Photo by Chip Tamplin
Today I had the chance to speak to one of my favorite rock guitarists of all time, Soundgarden’s Kim Thayil. Thayil was preparing for Soundgarden’s show tonight in New York ahead of the release of the Superunknown reissue, which is coming out tomorrow to mark the album’s 20th anniversary. Despite the ‘Frowngarden’ label that people have joked about over the years, Thayil actually has a very dry and biting sense of humor that definitely comes across in this interview.
We discussed Soundgarden’s recent studio session with Jack Endino, the band possibly getting into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, the Lollapalooza tours, Matt Chamberlain filling in for Matt Cameron live, shooting the “Black Hole Sun” and “Burden In My Hand” music videos, if a tour playing a classic album front to back like Badmotorfinger could happen, recording Superunknown with producer Michael Beinhorn, and much more. I also asked Thayil for the ‘salacious’ details (he’s onto us!) behind his interactions with Billy Corgan and Stone Temple Pilots over the years, and about his memories of recording with Johnny Cash in the 90′s. Below is the full Q&A.
Kim, it’s an honor to be talking to you today, Soundgarden’s one of my favorite bands, so it’s just a thrill.
Oh, thanks.
First off I’ve got to dive into the B-sides box set, I saw you talking about it earlier today in an interview. But I’m curious what you think could end up on it, and if any pre Screaming Life material could make it onto it?
Any pre Screaming Life material? I don’t think so. Well, if it was something it might be from Deep Six. We were on the C/Z records cassette Pyrrhic Victory, we had “Incessant Mace” on that, but we released that on Ultramega OK. So some of the pre Screaming Life stuff, there’s maybe two dozen songs that were never released. Songs that we liked well enough to record and play live all the time, but we never released in any form. I don’t think those would be included on a B-sides thing. We could re-record them, or take the crude early recordings and have that stand alone as a release on its own.
What about that unfinished 1990 demo you mentioned working on [in a recent Billboard interview]? Is that post Louder Than Love, pre Badmotorfinger? You said that was one thing you’d been working on recently, could that end up on it?
A demo of an album, or a song?
I read earlier than you said you had gone in recently and worked on a 1990 song. I could have misread it, but it piqued my interest.
How recently was it, what time period was that referencing, recent?
Yeah, it said you guys had gone in recently and worked on it. I could have misread it, I read it on Billboard earlier.
There’s a song that recently we were doing with Jack Endino, we recorded it a few weeks or a month ago. That was from the mid 80′s, we actually recorded that potentially to use it in some form, maybe a soundtrack or something. We recorded it just to see how it would turn out, we haven’t really confirmed how it’ll be used, but it’ll probably end up on a compilation of some sort, and I’d imagine that would then be included on a B-sides album.
Great. Matt Cameron is playing with you guys tonight, but Matt Chamberlain is the touring drummer for most of the shows this year, as Matt Cameron will be touring with Pearl Jam soon. How did you guys come to the decision to tour without Matt Cameron, and how has Matt Chamberlain been fitting in with some of the shows he has played so far?
First of all, Matt Chamberlain is great. He’s a fantastic person, he’s very friendly. He’s easy to get along with, he’s a great drummer. We came to that decision with some difficulty, I was less inclined to want to tour without Matt Cameron. But when Matt advanced the fact that he was going to be busy with Pearl Jam, that perhaps we could get a substitute or a chance to [have a] fill in if we had these opportunities. We had a couple great opportunities to do some shows with Black Sabbath, and then do this tour with Nine Inch Nails. We though okay, let’s take these tours and let’s consider finding someone to substitute. There have been a lot of great session guys, and a couple fantastic sessions drummers that also happen to be friends of ours, people like Matt Chamberlain and other folks. I don’t need to name the other guys.
Now getting onto Superunknown, what are your memories of working with [producer] Michael Beinhorn on Superunknown? I was reading an article earlier that says he tried to make the studio seem like your living room since you liked practicing on your couch.
No no, that was just a humorous incident that occurred once in the studio I think. I turned up and they had moved a couch and some chairs into the big room, the performance room. They had put a little area rug in there, and a few standing lamps. I think it was all for fun, it was a great place to kind of sit, kick back and have a beer, just hold a guitar.
