Reserved Area
‘Joe Frazier ‘Champ’ a boxing legend remembered. Interview with nephew Rashad’
He had just returned to work that day from his travels sitting in the studio hunched down in the chair with his usual peaceful look open yet tired almost to exhaustion. Unassuming and friendly he asked me about my business and I started talking about my newsletter. After some talk and a welcome back from his General Manager, I asked about his absence since he did not seem refreshed but maybe a recovery of some sort. He had mentioned the changing neighborhood in Philly and so many Chinese restaurants. He explained the reason why he had traveled to Philly, his home town and the attendance of a funeral. The 'Homegoing' or Homecoming he emphasized since he had not recalled hearing the word funeral of his uncle Joe Frazier! He spoke about being close to his uncle, his mother's brother. I asked if he would be willing do an interview. I had just posted a comment about his loss on my Facebook page thanking Joe Frazier with an attached article from the New York Times. I wondered if his demeanor was the same as his Uncle's, after all Joe Frazier and his Mom were reared by the same Mother! Rashad may have been a reflection of the legacy Joe Frazier left unspoken: kind, respectful, understated, patient, a quiet curiosity, and gentle spirit. Even as Rashad spoke about his uncle's funeral being larger than that of Teddy Pendagrass, he told a humorous story about men with bags setting up near the crowded church selling t-shirts, which were beautiful and even purchased by his relatives! Rashad a proud Islamic name masked all awareness of his family's infamous uncle. After reading the above introduction to begin our interview, it started with the emphatic statement below.
Rashad: Let’s Go!
LT: After reading materials and recognizing that your uncle Joe Frazier is one of the greatest boxers of all time except he came along with a few other good ones that overshadowed his accomplishments. The beauty of Joe Frazier him being a product of what it means to reach your potential in this country…just being told by his father that he could be a Joe Louis…planted the seed for his greatness.
What was mostly written about Joe Frazier’s public professional life and challenges may have missed a personal side of him only his family could speak to, his true character. As I look at Rashad (so unassuming) I think I may see some of his characteristics, making his life beyond boxing so fascinating to explore.
LT: What could we learn about your uncle that we do not know?
Rashad: One of the things was he very, very determined and hard worker. He instilled that in his children and those who surrounded him in the family. I don’t know if I took it to heart, these characteristics of hard work, but I became pretty close to him when he gave me a job after high school since I did not go straight to college. ‘I did not want to go; I wanted to work.’
I worked with him for about a year and traveled. That was a pretty good experience for me. I was young, right out of high school, a teenager, so I got allot of tongue lashing from him for not doing things on time. It was like being a ball boy; I was a water boy instead in a sense. In boxing I needed to get all this equipment and stuff prepared for practice. Being new to this boxing game was something that I didn’t get right away. When things where not in place on time, I would get a lashing. Once I got into the groove, my uncle would tell me that I had gotten better with doing those things I needed to do. Learning to get this thing or to get that thing, how to tape his hand, get this equipment and that equipment, after awhile I became pretty good at the routine.
LT: That was great coaching!
Rashad: ‘Many asked why I did not become a boxer…well, I didn’t want that lifestyle.’ There is a piece of equipment called the speed bag, don’t know if you have ever seen it where boxers roll their hands between. I guess my hand and eye coordination was not good enough. As a result, I never wanted to be a boxer, never got into the ring. , friends of mine, who knew I was Joe Frazier’s nephew, got into boxing including my brother and some of my cousins, but I never did. I was a basketball and football player. That’s what I did.
Rashad getting Dad’s advice
Traveling with him was a good experience. NYC was not far from Philadelphia, where there were allot of professional athletes and part of the business and advertising world. I sat in on commercial shootings of my uncle (for promotions) and got a chance to see how they were cut. I also saw allot of people, the hanger’s on, gold diggers both men and women. I think that was revealing. I was mostly an observer. I was still very young and was getting paid (not a whole lot of money). My father objected (to working with my uncle long term). He was a union man ( who loved the union) and said it was ok for me to work for my uncle and to just know that while I may have been into the good times he (Joe Frazier), was not getting benefits (life and health insurance) like the union provided.
LT: It was fantastic that you were so close to your uncle.
