Remember – If you’re enjoying these podcasts, please leave us a review in iTunes. Thanks!
Upcoming events!
Pittsburgh, PA: Friday, 11/1, 5-7pm – Penguin Bookshop book signing – RSVP here.
Rochester, NY: Saturday, 11/2, 2-4pm – Barnes & Noble Pittsford book signing – RSVP here.
Topics:
1. Upcoming events for 21-Day Sugar Detox book. [7:27]
2. Body image [10:13]
3. Health and wellness is the goal. [20:00]
4. No judging of others [28:23]
5. Self-love [37:35]
6. Unattainable levels of “beauty and perfection” [44:37]
7. Shifting our perceptions [49:28]
Links
Upcoming events!
Click here to download this episode as an MP3.
The episodes are currently available in iTunes, Stitcher & Blog Talk Radio.
Show sponsors:
Liz Wolfe: Hey dudes! Welcome to episode 111 of the Balanced Bites podcast. Yes, I just said hey dudes. Hey Dude! {ber-ber-der-da-der}. You know what I’m talking about?
Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I was thinking of?
Liz Wolfe: What.
Diane Sanfilippo: When you said that… the wrong show. I was thinking of Salute Your Shorts.
Liz Wolfe: No.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Right up there with Hey Dude, though, for sure. For sure. {singing} “It’s a little wild, and a little strange” Is that the right song.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know it.
Liz Wolfe: It doesn’t matter. So now that we have 2 people still listening. Once again, welcome to episode 111 of the Balanced Bites podcast. That has to be, in some way, auspicious. 1-1-1. I don’t know.
Diane Sanfilippo: If we get to 6-6-6, I might hurt myself.
Liz Wolfe: We’ll just skip that one. Like, you know, they skip the 13th floor on buildings.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, should we skip 113? Nah, nah.
Liz Wolfe: We should have skipped 13, probably. We should have just stopped at 12!
Diane Sanfilippo: We should have stopped right there! {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Oh, boy. So, a reminder about our lovely sponsors, who we absolutely love. Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. Make sure to check the blog post for a special deal at Pete’s Paleo. And also, please vote. The voting is closing, I think, here in a couple of days. Is it even going to be open as of aired? When this airs?
Diane Sanfilippo: I am not aware of the dates, but.
Liz Wolfe: Okay. I believe it closes on November 1, but I could be wrong.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh that’s; well that’s Friday, so it closes the day after this airs.
Liz Wolfe: That’s Friday? Okay very good. Go vote for our friend’s Pete’s Paleo; vote for me, vote for Diane. You know, vote for all of us in the Paleo Magazine annual best of survey. We’ll put a link to the survey in the blog post for the podcast. But please go and support our sponsors, and support us if you are so inclined. My Skintervention Guide is nominated for best E-book. Diane, you’re in there. The podcast was in there, duh!
Diane Sanfilippo: The podcast was nominated. That must be a mistake, or somebody wrote it in! It’s like a Mickey Mouse write in.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} We got written in.
Diane Sanfilippo: We got written in.
Liz Wolfe: Oh man! I voted for…I’m not even going to tell people who I voted for last cycle.
Diane Sanfilippo: You shouldn’t tell. Let’s not get political.
Liz Wolfe: No, let’s not do that. Gary Johnson. Anyway.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Other sponsor Chameleon Cold-Brew, coffee evolved. I’m sipping on a little mocha brew right now. Delicious! Also visit the blog post for a special deal; 25% off your order of Chameleon Cold-Brew. And, we have another sponsor here jumping on board pretty soon; we’ll have a great offer from them too. They will be on board, I believe, starting next week. Correct?
Diane Sanfilippo: An excellent complement to our current sponsors!
Liz Wolfe: Aha! Complement with an “e” or an “I”?
Diane Sanfilippo: Ohhhhhh…..
Liz Wolfe: Both.
Diane Sanfilippo: You’re the writer! I forget. I think it’s an “e”.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. Because when it is with an “I” its like personal.
Diane Sanfilippo: That means you’re saying something nice to someone.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. Do you have anything nice to say about me today?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} No.
Liz Wolfe: Stop it. Alright, well, we have
Diane Sanfilippo: I thought of something not nice immediately.
Liz Wolfe: I knew it. I knew it! So I don’t really have any updates right now, except for the last 30 minutes before we started recording, I was chasing guinea fowl up the street trying to keep them from running into our neighbors property.
Diane Sanfilippo: I have a text to verify that.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: If anybody doesn’t believe it. Maybe I’ll take a screenshot of my text message! {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Please do! This is my life now. And it’s lovely. Other than that, we’re trying to figure out which cows we want to put on our pasture next year. So, we’re thinking aheady-coo, as skyland…{laughs} highland Scottish, Scottish highland cattle, maybe a dexter, maybe a jersey cow. This is for real. I live here. This is what I do.
Diane Sanfilippo: I..I. I feel like such a city slicker, it’s ridiculous.
Liz Wolfe: City Slicker!
Diane Sanfilippo: And I’m not. I mean, I’m really not.
Liz Wolfe: You are a little bit, though.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m really not.
Liz Wolfe: You’re always….
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, New York City stresses me out.
Liz Wolfe: Me too. I must agree with that. Very much. So what are your updates.
Diane Sanfilippo: My updates; okay. {laughs} I tried to convince Liz just before we started recording that I had something interesting to say that is pop-culture related, and she did not believe me.
Liz Wolfe: What did I say? word for word. “Doubt it.”
Diane Sanfilippo: Doubt it.