What was it like working with Michael on the album?
It was fine working with Michael, we ended up with with a really great record, and I think that’s a consequence of his pushing us. He really extracted some pretty good performances.
Something I don’t see people often ask you about is the Willie Nelson cover you did with Johnny Cash, Sean Kinney, Krist Novoselic, and John Carter Cash “Time of the Preacher,” which was recorded around the same time that Johnny covered “Rusty Cage.” What was it like recording with Johnny?
That was really amazing, he’s an amazingly charismatic person. He was kind, polite, and had this pretty [big] presence. A little bit intimidating. I initially wasn’t that nervous until I met him. I realized wow, he just had a certain presence that was just awesome. I regard that certainly as one of the highlights of my career, was the opportunity to play with Johnny, John Carter, and certainly of course Krist and Sean. That’s on the Twisted Willie compilation I believe.
Now talking about a couple of Soundgarden music videos: “Black Hole Sun” and “Burden In My Hand.” “Burden In My Hand” was actually my first exposure to the band when I saw that. What are your memories of shooting those two videos? Obviously “Black Hole Sun” is a pretty abstract video, and “Burden In My Hand” is very cinematic out in a desert.
We had to contribute very little for “Black Hole Sun.” We stood on a soundstage and basically looked distant and aloof (chuckles), and maybe a little bit bored. Everything else was green screened, and CGI animation with these other characters that they included in the video. So thankfully we had to do very little, because I learned how to play guitar so I can appear in a video pose, (laughs) I hope you understand that was a flippant response. For all the years I spent learning how to play guitar, the less time I have to spend posing for a video, the better it was. So that was a great video to make, for that reason.
“Burden In My Hand” was a little bit more demanding. We were out in some sand dune area, east of California for a couple days. The coolest thing about it was riding in a dune buggy to get to set location. But it was hot, it was dry. I remember drinking quarts of water and never peeing once, it was just evaporating.
(Laughs) Well it was a pretty timeless video, so it was worth the effort definitely.
There’s a few scenes that I’m not in because I left the set early because I had to head back home. You can do some detective work and figure out when that is (laughs).
This summer you’re touring with one of your contemporaries, Nine Inch Nails, this summer. Can you recall any interesting stories from touring with other bands back in the 90′s? Because I was researching before this interview, and there was funny stuff about you and Billy Corgan that came out in 1994.
That came out in a SPIN article, I don’t think that was a comment I made for the article, or that Billy made for the article. It was just a conversation that we had, an exchange, that the writer Jonathan Gold documented. That was a great tour, we were touring with the Ramones, the Breeders, and Smashing Pumpkins. There’s a lot of really cool socializing and exchanges going on, it was a lot of fun. We got to be pretty good friends with the Ramones, well, friendly acquaintances I would suppose. The Breeders were wonderful, hanging out with Kim and Kelley Deal. I don’t know, it was a lot of fun to meet people doing the same thing we’re doing. We did shows with Pearl Jam. Oh gosh, we did a few Lollapaloozas back then didn’t we? We did the first Lollapalooza in 1992 with the Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Ministry, and a whole bunch of other bands. That was a whole lot of fun. Then in 1996 it was our friends in the Screaming Trees, and our buddies the Ramones and Metallica. That was great too. It would take forever to mention specific instances, well for me to remember first of all (chuckles), and then to impart them.
There was one interesting one, if you don’t want to elaborate on it that’s cool, but it was from the infamous [2010] SPIN article. It was something about you and a member of Stone Temple Pilots, and something about him giving you a beer after you guys had a confrontation. Was that true, or is that another myth?
You know, people drinking and arguing, that happens all the time. It happens amongst best friends, it happens among comrades and peers. [That sounds] vaguely familiar, it’s just one of those funny things. Are you looking for something salacious?
No no no! I’m looking to see if any myths can be discounted, I was reading all of the major press you’ve done over the years to prepare.
