(Although my other thread pushed some hot buttons with a few people, many others appreciated it. So I decided to give you Part 2, which deals with making money off of debt collectors. If I was posting this is some religious or school teacher forum, I would expect to get a lot of backlash. Being this is BHW and we’re all here to make money (regardless of what you deem is immoral), I would appreciate a certain level of respect for sharing my experiences and what I know. Part 2 gets more intense so those of you who can’t handle reading my past “immoral” behavior better just exit this thread now!
Just like the other thread, you need to live in the U.S. for this to work but other countries may have similar debt collection laws if you live outside the U.S. Just like in the other thread, you’ll need to be knowledgeable, confident and assertive with how to implement this method. It’s not for everybody and I hope you can appreciate the dedication and creativity I put into it.)
This method involves using the FDCPA (Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 U.S.C.§ 1692) and trapping/catching debt collectors who call you and violate the law. This method will be more intense, crafty and will require some acting on your part (I’ll explain shortly).
How to Learn the Law:
Search the web for FDCPA and read some sites on how the FDCPA works in general. Here is a link to the actual law: http://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rules...tices-act-text Although the FDCPA (just like the TCPA) is a detailed law you’ll just need a basic understanding on how it works.
How to Get Collection Calls:
Well, to get collection calls you need to be in debt first. I would not advise someone to default on bills to simply get these calls to try this method. You should be in a position of already having debt and getting (or about to get) these types of calls due to not making payment.
What Qualifies as a Collection Call:
Simply put, the debt will need to be collected by a third-party (i.e., collection agency or attorney). If you owe a bill to Sears and they call you directly, you have no private right of action. Most debts get sent off to third-party agencies though.
What Kind of Document You Need:
It’s the same protocol as the first thread.
How Much Can You Settle Cases For:
Anywhere from $500 to XX,XXX. Big difference, I know. I can tell you some of my cases were settled for tens of thousands of dollars and others just for $500. However, most cases will settle for a couple thousand and others may be more nuisance value and settle for $500 or $750.
The settlement figure will depend on both how you “sell” your case to the other side during settlement talks and will also depend on how well your acting/role playing ability is during the collection call itself.
So Let’s Get Started:
(IMMORAL ALERT)
THINGS ARE ABOUT TO GET CRAZY. IF YOU CAN’T HANDLE IT, CLOSE THIS THREAD NOW!
The Recycling Process:
Let’s start with what I call “the recycling process.” It’s something you will want to consider if thinking about this method long-term. When I did this method I had about ten credit cards in delinquency and two bank loans past due. You would think I had roughly 12 (one lawsuit for each card and loan) FDCPA cases, right? Well, the truth is I had over 75 cases against collection agencies from these 12 delinquent accounts.
How is this feasible? When the creditor sends a “portfolio” to an agency, the agency collects for about six months. Depending on the success of the agency, the portfolio will either stay at the agency for collection or be sent back to the creditor. Once back with the creditor, the creditor can send it off to another agency. This process can be repeated approximately four to five times, depending on the creditor.
As I received phone calls from these agencies in violation of the FDCPA, I sued them. Once they received the complaint and knew I meant business, they wanted nothing to do with my account as the lawsuit could only bring more exposure to them. Not only did I settle the lawsuits with these companies, they immediately sent the portfolio back to the creditor without stating the truth as to why. Reason for this is that they wanted to keep a positive business relationship with the creditor and didn’t want to divulge that they were involved in a FDCPA lawsuit.
I had my accounts moving fast, without the creditors having any clue. I was able to sue an agency, have the account recycle back to the creditor, and hear from a different collection agency within a few weeks’ time. I had every opportunity to either pay the debt off or have it zeroed out as part of a settlement. However, this would defeat the purpose for what I wanted to accomplish. On any particular debt, I can assume that at least four different agencies would handle the portfolio. This, in turn, allows me to have at least four lawsuits from these various agencies. I was frequently offered a chance to have the debt erased, but I knew it was more profitable to have debt. This sounds absurd, but I actually wanted debt—the more, the better, as I knew my debt was my equity.
A debt collector will look for a debtor’s weakness and exploit it. They oftentimes look for an edge to gain over the debtor and use leverage against them to pay. A debt collector doesn’t care about the debtor or the debtor’s credit; they care about making a commission by all means necessary. The debt collectors I dealt with tried to use everything against me. They tried to play me like a fool. Well, they were the ones who got played like the fool while I got paid. I’ve gotten a lot of debt collectors fired, and they deserved it. They thought they had the upper hand, they thought that their commission was only one more threat away. They were most certainly oblivious to the fact that I knew my rights, the law, and they had no clue what an error they were about to make.