Liz Wolfe: Doubt it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Um, no. I mean it’s not that interesting. But, I’m going to say this. I have been watching Breaking Bad. I feel relevant watching that, I have to say. Although, I am aware I am a little bit late to the party. But, I really like being able to watch many, many episodes in a row.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because when I decide to sit down and just veg the heck out, it’s pretty intense. Like, minimum 2-hour commitment; usually 3 or more. So, anyway. Between kind of working, finishing up the 21-Day Sugar Detox Cookbook and, I don’t know, whatever else I do. Sleep. Not really. Eat and drink Chameleon Cold-Brew. Yeah, I think I’m on episode; well, we. Scott and I have been watching. It’s now, maybe the end of like episode; no season 3. We’re finishing up season 3. So if anybody has watched it or is watching it, like, just no spoilers.
Liz Wolfe: Go spoil the ending right now on her Facebook page.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, no. You know, but here’s the thing. I started watching it because people didn’t give away spoilers on Facebook, or {laughs} I could call Facebook “or on the news”, because
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I don’t really watch news.
Liz Wolfe: The 24-hour Facebook news cycle.
Diane Sanfilippo: Exactly. I mean, I really find out a lot of things on Facebook. No, but people were really excited about the finale. They said it was really great. They were like, hey Dexter writers, you know, take a clue from the Breaking Bad team, they know how to end a series, or something like that. So, I was like, alright, if this is going to end with a bang, then I’m going to get into it. And it’s definitely slow. Some episodes are pretty slow. Have you watched it at all?
Liz Wolfe: No, I got like three-quarters of the way through the first episode ever, and I was like, this is just gratuitous. And I couldn’t do it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Uh, I said that {laughs} pretty much every episode.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m like, seriously? More people have to die in a bloodbath, like right now? {laughs} But, I don’t know, we’re into it, and you know, it’s a little escape so I’m enjoying that, so that’s pretty much in. You know, in between Housewives and whatnot.
Liz Wolfe: Right. Yeah.
1. Upcoming events for 21-Day Sugar Detox book. [7:27]
Diane Sanfilippo: Um, what else. So events; I gave a quick update before the podcast last time that I kind of had to add in there because I realized I forgot to tell people, but by the time this airs, I will still have an event Friday in Pittsburg; its actually Sewickley is the name of the town, Pennsylvania, at Penguin Book Shop. Its the same place I was at last year talking about and signing books when Practical Paleo came out, so that will be from 5 to 7. And then, I’ll be scarfing dinner, and quickly driving to Rochester {laughs}. Saturday will be in Rochester at the Pittsford, not to be confused with Pittsburg, but the Pittsford Barnes and Noble. It’s a big Barnes and Noble near Wegmans, so come to the book signing and then go have some yummy food. That’s where you and I actually stopped, Liz, where we went in and got Nori Sushi, remember that?
Liz Wolfe: I remember.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh wow. I just slurred my “s”.
Liz Wolfe: {snort}
Diane Sanfilippo: So that will be 2 to 4 p.m. on Saturday. And you can RSVP from the sidebar on BalancedBites.com. It’s just nice for us to get a headcount so we make sure we have enough chairs, and all of that. But they are free events. So that’s it.
Liz Wolfe: Very Good. Oh I just remembered…
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh! And…
Liz Wolfe: Oh, go. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Well I forget what day it is sometimes today, and then I forget the fact that this will air, you know, in a few more days, so we’re recording on Monday, this will air on Thursday, and my book will have just come out 2 days ago, so for anybody who has not been paying attention {laughs} The 21-Day Sugar Detox released on Tuesday so please, I don’t know, go to your local book store, Barnes and Noble, grab it on Amazon. Of course, anytime you can buy it in a store, greatly appreciate it. Really not sure what is going to happen. Hoping we can make the Times list with this book, but it’s a little tough at this time of year. Sales get really weird, as I learned last year with Practical Paleo, so if it doesn’t happen, then I’ll let everybody know and kind of talk about getting a push for January. You know, it’s just a cool thing for the community, I think. At this point it’s; I don’t know, its not really a personal issue for me, its just I think its cool and exciting that, you know, this type of way and eating and program can get a little bit more notoriety and it’s a little easier to get some media outlets to pay attention to things when you have that little tagline on your book.
Liz Wolfe: Mmm. I’m using your tagline for my book.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Awesome.
Liz Wolfe: Forward by: The New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Uh. Creepy.
Liz Wolfe: Thank you for doing that. Okay. Very good.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright! What are we talking about.
2. Body image [10:13]
Liz Wolfe: We are talking about…I think we’re going to talk about body image today. Which sounds terrible. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, and it also sounds a little bit like it’s just a lady topic, but its not.
Liz Wolfe: No, it’s not.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, even if we’re going to talk mostly about the female side, I think it’s probably a valuable episode for the guys to listen to, whether the guys have, you know, some similar issues going on because it’s entirely possible, or you just kind of want to understand the ladies in your life a little bit better. That might be a reason to check this one out.
Liz Wolfe: I have a lot of feelings on body image and the shoulds and the …
Diane Sanfilippo: Do you even go to this school? {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: Sorry.
Liz Wolfe: That was obscure, but I got it.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I have a lot of feelings.
