolfe: The whole counting, excuse me, not counting fiber thing. I did that with the whole Atkin’s situation, and it’s really…I don’t want to say it doesn’t make sense, but it kind of doesn’t make sense for what we know now about how fiber is actually digested. It was kind of based on the premise that fiber was not digestible.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: And, fiber actually is digestible, both soluble and insoluble, more so than we may be realized in the past. I used to get really geeked out on soluble fiber because it is kind of food for the gut bacteria, but a lot of different types of insoluble fiber, are, as well, so we actually are digesting these substances, so I just don’t know that subtracting net carbs is really worth whatever, nickel and diming.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it might be worth pointing out, too, that I did get to preview Sarah Ballantyne’s book. I know we’ve had her on the show, before. Unfortunately, I wasn’t on that episode, so we’ll have to bring her back on when her book is closer to releasing and hopefully get to both talk to her, maybe all just get to talk to her this time.
Liz Wolfe: Hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: She’s got extensive, extensive information on fiber in her new book. I know you have a good amount, as well, but hers is like…
Liz Wolfe: Hers is very in-depth.
Diane Sanfilippo: I felt like I needed a nap and a hug after I read that.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I was like, ok. Hold on. Let me read this again. Um, but she’s got tons of information on fiber, and well, everything autoimmune possibly you could ever want to know in the paleo approach. So, anyway. That’s it. Yep. That’s all I have to say about fiber. I mean carbs. And fiber. {laughs}
5. Bone broth and MSG. [38:12]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. Next question. Uh-oh, I lost it. Bone broth and MSG. “Can cooking bone broth at a high temperature create MSG? I have a Crockpot that, on low, boils my bone broth. Not only little bubbles on the outside, but also medium bubbles.” Not medium bubbles!
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: “I read that create MSG by cooking at boiling temperature. I’m concerned. Danielle Walker suggested that I write in.” Danielle is the author of Against all Grain, if folks don’t know. Diane. What do you think?
Diane Sanfilippo: Can you hear me? I’m not muted am I?
Liz Wolfe: No, you’re not.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. Uh, what do I… I love questions like this, because it’s like ‘what do you think about this issue?’ and I’m like, I don’t think about it.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t ever think about this kind of stuff. And I don’t mean that in a like, uh, I’m a nerdy food person, there’s a lot of things I do think about. It’s not like I’ve not considered this once somebody runs this across my desk, but it’s one of those things that I just kind of shoulder shrug at it. I’m like, hmm. Ok. Um, it’s … I think it’s … I don’t think it’s worth being concerned about. I think if you have some kind of really serious known reaction to free glutamic acid that you are aware of, and you don’t feel good when you’re drinking your bone broth that is made in this way, maybe. But I doubt that this is causing problems for people. I seriously, seriously doubt it. I don’t think free glutamic acid that is made or generated from the process of making bone broth is the same as the synthetic form of monosodium glutamate. Like, I just can’t be convinced that those are the same things. It’s almost like…
Liz Wolfe: Kind of like high fructose corn syrup {laughs} not being the same.
Diane Sanfilippo: As anything else? As glucose? Um, or you know, salt like table salt being the same as mineral salt. I mean, I think that’s even, I would actually use table salt if I needed to and really wanted some salt at some point, where as I wouldn’t go sprinkling MSG on my food. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I just, I don’t think it’s an issue. I don’t think people should be concerned about it. I think it’s another one of those, like, minutia, you’re going to cause more harm than good stressing about it.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And, if it’s going to keep you from drinking broth, I definitely don’t think you should even give it another thought. Um, if, you know, if somebody is dealing with the issue, because I always do like to give the, ok, I know that we tell people not to worry about things but then there are those small handful of people who really do have an issue with this stuff. There could be somebody who is really sensitive to it. I would say make broth from things like more of the skin and some tendons and cartilage than the actual bones, so you won’t have the same effect of the minerals from the bones possibly generating that glutamic acid. I don’t think that the same thing will happen. But, in general, I definitely do not worry about this. My bone broth, I cook it in the slow cooker on high for a couple of hours, and then I turn it down to low. It bubbles fairly vigorously, and then reduces somewhat, and I just honestly don’t have a concern about this. I think Chris Kresser may have talked about this on his podcast as well. Feel free to search through some of his archives. I’m going to guess he has a similar take. He tends to have a very balanced, but hey if you are concerned here is a possibility with it, but I just doubt it.