There’s always funny exchanges, most of it doesn’t make it to the press. So much of it is inside, something said or done hanging out drinking (chuckles). At Lollapalooza there was weird stuff, there were [circus, Jim Rose Circus] side show freaks around that tour. There were a couple guys that liked to set people’s pan hams on fire (laughs).
We’ll have to wait for the [Lollapalooza] movie I guess to see it all.
I think one of them got cold-cocked by Al from Ministry for doing it. But you know, it’s all good. People are young and goofy, they take extravagant risks when they’re in a situation like that. (Sarcastically) Those are all euphemisms for describing people as clowns.
(Chuckles) I know, I understand. Speaking of Soundgarden’s history, you’re working on a documentary right now, which I thought was really interesting since it’s the 30th anniversary of the band this year, and the 20th anniversary of Superunknown. How has that documentary been going so far, is it a lot on the history of the band or is it touching on the present?
I haven’t seen any footage yet, but we have a general idea, an outline. We imagine it’ll be chronological, and maybe a bit autobiographical (chuckles). I don’t know, I haven’t seen anything yet, but I imagine it’ll be very good. The guys who I understand are working on it are fantastic, they make some great documentaries.
Recently Chris mentioned coming up with new song ideas, this is actually in the last week he just said he had been thinking of some new ideas. So have you been thinking of some new Soundgarden song ideas recently?
The songwriting process happens frequently. When you’re playing guitar you come up with ideas, you come up with a riff. So yeah, that’s always happening, but whether or not that’s going to be on an album is to be seen. All four of us have to enjoy the song and it has to be completed. Right now it’s ideas, but there’s always ideas.
Tonight you’re performing all of Superunknown in its entirety, but it hasn’t been confirmed if you’ll do it at every show this summer. I’ve seen that maybe on a special occasion it could happen. Would you guys ever consider doing a tour where you play Badmotorfinger, Superunknown, or Down on the Upside? Or even some of the earlier records like Ultramega OK or Louder Than Love?
I imagine we’ll do shows where we might perform Badmotorfinger maybe in the future, but I can’t imagine doing a whole tour where we did that. That would be really boring. We have to make it entertaining and interesting for ourselves, we like changing up the set day to day. That’s not likely to be any tours, but there may be other occasions where we’ll feature an album.
Or maybe a festival, like Pearl Jam did a few years ago that would be pretty cool.
Yeah, perhaps.
Last question has to do with your legacy. Nirvana got in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame recently, has that gotten you thinking about Soundgarden getting in the Hall of Fame in the next few years, and have you envisioned how that might go?
It’s not a particular objective or goal of mine, so I could take it or leave it. I imagine from what I’ve heard from friends, they say it’s really a lot of fun for fans, they say the fans get excited about it. The opportunity to meet and play with your peers, and maybe some heroes. That is probably the exciting thing about it, but seriously it’s kind of a strange accolade. It’s not like you have achieved something superior in performance like a baseball player, like the baseball Hall of Fame. [The Hall of Fame is kind of like] where you achieve commercial success, durable commercial success. Well that already is rewarded monetarily, and it’s rewarded with plaques or whatever. So you have a Hall of Fame for people who made a lot of money for other people? That’s what it ends up being, but people I know who have experienced this say the best part about it is working with other musicians, to be able to play with those musicians, and they regard the enthusiasm that the fans have for that experience. So, I think for that reason, you make a lot of people happy and you can have some new experiences, that would be a great thing for us to do. But I’m not going to lose sleep over it, because I think [of] our days [as] make music, make records, and play our songs.
Right, it’s fun to see your favorite bands go in. But obviously you can’t lose sleep over it, because I mean how long did it take Rush and KISS to get in?
And Deep Purple still hasn’t gotten in.
Yeah, so it’s fun when a band goes in but you can’t act like it’s the end all be all. Great bands are great bands no matter what, and Soundgarden, definitely one of my favorite bands. I went to the LA Forum show a few years ago. Randy Johnson was right in front of me, and Dave Grohl was right behind me. One of those shows you’ll never forget.
Ah! (Laughs) Randy was probably taking photos there.
Yeah he was, and Dave Grohl was moshing out right behind me and the Chili Peppers were there.
That was a fun show.