How to Trap them into Violating the Law:
Legal Threats-
My first and most often used method began by asking questions pertaining to a potential lawsuit against me. Once I received a phone call from a collector, I would role play. I would be the debtor who is scared out of his mind of getting sued and had no idea of what a lawsuit entailed. In reality, I was thoroughly knowledgeable with the judicial process and knew what actions could really be taken and what a mere empty threat was. As the collector made statements such as, “further collection activity will be taken” or “we may pursue other avenues in collecting the debt,” I responded with, “What do you mean collection activity?” or “If I’m going to be sued, then I will pay right away.” I even had the collector explain to me how a lawsuit worked and the possible outcomes involved. Just as I expected, the collector would talk about possible litigation, judgments, liens, garnishments, and lawsuits. I always put it back on the collector to have an internal dialogue and thinking, “He sounds afraid and concerned with a lawsuit, maybe I should threaten him a little. He said he would pay to avoid getting sued. That must be his weakness.”
Not only did I ask open-ended questions, I made the impression that I was genuinely concerned by changing the tone of my voice to a softer, slower, disappointed, and distraught debtor in conjunction with changing my breathing pattern to accompany the tone and pace of my voice. I frequently let off bellowing sighs after being threatened by a collector to portray my distraught, concerned, and conquered image. On occasion, I sobbed as the collector thought I was completely vulnerable and an easy target for such threats and abuse. This moved the collector into thinking he had the upper hand. Then the collector would go in for the kill, so to speak.
The collector had to believe I was emotionally unstable due to the unexpected blow of a potential lawsuit. Once the collector felt a threatening statement would push me into paying the debt out of fear of such a suit, the collector began to use immense verbal force and deliver a final round of false threats. Often the collector threatened me, regardless of whether I seemed weak or not. My strategy empowered me to use the collectors’ tactics against them. As they were looking for my weaknesses and vulnerabilities, I was looking for theirs. I played off of theirs as they played off of mine, only I benefited from it via lawsuit and they got fired for violating the law. I never used this method until the collector made subtle hints and/or suggestions of a lawsuit. I can’t be worried about something that was never threatened against me. In a sense, the collector fishes for opportunities to exploit the debtor. They hang a couple hints and or remarks of a lawsuit over the debtor’s head, waiting for a reaction—more specifically, a scared reaction. Once the debtor shows fear, the collector finds the debtor’s weakness and attacks it.
Offering a Small Payment-
The next method is the offering of a small payment. Sounds strange, I know. I learned of this idea when I was trying to pay the collectors a small amount, and they became annoyed, abusive, and, quite frankly, pissed off. This, in turn, caused them to violate many provisions of the FDCPA, not to mention, caused them to get fired. The principle is sound. Since collectors make a commission on how much money the debtor pays, the best laid plan for me was to offer a couple bucks. My credit card debt was over $25,000, and I had as much as $8,000 on one card. When the collector offered a payment plan of either paying it all off, paying 50 percent, or even 25 percent, I offered $10 or $15, which was a fraction of a percent of what I owed. The irony here is that I offered something, yet they rejected it. They were the collector and they didn’t want to collect, why? The reason is simple—no commission.
Not only did I offer a fraction of a percent, I offered it after a good portion of time had elapsed in our conversation. This was done because the collector would make a concerted effort in trying to get a commission, and by me not dismissing his payment options immediately, I allowed him to believe I was seriously thinking about submitting a good size payment to his agency. As a rule of thumb, the longer the collector can keep the debtor on the phone, the likelihood of payment increases. I knew the collector was aware of this and used his strategy against him.
As I expected, many collectors became abusive and angry. I was a waste of time in their eyes. They spent fifteen to twenty minutes giving every payment plan there was. All the while I knew what I was going to offer in the end. Some were in disbelief as such a small payment wouldn’t even cover the interest involved, and others were hell bent on exacting revenge against me. I took the abuse in stride because I was used to it from all my other cases. The offering of a small payment was an excellent ploy I used to get multiple violations.
Mini-Miranda Warning-
Another tactic I used to lure a violation dealt with what is known in the industry as the “mini-miranda warning.” When a debt collector calls the debtor, they must state that, “the debt collector is attempting to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose.” This informs the consumer about who is calling and the reasons they are calling. It has been a debatable issue whether the collector needs to state the warning every time when making a call to the debtor or only in the initial communication. I have always contested that each and every time the collector calls the debtor they must inform the debtor their reason for the call. As I stated in the other thread, the interpretation of the law gives the plaintiff a huge advantage either in settlement or judgment.