Liz Wolfe: I have a lot of feelings. I have a lot of feelings on this, but I’m not always so articulate with extemporaneous speaking, I’ve said so before. You’re much better with that. I’ll try and jump in and be at least marginally eloquent, but this is tough. I mean, I have so many thoughts on why we feel the way we do about ourselves, you know, social… man. I don’t know. You’re going to have to kind of start us out on this one and I’m going to have to jump in, because I’m just irked. I’m irked that we even have to talk about this at this point, that we’re so not okay with ourselves.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think, I think the thing is that a lot of the women, primarily we’re, you know, going to talk about women, and just the folks in the paleo community in general. So, we’ve got a couple of different groups of people who find paleo. And every time I do an interview, I end up talking with whoever the journalist is about how interesting I find I that while this paleo movement really started to spread a lot because of Crossfit and the influence of Robb Wolf on Crossfit and how quickly Crossfit grew and how paleo kind of grew with that, there’s that side of things, but then we also obviously have the whole general health and healing from things like autoimmunity side of things, right, and I think that is kind of, in a lot of ways I know you and I feel a little bit more passionate about the healing and health side of things.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, as much as we both love and are slightly indebted to Crossfit for introducing us to this whole way of eating, and I still am an active Crossfitter, in terms of what motivates me, its not the people looking to lose that last 5 pounds, you know, to teach what I’m teaching. So, anyway, I got myself completely off track here. Oh no, here’s what I wanted to say. So, I think these two populations, if we’re going to look at them as kind of divided even though they are not completely exclusive, mutually exclusive, the Crossfit community, there tend to be a lot of 20 and 30-something females, right? And you and I fit into that mold. And I think that this brewing and, like, slinging of certain things that people will say from possibly some of the younger crowd gets mixed in with some of the older crowd. And you were just saying, “why are we even talking about this? It’s really getting annoying”. And I think as we get older, as women especially, and probably men and women, as we get older it does become less of a conversation. It will still be out there. It will always be out there, but as we become more comfortable in our own skin, the conversation quiets down. Because, as women especially, we become less critical of other women, and I think that is where a lot of this stems from.
Liz Wolfe: I feel like we become less critical of other women, but I don’t think that, you know, Weight Watcher’s demographic or the dieter’s demographic just kind of drops off it at 40, you know. I think…
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it’s… yeah, okay.
Liz Wolfe: You know what I’m saying? Not…just self hatred. Just, I don’t know. I’ve spent decades doing it, and I’m sick of it, and I want everybody else to be sick of it too. But.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, so I think it’s come up in this community partially because, as I said, the Crossfit crowd gets really focused on aesthetics and performance.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I love the focus on performance, I love the focus on strength and strong women, and a little bit of it is inevitable, that we will see very strong, fit, ripped, lean, whatever females, and you know there is always going to be that element of aspirational whatnot, you know. Its like, we see this, and we’re like, wow, I wish I could look like that. But hopefully we can help talk people through to a place where it’s, you know, I hope for my own body to just be the best that it is capable of being based on where I’m at and the effort I have to put into it and not morph it to something else because its mine and this is what its going to be. Like, I think there’s that limitation, you know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I think what you were saying, that self-hatred, I know you have said some stuff about all that at our seminars before about, you know, those days where you would do any kind of diet just to get skinny, right?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Oh yeah. Red Bull and cigarettes diet. Adkins. Weight Watcher’s. I just didn’t want my thighs to touch in the middle. That type of thing. We all have that history. That is fed into us from the time we’re little. It’s a social thing that we feel we should look one way or like somebody else or whatever. I think it has gotten worse, now, with this 24-hour news cycle; 24-hour Facebook news cycle where we are constantly bombarded by the only people that you really can cover 24 hours a day, which is like, the Kardashians and the Housewives or whatever, which I certainly enjoy here and there. But its just like, I feel like the question what we need to be talking about is where are these inputs coming from, and how do they start mattering to us to the degree that all of a sudden we are not looking at ourselves and being happy and worrying about nourishing ourselves and we start to worry about what we look like, what other people look like to a degree that just consumes our lives. I don’t know.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think what’s really interesting is, it’s not something I talk about a lot because actually, you know, I’ve had it on my mind to write a blog post about this, and I have to dig up some photos in order to do that, and for those of us who are probably over the age of, I don’t know, 26 or 27, much of our younger years is not currently documented on Facebook {laughs} so I don’t have a lot of pictures; I don’t have any pictures from college or any of that from Facebook. So I have to…
Liz Wolfe: Thank God, right? {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Uh, honestly, yes.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Very glad about that. But so, here’s my thing. I actually don’t think I noticed in the same way that I do now the type of body awareness and, you know, potential for body image issues that I have now and, you know, have worked through over the last several years very, very significantly. I did not have them when I was 30 pounds heavier than I am now, because I gained weight in college gradually. My body puts weight on very gradually all over the place. It’s a little bit scary for me if it happens, because it’s almost like I don’t realize it because my clothes don’t just like immediately not fit. Well, I mean when you’re wearing stretchy pants that have 4-way stretch {laughs} they fit for a long time, but I digress. So, I didn’t actually have these negative self-thoughts until I lost weight. And I think that’s a really common thing, but I think it’s not the only way. I remember looking in the mirror and being many sizes bigger than I am now, and feeling like I looked pretty good. So something happened to me, you know, something really changed for me when I lost the weight, and all of a sudden changed what the goal was with how my body was supposed to look somehow. I just think it’s a really interesting sort of paradox, I guess, where I was heavier and not as self conscious and then kind of lost the weight and got there. So you were talking about not having your thighs touch; many years after I was heavier, I lost the weight and started working out a ton. I’ve talked about the adrenal fatigue issue many times, and at that same time I was at a weight where; I was probably one of the lightest weights I’ve been at in any sort of recent memory. My thighs did not touch, because if that happens to you, you remember the moment when you realize it. But, I lost my period and my chest shrunk; my breasts shrunk like drastically, and so then I went to the other end of the extreme where, you know, in a moment I could feel really excited about the fact that I had visible abs, and the next moment really sad that part of what I felt was, you know, part of my femininity was really gone. And so, you know, there was that whole issue, too, which I think comes up a lot with female athletes that kind of walking the line there.