Liz Wolfe: We never, I mean, you can’t ever say that something is impossible.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: I was talking to Amanda, who works with me on the Skintervention Guide, and she had kind of a not so great reaction to Great Lakes gelatin. I do awesome with that stuff, I absolutely love it, but it’s all about who you are, you know, a lot of times how much you’re getting at what point in your life. We talk about this in our workshops. It’s also, like you said, about the terrain. That people can become sensitive to things. People can become sensitive to cabbage, and strawberries, and citrus, and maybe some constituents in bone broth. But it’s not necessarily about something being wrong with the food. Often, it’s how that food is interacting with your internal environment, and like you said, stress can drive leaky gut. We talk about that in the workshops all the time. So. Just don’t worry.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Yup.
6. Bras. Friend or foe? [43:01]
Liz Wolfe: Cool. We’re excited about this next question.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Bras. Friend or foe? “After finding Cave Girl Eats and the Skintervention Guide (love it!) I found the podcast. I can’t wait to get Practical Paleo; thank you for this podcast, ladies. I’m listening from the beginning, and I’m interested in a comment I think Diane said about not wearing a bra all the time.”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Did you say that?
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m not wearing a bra right now!
Liz Wolfe: I’m free boobing too. Whoop, whoop!
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: “I saw a website, can’t remember which, that said underwires can be really bad for women. My question is, would you recommend soft cup bras instead? Have you seen Jockey’s new flexwire on their new fit bras. For some of us with larger breasts, or for me at least, being without a bra for too long can actually get uncomfortable or even painful. Hubby and I started paleo in early October 2013, and we’re both already feeling better. I’m down about 7 pounds, so over the next year as my body gets closer to its more normal weight, my boobs may shrink some, and I’m ok with that. But in the meantime, even on weekends when I’m not going anywhere, I need to wear my bra part of the day for comfort.” This is what husbands are for! Just have him hold them up.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} I would say wear ….
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh Liz!
Liz Wolfe: I know, I know! I would say wear … and number … actually I’m going to throw another thing in here in a second. But I would say wear no bra when you’re comfortable with that, and the most minimal bra you can get away with the rest of the time. I do think…I do place a fairly high priority on lymph flow. I do a lot of dry brushing, which I think is actually a really good idea if you are wearing bras a lot of the time. I think dry brushing is a really good idea. And that’s in the Skintervention Guide a little bit, so if she’s got that, she can read about that too, so I think that’s good. Wear it as little as possible, and also watch your alignment. I talk about, now I feel like Katy Bowman from Aligned and Well all the time, we had her on the podcast a while back and she talks a lot about proper alignment, how to stand, how to move, and I think a lot of times women, especially women with larger breasts, tend to have some negative posture patterns that can affect them just from top to tail. So, keep alignment in mind, as well. Because a lot of times, we walk to keep our boobs in certain spots. We stand to keep the bra straps wherever the bra straps are, and all that. So. Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I tend to do like a … {laughs} I laugh at myself because I feel like it’s the approach you kind of take before you wear a bra, where you have an undershirt, or like a fitted like I’ll wear an athletic lulu tank top that doesn’t have a bra in it, and it’s not meant to be supportive but it’s kind of fitted.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I’ll kind of wear that, like underneath whatever else, a long sleeve T-shirt or sweatshirt just around the house. Not all the time, but, you know if I want something that feels like it’s sort of support, but it’s not a bra and it’s not just a big T-shirt. I tend to wear like a fitted tank top underneath a lot of my clothes anyway, just when I’m hanging out around the house and working and whatnot. I don’t tend to wear just like a big T-shirt. But I’m just kind of trying to imagine if you do have a larger chest and you’re just kind of wearing really lose clothes versus, you know, it might be more comfortable to put on some kind of fitted tank top or something to just be around the house versus a bra, so that’s one option. And then, the bras that I do wear don’t have wires. And that’s something I think I probably started that transition when I was flying a lot in the beginning a few years ago, when I started teaching seminars. I remember sitting on an airplane, being, like I am so uncomfortable. Why am I so uncomfortable? This thing is digging into me, just sitting there. I wasn’t twisted weird, I just sitting on the plane, and I was like that’s it. I’m done with this. I had to go take off the bra in the bathroom or whatever it was because it was so annoying, and from then on I went… I’ve been wearing ones from the GAP. They are a wireless, like, favorite wireless bra or something like that. I think they’re super comfortable, I think they’re flattering. Pretty much the most comfortable type of bra you could wear. I just don’t know what that means for those ladies who’ve got more to support, because I’m not one of those ladies. I’ve never really been in that situation. So, not sure about that aspect, but those are the ones that I like. And I do think a bra without wires is probably a good idea for a number of reasons.