Rashad on being the favorite nephew:
Reserved Area
Yes and I came to find out later on the truth after my uncle would say ‘you are my favorite nephew’ which I believed until I heard him tell everybody they were his favorites too! I guess he was just showing fairness by having no favorites. Then there were serious (times)… in fact, when I was looking to go to college, opportunity came through him (my uncle). While I was applying to A&T, Morgan State, Cheney State around the Philadelphia area, two representatives from St. Augustine College (Vice President and another gentleman) came to Philadelphia, to convince my uncle to come visit the campus. They ended up talking to me during that visit. They sent me an application which I filled out and was accepted! It happed through my uncle and ‘I am really thankful for that’. Later several years later I transferred to Shaw University as a mass communications major.
Rashad on becoming Muslim and Uncle’s reaction:
I became Muslim. It occurred during the time and when attention was being given to both him (Joe Frazier) and Ali. When my uncle found out, ‘he blew his top’.
LT: Why did you become Muslim, you knew he was struggling with the Ali thing?
Rashad: I became Muslim, because ‘there was something that came upon my heart that I believed’. It had nothing to do with Muhammad Ali or anything. I went into it through the Nation of Islam but at that time, I later learned it wasn’t the whole practice of Islam. At 18 or 19 as part of the Muslim organization, the word spread like wildfire to my relatives, friends, and throughout the neighborhood resulting in a comment like ‘he has gone crazy’. I had a cousin named Alexander from Brooklyn, who went to Lincoln University. One day when visiting, we went by my uncle’s gymnasium; I didn’t join him that time instead choosing to wait outside. He later told me what my uncle had said. ‘It was quick how things turned around’. He said, my uncle said, “you are still my nephew and I still love you”. There were things going on during those turbulent times between him and Muhammad Ali. But as I remember working with my uncle around that time in Philadelphia, Ali was living, I believe, in Cherry Hill, across the river in New Jersey. I remember being in my uncle’s office when he was talking to Muhammad Ali on the telephone, speaking like ‘friends talk on the telephone’, about how could then get this second fight together. I remember them joking around. It was a very friendly conversation. “There was more between them, than I guess the public knew.”
LT: Wonder what Joe Frazier said when he got off the phone?
Rashad on Frazier and Ali talking business:
He said, ‘that was Clay’ on the telephone. I was just all ears, being noisy. There were other people in the office, so I did not ask questions. But from the conversation, I suppose they were talking about how to get a second fight together.
LT: Joe Frazier was the winner of their first fight and was very gracious to agree to a 50-50 split on the fight yielding Ali $2.5 million according to articles. I guess he was feeling good about the relationship at that point. Was there a time that he wasn’t feeling good about that relationship?
Rashad on relationship with Ali going sour:
I recall it was before the last fight. Things went sour after the ‘Thrilla in a Manila’. When Ali called him bad names (like gorilla) and other things said knowing that he (Joe Frazier) had helped him (Ali) out. Did you see the HBO Special called the ‘Thrilla in Manila’? That would give you a real good view of another side of Mohammad Ali, whereby his character may have been called into question…his persona. Of course what he did for Civil Rights was good, but there was another side that changed allot of people’s mind about him, like Dr. Michael Dyson and some others who saw this documentary. They commented ‘wait a minute’, Joe Frazier was just as ‘Black’ as Mohammed Ali. He was as much for the cause. I suggest you look at that documentary.
LT: I think your uncle was shocked that Muhammad Ali had shifted. He (Joe Frazier) understood the drama, but Ali shifted to degrading Joe Frazier racially, while making himself (Ali), I guess, the Messiah of the race describing Joe Frazier as someone representing the status quo, or whatever.
Rashad on meeting Khalilah Ali:
Yes, yes, but you know, through all those years my family had met Ali. For me it was always like he just left. Once I was visiting and would go by my uncle’s gym and they would say, ‘Muhammad Ali just left’. So I never really got a chance to meet him. But I did have a chance to see him and meet his (second) wife, Khalilah Ali, at my uncle’s funeral. In talking with her I found out she had known my sister for quite awhile since traveled to Manila to babysit my uncle’s children. My sister told me she had a chance to meet Khalilah Ali and they hung out. Mrs. Ali had remembered my sister from all those years including the time she went to Zaire when Ali was fighting George Foreman. When I introduced myself, I told her (Khalilah Ali) that I was the Muslim in the family no one talked about. She laughed. It was real nice meeting her.