3. Health and wellness is the goal. [20:00]
Liz Wolfe: I think its worth pointing out right now that we are not putting down any one body type or working to elevate another type. Every single person on this planet has a different predisposition. Everyone has a different body type. We have friends that are naturally very lean and healthy. We have friends that are curvy and healthy. We have friends that are heavier and healthy. You know, the list goes on. And when we say heavier, that is not a pejorative term. That is a term that is relative. It is relative to maybe what you were saying at one point you were heavier, and at one point you were lighter. That is just a number on the scale. Some people are heavier than I. Some people are lighter than I. It just doesn’t matter. And we may not speak to something that is relevant to every single body type during this podcast, so please nobody feel disparaged or as if we’re targeting you in some way because you are lean or because you look a certain way that maybe we got to that point and we weren’t healthy at that point. You know?
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: I think our overwhelming concern, like we said, is health. If you are menstruating, if you are feeling good, if you are on a journey and you feel like you are accumulating information and making progress, that is what is important.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: There are people who write into us and say, hey, I’m stalled, I want to lose more weight, and most of the time we’ll say, you know, ease up on yourself. You may not need to lose this weight. And we’ve also gotten people that have kind of called us out and said, hey you need to stop telling people to stop trying to lose weight. Maybe they need to; maybe something is out of balance. Whatever. I mean, there’s a huge spectrum here. We’re not going to address the whole deal.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’d be willing to bet that our voices at that moment are a welcome change from everything else they’ve already told themselves. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I would hope so. I mean, I don’t know. One thing… {sigh}… man, this whole looking good naked thing; this is probably even more of a tangent. But, there is only one person who needs to think you look good naked. And that’s not another woman, it’s not the people at your gym, because let’s be honest; we basically, a lot of us work out, we might as well be naked. I mean these clothes are ridiculous.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I remember the days I used to go to spin class in my old basketball shorts and a baggy T-shirt.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I know.
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know when I got naked working out. But it happened at some point. But there’s only one person that needs to think you look good naked, and it’s not even your significant other! It’s you.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: Seriously, get naked, turn on Kenny Loggins, and do a little dance in the mirror to Footloose and try not to like yourself.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Really. You can feel sexy, and you’re allowed to feel sexy, or you’re allowed to feel like you look great no matter where you line up to whatever social ideal is the plate of the day. And if you feel like you look good naked, then own it, and everybody else is going to all of a sudden think you are the sexiest damn person on the plant.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s a really good point. I think, you know, again, not to just play the male/female card, but I’ve noticed a lot more men are able to do that, sometimes for reasons I’m like, I don’t understand why that guy thinks he’s all that, but good for him! Because he has the confidence, and that is what other people, men and women, find attractive.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: And charismatic and even, you know, sexy about someone else, it’s that confidence, right?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not a certain body type. Because, you see people all over the place who are in healthy, happy relationships of every different type of body, and that’s not what really matters at the end of the day. It’s that you feel good in it, and that you are making choices for yourself. If you’re not feeling good about yourself, and you’re not also making choices every day that contribute to your feeling better about yourself, then, you know, people can’t really help you feel better until you make those choices. So, like, kind of one tangible example of this is a lot of times; you know, this stuff sounds, I think it sounds maybe silly or vain or whatever, but hey this is the body image issue, so, some of us, we have our own weird little things. Sometimes I feel like I’m looking just super tired. Like {laughs} I joke that I look like someone punched me in the face because I feel like under my eyes, so dark.
Liz Wolfe: You look rested means you’ve had collagen.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’ve been drinking lots of broth and eating lots of gummies. Or, you know, along those lines too, not getting enough sleep or being stressed and gaining some body fat around the midsection as we know is a cortisol stress response. And rather than feel badly about myself when I see that, I recognize that that is a product of certain choices, and its just a matter of making some changes to affect those choices, but I don’t look at myself and hate myself because of it. Does that make sense? Like, when you get to a certain point, like, you know I don’t think there’s….I think there’s a real difference between self-love and self-acceptance and being able to look at something and saying, “okay I want to work on this”, you know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I mean, sure.
Diane Sanfilippo: We’re not saying that people shouldn’t ever, you know, have a goal of losing weight. Like, that’s definitely not what we’re saying.
Liz Wolfe: Right. But there are many fine lines here we’re going to talk about it. Like, its a razor thin edge between, hey I want to accumulate more information about how my body works, I feel like I could be healthier, and I’m going to work towards this goal, and its not going to consume my life, versus worry about “that last 5 pounds” every day of your life, judging yourself because your right thigh is bigger than your left thigh and you don’t fit into your prom dress from high school. What last 5 pounds? Like, can we realize, quickly, that these standards are completely arbitrary? What is this “last 5 pounds”. The last 5 pounds before you have zero body fat? Or the last 5 pounds before you fit into your prom dress? Or the last 5 pounds before you know, you’re butt doesn’t jiggle as much when you naked dance to Kenny Loggins? I don’t know.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know what it is. There’s just no standard that we can hold ourselves to because this is so individual and I think the last question at the end of the day is, are you happy? I don’t care what you look like. Are you miserable on your journey? Are you enjoying the journey? Where are you in that “are you happy” spectrum. And if you are just dead miserable all the time because you don’t feel good about yourself, it’s probably not because you need to lose that last 5 pounds. It’s probably because you need to get your head right.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, I think the other point that I’m kind of reminded of here with the, you know, the idea of “are you happy”, that it’s not just about that ultimate physical appearance of that last 5 pounds. You know, part of it is the projecting of what we expect of ourselves onto other people, what we expect of them onto them. But this idea that there is just like one way to look….ok, I totally just lost my train of thought.