Liz Wolfe: Agreed. Alright.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
7. Losing ground to gain more complete health. [47:55]
Liz Wolfe: Let’s do the last question. Losing ground to gain more complete health. “Hi ladies! Sorry for a heavier question that is a bit different than what you usually get. I’ve been eating paleo for a few years. This past year, I’ve been working on eating as nutrient dense a diet as possible, getting good sleep, crossfitting responsibly, etc. These changes have produced good results. I lost fat and gained a lot of muscle. My skin and hair look the best they ever have. I have more energy, slightly less anxiety, etc. I feel healthy physically for the first time in my life. But here’s the problem. Mentally, I’m not doing so great. I have a lot of issues from my past, sexual abuse and all that comes with it, that I need to resolve. I’m 30 years old, and I think I’m now mature enough to realize I need help, or else the rest of my life will not be anywhere near as good as it could be. I have a long history with eating disorders, disordered eating, body image issues. I actually have body dysmorphic disorder, which means it truly negatively affects a lot of areas of functioning. I tend to stay home as much as possible to avoid being seen by other people. Anyway, I’m telling you this background so you can hopefully answer my question having all the facts. I have the opportunity to go to a treatment center for one to two months that deals with past trauma and eating disorders. It’s a small group setting right on the ocean with tons of support and community, which I desperately need. It sounds great in many ways, and I think it has the potential to change my life when nothing else has worked. But of course, the food situation is not even close to ideal. I’m currently trying to get more information on what exactly they serve and how closely they monitor what you eat. I no longer have a clinical eating disorder thanks to paleo. I’m a healthy weight, and eat quite a bit due to my activity level, but I do obsess about what I eat way too much. The thought of being forced to eat pizza and ice cream and other food from cans and packages is just … ugh. I think I’ll develop anorexia if those are my only choices. I’m hoping if I tell them I have food allergies to gluten, dairy, soy, and corn, it will help, but I don’t know if they will buy that. I have no food allergies, and even if they do, I know the food will not be even close to paleo. They also have nutrition counseling, which I’m sure advocates a high carb, low fat Standard American Diet. So, with all that to ask, would you go if you had to give up eating real food for one to two months? I feel like the horrible nutrition will make me feel sick physically after eating clean for so long, and all the hard work I’ve put into becoming healthy will have been for nothing. On the other hand, I don’t know if this is my disordered thinking coming into play. Maybe none of this is a huge deal in the big picture, so I should just suck it up and eat what they serve. What do you guys think? I respect your opinions very much, so I appreciate any thoughts or insight you may have. My therapist is a vegan, so she is no help. Ha.” I have so much compassion for this question, Diane. I think you and I both have…
Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I think is really, like, interesting thing and I just thought of when you read that last sentence.
Liz Wolfe: Hmm?
Diane Sanfilippo: If she was looking at going into this center as a vegetarian, no one would ever question that they would ever try and serve her meat. But because she doesn’t want to eat processed foods o