Reserved Area
Rashad on the last time I saw his uncle:
I don’t know if you are going to ask me but the last time I saw him alive was at my aunt’s funeral in South Carolina. Whenever I would talk with him, I would call him ‘Champ’. When you become a champion, everyone refers to you that way as the ‘Champ’ He would always give me the Islamic greeting ‘As-Salamu Alaykum’ (Peace be with you). When I saw him, he was not looking that good.
LT When was that?
Rashad:
It was two years ago. He had back surgery. Come to find out it may have been misdiagnosed. This is documented that his illness may have been misdiagnosed.
Rashad on being related to Joe Frazier twice through relatives:
In fact, Joe Frazier was related to me twice. Joe’s wife was my father’s neice. Joe Frazier wife’s mother and my father were brothers and sisters. (They are no longer together.) ‘So that was his niece he married, and of course my mother is Joe’s sister so we are related twice.’ His children along with my siblings (we) always looked at ourselves almost like brothers and sisters. Yeah…
LT: I will have to rerun that. It was real complicated!
Rashad:
Yeah (ha, ha)…right. I remember the first time, when they first fought, (Joe with Ali), we were listening to it on the radio with my brother and sisters because my mother and father had gone to New York City to see the fight. When announcers were giving the details on the final victory the decision was made that my uncle, Joe Frazier had won the fight. We turned to another station which played Quincy Jones’ song ‘Killer Joe”. I grew fond of that song.
LT: I love that song. I think Valerie Simpson may have song it; she was with him (Quincy) at that time.
Rashad on meeting celebrity friends and important people around Joe Frazier:
Oh yeah, during that time I got a chance to meet some celebrities. He was good friends with Elizabeth Taylor’s husband, Richard Burton. I met Joey Bishop. I got a chance to meet politicians, again I was young and thought, ’who were these people’? When I reflect back I realize ‘wow’ I met those people!
LT: Recall anyone else?
Rashad on meeting Howard Cosell:
I met some local celebrities from Philadelphia. I remember going to a charitable event and met some football players from the NY Jets, I could not remember their names. I was just amazed. I was not a big guy, but they did not look that big, though larger than life on TV, yet only just a little bigger than me! I did meet Howard Cosell in the elevator, during the same event, where we ended up all together momentarily. I guess, since he was not in front of the camera, he was subdued and a nice guy.
Rashad on rides with Joe Frazier when young in South Carolina:
When I was much younger I visited South Carolina. My uncle who was the youngest child, my mother was the eldest, would take me for a drive. I remember the moss hanging from the trees being especially frightening at night when driving on those two road ways.
LT: Did your uncle act fearless at that time? How was that expressed from what you could remember?
Rashad:
He would have me ride in his lap while driving. He would take all of us (my cousins) one at a time to let us ride in his lap to experience driving the car. It was allot of fun. All in all, we knew he was a boxer and just looked at him as our uncle and our relative. My uncle was a real good and gracious man and always kind to me. If I did something wrong, he would take care of it or tell my Mother or my Father. “He had three choices and none of them were good (for me, ha, ha).”
LT: Some kids used to hang out with him growing up because he had a build that would run off bullies. In some ways he must have felt like a protector.
Rashad on Joe Frazier his fans and being patient:
Reserved Area
Yep! When I was working or not working with him, people would ask for an autograph, he was real nice to people, signed autographs, stopped and talk to people. I was impatient and ready to go. I always had to make sure he was on time, but he would stop and talk, I waited too, because I did not want him yelling at me!
He had a Cadillac. When I had just gotten my driver’s license, he visited our house and wanted me to park his Cadillac then drive him to his office. I tried to park it but hit a car behind me. When I pulled away the fender came off. Then I thought, ‘I was going to get killed’. The insurance company took care of it. My uncle said when you park a car, don’t let something like that happen again, and it didn’t because I never got to drive his car again!
LT: That’s funny. I used to be a very good parker.
Rashad:
Well I had driven my father’s car before, that Cadillac was so big, I was trying to get it into the spot, but apparently the parking space was too small, so that’s what happened.
LT: Where there family gatherings?