Liz Wolfe: I know, this is tough. P.S. I’m not trying to be an asshole here, because I’ve been through this journey.
Diane Sanfilippo: We have so much to say {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: We have so much to say. I just, like, I want everyone so badly to be happy and to let go of arbitrary standards because we all have these stories. Like, we have these sad stories. And Diane, you… I told mine a million times at the Balanced Bites workshops. I smoked cigarettes and, you know, drank Red Bull. I was in this dark place and I wanted this of my body, and blah blah blah. We all have these stories, and one day I was finally like, why have I wasted so much of my life beating myself up or seeking something that was never enriching my life in any way.
Diane Sanfilippo: The thing that I was totally like on a tangent and just forgot what I was going to say because I’m slightly sleep deprived {laughs} finishing a book.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
4. No judging of others [28:23]
Diane Sanfilippo: You don’t know where someone else is on their journey when you see them and make a judgment on them based on how they look. And that is the point that I think is one of the most important things because I think this issue, it is a two sided issue, right? Part of it is, you know, people judging each other based on how they look, and then the image we have of ourselves.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I think you were getting into a lot of really good stuff on the image we have of ourselves, and I think there is….I don’t think that these are separate things because I think the more you let go of your judgment of how someone else looks the better you feel about yourself.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Does that makes sense? Because I think that when you get to a place where you realize that this person in front of you, you don’t know what their struggle is. You don’t know if they’ve already lost 100 pounds, or if they’ve been trying to gain 30 pounds for however long. Like, we just don’t know their struggle. We don’t know their situation or where they are in their journey. We don’t know their health status. And, of course, there are some people you do know about, right? But a lot of times, people make these calls, you know this is something that I think, not this past year at Paleo FX but the year before, I remember we came back from it and somebody made a comment somewhere on the internet, who knows I’m not trying to give more validity to it, but I know that our friend Laura Schoenfeld ended up writing a post about paleo women being p-h-a-t, phat. And it was because somebody else had commented about how the men at the convention all seemed like lean, or whatever, and the women didn’t all look as lean or whatever as this person thought they should. And, you know, it really kind of struck a chord, because we were like, first of all, you don’t even know how all of us found paleo. You don’t know everybody’s journey. You don’t know what we’re each going through at that time, and you know, I think you and I have seen this too, women’s bodies tend to be a bit more sensitive to all of those hormonal and situational changes. Again, I’m not trying to say that men have it easy, but you know what? Testosterone does make it easier to lose body fat. That is true. We know that is true. Every woman who has ever been on some kind of diet with their husband {laughs} knows that it’s true. And so, you know, I think there is a difference in perspective and judgment that gets thrown around sometimes, and I think that really starts to feed into things, and it kind of just makes the situation worse.
Liz Wolfe: I agree. And now, constantly, sorry playing the devil’s advocate, but…okay, here’s the great thing about the internet. We’re all free to say whatever the heck we want. If we lived in fricking China, we might not be able to do that. so, it’s actually amazing that people are exercising their freedom to say crap on the internet. I think it’s great. But, the way we take things and the way we internalize them; like, why does not being lean have to be an insult. Like, why does it have to be a bad thing? Why do we automatically react to that as if we’ve been insulted, you know? By somebody’s opinion of body composition. Does that make sense? I’m just like.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: And recent events where we’ve seen some pretty hurtful things get some traction in the community. Things like those types of comments. I’ve kind of forced myself to sit down and try and think of this in a new way. Our friend Haley Mason from the Food Lover’s actually put up a really eloquent statement on Facebook. I could not have said it better than she did. Going through, you know, her history with body image issues and how she’s healed her relationship with food and how she’s moving forward without this attitude of self judgment and she believes other’s should do the same. I thought it was beautifully stated, and it also reminded me that every standard we hold each other to, every standard we hold ourselves to, and the reason that we react so strongly to certain words, as we do, is because we still, we still, even though we know we shouldn’t and we claim we don’t, we still hold up some kind of social standard, meaningless social standard, as an ideal. And the truth is an ideal doesn’t exist. It just doesn’t.
Liz Wolfe: Here, here.
Diane Sanfilippo: Here, here!
Liz Wolfe: No, it’s so true! I mean, if we think about, you know, every body type of our friends, you the friends that we have in common, and how different they are but uniquely beautiful and capable they are of whatever it is that they are doing, I think that is the best representation of what we need to understand about how to feel good about ourselves.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I think; you know, I think there are a lot of people who look up to all of us. And, you know, I love that there’s a lot of women out there who see you and I, although we may think they are crazy, no I’m kidding. Or, you know, folks like Michelle from Nom Nom Paleo or Stacy from Paleo Parents, you know Diana Rogers, some of the parents out there, and roll models for all different reasons and I think that is great because I think we are kind of showing that, you know, leaders in this movement don’t come in one size and shape package, and I think that we do have something to offer, and I don’t think…I think its great if people kind of are, you know, some picture of what certain people believe to be a goal for themselves. And I think it’s really important to have a great representation otherwise, as well. I know you and I have talked about going to other health and nutrition conferences, and just how, you know, the pressure feels less, for some reason.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And, you know, there’s a much better representation of different ages and different people at different places on their journey and we don’t feel like people are all looking around and picking each other apart. I think it really just requires that every person recognizes that, you know, we’re all apart of that. You know, whether we’re contributing opinion, voiced publicly on a blog, which we are allowed to do. But I think it’s important to have a consideration before you just throw out some possibly really hurtful words. I really do, you know.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, we all get to say whatever we want to say on our blogs, but when you make a sweeping statement about other people in your community, I think its a little bit callous. You know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Yes. That’s, yeah. That’s a good word, callous. You just have to be ready to take the backlash.