Moving on to how I lured the “mini-miranda” violation, if the collector called and failed to state the previously mentioned script, it was an automatic violation. However, it wasn’t always that easy. If I received a call and they informed me of everything they’re supposed to, and if I wanted that violation, I would do the following: I would inform the collector to call me back within an hour or so. They would usually call back and just say at the beginning, “Hi, it’s Mike again” or “It’s Mike again from XYZ Company, did you figure out your finances?” and forgot to mention the mini-miranda again. Some agencies kept thorough notes in their database to counteract this. They would input “debtor wanted a call back after one hour” or something to the liking. Regardless of whether it was the initial call or a subsequent call, if the collector failed to state the “mini-miranda warning” during any contact, they violated the law based upon my interpretation of the FDCPA.
Other Tricks-
The next few methods I used dealt with credit reporting, communicating my debt to a third party, and the ever famous, “It’s not very responsible of me” comment. In regards to credit reporting, the collection agency has the right to report all activity to the credit bureaus. However, the collection agency cannot misrepresent and mislead the debtor into thinking that negative information has been reported when, in fact, it never was. During the course of the conversation with a collector, I would ask in my soft, slow speaking and disappointed tone, “Are you guys on my credit right now?” The collector would usually say, “Yes,” and “Such reporting of derogatory information can be eliminated by payment.” What this comment implies is that the collection agency is on my credit report in lieu of the creditor. By asking, “Are you guys on my credit right now?” I’m referring to the collection agency and not the creditor. The collector says “Yes” to my question, so I pull my credit report to verify their statement. If my credit report only had the creditor listed and not the collection agency, the statements made to me by the collector were false and misleading because the agency was not listed anywhere on my credit report.
With respect to communicating my debt to a third party, it’s a pretty straightforward approach. A collector cannot contact third parties regarding my debt without first obtaining my permission. When I had a bully for a collector who was looking for my weaknesses, I told him to “Please don’t tell my roommate or don’t call my family.” I also stated that I would be “embarrassed” and “shamed” by my family if such information was to get out. The egregious collector then attacked this area, making statements such as, “What is your parents’ phone number?” and “When can I reach your roommate regarding this matter?” All of this conduct is in violation of the FDCPA.
The last technique I used when the collector suggested I borrow money from family or friends to pay off the debt. I then used my famous, “It’s not very responsible of me to go ask family to help me out” comment. I made this statement because of the irony involved in the situation. I let my credit go, failed to make payments on all credit cards and loans, accrued over $25,000 in debt, and the collector wondered how I could have the audacity to make a statement regarding responsibility when I have been irresponsible for years. The collector would be irate that I wouldn’t go seek financial help because I now wanted to be responsible.
The collectors broke the law using multiple “fear impact statements” against me because I acted vulnerable and portrayed myself to be susceptible to such conduct. They were only looking at the potential commission and not caring about staying calm and compliant within the FDCPA.
How the FDCPA Settlement Process Works:
Debt collection settlements are totally different from telemarketing ones because your case is based around punitive damages (if applicable) in addition to statutory damages. This is where role playing and getting a collector to “really let you have it” pays off. Think about it, if the case goes to court in front of a jury and they listen to the recording of the collector just teeing off on you and making repeated false statements, who do you think they would side with? This is why you would ask for punitive damages so the jury can “punish” the violating collection agency. I say this all hypothetically since most cases never even get to court…they settle. But what if? No collection wants that kind of exposure or judgment against them. They don’t settle with you based upon statutory damages, they do so because they’re scared shitless that punitive damages could be immensely high because there is no cap (up to a reasonable point of course). If the jury hates collectors and that type of conduct, they’re screwed, so they settle.
The FDCPA is different than the TCPA because you only can claim damages of up to $1,000 per call and defendant, irrespective of how many violations took place in that one call. So if you get a just a single violation that is technical in nature like the mini-miranda warning, you won’t have any success asking for punitive damages. But if you get a collector that threatens and harasses you then try to get the most abuse as you can during that call in order to maximize the punitive side of it. Such torts you could include are: invasion of privacy (intrusion upon seclusion), negligence, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and negligent infliction of emotional distress. All allow you to ask for punitive relief. If you get an abusive and harassing collector you can gain a massive amount of leverage to settle because you wouldn’t just ask for $1,000 for statutory damages, you would ask for a punitive figure, depending on how bad the collector’s conduct was.
So next time you get a debt collection call what are you going to do about it…nothing…or turn it into a money making opportunity?