Rashad:
Yes. Family reunions and weddings, I would see him there. Wherever there was a family event, he was there. He was a family guy and he always came by to see my mother, his sister. There was another thing. I don’t know what it is with me. It would always be that someone important had just left (when I arrived). I’m surprised to be talking with you on the phone, I rarely do; however, I would talk to him (my uncle) on the phone. I asked how he was doing; he’d asked why was I in town. I would tell him ‘to see my Mother and if I do not have the chance to see you, to take care Champ’. Regardless of how distant the relatives were, whenever he was invited, he would come. Although, he did not come to my wedding here in North Carolina in and I don’t know why. His wife and my cousins did come when I got married here in Raleigh in 1977.
LT: Did he send you a gift? Talk to you about it?
Rashad:
Later on he met my wife and children. In fact, (as I understand it) they are planning on doing a movie about his life.
LT: You say he was generous. What about your Grandmother?
Rashad:
She was a wonderful woman….92 when she passed away about six years ago. She was a God conscious woman. She was outspoken like allot of African-American women. Her parents came out of slavery. She was a very ‘very’ nice woman, a hard worker, she was a nice, gracious lady and the first that I had seen smoke a pipe.
LT: What kind of pipe did your grandmother have?
Rashad:
I remember it was a short pipe, it looked like hardwood she would put tobacco in there and light it and I would say “wow”. In later years, she became recognizable from a distance by her pipe and cane.
LT: Did she stay in Beauford, South Carolina?
Rashad:
Yes, she stayed in Beauford, South Carolina.
LT: Your uncle was told by his father that he had to leave when he was very young because he was always be ready to fight, according to one of the articles about him.
Rashad:
Did you know they have recognized him with a one of their favorite sons awards in South Carolina?
LT: Did he go down to get it? He was invited and he attended?
Rashad:
Yes, Yes.
LT: I am really curious about the gym he managed. Tell me about the Gymnasium.
Reserved Area
Rashad:
It is a furniture store now. I think they are going to make it a historical landmark in Philadelphia. There is controversial stature about a mystical figure of ‘Rocky’ and not one for Joe Frazier. So the mayor of Philadelphia and former Governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell, also formerly the mayor was at my uncle’s funeral, said they were going to have a statue made of Joe Frazier. Of course Jesse Jackson was there and said there would be a statue to commemorate my uncle for what he had done for the city of Philadelphia. ‘They are apparently working on that; it came out of their mouths.’
My home was about six blocks from the gymnasium. I would walk there; my uncle had his office and apartment there as well. It was very nice, but I don’t know what happened. He lost that property, I don’t know… Hopefully they will make it a historical landmark.
LT: I think I may look that up and see how that is going. I am interested in historical landmarks in African American communities. It would be good to know more about the building itself.
Rashad:
It was something else before it became a gymnasium. It was refurbished to make it into a gymnasium. It was a good gym for people who wanted to get into boxing; they would go there and train. The facility was a training ground for young boxers professional as well as amateurs. It was useful in developing boxers out of that building.
LT: So what did the inside look like?
Rashad:
It had a boxing ring, office, locker rooms, punching bags around the walls all that.
LT: It was a little economic engine?
Rashad:
Yes, he hired trainers, including maintenance people.
LT: Who did you strike a relationship with that was on your uncle’s staff?
Rashad:
My uncle’s chauffer was Lee Grant. I had a good relationship with him. He was very ‘very’ funny guy, always cracking jokes. He also had a security guard, a former police officer. On one hand the driver would tell jokes and the other, the security/body guard, would be serious.
LT: Anything else?
Rashad:
I was surprise that at his funeral, he got a real good send off. Muhammad Ali was there, the minister for Whitney Houston’s funeral was there and sang, and of course Jesse Jackson. They had video tributes from Mike Tyson, the actor Mickey Roarke (apparently a good friend of my uncle) and believe it or not Donald Trump. In attendance were allot of boxers from PHILLY, which was known as the capital for boxers. There were many family and friends, so he had a good send off.
LT: What would the one word or so you would want the nation to know about your uncle Joe Frazier?
Rashad:
Determination….he was very determined.
LT: Thank you Rashad Abdul-Muhamin you would make your uncle the ‘Champ’ proud.
Written by Lillian Thompson for Trends Navigator newsletter © Trends Management Consulting, Inc. Photo by James R. Mitchell, Jr. of Brooklyn, New York.
What are you thinking? ®
Comment on Article
|
Create a New Article