Diane Sanfilippo: Other people know collectively in general who you are talking about. Even if there is not one specific person called out, they can catch a net and maybe catch 10 or 20 people that you might be talking about. You know?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. And now we’re getting very specific about one particular thing.
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I mean, it’s happened all over the place. You know, when people were talking about this for the last couple of years. You know, and it really kind of started when the Ancestral Health Symposium kind of went down a couple of years ago, the first one, and everybody finally met each other. I mean, I just think its fun
Liz Wolfe: This community is so small that “everyone“ finally met each other. Like, this is a baby movement.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right. No, but you know what I mean… but the vegetarian movement, right, started many, many years ago.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: And that community was so much bigger. And the paleo community, in terms of having voices. Look, if people thing that I’m one of the leading voices in the paleo community, that’s how I know it’s still really small, you know.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m serious. I’m really serious.
Liz Wolfe: It’s true.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because, you know, I wrote this book a year ago. I’ve been studying nutrition for many years, but really haven’t been in paleo for, like, 20 years, you know what I mean? So that’s how you know. It is still pretty small, you know.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So I mean I do think that is valid, and to be quite honest, its one of the reasons why I haven’t wanted to attend certain events. I don’t feel like dealing with that. I don’t feel like dealing with….just, you know, being out there sometimes. And most often it’s really just because I’m trying to finish a book. But, you know, sometimes it’s like, you know what, I just don’t feel like dealing with it right now. The possible criticism and the judgment and all of that. And I think I’ve come to a place where, again, I think it’s really important when it comes to these body image issues, your side of the coin that you’ve been really talking a lot about is that self-acceptance, self-love, and dropping the judgements of ourselves, and I think that is what eventually translates into healing the issue. You know what I mean?
5. Self-love [37:35]
Liz Wolfe: Yes, and let me clarify what I, when we talk about advocating self love and all that, I was talking in an E-mail to Sarah Ballantyne and Stacy from Paleo Parents and a couple of other people, a couple of other, you know, blogger and activist authors in this movement, and I said I don’t love my thighs in spite of my thighs; I don’t love them despite what they look like because they are strong. I don’t love them in spite of myself; I’m not getting over perceived imperfections. Like, I’m as much as a badass as I allow myself to be. I love my thighs because I love my thighs. I’m not making BS sideways apologies, like, oh, you know, my thighs have cottage cheese on them but they let me walk and lift things and I’ve come to terms with it and now I love myself. No. I love myself because I love myself. There is no in spite of, despite, there is no condition attached to that. My thighs are badass. You know what I’m saying?…. There are no conditions attached to that. And that’s part of the reason…
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: This is a new thing for me. I mean, you can go back on my blog and find posts of me, like, there’s one where I wore tiny shorts to work out in for the first time, and I was just terrified.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve read that post.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah! I mean, this is a new thing for me. This is in the last couple of months where I realized, like, I’m a part of this movement, and I’m going to, you know, put some stakes down here. I’m going to figure this out.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, do you think though that part of that is because you’ve been a bit isolated. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. Like, because you’ve stepped out of a more urban area, and we haven’t been on the road teaching for a while so we haven’t really been in front of tons of people, but do you think that getting out of that, you know, judgment firing zone has allowed you to come to that place where you’re like, eff all the noise, and
Liz Wolfe: I honestly don’t think so, but I understand why that would seem possible, but what it is is since the Skintervention Guide has been released, I feel like, I go to the point where this self-doubt was screaming so loudly in my brain just worrying about, you know, people judging what I look like or not thinking my skin is good enough to be trying to help people with their skin and whatever, that it got to such a, I don’t know what the word would be, fever-pitch, like it was just this noise in my head constantly that I finally had to just say, Stop! This is not going to be how it’s going to be for me. And it was the most freeing feeling where I finally was like, eff you brain! This is not what I want to be wasting time on, at all. Does that make sense?
Diane Sanfilippo: It does, and I feel like.
Liz Wolfe: I just had to shut it up! And you’re right, I’m alone, so I don’t have distractions.
Diane Sanfilippo: I fee like it’s an easy thing for us.
Liz Wolfe: Like I have to deal with it.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s an easy thing for us to tell our friends, you know, or to counsel other’s on, because I feel like we’ve probably sort of had that conversation in one way or another before the Skintervention Guide came out, where it was like, you know, should I do this? Is this going to be okay? And I’m like, heck yeah! You know?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, I would never have had those doubts for you, but the self-doubt becomes so overwhelming. I mean, like on the eve of this book release ____ the amount of stress, I don’t think I’ve slept more than a couple of hours last night, just out of pure stress and anxiety. It’s like, oh no! Now people are going to have this book. And that’s stressful, you know what I mean? Like, is this work going to be good enough for people. Are they going to think it’s helpful, or useful, or worth their hard earned money, you know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And that’s, you know, it’s not a body image thing, but it certainly is a self-doubt thing and I think it’s all kind of tied together.
Liz Wolfe: And I don’t want to ignore that. I don’t want to ignore the reality of self doubt, and just be like boom! I’m over it. Because we all do struggle, and I think acknowledging that is really important. But I just don’t want people to come out on the other side of self-doubt into a space that makes apologies for something that they previously weren’t okay with. You know what I’m saying? I don’t want people to be like, well I’ve come to terms, and now I love myself. Even though in the back of their mind, they are still thinking, gosh. I wasn’t good enough. Or gosh, I don’t look good enough.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, do you think, I don’t know, I don’t know what I think about this, just kind of topics that are swirling, along with the rainbow string of ideas that come out of my head {laughs} 24/7. But I’m wondering if you think that somewhat having our attention diverted, and I don’t mean that in a bad way, like we’re not aware of our bodies and able to love them. But I mean, literally just getting the heck out of our own way and stopping just looking at our bodies so darn much.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: For some level of self worth, as you were saying, like whether we need a hobby, whether we need to put some kind of work out there that is more valuable to us in terms of how we feel good about ourselves, then how we look. Something else that we; like, I know, I listen to Robb Wolf’s podcast a lot and he’ll talk to people about, you know, don’t focus on the number on the scale, why don’t you make a fitness goal for myself. So like, I even said this to someone recently. I am not in any way…let me reword that. I’m completely grateful for the fact that the word I have put out has achieved what it has out there, you know, Practical Paleo being on the New York Times list for a billion weeks, whatever, the fact that it is helping so many people and I think, you know, they are helping themselves. That is, to me, amazing. I do not personally feel like I am better than someone else because of that. I want to snatch more weight at the gym. Like, that’s what makes me feel good about myself. I have different things that I have that self value for. Or, you know, I talked about this on another recent show. I want to employ more people working with me to help other people with their health, and when I can employ somebody and pay them to do this thing they are passionate about alongside me, like that makes me feel really good. And the more things like that I have in my life, the less and less I focus on my body as something I need to feel good about to feel okay, if that makes sense.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, the more chickens I have, the less I…
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Cause they are not looking at you like, man those skinny jeans look tight, girlfriend!
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Dang! Uh, yeah, totally. I totally get that. I think the fuller one makes one’s life. I don’t know, yeah, I like that point. I think that’s great.
6. Unattainable levels of “beauty and perfection” [44:37]
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, because I think it’s a little {sigh} it’s a little bit of a, you know, I don’t know if it’s just… it’s not just a wisdom that comes with age, again, because I know there are women of all ages, men of all ages who struggle with these issues. But I do think there are a lot more women who are older who say, you know, you just become more of yourself. I’m pretty sure Oprah said something like this, because I was a devotee {laughs} back in the day.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: But I mean, I used to literally watch Oprah every day. Loved it. But she said some really great stuff, and in hindsight, I’m like, maybe, maybe she’s the one that got me motivated to just be how I am. I have no idea. But, you know, becoming more of yourself sort of with every decade that you live, and you know, shutting up the noise, whether it’s coming from within you, as you had said, or if it’s coming from anyone else, being able to like, just stop and be like, eh. That’s not what’s important. That’s not what’s going to affect me. I don’t know.
Liz Wolfe: I think we probably watched Oprah work through a lot of these things.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Because for a very long time, she was probably making big proclamations, as we have done today, and then she would go right over there to do the next fad diet, and you know, make a big deal out of changing her body in some way. I think eventually she kind of stopped doing that, which, maybe she’s gotten to a place where she feels that way, I don’t know. it could be interesting. Because we watched her for many years.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah
Liz Wolfe: Let’s be honest, kind of abuse herself for the sake of her physical body.
Diane Sanfilippo: I just remember the more recent years where she had the thyroid issue, and I didn’t know what that meant at the time, and now I know that her exhaustion and running herself ragged would lead to that, but you know, anyway. It was just something that kind of crossed my mind related, but maybe not. Well, here’s the other thing I want to talk about, I just had a bunch of other random sort of notes here. I think more stuff we’ve seen around the internet, not necessarily just in our little corner of the paleo-sphere is a lot of these sort of Photoshop before and afters.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Of Hollywood celebrities, and again women, especially, who here’s the photo as it was taken, and now here it is as you saw it in, you know, Entertainment Weekly or People magazine or whatever it is. And, this unattainable level of “beauty and perfection” and
Liz Wolfe: Quote unquote, can we put that in quotes.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And “good enough”, you know, that’s put out there, it’s not just unattainable because people don’t have the money to have a trainer, or whatever it might be. Its literally unattainable because it’s not real. Like, it’s so fake that we’re completely misled about what is real. I mean, I think that is a huge issue surrounding this stuff. You know, we grow up with some picture of what we should look like even, I’m sure, Teen Magazine and, you know, Women’s Health and whatever else, and we aren’t aware at that point that those things are unattainable even to the women in the picture.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. That doesn’t exist. But, let’s not let that make us feel better, because I can’t be that perfect because that perfect doesn’t exist. Let’s just redefine our notion of what perfection even is. You know?
Diane Sanfilippo: I just don’t know.
Liz Wolfe: I keep saying that, but.
Diane Sanfilippo: I know, and I’m just to like give this a little bit of, you know, additional grounding and context for people so like more of the why are we even so caught up in this.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I mean?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And, you know, the media putting attention on people like Kim Kardashian, who is posting pictures of herself on Instagram that are like, really should be private. You know, I mean, that’s my opinion. This is our podcast, I’ll voice my opinion.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: But, I mean, there are some pictures that people post, and it’s fine, but it’s just one of those things where this stuff gets out there, and…I don’t know, I just think it sends people reeling, and we’re not going to be able to avoid the medial entirely.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Although, I suppose, moving to a farm helps.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. That’s what everybody should do, really.
Diane Sanfilippo: Okay. Close up shop. That’s what we’re doing.
Liz Wolfe: Yup.
Diane Sanfilippo: But, I know, it’s just kind of, I just wanted to bring that up.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, I don’t know. Do you have some more, uh, words of wisdom? Maybe we can kind of roll things out here with {laughs} with a foam roller. Giant happy rainbow foam roller.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
7. Shifting our perceptions [49:28]
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I mean, can we talk about maybe some tactics and some, just kind of ways of shifting our perception and our ways of thinking about ourselves for, you know, all the women listening, all the men listening who maybe have been dealing with a lot of this stuff because of, you know, some sort of weird expectations that are out there, whether its from themselves internally or externally or whatever is going on, I mean, what do you want to tell people.
Liz Wolfe: So, the way I think this works, and the way I would go about doing this. And I’ll be interested to hear kind of what your ideas for a strategy would be. I don’t think this is something you can….I think it has to be a choice. I think that just one day, you have to say, I’m going to reverse any of these thoughts that creep into my mind, like, gosh, I don’t look like this, or gosh I woke up and I feel chunky or whatever. Whatever those feelings are, I think you just have to choose to be vigilant about that, and just put the…just snuff them out. One by one. And just choose to give yourself freedom from any kind of self doubt, lack of self acceptance, or you know, feeling inadequate. All of those feelings, just gift yourself the freedom from them for one day. They can come back tomorrow, you know, you want to reactivate them at some point in your life; no worries. I’m sure it won’t be difficult. But really, I think the only way to like, make some really purposeful strides with this. And, I’m not an expert. There actually are experts out there in this type of thing. And if there are any listening, please feel free to write in with some ideas if you like. This is just me personally just opening that door of freedom from those feelings and walking through it. The air is really, really nice across that threshold. So, I don’t even know if that makes sense. Diane, maybe you can kind of make some sense out of my words, but I just think its one of those things you have to choose.
Diane Sanfilippo: It does make sense, and I think it goes along the lines of the concept that like, that which you focus on grows.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And so, the more we focus on these sort of self-doubt negative feelings, negative body image, feelings and thoughts, the more you think about them and focus on them, the more you will be nurturing them and feeding them, and that is not what people want to be doing, and so we need to stop; exactly what you said, stop doing it. You know.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: You just stop doing it. Its almost like; if eating a certain food doesn’t make you feel good, then stop doing it. But there is some reason why people walk that line, where they’re like, okay I’m not going to eat it for a week {laughs} and then I’m going to eat it again. You know? They’re going to be like, okay I can try that for a week, and then something happens and they kind of get themselves off track. I do think that perhaps it is something that needs to be consciously done for quite some time, and then it does become, you know, habit, and subconscious and part of who you are, but I think it does require that effort at first, perhaps.
Liz Wolfe: Speaking of Oprah, I just had a Dr. Phil quote pop into my head.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, great.
Liz Wolfe: He {laughs} if that ain’t a great guy to, you know, help us out.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh boy. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: He said, at some point, you have to behave your way into whatever it is you want to see in your life. Which I think is kind of what you are saying.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: I think one day you just have to tell yourself that you are the ultimate GI Jane badass of all time, and you walk through your life that day thinking that. That doesn’t mean you can’t be humble and sweet and whatever.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: It just means that you own your own amazing qualities and you shine the light on those for a day, and you just act like that, and just see how that feels. And again, I’m serious when I say turn on Kenny Loggins
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Put on Footloose, and dance naked in front of the mirror. Laughing at yourself, and you won’t be able to not laugh at yourself. My gosh, its just like, that’s the kind of joy that we all need to start the day with, I think.
Diane Sanfilippo: Uh, I’ll be going to iTunes when we’re done and downloading some…
Liz Wolfe: Yes. You can’t not feel good when you’re listening to Footloose.
Diane Sanfilippo: Kenny Loggins {laughing} Oh boy.
Liz Wolfe: No kidding. Everybody come over to Cave Girl Eats Facebook page and tell me what song you prefer to dance naked to. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not Kenny Loggins,
Liz Wolfe: Do not post pictures or videos.
Diane Sanfilippo: Or does not have to be exclusively a Kenny Loggins song?
Liz Wolfe: It does not. I’m open to suggestions.
Diane Sanfilippo: Okay.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. No photos or videos though.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Text only.
Diane Sanfilippo: Those will be deleted and banned immediately.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. Anything else we want to wrap this one up with.
Liz Wolfe: That’s all I got. Maybe somebody can write in, one of these… you know, I had a client once that was actually an expert in kind of emotional recovery, and she was fabulous. So if anybody out there has something to add to this conversation, I don’t think this is going to be the end of our self-concept talk, so you know, write it in and be part of this conversation, add it to the blog post at http://balancedbites.com/ or at http://cavegirleats.com/ because I do think…I want to shape these ideas, mold them a little bit further. I don’t know about you, Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I mean, I think you know, we just kind of came to the table with our raw, sort of main topics that have just been bubbling up and we felt like talking about, but I think… {laughs} please. We’ve always got more to say about thi